Did the rich white people on the Titanic say "well I'm rich and white so I'm not worried?"
WE ARE ON THE TITANIC PEOPLE!
Some should.be more worried than others. But we are all on a sinking ship!
Here's your cookie for having the good fortune of having rich white sons. Maybe it can be your life raft?
BUT YOU ARE STILL ON A SINKING SHIP!
The parade of "I'm concerned for the others" white people "but not concerned for my children" won't solve jack shit. Be worried for your kids. Be worried for mine. Unless everyone is operating from a place of personal vigilance we are never going to right this ship.
As a mom of two young Hispanic girls, who are first generation on their father's side, I get no comfort from hearing a bunch of moms of white sons saying how they aren't worried. BE WORRIED. I need you to stay worried. I'm terrified of an America that says "well this doesn't really affect me or mine."
Did the rich white people on the Titanic say "well I'm rich and white so I'm not worried?"
WE ARE ON THE TITANIC PEOPLE!
Some should.be more worried than others. But we are all on a sinking ship!
Here's your cookie for having the good fortune of having rich white sons. Maybe it can be your life raft?
BUT YOU ARE STILL ON A SINKING SHIP!
The parade of "I'm concerned for the others" white people "but not concerned for my children" won't solve jack shit. Be worried for your kids. Be worried for mine. Unless everyone is operating from a place of personal vigilance we are never going to right this ship.
As a mom of two young Hispanic girls, who are first generation on their father's side, I get no comfort from hearing a bunch of moms of white sons saying how they aren't worried. BE WORRIED. I need you to stay worried. I'm terrified of an America that says "well this doesn't really affect me or mine."
what's the point of everyone sitting around trying to outworry the other? I was already at maximum worry for my child and children that look like her well before the election. I may have lost a bit of hopefulness, but that's it. I think it's a bit strange to expect mothers of white male children to be worried for their immediate safety. That's just not how this thing works.
And please point me to this "new" America that suddenly finds itself unconcerned with the well-being of POC. That's the only America I've ever known. It's a generally fucked up and scary place if you really allow yourself to think about it.
Post by Queen Mamadala on Nov 22, 2016 1:20:49 GMT -5
We're very worried, and have been for a while. We've had many talks with the kids before and after the election. They've witnessed some of the aftermath at school. I'm a light-skinned biracial woman. My kids are white-passing. All of their close/best friends are children of color. Their concern for their friends and family is palpable. I'm concerned for every marginalized and oppressed group that will surely come under even more severe attacks under Trump's presidency. There's a lot I worry about.
I'm terrified for my family. I've been texting my mom and sister regularly to make sure they get home okay. My mom, a Black woman, lives in a very red and racist part of GA. I'm scared for my mom's side of the family.
My anxiety is also elevated with all the talks of massive changes to healthcare and social programs.
I fear more for what she'll see and experience rather than what will be directed at her since she's white. Her preschool is very diverse and I see the news stories about things happening in schools. She is very sensitive to kids being mean to each other or crying, so if anything happens to someone else it will bother her.
We've talked a lot recently about being kind and helpful to everyone, and what to do if you see/hear someone being mean. We're trying.
That doesn't take into account the HUGE fear I have for climate change, reproductive rights, and all that stuff.
I was on the fence about having kids, and this election has moved me firmly into no territory. After the election, H and I agreed that we don't want to bring a baby into this environment. In the past we've discussed fostering, so we may pursue that, but no bio-kids.
Seriously.
So I'm not sure how to read your tone, but I'll explain myself further. Like I said, I was already on the fence, this just pushed me over. The question asked how worried I am, and I answered.
It's not so much the fact that Trump is president, but that he won through a message of fear and hate. It's obvious that those sentiments have always been there, but now suddenly it's "OK" to engage and be vocal about it. We're regressing as a society, and it makes me very apprehensive for the future.
I'm extremely concerned about the environment. At this point I don't think we can come back from the damage we've caused, and it will only get worse. I don't want to add to that.
I can't say if I would feel differently if Hillary won. At this point I think that there are enough children already in the world who could use my help, and I'd rather focus my time and resources on them. I have no judgement for anyone else's decision, but this is mine and I hope it can be respected.
Did the rich white people on the Titanic say "well I'm rich and white so I'm not worried?"
WE ARE ON THE TITANIC PEOPLE!
Some should.be more worried than others. But we are all on a sinking ship!
Here's your cookie for having the good fortune of having rich white sons. Maybe it can be your life raft?
BUT YOU ARE STILL ON A SINKING SHIP!
The parade of "I'm concerned for the others" white people "but not concerned for my children" won't solve jack shit. Be worried for your kids. Be worried for mine. Unless everyone is operating from a place of personal vigilance we are never going to right this ship.
As a mom of two young Hispanic girls, who are first generation on their father's side, I get no comfort from hearing a bunch of moms of white sons saying how they aren't worried. BE WORRIED. I need you to stay worried. I'm terrified of an America that says "well this doesn't really affect me or mine."
I think there is a difference, though. I'm not concerned for my white daughter's immediate safety. I'm concerned for her education, the environment, and the world that she'll be growing up in, but that's very different from the more immediate concerns that parents of minority children or LGBT children are having.
I don't think it's meant as a humblebrag - we're all worried.
heyjude, I think it's pretty clear from months and months of discussion that everyone on this board is worried about a Trump presidency and what it could mean for our country's future and certain marginalized groups. But that is not what the OP asked. I am not worried that my children will be the victims of hate crimes, or that they will suffer directly from Trump's hateful agenda.
I was born in South Africa under the apartheid regime. Even though we were a white family and the government was set up in a way to explicitly benefit us, there were many negative consequences for white South Africans.
The government had to take away/ suppress civil liberties from all South Africans (including whites) in order to stay in power. (It was illegal to marry/ date outside your race and they had the right to listen in on your phone calls and read your mail.) The government controlled the media and could censor news stories they didn't like. (Trump is already trying to do this.) They also censored any comedy or theater that poked fun at the government, because humor is very effective tool to get people to question authority. (Trump has sent out two anti-SNL tweets.)
Probably the biggest negative impact on the average white South African family was that each white male was required to serve two years in the military. The government had created so many enemies both inside the country and in the neighboring African countries that they needed a big defense force.
Obviously US is not the same as South Africa but authoritarian regimes have some common characteristics and trump is showing signs of it. Obviously white South Africans did not suffer nearly as much (and benefitted from Apartheid) than black/ Indian/ multiracial South Africans but looking back, most white South Africans do not want to go back to living in fear of the government.
Myself and other friends who have spent time in places with authorianian strongmen have talked about how easily pwople from the favored group with give away their civil liberties in exchange for "protection" against the "threats" the strongman perceives. Even those of us who are white/straight/ not part of a minority should still worry about losing some of our freedoms under Trump and particularly the draft coming back if he starts military action.
heyjude , I think it's pretty clear from months and months of discussion that everyone on this board is worried about a Trump presidency and what it could mean for our country's future and certain marginalized groups. But that is not what the OP asked. I am not worried that my children will be the victims of hate crimes, or that they will suffer directly from Trump's hateful agenda.
Right.
I am very worried about what a Trump presidency will mean for our country, both legally and culturally. I am very worried for minorities or even just people who look non-white. I am worried about military actions, foreign policy decisions, environmental laws that will have a really negative impact.
But the question seemed to be more about how worried I was for my children. And really, I'm not that worried. Yes, it's privilege. I am slightly more worried for them because of the above paragraph than I was two weeks ago, and because of Trump's decisions/actions during the transition. But I am sure the worry I feel is nothing compared to what POC feel for their children, and it's not like this is a contest about who is the most freaked out.
I think because Jackson is older, it's hard for me not to worry about how this will impact him. He's 10 now and will be 14 in 2020. This is a tough age already, and a really tough age to be different. I guess I worry that our influence won't be enough over the next four years in what was always going to be an uphill battle, regardless of who was president. I can't discount the things people will be emboldened to do and say and how that will affect him, so in that sense, something has definitely changed and amplified my concern.
I'm pretty confident in who he is and our ability to continue to be the main influences in his life, but I know I'd be sleeping a lot easier if Hillary was in the White House because I think it's hard to know how much of an impact Trump is going to have on the national tone/conversation and kids growing up in an environment where he is the president. For young kids, it's easier to keep them insulated, and I do worry less about Scarlett in this respect. For older kids, that's a lot harder, obviously.
So I'm not sure how to read your tone, but I'll explain myself further. Like I said, I was already on the fence, this just pushed me over. The question asked how worried I am, and I answered.
It's not so much the fact that Trump is president, but that he won through a message of fear and hate. It's obvious that those sentiments have always been there, but now suddenly it's "OK" to engage and be vocal about it. We're regressing as a society, and it makes me very apprehensive for the future.
I'm extremely concerned about the environment. At this point I don't think we can come back from the damage we've caused, and it will only get worse. I don't want to add to that.
I can't say if I would feel differently if Hillary won. At this point I think that there are enough children already in the world who could use my help, and I'd rather focus my time and resources on them. I have no judgement for anyone else's decision, but this is mine and I hope it can be respected.
Procreate or don't, I don't care. But rolling up into a post about "hey, IF you HAVE children, are you scared for them?" and being all "I don't and never would bring new life into this toxic soup of shit" is ... tone deaf.
So I'm not sure how to read your tone, but I'll explain myself further. Like I said, I was already on the fence, this just pushed me over. The question asked how worried I am, and I answered.
It's not so much the fact that Trump is president, but that he won through a message of fear and hate. It's obvious that those sentiments have always been there, but now suddenly it's "OK" to engage and be vocal about it. We're regressing as a society, and it makes me very apprehensive for the future.
I'm extremely concerned about the environment. At this point I don't think we can come back from the damage we've caused, and it will only get worse. I don't want to add to that.
I can't say if I would feel differently if Hillary won. At this point I think that there are enough children already in the world who could use my help, and I'd rather focus my time and resources on them. I have no judgement for anyone else's decision, but this is mine and I hope it can be respected.
This always makes me chuckle. Yes, we're regressing. All the way back to like, 25 years ago? This is a top of the head estimate. There are arguments to made that we've regressed further, more recently, or not at all. It's always been "OK" to be vocally hateful and violent. What do you think of all the black babies that have been born during these times? Should their parents have thought better about conceiving them?
And please point me to this "new" America that suddenly finds itself unconcerned with the well-being of POC. That's the only America I've ever known. It's a generally fucked up and scary place if you really allow yourself to think about it.
You are absolutely right.
I have been reexamining myself daily about why I'm so locked into this feeling of inevitable decline and fall when we weren't super awesome to begin with.
I think part of it is that as a woman who was sexually assaulted, putting a *known* rapist in the white house has made me extra unsettled. I thought at LEAST most of society agreed that rape is bad. I had pretty bad PTSD for a long time and I recognize some of the same claustrophobic, catastrophic thinking in how my brain is reacting to news now.
Part of it is that as a lawyer and cautious person, I find the total dismissal by Trump et al of following laws, regulations, and norms disquieting because I worry our future structure as a country is unsound. Yes, our governmental structures and ideals have baked in racism and misogyny and our institutions frequently, regularly fail. And typically law follows social progress, and does not lead it. Now I worry that law will lead social regression and that we won't have a vehicle for how to redress those issues. Our vehicle was a broke down jalopy with 3 tires and a missing muffler before, but it EXISTED.
This isn't really a response to your point alone. Just something I'm thinking through.
Well I don't have kids yet. However, I've actually had the thought more recently (within the past couple of years) that I do want to bring black babies in to this world because we are fucking fabulous. Sure it's scary, my parents raised me in ways that I know white people weren't raised, but I don't think that's a reason to stop pro-creating. I don't think I'll have anymore worries than my parents did raising me or my grandparents did raising my parents. Our worry will likely always be there as black people, but getting so anxious and crawling in a hole and not procreating is not the answer.
I think because Jackson is older, it's hard for me not to worry about how this will impact him. He's 10 now and will be 14 in 2020. This is a tough age already, and a really tough age to be different. I guess I worry that our influence won't be enough over the next four years in what was always going to be an uphill battle, regardless of who was president. I can't discount the things people will be emboldened to do and say and how that will affect him, so in that sense, something has definitely changed and amplified my concern.
I'm pretty confident in who he is and our ability to continue to be the main influences in his life, but I know I'd be sleeping a lot easier if Hillary was in the White House because I think it's hard to know how much of an impact Trump is going to have on the national tone/conversation and kids growing up in an environment where he is the president. For young kids, it's easier to keep them insulated, and I do worry less about Scarlett in this respect. For older kids, that's a lot harder, obviously.
H and I have had this conversation too, about our children's ages. We're happy that L is only 7 right now and A (our son) is only two. I worry what L will see and be confronted with over the next 4 years as I do think that they are pretty formative years, but I'm glad she's only 7.
cville, this is why I get mad at my husband! I have a history degree, a poli sci degree and a law degree and when I start looking at all this shit piling up, I start to spiral into major anxiety and he's like, CALM DOWN. But I think it's easy for him to say that because I don't think he fully grasps the intricacies of how things work and how Trump is such a threat to that (IMO). He's not stupid, and he agrees Trump is vile and dangerous but I think he just fails to grasp how my law degree/knowledge of how our government works is sending me straight to OMG I AM SO SCARED BUILD A FUCKING BUNKER. Our system of government has always had issues and it has always been fragile, but the Trump presidency feels like a full on assault pretty much all the time, which makes me very concerned.
So I'm not sure how to read your tone, but I'll explain myself further. Like I said, I was already on the fence, this just pushed me over. The question asked how worried I am, and I answered.
It's not so much the fact that Trump is president, but that he won through a message of fear and hate. It's obvious that those sentiments have always been there, but now suddenly it's "OK" to engage and be vocal about it. We're regressing as a society, and it makes me very apprehensive for the future.
I'm extremely concerned about the environment. At this point I don't think we can come back from the damage we've caused, and it will only get worse. I don't want to add to that.
I can't say if I would feel differently if Hillary won. At this point I think that there are enough children already in the world who could use my help, and I'd rather focus my time and resources on them. I have no judgement for anyone else's decision, but this is mine and I hope it can be respected.
Procreate or don't, I don't care. But rolling up into a post about "hey, IF you HAVE children, are you scared for them?" and being all "I don't and never would bring new life into this toxic soup of shit" is ... tone deaf.
I'm sorry. I thought I could add to the discussion, but you're correct, I should not have posted.
Well I don't have kids yet. However, I've actually had the thought more recently (within the past couple of years) that I do want to bring black babies in to this world because we are fucking fabulous. Sure it's scary, my parents raised me in ways that I know white people weren't raised, but I don't think that's a reason to stop pro-creating. I don't think I'll have anymore worries than my parents did raising me or my grandparents did raising my parents. Our worry will likely always be there as black people, but getting so anxious and crawling in a hole and not procreating is not the answer.
I can't wait to see your fabulous black babies! :-)
You're exactly right though. Sometimes thinking about the world that my grandparents raised their children in makes my heart hurt. And if you ask them how they did it, they look at you like you're crazy. Lol. However, once you start talking to them, the pain comes through even if they're telling the stories in a humorous way. I remember my granddad telling me a story of how the white police officers used to chase my dad and his brothers home from the white side of town at least twice per week. He told us in a way that had us rolling on the ground laughing, but can you even imagine? A grown man in a uniform literally chasing your perfect babies through the streets because they wanted to play basketball in a different neighborhood. This was in 1950's/1960's Philadelphia. So, basically yesterday. Those schools and playgrounds are still there, and I'm sure many of those officers are enjoying a comfortable retirement and voting to Make America Great Again.
So I'm not sure how to read your tone, but I'll explain myself further. Like I said, I was already on the fence, this just pushed me over. The question asked how worried I am, and I answered.
It's not so much the fact that Trump is president, but that he won through a message of fear and hate. It's obvious that those sentiments have always been there, but now suddenly it's "OK" to engage and be vocal about it. We're regressing as a society, and it makes me very apprehensive for the future.
I'm extremely concerned about the environment. At this point I don't think we can come back from the damage we've caused, and it will only get worse. I don't want to add to that.
I can't say if I would feel differently if Hillary won. At this point I think that there are enough children already in the world who could use my help, and I'd rather focus my time and resources on them. I have no judgement for anyone else's decision, but this is mine and I hope it can be respected.
This always makes me chuckle. Yes, we're regressing. All the way back to like, 25 years ago? This is a top of the head estimate. There are arguments to made that we've regressed further, more recently, or not at all. It's always been "OK" to be vocally hateful and violent. What do you think of all the black babies that have been born during these times? Should their parents have thought better about conceiving them?
So I'm too dumb to be worried because I only have a Bachelor's degree? Lol.
Smarter than me. I invested a shitton of money into a degree premised on the shaky notion that the rule of law can sometimes be used to serve justice. Sigh.
So I'm too dumb to be worried because I only have a Bachelor's degree? Lol.
lol, considering what I paid for said law degree and how much the ROI has been on it (spoiler alert: zero), I'd say you are actually smarter than me.
I would also argue that MH is a lot smarter than me - he's basically a genius. But don't tell him I said that. It's mostly that I can think of really obscure things that aren't really common concerns and it sends me into a spiraling panic because then I start listing all the things I am concerned about and I legit CANNOT STOP. And that's not exactly productive or healthy. Or even really THAT important right now. Me rocking in a corner because of some random thing from law school I remember or see as problematic is basically the exact opposite of important or productive right now. I am regularly telling myself, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER.
And of course, that is not to say other people aren't doing the same without a law degree - I just personally see that degree as part of my current anxiety spiral issue.
ETA: and specific to my husband, he is a mechanical engineer, so our areas of expertise are slightly different and while I had a liberal arts heavy education where these topics are frequently more relevant to my degrees, his studies were very heavily focused on math/science with very little room for liberal arts/humanities. Like maybe one or two required electives, and not at all for his masters degree.
Post by coribelle26 on Nov 22, 2016 11:53:35 GMT -5
I am in the camp that if you're not a giant flaming asshole, this is the time to fill the world with your babies. Especially if you have the means and the desire to educate them and try to expose them to the best and worst of the world.
Yes, it's terrifying. But as some of you implied above, there are incredible people that exist because their parents and grandparents forged ahead in a time when the world was a total shitpile.
I would have 5 if they could figure out how to make them a little less fucking exhausting.
Post by W.T.Faulkner on Nov 22, 2016 11:54:37 GMT -5
Ok, this is getting fucking ridiculous.
*Now* many liberal white people are wringing their hands and choosing not to have children (?) because, omg, there's racism! We aren't a meritocracy!
I guess I'm glad that so many are now donating their time and $ to important causes, but where have you been? What did you think was going to happen if HRC got elected? Why are you only worried NOW?
To the "rich white people" who are just now afraid for their children and/or now not having children, do you think racism just started because of Trump? Like the last 8 years of Obama's presidency eradicated racism?? The shit that has been going on never actually stopped.
My son is a white male, so he personally probably won't be in much danger. But I'm going to do my best to teach him about his privilege, and teach him that it's his job to stand up for those who don't have his privilege.
Agreed.
Related to this: IDK how many people have seen Idiocracy but the scene in the beginning where the smart liberals are being overrun by idiots because of their propensity for popping out babies feels more real than ever. So maybe I'm not "hopeful" per se, but I might be a little more resolved to have more kids (if possible) to raise a generation of caring individuals who want to make the world a better place for everyone.
For those people who have decided not to have kids now, why did you not have a problem having kids in a country where black people are murdered by police? Surely you did not think Hillary Clinton was the single-person answer to what has been happening here.
I can't answer for everyone, but while I am obviously very concerned with racism and didn't expect Clinton to solve that alone, I am more concerned* about us basically being out of time to address climate change. I'm scared of what that is going to mean for everyone in the near future. But this also is not a new concern for me re: kids, it's one reason in a long list we can't seem to make a decision about them.
*not more concerned in a ranking of what should be alarming in society, but based on what I expect to be done to address it under this administration vs what I would have expected from hers. I can do my best to educate fellow white people and donate and volunteer my time to try to address racism in this country. I feel like my recycling and buying LED bulbs and trying to reduce waste will not do much for resource scarcity if he removes all regulations, for example.