I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.
I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.
I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.
I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.
I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.
Good luck.
Omg can we NOT "boys will be boys!!!" this? The fact that this type of behavior is seen as "typical tween" stuff is the reason we have violence in schools. This is NOT normal and it's NOT okay.
Not a parent, so I don't have advice for OP, but I have an unrelated question: When a kid is expelled from school, what happens to the kid? They're legally required to go to school, but they're not allowed in school, so ... where do they go? I live in a tiny district that has one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school. If a kid is expelled here, there isn't another school to go to. The next nearest school is 15 miles away, and they won't bus between communities. Are the parents required to homeschool?
I would assume they have to do online school or apply for open enrollment at another school. Transportation would probably be on the parents to figure out.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. My DS (5) hit another child in the face with scissors b/c he thought the kid was going to mark up his paper. I know how it feels to feel angry, sad, embarrassed and at a loss all at once. I don't really have any advice though b/c when our kids act so out of the norm for them, it's so hard to make sure they never do it again. Hang in there, you're doing good.
Post by themysteriouswife on Nov 15, 2017 12:28:54 GMT -5
Isn't auntie known for dumb parenting advice?
I would want more than one day suspension if this happened at my child's school. This is not a small problem. He threatened another person. I won't lie, I would likely be blowing shit up if this was my kid's school. I wouldn't want him near my kids.
Post by thelurkylulu on Nov 15, 2017 12:44:12 GMT -5
I have no idea what I would do in this situation and I think you seem to be on top of it. Hopefully being suspended and police involvement will scare the shit out of him.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I would also suggest not leaving pocket knives where he can access them in the future. Kids are curious by nature and IMO, those are for adults and shouldn't be accessible to kids that young.
Post by icedcoffee on Nov 15, 2017 13:29:39 GMT -5
Can I ask what the police citation means?
Also---I just wanted to clarify that when I suggested therapy it was in ADDITION to the punishment you already recommended and not in place of it like whatever crazy nonsense auntie is spewing.
You seem to be taking a good, reasonable approach.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.
I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.
I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.
I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.
I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.
Good luck.
You know a bunch of 9-year-old knife collectors?
it's ok! Don't worry about it, she has a robust scouting background so it's all under control. phew
Oh he is being punished. There will be no waiting for a second time. He is LUCKY he is not expelled or suspended for longer.
I really really want to write a note to the other parent - to let them know I am sorry, he knows better, he was taught to do better, and will do better going forward. I don't know the child or parent - if I did, I would have called or emailed on my own to apologize and have my son apologize again. Is that stupid for me to write a note and ask the AP to deliver if possible?
I feel for the other boys and parents. You guys are absolutely right - if my kid had come home and said Joe Schmo brought a knife to school today and threatened me - I would be livid as stated before. I don't want this child to be scared to come to school - now I don't know if he is but I don't want there to be any bad feelings toward school.
Some one above stated exactly how I still feel - mad, disappointed, sad, livid, embarrassed, shamed, upset, etc all at once.
Omg can we NOT "boys will be boys!!!" this? The fact that this type of behavior is seen as "typical tween" stuff is the reason we have violence in schools. This is NOT normal and it's NOT okay.
It probably is typical UMC white male behavior. It sure would explain a lot of grown white men behavior.
Sorry, but TO A MAN these knife-wielding children grew up to be upstanding citizens. Scout’s honor.
I understand a 9yo kid finding a pocket knife at home and bringing it in to show his friends.
But him threatening a kid with it takes it to a whole new level that has nothing to do with Boy Scout camping.
Agree with this and I do feel the punishment fit the crime so to speak.
I wanted to bring up the Boy Scout thing. When the boys I led were in 5th grade, they had to earn their pocket knife. There was a whole series of safety things we had to discuss and they had to sign a contract regarding safe use before they were even allowed to whittle a stick. OP, even if he’s not a Scout, maybe google “Boy Scout pocket knife contract” or “Boy Scout Toten Chip” and see if you can find it. There are videos about knife safety and your could draw up your own contract with his regarding the pocket knife to help really drive the point home that this is serious (it may also help in court to show that you have been proactive in this way).
Agree with this and I do feel the punishment fit the crime so to speak.
I wanted to bring up the Boy Scout thing. When the boys I led were in 5th grade, they had to earn their pocket knife. There was a whole series of safety things we had to discuss and they had to sign a contract regarding safe use before they were even allowed to whittle a stick. OP, even if he’s not a Scout, maybe google “Boy Scout pocket knife contract” or “Boy Scout Toten Chip” and see if you can find it. There are videos about knife safety and your could draw up your own contract with his regarding the pocket knife to help really drive the point home that this is serious (it may also help in court to show that you have been proactive in this way).
I like you. I do.
But I think we are beyond printing out a boy scout pocket knife contract and having him sign it. It's not worth the paper it's printed on. And taking it into court to show them he is serious. No.
I get what you are saying and I recognize that the contract would have no legal footing. I suggested it because in our district, a first time offense of this nature would likely include a disciplinary contract between the district and the student and family, and if the terms of the contract were not met, the student would be expelled. Also, when they go to court, the judge will likely look for intent and remorse. A contract between the parents and the kid might help illustrate the points that they have discussed as a family to both the district and the court to show that they aren’t just trying to ignore the situation, but rather are trying to be proactive. I suggested looking at the Boy Scout knife materials because I remember thinking they were rather comprehensive about knife safety and covered points I would not have thought of on my own (I was terrified to teach the knife lesson and saved it for the very last thing we did because I didn’t want kids losing fingers - I made each kid have a parent with them and made them practice whittling with soap and plastic knives first - I’m super paranoid about things like that).
Post by ElizabethBennet on Nov 16, 2017 1:01:35 GMT -5
OP, you've gotten some good advice. And some really WTF responses. As a parent I would be devastated if this had been my child, and I am so sorry that you are going through this. However, involving the police is not an overreaction, and anyone that says otherwise is dumb. For real. If this had been my child their world would end.
Threatening anyone in any capacity is never acceptable and if it takes all of these actions to get your son to realize this then so be it.
Oh he is being punished. There will be no waiting for a second time. He is LUCKY he is not expelled or suspended for longer.
I really really want to write a note to the other parent - to let them know I am sorry, he knows better, he was taught to do better, and will do better going forward. I don't know the child or parent - if I did, I would have called or emailed on my own to apologize and have my son apologize again. Is that stupid for me to write a note and ask the AP to deliver if possible?
I feel for the other boys and parents. You guys are absolutely right - if my kid had come home and said Joe Schmo brought a knife to school today and threatened me - I would be livid as stated before. I don't want this child to be scared to come to school - now I don't know if he is but I don't want there to be any bad feelings toward school.
Some one above stated exactly how I still feel - mad, disappointed, sad, livid, embarrassed, shamed, upset, etc all at once.
Why not have a conversation with your kid about writing that note - he should be the one to apologise as he made the decision. Obviously you would talk through what is appropriate to write, but this is something that shows he's taking on the responsibility for his actions - which is a good thing to learn at his age.
My son wouldn't have a bedroom door (can't be trusted - no privacy). He would have to have his backpack checked every.single.day - can't be trusted - no privacy. Any video games would be GONE - can't tell the difference between fiction/reality - GONE. TV would be seriously limited, as would any internet. And I'd be taking a long, hard look at who his friends were and what he was spending his free time doing.
And all of this is AFTER he was grounded, had extra chores, apologized to the other students, etc
Regarding the "boys will be boys" nonsense. No. Just no. Heck, if my kid did this, he may very well find himself eating off a damn spork since he find weapons something he can't use sense around. And I don't care if it were to hurt his "feelings". If this was an adult, this would be considered assault (I believe, I'm not an attorney) and I'd rather hurt my kid's "feelings" and scare the crap out of him and make his life so uncomfortable that he thinks twice before doing dumb shit...than have him wind up in jail or worse by pulling a stunt like that again.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.
I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.
I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.
I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.
I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you might not want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.
dealing with police is "powerful stuff" for a nine year old? what. So bringing a knife to school and threatening other kids is not powerful stuff though? It wasn't like it was a machete? what the hell is wrong with you people
Now I have a son and I completely sympathize that this has happened to OP and it sounds like she is dealing with it with a very level head, but I do support harsh and "scary" punishments for what is a harsh infraction that was likely scary for the other kids. Not waiting for a second offense to teach a kid that bringing weapons to school is bad.
Yes!
Holy fuck at some of you. Although I'm not surprised at all. I expected some to say having the police called would scare their preshus too much. Arent most mass school shooting done by white kids with a gun? At what point do you step in with the police that is acceptable to you guys regarding a kid bringing a weapon to school? Or is that where some of you stick to your time outs in a corner. Keep showing your asses.
The facts are the kid brought a knife to school and threatened someone. Those are FACTS.
OP, I can only imagine what this is like for you. I am truly sorry you are all going through this.
One more time for the cheap seats. YES THEY ARE.
OP, I'm not saying that your son is going to turn into a mass killer. By no means am I saying that. But to those of you that are dismissing the law enforcement aspect of students who bring a weapon--OF ANY KIND--to school, WTF?
The pervasive permissiveness, the entitlement, the "special snowflake"-esque way that most parents (NOT OP) deal with their children these days (I'm looking at you, UMC+ white parents).........that's why this country is the way it is right now.
OP, I'm sorry this is happening in your family. I think you are on the right track re: disciplinary action. I agree w/ the suggestion about some counseling re: the why.
And finally, personal disclosure: I took a knife to school (purposefully) in 9th or 10th grade (steak knife, kept it in my pencil case) for many months because I was being tormented by a specific girl (it went on for 5 years).
Usually I assume that the ridiculous things people share here are true, but this is so foolish that I’m hoping it was made up, or at least embellished, for rhetorical effect.
Post by killercupcake on Nov 16, 2017 20:49:05 GMT -5
I am baffled, but not shocked, by some of the “The punishment is too harsh” stuff.
My school has a zero tolerance policy for this. And considering we had a fucking stabbing last month, I’m fine with a citation being issued for bringing a weapon on campus and then threatening someone with it.
Usually I assume that the ridiculous things people share here are true, but this is so foolish that I’m hoping it was made up, or at least embellished, for rhetorical effect.
It's so real! I can't tell you how many times I've lost a fierce ebay battle for an antique switchblade to a 9 year old.
I am dealing with something very similar only my son is 13 and it wasn't at school but with a group of friends this past July. They were out having an airsoft war, which I knew nothing about but that's another thing, and my DS brought a pocket knife with him as they were in the woods.
He pulled the knife out in front of one of the kids he didn't know, there were a total of 12 boys, and the kid took it to be a threat. DS never made any threats but the kid took it as one and called his dad. The dad called the police. DS was charged with two counts of threats against a minor.
Yesterday after having to go thru a psycho assessment (four visits for three hours each time) the courts decided he won't do this again and he had to agree to a plea deal. One count was dropped but six months of probation and 30 hours of community service.
I guess all that is to say, damon right the police should be called because he did something he shouldn't have done. D'S is a boy scout and knows better. In his mind he took it along to cut down tree branches in his way but not everyone saw it that way. Now he gets to pay for it.
No way in he'll I would have brushed it off and said if you do it again....
I am dealing with something very similar only my son is 13 and it wasn't at school but with a group of friends this past July. They were out having an airsoft war, which I knew nothing about but that's another thing, and my DS brought a pocket knife with him as they were in the woods.
He pulled the knife out in front of one of the kids he didn't know, there were a total of 12 boys, and the kid took it to be a threat. DS never made any threats but the kid took it as one and called his dad. The dad called the police. DS was charged with two counts of threats against a minor.
Yesterday after having to go thru a psycho assessment (four visits for three hours each time) the courts decided he won't do this again and he had to agree to a plea deal. One count was dropped but six months of probation and 30 hours of community service.
I guess all that is to say, damon right the police should be called because he did something he shouldn't have done. D'S is a boy scout and knows better. In his mind he took it along to cut down tree branches in his way but not everyone saw it that way. Now he gets to pay for it.
No way in he'll I would have brushed it off and said if you do it again....
I had to google airsoft games. I made the mistake of then looking at a YouTube of “what to bring to an airsoft war”. What the fuck ever happened to dodgeball, baseball and riding bikes lol.
9 year olds are malleable. What better time to have significant discipline action for a horrible decision? If more schools, courts, police took this level of involvement when kids were younger, we’d have much less school shootings, stabbings, bomb threats. No more of this “white boys will be white boys”. No, assholes. There are consequences to your actions. What better time to stop the privledge than when they are young?
OP, you are doing all the right things. All you can do is continue to reinforce the lesson and make sure he learns from it. Sometimes good kids make shit decisions, and all we can do is let them learn from their mistakes and accept the consequences from those mistakes.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. How awful for you.
I am generally always the first to suggest a psychologist, and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt here, but it might be an over-reaction to pretty typical and age appropriate bad decision making. IME, and I have spent hundreds of hours with hundreds of boys in scouting over the years, this is pretty typical tween braggadocio.
I know a lot of kids who were really into knives at that age. Collected them, brought them along to forbidden places much as some kids shoplift as sport. They tended to be really nice kids- really bright, too- but were often smaller than their peers or less physically mature. To a man, they all grew up to be decent and responsible human beings.
I wasn't there, but it feels like he didn't lunge at the rule-boy with the knife, he just had a cocky comeback. Unfortunately schools and police take a zero tolerance approach to a 2" pocket knife a mom would leave out where a kid could find it as they would a KA-BAR. So, I expect you'll go through the motions with the courts which will be quite the teaching moment. I wouldn't punish further, but we would be discussing.
I would absolutely not turn to the school psychologist for a number of reasons. For one thing, most are not trained as clinical psychologists- they are often Master's level individuals who are in place because of IDEA's special education mandates- they're in schools to evaluate for educational need and oversee IEPs. Plus, if there is some sort of mental health issue with your son that led to this behavior (and I would bet there isn't), you mightnot want to be sharing that with the school district. Your pediatrician can refer you to a clinic or private practice.
Good luck.
Just thought I'd highlight all the dumbfuckery of your post because its so incredibly off the mark.
Over reaction? He threatened someone with a knife. Who cares how small it was? It could still kill someone.
Pretty typical tween braggadocio? Are we giving dumb behavior a cutesy name now and letting it pass because its "just tween behavior?"
Bringing along knives to forbidden places is wrong no matter how nice or smart a kid is.
Unfortunately schools and police have a zero tolerance policy? Unfortunately? That should be universal because its a big fucking deal. GTFO.
Not share with the school? Some things need to be shared so the school can help in the future and be aware of any future potential issues.
If the school took your suggested approach, I think they would have a lawsuit on their hands.
Op, I'm sorry. I would be pretty harsh in my punishment and seeking a therapist to figure out if there is more going on.
Does anyone else think it's insane he's going to court for this? At 9?!
I think the school's punishment was appropriate, and certainly ground him for awhile. I also agree with trying to get to the bottom of why he did it.
I'm sorry. I have a 9 year old son who has gotten in his fair share of trouble (nothing with weapons yet, knock on wood), and it is so stressful. I've cried about it more times than I can count.
Yes, I'm having a problem with this. I have an 8 year old boy and bringing a pocket knife to school because you think it's neat sounds totally normal to me as far as boy behavior. Like, yes, we take it away and talk about it - but Police involvement? Come the fuck on.
That said, if it's a pattern, or he doesn't understand how serious it was - then escalation is appropriate. I'm not condoning the behavior AT ALL. But I still think involving police w/ 9 year olds is insane.
My kid is almost 9 and since preschool, the school has taught kids that 'no weapons' are allowed at school. How do I know that? Because he told me. They can't even bring in pretend weapons to go with Halloween costumes. I would be really surprised if any 9 year old wouldn't know that.
Ok, yeah this is true. My son was scolded by a substitute teacher for making a gun shape with his FINGERS and he wasn't even doing it to BE A GUN. We had a long talk about how schools take this very seriously for a very serious reason and he needed to take the no weapons policy seriously too.