Post by pantsparty on Mar 29, 2017 11:23:09 GMT -5
Your responsibility is to your children, not a grown-ass man who can take care of himself. So he's depressed. He's also made a conscious choice not to treat his depression AND made decisions purely for his benefit. Why do you even have to ask your husband and the father of your child to take on a better work schedule for the family? You shouldn't have to beg your life partner to join your life. And ultimately, you cannot help him. He needs to do the work himself.
You can't fix him, and at this point I'd put my daughter' s well-being first.
If you need to have an "excuse" you can tell yourself you're doing a disservice NOt leaving him because as long as you are there he is going to KOKO and not make any changes (because you're handling all of his business). Maybe the change would force him to get his shit together. Or not, but that's on him.
I hope you find the strength to leave. Not to be a totally creepy lurker, but I have read some of your other posts and see that you have been together since HS. Since that time, you've married, had kids, gotten jobs, etc. But while you've grown up, he hasn't. It feels like he substituted his wife for his mother. He's stuck in his adolescence, getting annoyed at his mom/wife for telling him he has to clean up after himself, take care of his kids, participate in the family... and that's really depressing.
I understand you still care for him even if you're done with the marriage. I honestly don't think he'll be able to get better so long as you are still married to him. Your dynamic is not healthy for either of you. He needs to learn an entirely new way of approaching his life, a life that he's responsible for.
Leaving him might be the best possible thing you can do for him. It is certainly the best thing you can do for your children. Focus your care giving on them.
Post by Captain Catnip on Mar 29, 2017 11:53:23 GMT -5
I didn't want to read and not respond but I'll just be echoing a lot of others saying that Lucy is showing and telling you that she's struggling. Do you want to put up with him until David is doing the same thing? Until you have two children struggling with what's going on?
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Mar 29, 2017 11:59:33 GMT -5
As an xw of a drug addict ... in sickness & in health goes so far as to what they're willing to do to get better- rehab, therapy, etc. and how commited they are to it. Xh did complete rehab and for 6 weeks post rehab he was doing really well - then he basically told me that he NEEDED me for his recovery to work, removing the responsibility for his recovery from himself to me so if he did indeed relapse again (which he did) he could pin the blame on me. There were plenty of other things wrong w our relationship (abuse being a HUGE factor) that made our marriage unsalvagable but his drug abuse and refusal to take responsibility and ownership of his own recovery was truly the death knell and the end point for 'in sickness & in health'
Post by sparkythelawyer on Mar 29, 2017 12:00:04 GMT -5
First off, if you need permission to leave, allow me to give it. You have permission to leave. You will not be a bad person for having done so. You have given all you could.
Second. You may have promised "in sickness and in health," but Lucy didn't. Your son didn't. They don't need to keep paying that debt.
You need to take care of yourself and your children. Your husband has to decide whether this life he has built with you is worth fighting for or not. You cannot make that decision for him.
You cannot control what your husband does. You cannot control what your family does. You cannot "good, dutiful girl" your way into everyone behaving.
The only thing you can control is your response to the circumstances in front of you.
You are strong enough for whatever lies ahead of you.
Post by nicbreeful on Mar 29, 2017 12:04:10 GMT -5
But, ProfessorArtNerd, what is HE doing to take care of YOUR mental well-being? I mean, besides abusing you and your children.
What happened to his vows? Why is it OK for him to throw his vows out the window (along with your and your children's happiness) but you have to stick by yours?
This may sound harsh, but I think it's important: you need to start prioritizing the feelings/wellbeing of your children over that of your husband. He is a grown man. He has a job. He has family. He can take care of himself. Your daughter is suffering and she's *telling* you that she's suffering. This kind of dynamic can have long reaching consequences for her.
this SO.MUCH.THIS ... I found myself in CPS cross hairs bc they had their doubts I could protect my child bc I continued to stay w a chronic drug abuser (I met w CPS after the 2nd psych hold). It was such a SOBERING wake up call to me ... I prioritized him over dd and consequences were disasterous. After that meeting, no more. I took care of myself and dd and then h had to take responsibility and do what CPS asked of him. For once, I wasn't going to do it for him.
This is how I've dealt w him since leaving him ... he's a grown man who is fully capable of making the right or wrong decisions for how his life is to turn out. My only responsibility is to dd and myself.
Post by snipsnsnails on Mar 29, 2017 12:17:08 GMT -5
Oh, sweet friend, I so wish I could look into your face and tell you these things. I'd laugh with you and cry with you and pray for you, because I know your heart is heavy right now. I hope I'm not overstepping, but I fear as if I sense some guilt and condemnation in your question. Hear me when I say, guilt never, ever comes from God. The Bible says explicitly that there is no condemnation for those who are in Him. None. Only love. And kindness. That's all He has for you. Love.
I'm going to try, very carefully and lovingly, to let you know that God is not calling you to be abused. In the scope of His story in the Bible, he continually has people run from persecution and abuse. When Jesus is asked about divorce, he talks about God's plan for marriage, and purposely includes that there are times when divorce happens.
When you exchanged vows, there was a loving picture in mind of two people committed to loving one another selflessly and without any manner of cruelty. The very same way God loves us. When you are with someone who does not seek sustained mental health treatment and is violent - either emotionally, physically, spiritually, mentally - he has been unfaithful to those vows. Give yourself grace and permission to form those needed boundaries by separating yourself from this. I'm sending so much love to you, lp. You are in my heart.
This may sound harsh, but I think it's important: you need to start prioritizing the feelings/wellbeing of your children over that of your husband. He is a grown man. He has a job. He has family. He can take care of himself. Your daughter is suffering and she's *telling* you that she's suffering. This kind of dynamic can have long reaching consequences for her.
QFT. Prof, I love you. You're my friend and I would do anything for you. I know this has been hard with all of the other responsibilities you're juggling.
I was Lucy. It was awful. It got to the point where I used to chew on my fingers until they bled because of anxiety.
Isn't Lucy in therapy because of these issues? Why should your daughter be in therapy when your husband refuses? Wouldn't a lot of the issues resolve for L if her dad wasn't there making it worse?
I haven't responded to a lot of your posts, but I've read most of them. It sounds like you are looking for someone to tell you it's okay to leave. IT'S OKAY. It's not just okay, it's the RIGHT THING TO DO.
Yes to all of this.
I feel like you not only want to hear that it's "okay" to leave him, but that you're waiting for someone to give you permission. The only person whose permission you need is from YOU.
There is never going to be a perfect time or perfect circumstances. There will always be "complications."
And I don't mean to sound harsh because I can only imagine how difficult this is, but another day you stay with him is another day you and your children are suffering.
He is never going to change and so long as you stay with him, in his mind, why should he?
This may sound harsh, but I think it's important: you need to start prioritizing the feelings/wellbeing of your children over that of your husband. He is a grown man. He has a job. He has family. He can take care of himself. Your daughter is suffering and she's *telling* you that she's suffering. This kind of dynamic can have long reaching consequences for her.
A-fucking-men, especially your last sentence. The longer you stay, the likelihood that this dynamic WILL have long-reaching consequences for her.
This may sound harsh, but I think it's important: you need to start prioritizing the feelings/wellbeing of your children over that of your husband. He is a grown man. He has a job. He has family. He can take care of himself. Your daughter is suffering and she's *telling* you that she's suffering. This kind of dynamic can have long reaching consequences for her.
QFT. Prof, I love you. You're my friend and I would do anything for you. I know this has been hard with all of the other responsibilities you're juggling.
I was Lucy. It was awful. It got to the point where I used to chew on my fingers until they bled because of anxiety.
It's time to be done.
Awww, Eagles.
I was Lucy, too...and I love my mom to pieces but let's just say that my resentment over her choosing her husbands (including my own father) over my well-being and that of my siblings is very much an undercurrent of our relationship. Not to mention that I put up with a lot of shit from boyfriends, thinking I could fix them. Wonder where I got that from???
You're not that man's caretaker. Are you a psychiatrist? If that's the help he needs, you can't provide it, so there's your answer.
If his depression is your reason for staying, you've helped exactly no one by doing so, except maybe yourself. I know that's not your intention, but that's how it will play out in both the long and short run. Recognize what you're getting out of this dynamic, and keep making progress towards breaking the bad habit. I know you can do it.
Post by thelurkylulu on Mar 29, 2017 13:11:35 GMT -5
If you would have known the man he would become or how he was going to treat you when you took those vows, would you still have taken them? People change and you have tried to love him and help him. He doesn't want help and he can't accept responsibility for any of his actions. Your children deserve more and so do you.
A quick skim of your thread history (like, just reading the titles) showed that you've been dealing with this and feeling like you want to end things/things are bad enough to end things since AT LEAST August 2015. That's 1 year and 8 months at this point. This is no way to live. Extended stress like this is not healthy for you or your kids. It is understandable to wait and see if things improve, but in at least 20 months, things have not improved and if anything have only gotten worse. How much longer are you willing to waste?
Standing by a spouse who is getting the help they need and taking the steps to get better or at least manageable is one thing, standing by one who wants to ignore his problems is another. Also, Being with someone who suffers from depression can be so hard. I know, having been on both sides. I think you have put in your time. You have been supportive and you are simply done. He does nothing to help make things better. He does nothing to make himself better. And it not just about you or him, but also your kids and they are the ones who will really suffer.
Don't let him make you feel like a jerk for wanting to leave. You have really, really tried and it is ok for you to be done.
This has already been said, but I'm going to say it again to further emphasize the point - being an abusive asshole is not a sickness, it's being an abusive asshole. He might be depressed, but he has no motivation to get well because the status quo is working for him.
I know you two have been together for a really long time, and that being without him (even as he continues to be an abusive asshole) is a daunting prospect, and it's OK to feel that way about a person who has been a part of your life for such a long time. But at the same time the relationship you used to have doesn't exist anymore, and you have to look ahead not only for yourself but for Lucy and David.
In my next life I want to write half as well as snipsnsnails does.
You're so sweet and have been such a kind friend over the years. xoxo I hope if there was anything even sorta helpful or loving, it was from Him and I got out of the way.
You come here and post little tidbits of information asking these ladies for strength to do what you obviously know you should be doing. Each time you get pages and pages of support. Literally hundreds of women have offered you and your children well wishes, strength, love.
You are at a cross road. Your minor child wants out of the situation. That's how bad it is. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's not affecting her or that she will not blame you for staying with him.
Leave.
If you really can't leave then figure out how to make your family function in a healthy manner. If that means calling up the family therapist yourself and getting his mother or sister to drag him to the appointment by his ear do it. Start telling all the family and friends how shitty he is. Do not offer him santuary. You owe it to your children to provide a safe, healthy environment for them to grow up in.
I may be flamed for this but, honestly, at this point I'd start to moderate what you put out here. Someone else mentioned their involvement with CPS. That was a different situation but you have basically stated in these little tidbits that your husband is at least emotionally abusing your children (and did L say he was hitting D at some point?). Don't create a record of incidents. *Note, this is in no way a threat. I have neither the interest or ability to delve into you anonymity, but wanted to point out what you are putting out there and that this is not a safe place.
You're not that man's caretaker. Are you a psychiatrist? If that's the help he needs, you can't provide it, so there's your answer.
If his depression is your reason for staying, you've helped exactly no one by doing so, except maybe yourself. I know that's not your intention, but that's how it will play out in both the long and short run. Recognize what you're getting out of this dynamic, and keep making progress towards breaking the bad habit. I know you can do it.
Yes! This is important. YOU are getting something out of this dysfunction. What is it and why does it have a hold on you?
Because if I take care of people (my mom, my dad, sister, H) then. They'll need and like me
Post by Captain Catnip on Mar 29, 2017 14:27:12 GMT -5
ProfessorArtNerd, Is it really worth having people around you that ONLY like you because you do something for them? If L said to you "I do XYZ's homework because otherwise they won't like me or be my friend." (simple comparison, I know) would you encourage her to continue that? Is it really worth it?
To be frank, Lucy clearly has voiced that she needs something better. She's a brilliant kid. Don't wait for a green light to make a move that will never come. Save your family, and that is you, David and Lucy.
Yes! This is important. YOU are getting something out of this dysfunction. What is it and why does it have a hold on you?
Because if I take care of people (my mom, my dad, sister, H) then. They'll need and like me
I applaud you for your honesty here. That's raw.
But remember that taking care of your H right now means that you're not taking care of your daughter in the way that she's *telling you* she needs. How will that impact your relationship with her 10 or 20 years from now?
My mother was the enabler and it forever has shaped my view of her and our relationship.