Yes, we're UMC. My BFF is middle/lower middle class. I have family members who are lower middle and below the poverty line/qualified for government assistance. There are people in my own neighborhood whom I am friendly with/have been to their homes who are also below the poverty line.
But most of my friends are at least middle class if not UMC. College or graduate level educations, white collar careers, etc.
ETA: Interestingly (or not) the family (much of it stepfamily) that is below the poverty line are all of my generation or younger. It's very true that we all had parents who were born middle class (even if to "working class" parents, like my dad, they had at least a middle class income), and then our parents' generation were able to maintain the middle class, but their kids are the ones who are falling behind. I thank my lucky stars every day that my husband makes 2.5x what I do. But even if he made the same as me, we'd be better off than the average American household.
ETA 2: I'm using "UMC" to describe us as we fall somewhere around the 80th-85th percentile in income. So not the dreaded 9.9%. But not far off, I guess.
I think it's in my head but I feel like I have to account for my special needs daughter and how much I am paying for medical care. So yeah technically I am in the borderline upper class for my area. But I certainly don't live that if that makes sense.
not to pick on you, but isn't that exactly what makes you part of umc/upper class? that you can afford to pay for that care?
I guess you right. I have to say we young upper middle class. I would say within this year. So while I know we make good money now it wasn't always like this. We both started from the bottom. So for me personally I forget my "economic" class and always think we feel stretched income wise. Especially with our debt.
As for my friends. It ranges all over. However I don't know any of the Dallas socialites or anybody in the top 2%.
According to the posted calculator we are middle class. I also plugged in the area where I grew up which has a much lower COL, and that didn't change anything, so I'm guessing it's a wide range. Anyway, the majority of my friends/ family are around, or slightly higher where we are, but still within middle class. I have a few wealthier friends/ family and a few who are struggling, although I don't think I have any friends currently below the poverty line.
Post by Dumbledork on May 22, 2018 13:52:13 GMT -5
Yes. My family is mostly working class with one sister in middle class and one in, I don’t know, not poverty but struggles to compare to working class.
Puts food on the table with wic and food stamps, somewhat stable factory job. Somewhat stable meaning she’s continually employed, but they shut down production fairly frequently and sometimes for a week or two.
DHs family is much better off than mine. He has an Uncle that’s a state Supreme Court Justice in the South, another that ran a hospital in DC and now works for a state senator in her retirement. I think her husband was an accountant or tax lawyer or something. I don’t know, he’s retired now and doesn’t talk about it much.
I work with kids from a mix of poverty and working class.
I think it's in my head but I feel like I have to account for my special needs daughter and how much I am paying for medical care. So yeah technically I am in the borderline upper class for my area. But I certainly don't live that if that makes sense.
Noooo.
Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck (I certainly wish I had more savings/assets, and many people at my income level likely have more), and the expenses of a household will always vary from family to family. Some have more childcare, some prioritize college education, some have an expensive home, some have $$$ hobbies. Whatever. The amount of money you have left at the end of the month isn't what makes you middle class.
Post by Jalapeñomel on May 22, 2018 13:57:17 GMT -5
Most of the people I know fall somewhere in the MC range, although now that I've moved to NYC, I have a smattering of friends who are pushing the UMC limit.
Oh, I guess I have a handful of rich friends. One just made $500k on a property sale. One goes to Hawaii every year with the nanny and kids. One has her entire life bankrolled by her parents (living expenses in a trendy neighborhood in a major city while she works part-time, at least one major international vacation each year). Mostly it's kind of cool just to remember I know people like that, although there are times it's annoying. The common denominator is that they all have family money. I don't know anyone entirely self-made. My H does, though - someone who hit it big in the Bay Area in the 90s and is retired (in his 40s) with a lovely home in Palo Alto.
My dad didn’t graduate HS and my mom qualified for Medicare this year. I don’t think they ever made much more than $30,000 a year ever and we probably would have qualified for some sort of assistance if they thought of it. But my dad worked steadily and I don’t think my mom realized how little they made compared to other people. I went to college on a Pell Grant and she was floored at how much need based aid I got.
Now we are solidly middle class according to that calculator. My SIL and a couple friends didn’t go to college but have okay paying office jobs. My husband makes pretty good money and I freelance which is sporadic but doable since I have insurance through my husband’s job. I would say most of our friends are solidly middle too, we have a couple that would probably turn upper class if they got married. One couple is pretty well off.
Yes. I think so. We are upper middle class, but I grew up lower middle class. Most of my high school friends are pretty solidly middle class. Don't think I am good friends with anyone at the poverty line and I have good friends from college that are in the 1% or near it.
I think it's in my head but I feel like I have to account for my special needs daughter and how much I am paying for medical care. So yeah technically I am in the borderline upper class for my area. But I certainly don't live that if that makes sense.
Noooo.
Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck (I certainly wish I had more savings/assets, and many people at my income level likely have more), and the expenses of a household will always vary from family to family. Some have more childcare, some prioritize college education, some have an expensive home, some have $$$ hobbies. Whatever. The amount of money you have left at the end of the month isn't what makes you middle class.
The example above is not the best, but I do think it’s important to point out how wealth and annual income can paint dramatically different pictures for the same household and why one measure alone (HHI) doesn’t always cut it, particularly when we’re differentiating between UMC and upper class. Isn’t that at least part of the reason class boundaries remain controversial?
Yes. Even in my immediate family, my dad is somewhere hovering around the poverty line and one of my sisters is solidly UC. We have plenty of family below the poverty line and I have cousins who married into the 0.1%.
Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck (I certainly wish I had more savings/assets, and many people at my income level likely have more), and the expenses of a household will always vary from family to family. Some have more childcare, some prioritize college education, some have an expensive home, some have $$$ hobbies. Whatever. The amount of money you have left at the end of the month isn't what makes you middle class.
The example above is not the best, but I do think it’s important to point out how wealth and annual income can paint dramatically different pictures for the same household and why one measure alone (HHI) doesn’t always cut it, particularly when we’re differentiating between UMC and upper class. Isn’t that at least part of the reason class boundaries remain controversial?
Yes, wealth and income are different, you're right. And wealth, especially generational wealth, can certainly be more beneficial or give a much different view of someone's lifestyle than wage-based income.
Post by gibbinator on May 22, 2018 14:05:24 GMT -5
DH and I are probably UMC, though I don't have any actual regional data to confirm that. (ETA: Found a breakdown for my province, we are just barely upper middle class, 3K more in HHI and we'd be in the upper class, which is peanuts really at that level.)
Both of my parents are below the poverty line, along with about half my aunts/uncles. DH has two cousins we see frequently enough who seem to be generally struggling, one of whom definitely seems to be another job loss away from homelessness. My step-sisters seem to do a lot of couch surfing. The rest of frequently-seen family are mostly lower-to-middle middle class. We are definitely among the handful of "rich" family members.
Just estimating from their jobs or conversations, I would say most of our friends make less money than we do by a good amount (mostly blue collar jobs), but are still fairly comfortable (house, 2 cars) if tight. Only one of my friends is probably hovering around the poverty line.
I can only think of 2 people we're close with that also make 6 figures.
I don't think anyone we spend any amount of time with out-earns us.
So when I was answering the OP, I was trying to think beyond just household income to determine SES - I think HHI can go a long way, but when you talk about the person who makes the same income as you but goes on fairly expensive vacations every year because they have family money - is that the same SES as you? I don't think it is. I don't know the income of everyone we are friends with but I have a general idea of their family backgrounds and general financial picture and we are for the most part fairly similar.
According to the calculator we're solidly in the middle of middle class for our area. Many of our friends are similar or maybe a bit better off, mostly DINKs.
Growing up things varied wildly, from times when we had to worry about the utilities being turned off to a period when my mother was married to someone with serious family money. Now my mother is definitely close to the poverty line, although reaching the age for social security helped her immensely. I no longer need to worry about her ending up homeless. My dad on the other hand has always been responsible and invested wisely. He also married very well so I would probably place him in the upper class.
MH definitely grew up poor. If he was single he would be close to lower income and some of his older friends certainly are.
We are solidly middle class. Both of our households growing up were working/middle class.
Our friends are MC, some lower MC but above the poverty line,, though that may change as DD starts K. We live in a very diverse district (race and socioeconomic status). There is a significant portion of the population below the poverty line in our district.
My sister has been on/off Medicaid and tends to fall below the poverty line. She definitely would if she didn’t live with my parents still rent free.
We have one set of friends who are UMC/UC but they live across the country. I’m not certain of their exact income.
Post by goldengirlz on May 22, 2018 14:15:03 GMT -5
Most of my close friends are people I met at school or work so they tend to be higher-educated, higher-income. Most of them also grew up middle to upper-middle class so we were similar even back in the day. I have much more racial diversity among my friends than economic diversity.
DD’s friends are much more diverse socioeconomically so we do socialize with people from different backgrounds.
We are MC and most of our friends are MC with a sprinkle of UMC. My family is mostly working class or below the poverty line. My ILs are middle class but BIL can't manage money for shit so he struggles financially. We help our siblings a lot.
I think all of my friends and family fall somewhere in the middle class, whatever that means. I don't think I know anyone who is in poverty at this point, and I also don't know anyone who is wealthy. I recently interviewed for a job in the legal field and it occurred to me I don't know a single lawyer IRL. I also don't know anyone who works in finance, don't know any physicians outside of work, etc.
My friends and family are all over the spectrum of the middle class, though, so if we're breaking it down further I probably do associate with a wider range. I have friends who probably make anywhere from around 35k a year to 180k. We fall about smack in the middle of that, and I'd say the majority of the people I know do too - largely because a lot of the people I know, I met at work. But family and friends I've met outside of work have a bigger range, I'd say generally skewing to the lower end of that?
Most of my close friends have less education than most of the people I work with (and myself and my H). My H will be the only person in my extended family to have a PhD. This doesn't always equate to money/wealth but I do feel a bit of a class divide between the people I know through work/my H's graduate program and a lot of the people I grew up with, went to college with, family, etc.
Post by lovelovelove on May 22, 2018 14:29:46 GMT -5
Yes-ish. We are lower middle class for our area. We have family that are below poverty level to solid middle class, our closest friends are mostlikely solid middle class. We know some people in the upper middle & high income, but don't hang out outside of kid activities. We don't know anyone wealthy/top 10% personally.
I am solidly middle class (single mom, teacher). Parents are UMC, both siblings are UC. The majority of my friends are middle-UMC, with a few LMC and a few UC.
So when I was answering the OP, I was trying to think beyond just household income to determine SES - I think HHI can go a long way, but when you talk about the person who makes the same income as you but goes on fairly expensive vacations every year because they have family money - is that the same SES as you? I don't think it is. I don't know the income of everyone we are friends with but I have a general idea of their family backgrounds and general financial picture and we are for the most part fairly similar.
right - there's the pesky Socio of that Socioeconomic. The fact that my friend's dad the welder makes pretty damn good money doesn't change the fact that he'd stick out like a throbbing purple thumb among the people at the private island community down the way. He doesn't have any acquired generational wealth to speak of. He has a really solid pension and a nice 24' power boat and taste for Nascar and steak and terrible beer.
If we want to talk about strictly HHI lines then this is a much cleaner discussion - but this is why we always end up doing this. Socioeconomic class is in fact complicated.
I have a wide cross section of SEC in my friend group and family. I grew up below poverty line and am solidly upper class now. (I guess the new 9.9% group? Need to read all that.)
Most of my family is either still below poverty line or lower class. In-laws are middle class. Some of my childhood friends are now middle class, but started lower class. Another group of friends are upper middle and several are upper class. I also have a couple friends in the 100s of millions in wealth club.
ETA: I appreciate wawa mentioning to socio part. That is more difficult to clearly define in the groups, but I don't think it changes my answer.
According to the calculator on page 1, we're upper class. For NYC, that's surprising but I guess it could be possible. We own 2 homes - okay, we pay 2 mortgages for an apartment and a house - once they are paid off, I'd believe the "upper class" label. But wealth vs. income, I guess.
H's family (parents and adult siblings) are all probably in the same income range as us. My parents are solidly working class now, but started out on WIC when I was a baby. Weirdly enough, the disparity in our youth (mine and H's) hit me when we were watching home movies of H's family from 1988. We did not have the means to have a camcorder until I was around middle school age. I was even told Post-its were too expensive as a kid - I was really into office supplies even as a kid.
Our friends and family range from poor but above poverty level to I'm guessing possibly the 1% (some older relatives seem to be living the life!). I actually don't know. I do know that I downplay our situation a lot with select people, including my own parents. H definitely knows some 1%ers through work and socializes with them often.
Post by captainobvious on May 22, 2018 14:44:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately, no. There's not a lot of SES diversity in my family/friends, if I don't count the co-workers and people on the internet that I interact with (but am not actually friends with). I would say it's all UMC or UC.
So based on this some people need to stop saying they are UMC because they are clearly UC. What is wrong with saying that? And I am rightfully annoyed. LOL