We have a snow day. 2 to 4 inches was predicted. A foot and counting of thick heavy wet snow. Roads are a mess so everyone is home. I'm exhausted from messing with snow and it I isn't even 11am.
Wow! I would be so upset if they predicated 2-4 and we got a foot. I’m so done with winter.
I also wanted to weigh in to agree with the PPs that I wouldn’t take away the Disney trip, mae0111. That seems overly cruel to me. I like twinmomma’s suggestion on some kind of incentive like souvenir money or something, but not the trip itself.
Thank you all. So we have told her she’s on thin ice, and that DH and I have SOMETHING REALLY BIG planned. We told her if there are any more issues - refusing to do homework, or shower, or pick up after herself - she would not participate in the REALLY BIG THING that we have planned. I’m praying it’s enough. We have also threatened to withdraw her from the private school if this continues. I would hate to do it, but I will do it.
To answer some questions, this behavior started about 3 years ago, but has increased in frequency and intensity over the past 6 months. She’s fine at school and in the care of others - it’s just with DH and I. But she will tantrum in front of others if we say no.
Strep test do not indicate PANDAS. Neuropsych testing starts Fri. I need to set up time with her counselor now that she’s had a few individual sessions.
Thank you all for the advice so far, and for listening. This has been very isolating.
Ugh. Came home and went to do her homework with minimal argument. Asked me to check her homework and I found 2 errors - no big deal. She didn’t immediately understand the issue so started screaming at me. I told her she could wait for her dad and he would help her. DD2 is whining the whole time and DD1 screams at her to leave. So I remove DD2 and get screamed at for leaving with DD2 (I took her out to get her ready for a bath and went right back in).
I reminded her about the REALLY BIG THING and she continued screaming.
mae0111- Do you ever just leave? Like take DD2 and go outside, and if she follows you, grab her, put her back in the house, close the door, and just leave her absolutely alone? Honestly it sounds like she’s found an awesome way to make sure she monopolizes all the attention in the house. If you take away the attention, does the behavior stop?
Man, the therapist needs to give you some coping strategies fast. Like an implementation plan that you follow every single time she starts screaming. I’m sorry, but I won’t be verbally abused by my kid. Especially my kid who obviously can control herself when she chooses to control herself. I don’t generally spank my kids, but I would totally make an exception for that kind of behavior.
I am on the same page a @mommyattorney. When my kids were small, I would put them in a room and tell them when they were done and could speak correctly, they could come out. Even now, dd had an attitude the other day because I didn't drop my lunch to help with her hair. I told her forget it, I'm not helping if she cannot ask nicely, and I didn't.
I know I have two teenagers, so who knows what I have coming, but my kids do have a healthy fear when I get mad. If I turn around teeth clenched and finger pointed, they are scrambling to get the hell out of my way. There is no way I could tolerate screaming at me at this age or younger.
I haven’t gone outside recently (too cold, so dressing is required), but I do leave her in her room. She does not fear me, and that’s a problem. I don’t know how to instill a healthy fear. I scream all the time. I take away privileges. I relegate her to her room. Nothing seems to work.
DH really wants to cancel and just go again next year. I AM NOT planning this vacation again. I think we should go, and she loses her trip to Universal for Harry Potter (her special outing with dad). I was planning to take DD2 to Animal Kingdom at the same time. Do DD2 will get her outing, and DD1 will read a book while DH works in the hotel room. DH doesn’t think it’s enough.
@mae011 maybe no screaming. State the consequences, shut the door, that's it? She is getting your attention. Let her scream in her room for 2 hours, that's no reason for the rest of the family not to go about their business. No interaction during a fit. Of course easy for me to say not there.
We only see snow when they say we aren't supposed to. It's a never fail. Predict snow and lots of it and we get nothing. Give us a you may get a dusting and we wake up to tons. Problem is we only get hit every few years so the city isn't set up to deal with massive amounts of snow.
mae0111 - DD had a phase like that. 123 Magic worked - no response beyond physically removing her to her room. She’s a perfectionist so didn’t know how to deal with the possibility of failure. When we got through the freak out phase we worked on coping - we had a list of 50 things to do other than lose her shit from their emotions study at school, we used a hoberman sphere for breathing and I flipped to 98% positive interactions. It changed the focus to what she was doing right, and when she had a fit, there was no interaction. If she came out of her room and tried to explain or ramp up I ignored her like she wasn’t speaking and praised her about something totally unrelated, “I grabbed your school folder and you didn’t even tell me you got 100 on your math test. That’s awesome!”
Now we focus on failing. I set her up to fail and she sees it isn’t a big deal. Little things like yes you can bake, knowing we are out of vegetable oil. She googles and substitutes but before that would have been a huge issue. Or if we are playing Ticket to Ride and she has her route visible I will not hesitate to take the single tracks she needs. We talk about how I thought about not doing that because I knew she needed it but it’s a game and we all have to plan and replan based on our cards and it’s something she has to learn.
It’s a lot of work. But now more habitual.
I think I have food poisoning so am really not patient tonight. The kids cleaned the kitchen and are having a dance party. I’m laying In my bed trying not to die. DH is in Chicago.
rere agreed - I throw her in her room and leave her there, but the interaction happens before that. I’m much better than I have been, but I lose my cool at some point during about 50% of the time.
Honestly I could not imagine speaking to my parents the way she speaks to us and living to tell about it.
Post by traveltheworld on Feb 25, 2019 20:04:47 GMT -5
mae0111, giant hug! Though DS was much younger, he went through a phase like this when he was 4 - 4.5. He was always an explosive child (his tantrum was so bad that we once got kicked off a plane after delaying take off for 30 minutes when he was 2), but it got way worst at around that age. He would scream for hours and actually damaged his vocal chords (had to see a specialist). If I left him in his room, he would come out and try to kick and push me. We started putting him in the garage as that was the only room where there'd be a lock from our side. And it wasn't as if he couldn't control it. One time he stopped screaming, calmly told me that he wanted to talk, then when I unlocked the door, he came in kicked me hard - the level of detachment and pre-meditation was chilling. He'd also have these episodes in front of others - it was mortifying as the behaviour was so extreme. We took him to a psychologist. He had a lot of anxiety issues, and they worked on coping mechanisms. It didn't take very long, and we saw improvements.
Not sure if that's all relevant since your DD is older, but my point is - every parent has moments where you feel like you are failing your child and that things may never get better, but hang in there. Take care and be kind to yourself. We are all just doing the best that we can.
@mae011 maybe no screaming. State the consequences, shut the door, that's it? She is getting your attention. Let her scream in her room for 2 hours, that's no reason for the rest of the family not to go about their business. No interaction during a fit. Of course easy for me to say not there.
This is my move. I refuse to yell - it escalates DD1's behavior and accomplishes nothing. I state my business (you need to finish your homework before you can watch tv. If you need help, you can ask me nicely) and walk away. If she tantrums, I ignore her. I'm consistent and over time, she's figured out that no amount of screaming is going to get me to do what she wants. I teach middle school, so I have a lot of practice at not showing my anger or sadness, and it's really helpful with my own kids too.
I read something really enlightening about this recently. Basically, the gist was a conversation a woman had had with her 10 year old son about the way his brain works at this age. No frontal lobe but a fully developed amygdala. So kids feel fight or flight panic when something is hard or scary and freak the fuck out, but don't have enough impulse control to override that fear. It reframed her for me in a way that allows me not to get so mad or sad or disappointed.
What does she say when you talk to her about it when she's not upset?
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
erbear - when she calms down, her attitude varies. Sometimes she’s very pleasant and acts like nothing happened. Sometimes she remains ragey until she wakes up the next day. Sometimes she just get into this whiny mood and she feels that nothing is fair and she has been wronged because she has to do homework/shower/whatever.
I guess the fight-or-flight thing would make more sense to me if it was happening with anyone other that DH and me. My mom helped her with her project - no issues. I tried to help her THE SAME WAY - screaming. She can control it. And it’s not just once in a while. It’s daily now, sometimes several times a day.
Post by erinshelley21 on Feb 26, 2019 8:42:35 GMT -5
mae0111 I'm sorry that things with DD1 are not improving. I'm with others that I wouldn't take the Disney trip away completely. I think losing the special outing while there is more than fair. It really sounds like its hormones plus a little something else. Some of her actions, like having different reactions to different people helping her, sound a lot like my niece at that age. 8-11 was hard for her, SIL, MIL and exBIL. When she started her period (10.5 or 11 I think) she leveled out a little but not completely. They finally agreed that testing her for ADD was the right move once she stole something from a family member. Her mom is still having issues with her but she's not the most patient parent in the world. MIL isn't having as many. Now, younger niece is doing all the screaming and crying and she is 8. I think hers is for attention.
This reminds me - to not impact the rest of the family I take away imaginary things. Like - if you are totally not doing a certain roller coaster and only the oldest meets the height, tell her you guys aren’t riding it. No intention of ever riding it, so you are not taking away anything from yourself or DD2 because she isn’t tall enough anyway.
This is based on Love and Logic classes - never punish yourself.
Commonly here DD “loses” weekend movies. I hate kid movies, so it’s never a loss. DH takes DS when DD is with her Dad and oldest doesn’t care about most kid movies. It’s SUPER effective and zero net loss.
Make something up if you have to - it doesn’t even have to exist!
This reminds me - to not impact the rest of the family I take away imaginary things. Like - if you are totally not doing a certain roller coaster and only the oldest meets the height, tell her you guys aren’t riding it. No intention of ever riding it, so you are not taking away anything from yourself or DD2 because she isn’t tall enough anyway.
This is based on Love and Logic classes - never punish yourself.
Commonly here DD “loses” weekend movies. I hate kid movies, so it’s never a loss. DH takes DS when DD is with her Dad and oldest doesn’t care about most kid movies. It’s SUPER effective and zero net loss.
Make something up if you have to - it doesn’t even have to exist!
I agree with this. I never take away something that I want to do.
My sister always comes to family functions saying we almost didn’t come because the kids did not behave. Well it’s a family function not a fun event for them and I think that barring illness or something like that than they should attend even if misbehaving because then it affects everyone and we drove in 5 hours to see them. Like I wouldn’t say you can’t see Grandpa but I would say you can’t see your friend.
But yeah something I don’t care about and the kids do definitely I take that away. DS’s currency is TV. DD is a little more fiesty so that doesn’t always work. I’ve taken sports stuff away.
It's supposed to rain for DD's party on Saturday. I have 48 people and the weather is spouting out terms like atmospheric river.
FML.
Am I complete ass if I email guests and ask them to only drop off their big kids that are DD's age? We are still at the stage where the whole family comes to a party, so big kids only would be ~15-20 people - we can totally host that inside.
It's supposed to rain for DD's party on Saturday. I have 48 people and the weather is spouting out terms like atmospheric river.
FML.
Am I complete ass if I email guests and ask them to only drop off their big kids that are DD's age? We are still at the stage where the whole family comes to a party, so big kids only would be ~15-20 people - we can totally host that inside.
You can ask people to drop off. Some parents still might want to stay but I think if they know you then hopefully most will be comfortable dropping off.
k3am- I think that’s perfectly fine. Just be honest and say you don’t have the room to host families indoors and if they aren’t comfortable with a drop off, you totally understand. As a parent, I would actually be happy with an old fashioned drop off party at someone’s house!
Post by covergirl82 on Feb 26, 2019 11:04:26 GMT -5
k3am, I would hope parents would understand if you sent an email to indicate the change. It makes sense to me to plan ahead for the weather and not be caught the day of with trying to figure out what to do with 48 people.
At this point, there not a lot left to take away. She lost iPad, TV, reading with DH (which I HATED to do). I haven’t taken away sports because she made a commitment to the team, but since I’m not coaching next season, I will take that away all the time. We have also threatened pulling her from her school.
At this point, we are starting to have concerns about her behavior at the parks. If she melts down when it’s time to leave, she’s too heavy to drag out. And it’s a legitimate concern.
DHs mind is made up. He doesn’t want to take her. I need to convince him otherwise. This is too big.
At this point, there not a lot left to take away. She lost iPad, TV, reading with DH (which I HATED to do). I haven’t taken away sports because she made a commitment to the team, but since I’m not coaching next season, I will take that away all the time. We have also threatened pulling her from her school.
At this point, we are starting to have concerns about her behavior at the parks. If she melts down when it’s time to leave, she’s too heavy to drag out. And it’s a legitimate concern.
DHs mind is made up. He doesn’t want to take her. I need to convince him otherwise. This is too big.
I mean if you don’t think she can behave at the park and your H is not in board then I can see the concern. What happens if she has a tantrum in the park? I know my nephew is usually better when out and about but did have a terrible temper tantrum in a parking lot once. I don’t think there were a ton of people or cars but he was running from them or running around the parking lot and in the wrong situation it could be a concern.
I get not wanting to replan. But I still don’t see how it wouldn’t harm the sibling relationship to take one child and not the other. A tough situation.
I feel bad because for the most part, it's family friends and a lot of them have siblings who are old enough to understand they're missing a party, but not old enough for a drop off. I'm not signing up for changing diapers that don't belong on my own kid.