TWW 11/6

[seeyalater52]

I’m so sorry @writererin. I too hope you will be ringing in good news this month!

Sorry for cd1 sarapocalypse.

And thanks for all of your support about my dumb insurance situation. It sounds stupid but it really helps me to feel less gaslit about what is happening bc I really start to doubt myself when everyone insists it’s perfectly fine.

Got the veeeeeeery faintest of lines this morning on the wondfo. I’m 8dpIUI and i think that was the last of my trigger. I am so nervous and sick for the next few days and wondering what will happen. Totally broke down this morning and cried at the farmers market where there were so many sweet new bitty babes. I am feeling so hopeful and kicking myself for it.

[Deleted]

Nov 11, 2017 11:23:19 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

And thanks for all of your support about my dumb insurance situation. It sounds stupid but it really helps me to feel less gaslit about what is happening bc I really start to doubt myself when everyone insists it’s perfectly fine.

Your insurance's policy seems very discriminatory to me, based on what you've said.  It would be one thing if they denied IUI/fertility coverage to everyone, but they're just denying it to you because you happen to be married to someone of the same gender.  That's not cool.

I really hope that your HR person gets her head out of her ass.  But if that's not possible or likely, I hope the next HR person will actually stand up for you.

[tacom]

seeyalater52 I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. When it’s not so raw, I’d be interested in hearing their “interpretation” of the plan and how it’s not discriminatory.

For reference, two of my coworkers in my small department had full coverage for IUI with donor sperm (1 single mom, 1 woman in a same sex couple) and I️ think they both mentioned IVF could have been at least partially covered.

It’s bullshit that health insurance is tied to employment anyways and different people can have such vastly different access to affordable healthcare.

[seeyalater52]

Nov 11, 2017 13:02:01 GMT -5 tacom said:

seeyalater52 I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. When it’s not so raw, I’d be interested in hearing their “interpretation” of the plan and how it’s not discriminatory.

For reference, two of my coworkers in my small department had full coverage for IUI with donor sperm (1 single mom, 1 woman in a same sex couple) and I️ think they both mentioned IVF could have been at least partially covered.

It’s bullshit that health insurance is tied to employment anyways and different people can have such vastly different access to affordable healthcare.

Fertility treatments (minus some types of meds) are very explicitly fully and 100% covered by our policy with no lifetime max, and by all Division of Insurance compliant health plans in Massachusetts by state mandate. The only exclusions in our plan are that you have to verify 1 full year (or 12 cycles) of “exposure to sperm” via your medical provider, and the insurer has to sign off on their verification. And they have a requirement of 3 IUIs before paying for IVF (all of those are covered if you meet the exposure to sperm qualification.)

I spoke with 4 different specialists, one of which is the biggest LGBT health center in the Boston area and has one of the oldest fertility programs for same sex couples in the country and they and all the the providers said that the only proof of exposure to sperm they would accept was 12 in-office insemination procedures (either ICI or IUI). Which have to be done with donor sperm bc you can’t inseminate with sperm from someone who isn’t your intimate partner without jumping through a lot of expensive legal and medical hoops.

Since I know more than a few straight couples who have taken advantage of this benefit, including one of my coworkers, I know that all they typically require is a verbal confirmation of a year of trying to conceive, plus the usual fertility panel testing (which I also had done, and which is mostly covered because it’s diagnostic.) And in a lot of cases nothing shows up in a couple’s fertility workup because unexplained infertility is the most common scenario. But if we had wanted to try at home with known donor sperm, which was our original plan, that wouldn’t have counted for anything because even if our provider had verified it, they couldn’t prove it with documentation to the insurer. Which is obviously completely discriminatory.

They claim that the in-office insemination procedures aren’t necessary and that we could use some other method to verify exposure to sperm. But they won’t give any additional information to me or to the provider about what verification they would accept. All along they have been very clear that just saying we tried isn’t enough but they are sort of implying that that’s not the case. Or maybe they would accept receipts of purchases from a sperm bank, which they previously told me would not count, and which none of the providers had heard of being accepted for coverage. But again they won’t say. Although to be honest I see that as equally discriminatory because it would preclude couples from making the best decision for their family about which sperm to use to try to achieve pregnancy (known donor or bank.) Using a known donor at a providers office is prohibitively expensive. We were quoted about 7k for 3 vials.

Their core assertion is that the year of trying is necessary to establish medical infertility which sounds reasonable on its face but doesn’t make a lot of sense given that:
1) they don’t actually take your individual circumstances into account at all. My borderline PCOS situation is relatively minor, but even if I or someone else had a more explicit diagnosis that would make achieving pregnancy more difficult they’d still be required to do 12 months of self-pay inseminations before coverage kicked in.
2) some of the straight couples who have been “trying for a year” aren’t very careful or knowledgeable about tracking ovulation and maximizing chances of conception but they still don’t need to prove anything to take advantage of our coverage.
3) at some point your chances of getting pregnant with IUI drop off dramatically. 12 months of IUIs is not the medical standard of care before moving a couple to IVF. Virtually no doctors recommend this approach because it’s a waste of your time and money so it’s ridiculous to force anyone to pursue this course of treatment before allowing coverage.

12 months of IUIs at my clinic is something like $15,000.
Plus 12 vials of donor sperm which is another almost $10,000.

Basically all this stuff is incredibly expensive and they’re full of excuses about why it’s effectively my fault for having the audacity to be gay and trying to start a family. I know that I dont have infertility (at least as far as anyone knows right now) but it doesn’t quite seem right that nothing should be covered because my sexuality is seen as “voluntary” infertility. Exposure to sperm is fucking complicated for us!

And as you point out tacom plenty of same sex couples (and single individuals) CAN access fertility treatment if it’s covered under their plans. We are only excluded because our insurer went out of their way to spell out a discriminatory standard for individuals and couples in those situations. I seriously read stories every single day about gay people getting coverage for treatments because no one bothered to write them out of the policy which just makes me even more annoyed.

Ok so I’ve written a novel.

[compassrose]

WTHF that at-home insemination doesn't count??!! Eff them all. I'm so sorry seeyalater52. Burn it down!

[tacom]

“all the the providers said that the only proof of exposure to sperm they would accept was 12 in-office insemination procedures (either ICI or IUI).“

“Since I know more than a few straight couples who have taken advantage of this benefit, including one of my coworkers, I know that all they typically require is a verbal confirmation of a year of trying to conceive, plus the usual fertility panel testing. . . But if we had wanted to try at home with known donor sperm, which was our original plan, that wouldn’t have counted for anything because even if our provider had verified it, they couldn’t prove it with documentation to the insurer.”


Fuck this. So they’ll take your word for it, unless you’re gay?

[Jalapeñomel]

I really have no words for how awful this is seeyalater52 yet another way for the world to punish you for being you, POS.

[seeyalater52]

Nov 12, 2017 7:56:39 GMT -5 tacom said:

“all the the providers said that the only proof of exposure to sperm they would accept was 12 in-office insemination procedures (either ICI or IUI).“

“Since I know more than a few straight couples who have taken advantage of this benefit, including one of my coworkers, I know that all they typically require is a verbal confirmation of a year of trying to conceive, plus the usual fertility panel testing. . . But if we had wanted to try at home with known donor sperm, which was our original plan, that wouldn’t have counted for anything because even if our provider had verified it, they couldn’t prove it with documentation to the insurer.”


Fuck this. So they’ll take your word for it, unless you’re gay?

This is how it works in practice. Not that I want any couple to be subjected to providing additional proof but everyone’s word should be good enough for their “proof” or no one’s.

You guys are all so so sweet to be supportive. It truly makes me feel less crazy. I think I’m going to need to head to therapy specifically to deal with how angry and stressed out this insurance stuff makes me, but my last therapist (and to some extent my doctor) was pretty adamant that all of this wasn’t discriminatory (I stopped seeing her) so I’m almost afraid to start up with someone else.

Meanwhile hpt stark white at 9dpiui. Trigger is definitely out.

[compassrose]

I’m sorry seeyalater52 that your therapist was so terrible. My BFF’s husband is trans, so they will never have fertility coverage because he is ‘sterile by choice’ which is such bullshit. You’d think MA of all places would be queer-friendly but no.

[seeyalater52]

Nov 12, 2017 10:01:53 GMT -5 compassrose said:

I’m sorry seeyalater52 that your therapist was so terrible. My BFF’s husband is trans, so they will never have fertility coverage because he is ‘sterile by choice’ which is such bullshit. You’d think MA of all places would be queer-friendly but no.

Insurers are bullshit. I get that it’s their job to try to exclude everyone from coverage in as many circumstances as possible but it’s stupid and in this case also discriminatory.

I’m so sorry that your BFF and her husband are in a similar position. I never realized how much separation there was in perception between medical and so-called social infertility. And it doesn’t seem to occur to anyone that people with social infertility can’t exactly just un-“choose” whatever factors they have that lead them to be unable to conceive without intervention. Or that people with social infertility could actually have issues getting pregnant that go beyond those circumstances and that need medical attention.

This is one of those times when it would be better to be invisible. MA being so queer friendly means my insurer took time to play out a same-sex couple’s scenario and write me out of the policy. Being ignored would have been preferable.

[seeyalater52]

I wonder how worried I should be that I don’t have any of my usual PMS symptoms. I typically have swollen breasts and sore nipples starting around 7dpo. It’s very consistent. I’m 9dpo and nothing. Could the absence of symptoms be a symptom? You’d think the progesterone suppositories would be enhancing not minimizing the usual fluctuations that cause these symptoms.

[Deleted]

I know you have moved on a bit in the conversation, but I feel such rage on your behalf, seeyalater52, reading all that BS your insurance company wrote into their policy. That's an almost impressive level of not wanting same-sex couples to get pregnant, for them to think all that out. It just...ugh. I hope you can find a supportive therapist, because it sounds like it would be good for you to talk through this fuckery. But if you can't find a therapist you like, at least know you can rant to us any time.

I also don't know what to tell you about your lack of symptoms. In the past (before bc), I usually didn't feel PMS symptoms until a day or two before AF, so I can't relate much to your issue. But I guess lack of PMS symptoms could be a symptom in itself, since you've been consistent in the past. I'll knock on some wood for you!

[seeyalater52]

Thanks @writererin. I have been trying to find a new therapist for a few months now but our networks sucks for mental health so it’s incredibly hard. I probably should talk to someone because this level of anger and resentment can’t be healthy.

Maybe the lack of symptoms is the symptom! It’s definitely different than past cycles. I do have one symptom which is that I am SO gassy. Makes it hard to tell whether cramping is cramping or just upset tummy. Or if shooting pains are implantation pains or ... something else. I apparently enjoy analyzing things to death.

Erin, how are you feeling? Will you test tomorrow or more of a wait and see approach?

[Deleted]

seeyalater52, if nothing comes by tomorrow morning, I plan to test then. My period tends to be pretty on-time every month, so if there's still nothing tomorrow, I'll be jumping out of my skin to test anyway! Generally, I feel okay. I've had some cramping off and on over the last few days (which is unusual for PMS for me...usually I just cramp day of and maybe day two as well). I'm having a lot of CM, which is usually a PMS thing for me, but I guess it can also happen with pregnancy too, to protect a fertilized egg? The biggest thing is, though, that my breasts are stupid sore to the point that I was hurting them while I was driving this morning...also, I'm nauseous and my appetite is way out of whack.

When I came home from church, and I told DH that I haven't started bleeding yet, he yelled that I needed to knock on wood. lol *knocks on wood again*

[seeyalater52]

@writererin, yay I am so hopeful for you!! Fingers crossed, I think your symptoms sound very promising.

[compassrose]

@writererin, sore breasts and nausea are so promising! I hope you get your BFP tomorrow!

[sarapocalypse]

Fingers crossed @writererin!

[gigem]

@writererin im hoping af doesnt come for you tmrrw!!! Ive also read about there being cm in early pregnancy, ugh pms vs early preg is so tricky

I on the otherhand am not hopeful, im getting a bit of acne which is classic pms sign for me. I still think im a good 7-9days out from testing. The first wk flew by but i think this is gonna be a long sexond wk of waiting. Otherwise i feel nothing now which is well i dont know haha

[seeyalater52]

Negative again at 10dpo. Trying not to read too much into it but it’s hard. Still no symptoms besides the gas and constant hunger.

[compassrose]

Too early seeyalater52. I’m keeping a good thought for you!

I got crosshairs, so now I’m debating whether to keep temping.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2017 0:29:27 GMT -5 gigem said:

@writererin im hoping af doesnt come for you tmrrw!!! Ive also read about there being cm in early pregnancy, ugh pms vs early preg is so tricky

You're telling me.  A couple nights ago, I fell down the Google rabbit hole, because I had read somewhere that cold symptoms can also be symptoms of early pregnancy...and my nose was way congested.  One of the articles I skimmed said the same thing -- that early pregnancy and PMS can be very similar -- and I was like "great."  It's a wonder that all the generations of women before us -- and before the Internet -- didn't lose their minds trying to figure out what was going on.

[Deleted]

compassrose, Obviously, you have to do what is good for your mental health. I decided to not temp after getting my crosshairs this cycle, and I was so much less anxious. I feel like temping every morning, and then putting the information on my chart, it was just making me constantly aware of my status.

seeyalater52, I'm crossing my fingers that it's just too early for you to test.

[seeyalater52]

compassrose does the testing stress you out or do you prefer having all the info? For me I like having the data more than being less stressed, but I definitely notice that temping increases my stress level.

I am having pretty intense intermittent cramping this morning. Not sure what is going on, I've never felt anything like this outside of my period.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2017 9:06:27 GMT -5 seeyalater52 said:

compassrose does the testing stress you out or do you prefer having all the info? For me I like having the data more than being less stressed, but I definitely notice that temping increases my stress level.

I am having pretty intense intermittent cramping this morning. Not sure what is going on, I've never felt anything like this outside of my period.

I don't want to get your hopes up too high -- because I know how much it hurts if they get smashed later on -- but not for nothing, I had very strange, rather intense cramping for a few days last week.  Some sharp pains, and then some more mild pain that felt more like my normal period cramping, just at the wrong time for PMS.  It was never bad enough that I needed to take painkillers, but it was weird, unsettling, and abnormal for me around period time.

[compassrose]

So overall, I have preferred to have the data. But something seems to have flipped after so much time. It’s 18 mo this time but 7 years since my first miscarriage with my XH.
I keep waking up thinking it’s time to temp, so I don’t sleep as well. Letting go for a while last month seemed to help. So I’m leaning toward taking a break for a week or so.

[gigem]

seeyalater52 ime too early, i know it works for some but ive never tested before a good long 14dpo at least. Dont rule out anything yet. Xfingers

[gigem]

If wish i could test now haha. Im in paris for a quick trip and got two preg tests to take home. Im nostalgic bc i was in paris just after my first u/s w dd and im worried im getting convinced of something that isn’t gonna b this cycle. Im still obsessing about or timing bc dh had a sh!t wk the days after my pos opk altho we bd within 12 and 24hrs of the test (since it was the wknd still haha) we didn’t manage to bd after that.

[gigem]

Nov 13, 2017 8:15:24 GMT -5 @writererin said:

Nov 13, 2017 0:29:27 GMT -5 gigem said:

@writererin im hoping af doesnt come for you tmrrw!!! Ive also read about there being cm in early pregnancy, ugh pms vs early preg is so tricky

You're telling me.  A couple nights ago, I fell down the Google rabbit hole, because I had read somewhere that cold symptoms can also be symptoms of early pregnancy...and my nose was way congested.  One of the articles I skimmed said the same thing -- that early pregnancy and PMS can be very similar -- and I was like "great."  It's a wonder that all the generations of women before us -- and before the Internet -- didn't lose their minds trying to figure out what was going on.

Maybe they were more in tune with their bodies since they didn’t have the internet to “tell” them how they do/should feel haha! Im getting some acne which is a usual pms symptom for me but the internet told me it could go either way. Im still to flustered to test before at least another 5 days.

[seeyalater52]

I’m still not pregnant (12dpiui) and work is officially insane again and I’m on my way to a conference for the rest of the week. I’m so displeased.

I also seem to have developed some super intense anxiety/rage around my workplace. Like, it was one thing being pissed off about the insurance company being a dick. But the coworkers I confided in about this were so sure our company would stand up against it and do something to help and I feel so naive for believing that bringing this issue up would make a difference. I’m resentful and I spent all day yesterday dodging HR director in the halls because I just really don’t want to make nice with her. I went from feeling like I’d retire from this organization to wondering if I should try to find another job, but it’s also incredibly difficult to assess what insurance a company has AND whether it’s self-insured or state law compliant and I need to know both things.

My wife is in the running for a new job that would be a bit of a financial game changer for us but the process is so slow and I am so scared it’s not going to work out.

I have never been this stressed out and there’s no end in sight.

[gigem]

Hugs seeyalater52. You are going through a lot, i wish i had something really wise and insightful to tell you. You are in my thoughts!.