Post by Miss Phryne Fisher on May 22, 2018 14:55:54 GMT -5
Yes, mostly middle class, except my uncle and his wife, she comes from a very wealthy family and she has a huge trust fund...she draws from it more in one year than I will make in my entire working career. She is also now an exec at Classic Major Soda Brand now.
Yes, in both directions. Both family and friends. We spend a lot of time with a hobby organization my husband is a part of and there are people that are very well off and people who are struggling a lot, a couple guys lived in their cars for a while (but are doing ok now!).
We are on the low end of UMC and have siblings who are solidly UMC, but most of them are MC or poorer. A few relatives are below the poverty line.
Our friends are in the same narrowish range: household incomes probably range from 90k to 250k. I have several young friends who are grad-student-poor but not for long.
According to the online calculator we are middle class. I think that is probably about right. My problem with it though is there a huge range here. There is a big difference between the $42,000 and $125,000.
But anyways. Yes we cross socioeconomic lines. DH's family crosses all lines. Mine is mostly upper class. Friends in the neighborhood are either middle or upper class. My best friend from high school is below the poverty line (and yes we communicate regularly and see each other when we can).
H and I are UC. A lot of our family is too, though we do have some family at the poverty level. Friends are mostly MC by income but not wealth, with some lower class and some upper class. That addresses the economic side, at least.
So based on this some people need to stop saying they are UMC because they are clearly UC. What is wrong with saying that? And I am rightfully annoyed. LOL
I'm for sure in the upper quarter of HHI in the united states. But I mean, we're so NORMAL in our modest home with our 5+ year old cars and our frugal vacations...LOL. Besides after saving a significant proportion of our income each month I always feel like there's nothing left. (snicker. Yes I'm just messsing with pixy now)
I never know when people bring this topic up if they're actually asking about quartiles of HHI or actual "class" which is where shit gets murky and people start to mix in their feeeeeeelings. (and education and upbringing and job choices etc etc etc. All of which are actually relevant)
I think “but I don’t *feel* UC” might be my new “but I don’t *feel* like a millennial.” i.e. annoying the crap out of me.
Yes, I imagine the pew research calculator is accurate, because it takes real numbers and means and averages and tells you where you fall. Yes, education, family wealth, etc all play into SES, but if we’re just looking at HHI, it should be a good indicator.
That said, I would have said UMC, but that wasn’t an outcome on the calculator, which gave our joint household income as UC. We definitely cross the lines, as some of my family is LMC. I’d say the friends we see the most are pretty much in line with our HHI. I know maybe one or two truly wealthy people, but aren’t close enough with them to go to lunch, etc regularly.
Post by aprilsails on May 22, 2018 15:27:36 GMT -5
The majority of our friends are middle class. DH and I now fall in the top 20% by income for our city, so we would be UC by definition. Our parents are UC/UMC as well at this point in their lives, and my sister is UMC. His brother is LMC and my brother is poverty line adjacent.
My friends from University break into two groups: UMC/UC and lower class of the starving artist variety. I don’t know how some of them manage. Everyone at work is MC by way of all being engineers and drafters.
According to the calculator on page 1, we're upper class. For NYC, that's surprising but I guess it could be possible. We own 2 homes - okay, we pay 2 mortgages for an apartment and a house - once they are paid off, I'd believe the "upper class" label. But wealth vs. income, I guess.
H's family (parents and adult siblings) are all probably in the same income range as us. My parents are solidly working class now, but started out on WIC when I was a baby. Weirdly enough, the disparity in our youth (mine and H's) hit me when we were watching home movies of H's family from 1988. We did not have the means to have a camcorder until I was around middle school age. I was even told Post-its were too expensive as a kid - I was really into office supplies even as a kid.
Our friends and family range from poor but above poverty level to I'm guessing possibly the 1% (some older relatives seem to be living the life!). I actually don't know. I do know that I downplay our situation a lot with select people, including my own parents. H definitely knows some 1%ers through work and socializes with them often.
I was surprised to see Hs income still put us in middle class in NYC because I assumed we were above, so GTFO at owning two homes and still thinking you’re UMC in NYC. People definitely seem to forget that plenty of residents of NYC are supporting themselves on $10/hr or less. If you can afford mortgages on a city apartment and a house elsewhere you aren’t middle class.
Post by notsocreepylurker on May 22, 2018 15:39:54 GMT -5
I did the calculator. As a single woman (living alone - cat doesn't count apparently) making 75K a year in Houston it had me as Upper. I thought I was middle since I hadn't hit 6 figures BUT it makes sense since I am a 1 person household. Do I *FEEL* upper? No but it the calculator says it then I am.
I have friends in my level, some in middle and family closer to lower (making $40K or less a year in NJ).
Post by notsocreepylurker on May 22, 2018 15:42:34 GMT -5
@tooshort, I agree, we need a YOUR FEELINGS DON'T MATTER disclaimer.
And I am also wondering how tacom thinks she is only UMC. If I am remembering her correctly she grew up poor but is pretty wealthy now due to education/work/marriage. I apologize if I am confusing you with someone else.
According to the calculator on page 1, we're upper class. For NYC, that's surprising but I guess it could be possible. We own 2 homes - okay, we pay 2 mortgages for an apartment and a house - once they are paid off, I'd believe the "upper class" label. But wealth vs. income, I guess.
H's family (parents and adult siblings) are all probably in the same income range as us. My parents are solidly working class now, but started out on WIC when I was a baby. Weirdly enough, the disparity in our youth (mine and H's) hit me when we were watching home movies of H's family from 1988. We did not have the means to have a camcorder until I was around middle school age. I was even told Post-its were too expensive as a kid - I was really into office supplies even as a kid.
Our friends and family range from poor but above poverty level to I'm guessing possibly the 1% (some older relatives seem to be living the life!). I actually don't know. I do know that I downplay our situation a lot with select people, including my own parents. H definitely knows some 1%ers through work and socializes with them often.
I was surprised to see Hs income still put us in middle class in NYC because I assumed we were above, so GTFO at owning two homes and still thinking you’re UMC in NYC. People definitely seem to forget that plenty of residents of NYC are supporting themselves on $10/hr or less. If you can afford mortgages on a city apartment and a house elsewhere you aren’t middle class.
I mean, to be fair, the monthly costs of two mortgages + the maintenance on our co-op is lower than what most people pay for rent for similar sized apartments in much more desirable parts of the city - like anywhere in Manhattan or Brooklyn.
I grew up solidly middle class, but my parents were well-off compared to most of their family and the rest of the town. Many of my friends and family growing up were much less economically secure and/or living below the poverty line. Some of my aunts, uncles, and cousins are still there today.
I am upper class. All of my friends are upper class or solidly middle class. I live in one of the most expensive places in the country, I don't own a home, and I have student loans. I still consider myself upper class.
My ILs are in a lower SES than us. My MIL is probably below the poverty line. Our previous neighborhood was solidly MC. Now we’re definitely becoming more and more insular in our UMC bubble.
Guess I'm the opposite of most here because the calculator says we're MC but I would have guessed we're UMC. Sure we could always use more $ but for the most part we can afford to do most things we want to do without any cc debt.
But honestly I attribute a lot of that to the "evils" of our Union. We pay $0 for any health insurance and $0 for our pensions.
As far as friends and family, most are in the same boat as us, with a few on either side.
Post by formerlyak on May 22, 2018 15:48:25 GMT -5
The calculator puts us in the UC category for our area and I can't say I disagree. DH and I have talked about this and about how lucky we are to have what we have. In comparison to friends in our neighborhood, I think we are still on the higher end. That said, if you asked them about us, they'd probably say we are on the lower end, because while they are taking trips every school break and driving luxury cars and spending tons of cash on lessons and tutoring and the like, we aren't. We choose to save a lot so we can retire when our youngest finishes college and live a fairly comfortable retirement. We also save for college for the kids as well (many of them are banking on sports scholarships which will likely not happen), driving older cars that are paid off and paying off our large mortgage on a 15 year loan. But the fact that we are UC means we have the option to make those choices. When I was a single mom, I was solidly MC and didn't have the option of many of those choices.
Our parents are both in the same category. I think my brother is as well. DH's sister is probably MC or UMC.
Both of us worked in an industry that is known for low salaries and long stretches between gigs for a time, so we definitely have friends who are LMC as well.
Post by seeyalater52 on May 22, 2018 15:48:45 GMT -5
Even in New York City a household income above 200,000 a year is in the top 10% of income earners. I really do not see how that can be anything other than upper class, no matter what other factors you’re attempting to consider.
I get that no one wants to claim they are wealthy but this idea that “everyone” is upper middle class except multi billionaires is really grating and doesn’t reflect the data.
@tooshort, I agree, we need a YOUR FEELINGS DON'T MATTER disclaimer.
And I am also wondering how tacom thinks she is only UMC. If I am remembering her correctly she grew up poor but is pretty wealthy now due to education/work/marriage. I apologize if I am confusing you with someone else.
Post by Queen Mamadala on May 22, 2018 15:56:15 GMT -5
I have friends that are solidly middle, lower middle and upper middle. We fall in the lower range of middle. My mother is middle class and father and stepmother in the mid-range of upper middle. Aunts and uncles on my mom's side are upper middle to rich if counting pensions, investments, etc. My cousins are mostly middle. Only one is upper middle-rich if counting her partner. She's only 29. Working in the entertainment industry helps secure all the monies.
My in-laws are well-to-do. They only associate with people like them. Having previously been a milspouse for many years I was around all sorts of people across SES lines.
We hang out with three other families a lot, one of which is definitely UC (owns a million dollar plus house; HHI at least ~400k+ a year), two of us are in the middle (MC in our HCOL city, according to the calculator), and one is probably lower. Their mom helps them out but they qualify for low income housing.
It's interesting to have such income variety in our group, but all of our parents are doing well, maybe even all in UC on the calculator. We go way back, like HS and earlier.
ETA: We're all in our mid- to late- 30s, with kids, and only the UC family owns a home.
Post by mccallister84 on May 22, 2018 15:58:00 GMT -5
According to the calculator we are at the very top end of middle class for our area (the calculator just seemed to return upper, middle and lower, unless I missed something?). I would have said we were upper middle class. For me, the kicker is I don’t work. When I did the amount I brought in would have put us over the boundary clearly in to upper class. Now, I SAH at home with DD but obviously that is a choice our privilege and H’s income allow us. Our day to day interactions basically center around DD so we spend a lot of time win other single income households with a SAHM who straddle the line between upper and middle class. Family ranges all over the place.
Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck (I certainly wish I had more savings/assets, and many people at my income level likely have more), and the expenses of a household will always vary from family to family. Some have more childcare, some prioritize college education, some have an expensive home, some have $$$ hobbies. Whatever. The amount of money you have left at the end of the month isn't what makes you middle class.
The example above is not the best, but I do think it’s important to point out how wealth and annual income can paint dramatically different pictures for the same household and why one measure alone (HHI) doesn’t always cut it, particularly when we’re differentiating between UMC and upper class. Isn’t that at least part of the reason class boundaries remain controversial?
Well, sure, but if you have an upper-percentile income then you can’t claim to be middle class just because you don’t have family money. It only works in one direction.
In other words, I don’t think anyone is arguing that my H’s second cousin who’s an art curator for a living (and a trust fund kid) is middle class because she makes a paltry salary. But a $300k income isn’t negated by the fact that it’s not supplemented with anything.
I do think wawa and bex raise a good point about the non-economic factors that determine class (like education or family name.) But that distinction is less about wealth vs. income.
Guess I'm the opposite of most here because the calculator says we're MC but I would have guessed we're UMC. Sure we could always use more $ but for the most part we can afford to do most things we want to do without any cc debt.
But honestly I attribute a lot of that to the "evils" of our Union. We pay $0 for any health insurance and $0 for our pensions.
As far as friends and family, most are in the same boat as us, with a few on either side.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe the calculator includes UMC at all. it's middle or upper.
the majority of the people in here saying they're UMC are upper. i don't know why it's such a big deal to say that. we're not far off, so if we WERE including UMC, i would say we fall there instead of middle.
Oh, you're right! I just saw that it said middle and people here were saying UMC so I assumed it was an option too. It says we're in the 53% for our area which is fairly middle, but even if we're upper, I'm ok with that. Like I said we feel pretty damn comfortable wherever we are!