The debate about male OB-GYNs taking place in universities and doctors’ offices across the country has stoked concern and resentment among men and women, creating the ultimate collision of medicine and gender politics.
In the 1970s, women struggled to get into medical school and to find doctors who wouldn’t judge their sex lives, said Wendy Kline, a history of medicine professor at Purdue University. Activists viewed the male-run healthcare system as a gear of the patriarchy, she said.
Now 82% of residents training to be OB-GYNs are women. The proportion of female gynecologists in practice nationwide is expected to hit two-thirds by 2025.
Carol Weisman, a Penn State public health and OB-GYN professor, lauded women’s success in the field and balked at efforts to recruit men. She pointed out that OB-GYN remains one of the hardest specialties to break into each year.
“It seems to me that there’s some residual sexism in that view, that we need men to be sure that we’re training the best possible people for our specialty. I find that very odd,” she said.
Indeed, some female OB-GYNs said focusing on gender reduces women’s skills to biology and doesn’t account for transgender or gender-nonconforming patients who might not relate to female doctors simply because of the physician’s gender.
“I’ve never had kids, so what do I know about the pain of childbirth?” said Dr. Alison Jacoby, an OB-GYN who is part of UC San Francisco’s Center of Excellence for Transgender Health. "It has everything to do with communication and empathy, and less on the gender of the provider.”
Post by mrs.jacinthe on Mar 8, 2018 9:25:14 GMT -5
I have been to both, and while the initial visit with the male GYN was more awkward, he was definitely more gentle when rooting around than any female doctor I've had before or since. I think that NOT having the same parts made him more careful. Women are more likely to be like "well, it was fine for me, so I'm sure it's fine for her."
It is very hard for male students to even get the basic training when they are on OBGYN rotations. Patients often refuse them even coming into the room.
I mean part of this is our culture. If we didn’t have to fear men violating us so much we might be more open to allowing male doctors into our more intimate procedures.
I have had both male and female OBs. Both were great. But I am not surprised by this article.
Post by katieinthecity on Mar 8, 2018 9:27:03 GMT -5
This was an interesting read, because I often see in the women's online groups I am in, a strong preference for female OB/Gyn providers.
I personally have seen both men and women OB/Gyns and am happy to see an empathetic, experienced, qualified doctor, regardless of gender, though I also acknowledge that I am privileged to not have any sexual trauma in my past that would weigh in my decision.
While I understand the inclination to believe that a woman doctor will be more understanding because of common experiences, I also have concerns about that assumption - that all women's experiences are the same. The article points to trans* and non-conforming patients, but there are also trans* and non-conforming practitioners, not to mention women doctors who can't or don't want to have children, for whatever reason, or don't have a uterus so have never had a period, etc.
And from a research perspective (e.g., curing cancer, ART/RE) certainly having the best minds regardless of gender is a bonus - but a doctor cannot enter research without having the clinical experience necessary to become board certified in the field.
I have been to both, and while the initial visit with the male GYN was more awkward, he was definitely more gentle when rooting around than any female doctor I've had before or since. I think that NOT having the same parts made him more careful. Women are more likely to be like "well, it was fine for me, so I'm sure it's fine for her."
This has been my experience as well. I had a male perform my colposcopy recently and he was SO TIMID. And because of it he kept not getting a good enough biopsy. OMG JUST HURT ME FOR ONE SECOND AND BE DONE. I have had 6 colposcopies so I am unfortunately somewhat of an expert on how these things should go.
My male OB that delivered my first child was similar. Super gentle while the females were a bit more “let’s get up in here and get this over with.”
I have always preferred a male gynecologist for inexplicable reasons. Until my male gynecologist wouldn't entertain the idea of permanent birth control. So I ditched him for a female doctor who is decidedly pro woman and pro women making their own reproductive decisions.
I’m not going to fault women for having a preference for female OBGYNs or doctors in general. We aren’t that far removed from women being treated horribly and inhumanly during L&D. And we live in a time where the Dr Larry Nessler’s of the world are allowed to abuse female patients for decades. Does this article get into all that?
That said, I’ve had some amazing male OBs. Both my deliveries were with awesome male doctor’s and my D&C for the miscarriage was handled by the most wonderful and kind male doctor.
While I agree that having the best minds is good for research progress, I just can't get too upset on behalf of the men here. I think the patient's right to have a doctor she feels comfortable with is more important, and I also haven't seen a lot of historical evidence that male doctors were clamoring to allow more women into their profession through the ages. I'm fine letting them fight their own fight here and worrying about bigger things.
Post by turnipthebeet on Mar 8, 2018 9:38:52 GMT -5
So female OB/GYNs can expect a decrease to their salaries I suppose. Isn't that how this usually goes when men leave a field?
For me, a doctor's sex has never been an indicator of the level of care; there are good drs and bad drs. But for people who have experienced trauma, it's great to have options.
I have had some great male OB/GYNs and both of my children were delivered by men. I think it would be a shame if I missed out on good experiences with these doctors because they were discouraged from becoming OBs. I understand why some women are reluctant to see male doctors though.
This might be weird but I actually have a stronger preference for a female in other specialties. I’d rather see a woman psychiatrist, GP, etc, but I really don’t care for a gynecologist. I feel like they are less likely to “woman stuff,” “hormones,” “well you had a baby...” and so on unlike some of the male doctors I’ve seen in other specialties.
I'm team female OBGYN. My PCP is also female, also a decision I made intentionally. At this point in my life, I might be okay with a male PCP, but I chose these doctors when the sexual trauma was still reasonably fresh and that definitely impacted my decisions. And I like my doctors, so I have no reason to change right now. I've come a long way mentally and emotionally in that regard, but I'm still not sure I'd be okay with a male OBGYN.
I read this article last night, and really, my only concern with this is that we'll see OBGYN salaries fall since women's work tends to be devalued. I just otherwise can't feel compelled to care about the poor little men who dominate almost all other areas of medicine: Outside of OB-GYN, fewer than a third of doctors are women. Women might dominate obstetrics and gynecology, but men dominate 37 of the 42 other medical specialties.
Also this? Dr. Saketh Guntupalli, a gynecological oncologist at the University of Colorado, raised the stakes. “If you exclude 50% of people from anything, think about how much you’ve lost,” he said. “You might lose the next person who's going find a cure for cancer.” I became entirely unable to even when I read it.
It is very hard for male students to even get the basic training when they are on OBGYN rotations. Patients often refuse them even coming into the room.
I mean part of this is our culture. If we didn’t have to fear men violating us so much we might be more open to allowing male doctors into our more intimate procedures.
I have had both male and female OBs. Both were great. But I am not surprised by this article.
when I was in labor, there was this male nursing student who’d been milling around most of the day because no one would let him in the room. I don’t blame any woman for having a preference, but he really was very attentive and gentle. Probably because I was his only patient. Lol. He also looked to be about 13 years old so I’m sure that didn’t help his case much.
And considering that women often don't have a choice to see women in just about any other specialty, I can't be all that upset that they are able to express a gender preference in this one area. There is not a single woman at my orthopedist's office. I've never seen a woman orthopedist at other practices. Due to my job, I'm pretty familiar with a lot of area doctors, and I am not sure I've ever seen records from a woman orthopedist. For many women, their OBGYN may be their only woman doctor.
I've had both male and female OB's I've liked. Currently, my gyn is a male and I adore him.
However, I completely understand why some women have a preference. Many men have a preference about urologists and the like. I know H said he would have been uncomfortable getting snipped by a woman. He just felt more comfortable with a fellow man handling that for him.
“It sends a horrible message to men who might have a nascent interest in OB-GYN that’s promptly quashed,” said Dr. Carl Smith, head of the OB-GYN department at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
I mean, boo fucking hoo. However:
Daniel Spinosa, a UCSD medical student, thinks men should be involved in women's healthcare: "It needs to be something all of society cares about." Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times
Here, here.
Not all fields are going to be 50/50, or even 60/40. I don't think that should be the goal, although I don't think men should be categorically shut out either. Is it unrealistic to think that the balance will reach an equilibrium eventually? Maybe it would be 85/15, and that could be ok.
Anecdotally, I always preferred female OB/Gyns until my current practice, which has 2 men and 2 women. I've seen them all now, and liked both men better than both women. They listened better, above all else, and it felt like they made fewer assumptions. There was less "suck it up, cupcake" vibe.
My brother is a male nurse and had to do a rotation through L&D in his training. He said it was really difficult to meet his minimum requirement of assisting with one vaginal delivery and one c-section. He always looked for moms who were not first timers for the best chances of being allowed to stay in the room.
My brother is a male nurse and had to do a rotation through L&D in his training. He said it was really difficult to meet his minimum requirement of assisting with one vaginal delivery and one c-section. He always looked for moms who were not first timers for the best chances of being allowed to stay in the room.
This is so true. I know for me, I was much more reserved the first time around. By kid 2, I was like "the more the merrier! Bring in whoever you want!"
My brother is a male nurse and had to do a rotation through L&D in his training. He said it was really difficult to meet his minimum requirement of assisting with one vaginal delivery and one c-section. He always looked for moms who were not first timers for the best chances of being allowed to stay in the room.
This is so true. I know for me, I was much more reserved the first time around. By kid 2, I was like "the more the merrier! Bring in whoever you want!"
Interesting. My first experience was so traumatizing and I was so cranky and sick of answering the same questions over and over for 2 fucking days that I plan to flat out refuse to let students (male or female) participate in my care for my next pregnancy. I know they have to learn, but they can learn on someone who's not one step away from a breakdown. I don't think I'd have a problem with a male OB resident, as the one who was on duty during my labor and delivery was good, but students of any kind are going to be barred from my room.
A friend posted this on Facebook and this was my reply:
This is a good conversation to have. I don't think you can say a doctor is better or worse solely based on their sex or gender. It would be interesting to see if there are any patient satisfaction studies done with physicians who are transgender and their patients don't know.
I try to be a trauma informed provider whenever I'm with a patient, especially when doing exams in vulnerable areas. I think it says much to our misogynistic culture in the U.S. that women would prefer a female doctor due a trauma history and I don't think we can fault women for that.
Anecdotally of all the ob-gyn fellowship specialists (urogyn, gyn-onc, mfm, rei) that I know, they all seem to be male dominated. So it still seems that even in a woman dominated field men are getting the more prestigious and leadership positions.
Lastly, I don't see many people writing articles about women not being welcomed in the field or urology. I have definitely had male patients say they only want a male in the room when discussing urologic issues. That field historically has very few women with it's overall generally better lifestyle and satisfaction among providers and it doesn't seem that anyone cares that there aren't women represented in the field.
Anecdotally of all the ob-gyn fellowship specialists (urogyn, gyn-onc, mfm, rei) that I know, they all seem to be male dominated. So it still seems that even in a woman dominated field men are getting the more prestigious and leadership positions.
Yep! The article says men going into OBGYN are more likely to subspecialize. That makes me have even less sympathy for them. Oh, you want to specialize in gynecological cancers? I'm sure you can find some sort of other cancer specialty.
Lastly, I don't see many people writing articles about women not being welcomed in the field or urology. I have definitely had male patients say they only want a male in the room when discussing urologic issues. That field historically has very few women with it's overall generally better lifestyle and satisfaction among providers and it doesn't seem that anyone cares that there aren't women represented in the field.
YES! The article points out that 37 of 42 specialties are dominated by men and men still make up 2/3 of physicians. So maybe when we have something approaching gender parity in those areas, we can be concerned about this one. But OF COURSE these men are suddenly concerned about gender parity when it affects them.
In related news, has anyone seen my violin? It's so tiny that I keep losing it.
My brother is a male nurse and had to do a rotation through L&D in his training. He said it was really difficult to meet his minimum requirement of assisting with one vaginal delivery and one c-section. He always looked for moms who were not first timers for the best chances of being allowed to stay in the room.
My (male) cousin is a nurse and had a similar issue. When I had AJ, the OB resident had a male med student with her and asked if it was okay if he was in the room as much as possible. That poor guy let out an audible sigh of relief when I was all "Sure! As long as he doesn't get to cut or stitch anything, we're cool." (that was a med student thing in general, not due to his gender) Apparently a few OB patients had refused to have a male student in the room.
I discriminate like a MOFO when I pick my Doctors. They better be Black and have studied at an HBCU. None of this bothers me.
I prefer black doctors too, but I did make the mistake of picking an OB who looked way too much like my dad to be comfortable. That was unpleasant. I got over it though because he was a great doctor.
I actually am ok with white male doctors, but I’ve had bad experiences with male doctors who are non-white (but not black). However, I’m lucky to have had minimal health issues over the years, so I’d probably be less choosy if I needed serious specialty care.
Susie, my hospital didn't have student nurses during labor but they had them in the recovery wing and the nursing coordinator or whoever was SO Excited when I said I didn't mind the male student nurses coming in. She said it was so hard to find women to agree (and this was my first birth.)
As to this article - meh. If women prefer female OBs and more women want to be OBs than in previous years - I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
Re: obstetrics in general, it's also unique out of the medical specialties because all the patients are one sex. I can't think of another specialty where every patient would be the same sex. So I don't find it surprising that its becoming female dominated.
While I agree that having the best minds is good for research progress, I just can't get too upset on behalf of the men here. I think the patient's right to have a doctor she feels comfortable with is more important, and I also haven't seen a lot of historical evidence that male doctors were clamoring to allow more women into their profession through the ages. I'm fine letting them fight their own fight here and worrying about bigger things.
You've basically voiced what I was was thinking.
OB/GYN (and medicine in general) was almost exclusively male for a long time and no one batted an eyelash, but on the flipside when women become more represented this is suddenly a concerning issue?
This is so true. I know for me, I was much more reserved the first time around. By kid 2, I was like "the more the merrier! Bring in whoever you want!"
Interesting. My first experience was so traumatizing and I was so cranky and sick of answering the same questions over and over for 2 fucking days that I plan to flat out refuse to let students (male or female) participate in my care for my next pregnancy. I know they have to learn, but they can learn on someone who's not one step away from a breakdown. I don't think I'd have a problem with a male OB resident, as the one who was on duty during my labor and delivery was good, but students of any kind are going to be barred from my room.
Your experience is totally different. If I had gone through what you did, I would have been a totally different second time pregnant woman. You went through hell!
A friend posted this on Facebook and this was my reply:
Lastly, I don't see many people writing articles about women not being welcomed in the field or urology. I have definitely had male patients say they only want a male in the room when discussing urologic issues. That field historically has very few women with it's overall generally better lifestyle and satisfaction among providers and it doesn't seem that anyone cares that there aren't women represented in the field.
And, in my opinion, there SHOULD be a push for more women in urology because there are female urology patients obviously who may prefer a female urologist. And it is a lucrative profession with much better hours than obstetrics. but there aren't long winded articles about that issue.
Lastly, I don't see many people writing articles about women not being welcomed in the field or urology. I have definitely had male patients say they only want a male in the room when discussing urologic issues. That field historically has very few women with it's overall generally better lifestyle and satisfaction among providers and it doesn't seem that anyone cares that there aren't women represented in the field.
I was just thinking about this.
On a different note, I think that incidentally and not necessarily due to my choice, all of my OB/GYNs have been male. The on call OB delivered DS and she was female and yelled in my face about needing to push harder in my unmedicated very fast vaginal birth, so that didn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies. My current GP is a female and I adore her. Anecdotes!