And if it is truly a bad thing that men are only 40% of OBGYNs and not supermajority like their god given right to be in all major professions, then the males in the profession need to auto reflect on why this has happened and what can be done to correct the wrongs that have occurred to women over the centuries at their hands.
Post by UMaineTeach on Mar 8, 2018 11:50:14 GMT -5
I worry that OB/gyn will be seen as ‘woman’s work’ and the specialists will get less pay and less respect should men bail.
I’ve only been to an actual OB/GYN once. It was a woman and she was so rude. “I don’t know why your doctor sent you here, he should know that the appearance of your cervix is normal” and unprompted said the 32 was getting old and I’d better have kids soon.
I see my PCP for annuals. He does a good job, but I hate the ceremony with a male. As someone with no sexual trauma. Bringing in the female PA to supervise, explaining each step, the this might be cold, the this might pinch a little. It’s almost over. Plus the use of a disposable speculum, throwing out all that plastic for a two minute procedure when sterilized metal would be just fine.
I much prefered the sexual health clinic with the revolving door of NPs. In,out, done. No conversation. Toss the metal speculum in a bucket of used instruments to be cleaned. But my PCP looked so sad when I told him I planned to go to the woman’s clinic at the local, affiliated hospital I gave him a chance.
Do women not have urology issues? I wish men had a better understanding of the trauma that happens to the vagina after a vaginal birth.
Yes women have urology issues. It's a fellowship. You can go through it via obgyn or urology fellowship. The field is technically called female pelvic medicine and reconstructive surgery. But they deal with things such as incotinence and prolapse.
I discriminate like a MOFO when I pick my Doctors. They better be Black and have studied at an HBCU. None of this bothers me.
And on that note, I just signed on with an OBGYN who is out of Howard. I’d been searching for weeks to find a Black OBGYN, in the South Orange County Area. Finding her was like manna from heaven.
Aside from my Dentist, and my Eye Doctor, all my medical professionals, I believe since my birth, have been WOC. I have no plans to change that practice.
I finally found a Black dentist! It's so hard to get an appointment, damn dentists and their great lifestyle so no evening or weekend appointments. But I refuse to leave him!
My first ob was a white woman in a large practice (half male/half female). She was condescending when I was miscarrying, so I switched to a single doctor practice. He (black male) listened, gave me time to process, and performed my D&C on my schedule (early evening so I didn't have to miss teaching any classes). He delivered both of my boys (in the middle of the night on holiday weekends. He had to drive back from across the state for one of them). Bonus points--despite being extremely tall (with extremely large hands), his exams were not as painful as the first pap/exam I had with an older female PCP who didn't care what pain she inflicted. The only time he has ever caused me pain was with my IUD insertion.
On the flip side, I won't see the male PA at my PCP clinic because he didn't address any questions to me when my husband accompanied me to a visit for a UTI (H didn't want me to drive the 15 miles with the level of pain I was in, which subsided as we drove). The PA also was uncomfortable when I asked about the chances my IUD was causing issues that led to the UTI and minimized my pain when I asked for prescription AZO. However, my husband ended up seeing him later for an ear infection and got the same attitude, so maybe it wasn't gender related. The PA still didn't ask me the questions about him though.
I don't think gender of the practitioner had much to do with either experience--but I think awareness of women's health issues and compassion did.
As an aside, as a professor, I let any and all students work on me (and my boys) when I (and they) was hospitalized for the D&C, deliveries, and my youngest son's numerous illnesses. Kinda awkward seeing the surg tech who was there for my c-section in class next semester and having the nurse who I taught statistics to do my catheter, but whatever. They have to learn and my job is to teach.
I remember way back in the day on the old ML, there was a lady who posted that she was hesitant to see a new OB/Gyn because he was a black male. That didn't go over well. If I recall though, I actually gave her the benefit of the doubt, until she decided to defend herself by telling a longwinded ass story about some old Uncle Rhemus-type character that worked for her family who was like a father to her and would sing her songs in the moonlight as they sipped sweet tea under the magnolia trees. I'm not even exaggerating. Ok, maybe I am a little, but it was one of the best "I'm not racist" defenses I've heard to this day.
Does anyone else remember this? I know a few of you were posting on ML at that time.
I see my PCP for annuals. He does a good job, but I hate the ceremony with a male. As someone with no sexual trauma. Bringing in the female PA to supervise, explaining each step, the this might be cold, the this might pinch a little. It’s almost over. Plus the use of a disposable speculum, throwing out all that plastic for a two minute procedure when sterilized metal would be just fine.
Well, bringing the woman in is also for the doctor's protection. IME it's not standard practice for women, but my female OBGYN also always has a chaperone present for examinations.
As for the explaining things, I think more patients prefer it. I am often hypersensitive during exams, so if they don't warn me what is coming, I will freak. When I was in labor, a couple of times they pushed new meds into my IV without telling me and I could feel it and it burned. The nurses were not expecting that, and they had to make a note to tell me before doing literally anything because I was feeling evvvvvverything.
I love my gynecologist. I want to be her friend, but I figure, once someone has seen your cervix and cut you open, it's really hard to go out and have drinks and gossip. But she is a really talented doctor. I probably would not feel as connected to a male doctor.
I too had a nurse-midwife deliver my second kid, who I wanted to be friends with. I hang out with my dermatologist all the time - I am headed to her wedding soon.
Not related to the OP, but I had my last exam and IUD put in by a male doctor, who was really great with bedside and gentle. It was still awkward since I not only had to divulge I had just (8 weeks prior) had an elective abortion that his office had refused to perform, but I also got to sit through a long IUD insertion as we discussed our mutual friends, the ski trails we had met up on the weekend before, and a fundraiser that we were both working on in the community. I find small communities to have the most awkward doctor experiences since we see each other all the time and often are in the same social groups.
As to the OP - I too have found both men and women ob/gyns who were okay and great (no, bad experiences with any of my ob/gyn visits or births). I have had more women ob/gyns/nurse-midwives do exams, so I'm more comfortable, but I also allowed all students in anytime asked. I too hope that the pay doesn't go down b/c birth is a money-maker for a lot of hospitals and I'd be pissed if the practitioners started getting stagnated wages since they are primarily women, while heads of hospitals and hospital boards start making more money (which are typically mostly male positions).
And on that note, I just signed on with an OBGYN who is out of Howard. I’d been searching for weeks to find a Black OBGYN, in the South Orange County Area. Finding her was like manna from heaven.
Aside from my Dentist, and my Eye Doctor, all my medical professionals, I believe since my birth, have been WOC. I have no plans to change that practice.
I finally found a Black dentist! It's so hard to get an appointment, damn dentists and their great lifestyle so no evening or weekend appointments. But I refuse to leave him!
Nice! My (former) black dentist is my alcoholic BIL, so clearly I have to find someone new. Anyway...
My daughter had this awesome pediatric dentist who was a black lady about my age. It was awesome, and N loved her. She moved to a practice about an hour away, so we tried out the young white guy who replaced her, and as soon as he didn't know who Princess Tiana was, N refused to cooperate. Lol. I guess all trust was lost at that point. Now I just drive to the new practice, which coincidentally is all black and owned by a guy I went to college with. It's worth the trip for sure. Representation matters. Especially to kids.
I remember way back in the day on the old ML, there was a lady who posted that she was hesitant to see a new OB/Gyn because he was a black male. That didn't go over well. If I recall though, I actually gave her the benefit of the doubt, until she decided to defend herself by telling a longwinded ass story about some old Uncle Rhemus-type character that worked for her family who was like a father to her and would sing her songs in the moonlight as they sipped sweet tea under the magnolia trees. I'm not even exaggerating. Ok, maybe I am a little, but it was one of the best "I'm not racist" defenses I've heard to this day.
Does anyone else remember this? I know a few of you were posting on ML at that time.
Not a long time MLer, so no. But I have laughed at two of your posts today and my officemate just asked "What's so funny, today?"
Do women not have urology issues? I wish men had a better understanding of the trauma that happens to the vagina after a vaginal birth.
They absolutely do. Urologists deal with sexual dysfunction in women, for example.
But I can understand why a woman would want to go to a woman for that (and a man to a man). Not always, but I understand.
And from my urologists friends, they say that MOST of their business is kidney stones and snipping men.
I unfortunately know women have urology issues. (I birthed two big babies so I’m aware lol). I was making a joke. There were comments above that it is hard for women to get into urology and that seems so sad given what happens to women in birthing.
They absolutely do. Urologists deal with sexual dysfunction in women, for example.
But I can understand why a woman would want to go to a woman for that (and a man to a man). Not always, but I understand.
And from my urologists friends, they say that MOST of their business is kidney stones and snipping men.
I unfortunately know women have urology issues. (I birthed two big babies so I’m aware lol). I was making a joke. There were comments above that it is hard for women to get into urology and that seems so sad given what happens to women in birthing.
I'm with you and the big baby issues. A ten pounder does some damage.
It is very hard for male students to even get the basic training when they are on OBGYN rotations. Patients often refuse them even coming into the room.
I mean part of this is our culture. If we didn’t have to fear men violating us so much we might be more open to allowing male doctors into our more intimate procedures.
I have had both male and female OBs. Both were great. But I am not surprised by this article.
Well, bringing the woman in is also for the doctor's protection. IME it's not standard practice for women, but my female OBGYN also always has a chaperone present for examinations.
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I completely see both sides of the chaperone. Same reason I don’t help a child in the bathroom with the door closed without a second person or manage extreme behavior that may lead to restraint without another trained staff.
And I understand they have to make people as comfortable as possible and that involves explaining the procedure. I’m just more of let’s get this over ASAP, so do what you have to do type patient.
And if it is truly a bad thing that men are only 40% of OBGYNs and not supermajority like their god given right to be in all major professions, then the males in the profession need to auto reflect on why this has happened and what can be done to correct the wrongs that have occurred to women over the centuries at their hands.
This.
Being one of the olds, I can remember when we were told that cramps were "all in our heads" and you got zero treatment. And sexual dysfunction? "Take a hot bath and have a glass of wine." A little while ago it was posted here that it took women an average of ~9 years to get a diagnosis of endometreosis, largely because we're seen as weak complainers when it comes to pain.
So no, not every woman will be a fantastic OB/GYN, but so many male of the profession blew off our concerns/complaints for decades that now it's time to give those who might have a better understanding a chance.
Also, after putting me through a few different exams to find the cause of 5 years of constant spotting, he asked if it was really that big of a deal. I was later diagnosed with PCOS and endometriosis and the spotting stopped after my laparoscopy.
The fact threat you didn't bitch slap this doctor for asking that question makes you a saint. Seriously, dude, let's see thou bleeding regularly from anywhere every single day for a month or two and see how you feel.
They absolutely do. Urologists deal with sexual dysfunction in women, for example.
But I can understand why a woman would want to go to a woman for that (and a man to a man). Not always, but I understand.
And from my urologists friends, they say that MOST of their business is kidney stones and snipping men.
I unfortunately know women have urology issues. (I birthed two big babies so I’m aware lol). I was making a joke. There were comments above that it is hard for women to get into urology and that seems so sad given what happens to women in birthing.
And women can make a killing in urology. My brother did his residency with a woman (one woman) and she got an offer post residency for close to a million a year. At a random hospital that she just stopped at "to see if they had openings." so there's a demand, clearly, lol. (he didn't do a fellowship or anything, just a urology residency). But I think the general perception is that urologists deal with penises, so men are urologists. And surgery in general is male dominated, so with those two factors its going to skew more male. But I wish there was more of a push for women to get into it. I've never been to medical school so I cant say why women don't choose it, but I think in general its hard to break into a male dominated field, and I imagine with medicine its even harder.
I see my PCP for annuals. He does a good job, but I hate the ceremony with a male. As someone with no sexual trauma. Bringing in the female PA to supervise, explaining each step, the this might be cold, the this might pinch a little. It’s almost over. Plus the use of a disposable speculum, throwing out all that plastic for a two minute procedure when sterilized metal would be just fine.
Well, bringing the woman in is also for the doctor's protection. IME it's not standard practice for women, but my female OBGYN also always has a chaperone present for examinations.
As for the explaining things, I think more patients prefer it. I am often hypersensitive during exams, so if they don't warn me what is coming, I will freak. When I was in labor, a couple of times they pushed new meds into my IV without telling me and I could feel it and it burned. The nurses were not expecting that, and they had to make a note to tell me before doing literally anything because I was feeling evvvvvverything.
Yeah, the attendant is more for his protection. At a university hospital there’s always a fellow/resident/med student/note taker so I never even thought about the other person in the room, but when I went to a small practice and saw a female NP, there was always someone in the room too. Same at the dermatologist when they do a full body check.
Also, after putting me through a few different exams to find the cause of 5 years of constant spotting, he asked if it was really that big of a deal. I was later diagnosed with PCOS and endometriosis and the spotting stopped after my laparoscopy.
The fact threat you didn't bitch slap this doctor for asking that question makes you a saint. Seriously, dude, let's see thou bleeding regularly from anywhere every single day for a month or two and see how you feel.
I was shocked. And it was my follow up after a saline sonogram that was honestly a terrible experience. The MD doing it (not my doctor) was having trouble getting the catheter through my cervix and I was crying from the pain. I walked out of the room into the waiting room and burst into tears because they didn't find anything after all of that. I just wanted a fucking answer. So I'm right there with you on how I didn't slap him!
He also told me that temping to avoid pregnancy wasn't a good idea (we weren't actually using it to TTA, we were using condoms) and if my temps weren't showing ovulation patterns that didn't mean anything unless I was trying to get pregnant. Again, I was later diagnosed with PCOS. So yes, it did mean something. I see an endocrinologist for that now.
A little while ago it was posted here that it took women an average of ~9 years to get a diagnosis of endometreosis, largely because we're seen as weak complainers when it comes to pain.
So no, not every woman will be a fantastic OB/GYN, but so many male of the profession blew off our concerns/complaints for decades that now it's time to give those who might have a better understanding a chance.
My endometriosis pain was ignored as drug seeking and just “my body changing after weight loss surgery”. I want that Meryl gif inserted in here because I was like YESSSS!!!
So for a related field, reproductive endocrinology, I think the trend is more female residents and students as well. In that case, it's hard to say if practitioners are first attracted to the endocrinology aspect or the fertility aspects. Perhaps it used to be the former, but is trending to the latter? Plus, my experience is anecdotal, but in my current practice, there are 5 doctors, and only one is a woman. But literally every student they've brought through when I'm there has been a woman, as well as the entire staff of nurses and ultrasound techs (more commonly woman-dominated fields, though).
I actually spent a decent amount of time trying to get my husband to go into reproductive endocrinology, but he didn’t want to go back and do an OBGYN residency on top of his internal medicine residency. He finds the endocrine aspect of it incredibly interesting though (he’s an endocrine fellow at the moment) and for him the fertility part and bringing babies into the world for people is an awesome bonus to that.
I do wonder, just from these anecdotes from everyone here, if this “situation” has whittled down the field to men who go into OBGYN into the ones who really care about women’s health and are really good at it?
I do wonder, just from these anecdotes from everyone here, if this “situation” has whittled down the field to men who go into OBGYN into the ones who really care about women’s health and are really good at it?
For me it means that the medical professionals (male or female) need to be showing a lot more empathy towards patients and not treating each case as of it is like every other one. This isn’t 1950 where you have 1 doctor in town you can go to. We have choices/options now and I’m so thankful for that.
I'm cool with either men or women as an OB. My father was an OBGYN, so I never really gave it much thought when it was time for me to choose a doctor for myself. I've always made it a point to say yes when asked to allow male med students in for exams, because I know it's tough for them, and I'm pretty laid back about the whole thing.
I did have one male GYN though that I had to "nope" right out on, he looked like Santa Clause, merry crinkly eyes, grey snowy beard, the whole shabang. Santa does not need front row seats to my genitals. Hard pass.
I remember way back in the day on the old ML, there was a lady who posted that she was hesitant to see a new OB/Gyn because he was a black male. That didn't go over well. If I recall though, I actually gave her the benefit of the doubt, until she decided to defend herself by telling a longwinded ass story about some old Uncle Rhemus-type character that worked for her family who was like a father to her and would sing her songs in the moonlight as they sipped sweet tea under the magnolia trees. I'm not even exaggerating. Ok, maybe I am a little, but it was one of the best "I'm not racist" defenses I've heard to this day.
Does anyone else remember this? I know a few of you were posting on ML at that time.
Okay I don't remember it specific to this instance or ML because I didn't go there much, but I vaguely remember a story like this as a defense of some bullshit. It was really long winded and definitely referenced an uncle-type family friend who she was super close to. And I feel like there was a porch involved. Or sitting on a porch.
Post by sugarglider on Mar 8, 2018 12:57:44 GMT -5
I’ll echo the concerns that we may see OBGYN salaries decrease. They already have one of the worst work/life balances of the medical specialties.
I’ve had a few male OBGYNs, with only positive experiences. I loved my OBGYN in NYC. He was super old but really nice and proactive about my care. Then, when I started my current job, I found a practice that looks great near my office that takes my insurance and after studying where all the doctors went to school and their background, I decided on this one younger female Indian doctor....who was fully booked for weeks. Okay; that wouldn’t work. They gave me another doctor, who happened to be the founding member, with multiple Ivy League credentials, a well received book on infertility, and several national television appearances. He was a male doctor, though, so I guess despite his credentials, he was in less demand. (He was a good doctor, too—polite, respectful, etc.) He sadly died in a car accident, and I was reassigned to a female doctor (who is awesome).
It is really rough for female doctors out there—especially once they start practicing. Of my friends who are doctors, one is a general surgeon, and she opted to join her father’s practice rather than do a fellowship because she trusts the training she gets from her dad more. Another is a neurologist, who joined the large medical group her dad is a part of. A third is an orthopedic surgeon who just finished her hand fellowship. She and I talked about choosing female-dominated specialties (hand is the “girly” orthopedic subspecialty, and employment law is a female-heavy legal specialty), and how we resisted them but ultimately had to go with where our passions were, even if they ended up being predictable. The fourth is an interventional radiologist; she was the first woman ever hired in her practice and now may have a sex discrimination suit to bring now.
share.memebox.com/x/uKhKaZmemebox referal code for 20% off! DD1 "J" born 3/2003 DD2 "G" born 4/2011 DS is here! "H" born 2/2014 m/c#3 1-13-13 @ 9 weeks m/c#2 11-11-12 @ 5w2d I am an extended breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby wearing, pro marriage equality, birth control lovin', Catholic mama.
I do wonder, just from these anecdotes from everyone here, if this “situation” has whittled down the field to men who go into OBGYN into the ones who really care about women’s health and are really good at it?
This is interesting.
Nothing in this article indicated that these men are being discriminated against by residency or fellowship programs. Patients are simply expressing a preference. But it strikes me that men who really genuinely want to pursue OBGYN can do so and still have rewarding careers - I've still never heard of an OBGYN who went bankrupt because he had no job due to being male.
Nobody is telling these men they can't go into OBGYN, so I guess they'll just have to work a little harder to get all their clinical hours? Gee, I wonder who else has been told they'll have to work a little harder since...oh, FOR-FUCKING-EVER?