Smash the Wellness Industry

[jamaicam]

Jun 11, 2019 16:33:15 GMT -5 fuckyourcouch said:

Jun 11, 2019 15:59:42 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

I have an autoimmune disease and I think the issue there is that there’s a lot of pseudoscience around the link between diet and disease. For example, gluten is absolutely vilified on the internet but my endo and ENT both said the evidence is not quite as black and white as the Internet would have you believe. Same thing with the AIP diet. The ENT even said she can’t recommend it in good conscience because it’s so restrictive, it’s not livable.

So, yes, while wellness is not necessarily about weight loss, it’s propped up by a lot of the same bunk science whether you’re talking about losing weight or healing your [whatever] by the magical powers of your gut.

The other thing that’s so fucked up about having an autoimmune disease is how many people who light up and say, “‘Maybe I have that!” when I tell them. Mine causes me to gain weight so I take a pill for that. The number of people who wish they could have my diagnosis in order to get a “weight loss pill” (which it obviously isn’t!) is astounding.

My endo said the same thing. It’s just not sustainable - and more importantly I don’t feel any damn better following the AIP. but people sure love to tell you about it.

And yes, the number of times I’ve had the convo where people perk up and make it about themselves is exhausting.

YES!!!! SO THIS! 

I am deliberately yelling as I keep having this issue. Oh, X diet or Y diet will solve your health issues. And then they get annoyed when I don't follow their advice but instead choose to follow a medically proven path which includes (gasp) medicines. 

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 11, 2019 16:48:06 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

Jun 11, 2019 16:33:15 GMT -5 fuckyourcouch said:

My endo said the same thing. It’s just not sustainable - and more importantly I don’t feel any damn better following the AIP. but people sure love to tell you about it.

And yes, the number of times I’ve had the convo where people perk up and make it about themselves is exhausting.

YES!!!! SO THIS! 

I am deliberately yelling as I keep having this issue. Oh, X diet or Y diet will solve your health issues. And then they get annoyed when I don't follow their advice but instead choose to follow a medically proven path which includes (gasp) medicines. 

It will also fix my IF.

[seeyalater52]

Jun 11, 2019 17:22:49 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Jun 11, 2019 16:48:06 GMT -5 jamaicam said:

YES!!!! SO THIS! 

I am deliberately yelling as I keep having this issue. Oh, X diet or Y diet will solve your health issues. And then they get annoyed when I don't follow their advice but instead choose to follow a medically proven path which includes (gasp) medicines. 

It will also fix my IF.

@@@

Yup. If I just hate and punish my body more in various ways I’ll be able to get and stay pregnant.

Never mind that IF and recurrent loss have made me hate living inside this body so much that I cant even feel satisfaction in feeding it well or treating it well. But no! I should cut out gluten, or go to yoga or acupuncture, or use essential oils or stand on my head or whatever and if I dont do those things well it’s basically my fault if every single one of my babies dies because of all the things I should have been doing that would make a difference for me just like they did for your roommate’s cousin’s aunt.

[mskitkat]

I do think a lot of the medical/food diet stuff comes from the number of times doctors respond to chronic illnesses with shruggy shoulders. In my case, I went to doctor after doctor for my cramps. My cramps were so bad I would hallucinate and literally try to knock myself out. One doctor finally said I must have endo and bcp was good enough. It didn’t matter bcp would make me psychotic after 3 months. After cycling through every pill on earth, I wanted to get pregnant. My doctor told me that I would have to be off the pill for a YEAR before insurance would cover literally any treatment other than the pill. I turned to food elimination diets out of sheer desperation. It worked for me. I don’t think it will work for everyone, but I do suggest it to people with endo who are similarly at the end of their rope with the lack of medical treatment options available because maybe it will help.

[bronxgirl]

The one time I was happy to be the fattest person in the room was when I was in the waiting room for infertility treatment. Although my doctor never said that my weight was a mitigating factor, that wads such an ingrained belief for me. I was relieved to see so many thin and "normal" weight people having the same issues.

[fumbalina]

Jun 11, 2019 15:59:42 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Jun 11, 2019 14:09:00 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

I know this is kind of the opposite of the point of the article (maybe?), but I wonder if anyone else has had the experience of feeling judged by others who percieve any sort of dieting/wellness stuff as being all about looking thin (comments implying you are shallow or something), when you are trying to be healthier?

I got a lot of comments about how I didn't need to be on a diet last year when I was following the AIP diet trying to heal my pituitary gland. A lot of, "but you don't need to be on a diet" and "but you aren't fat" etc. I totally appreciate that people wanted me to feel better about my body and probably thought they were being supportive that way, but at the same time it was really frustrating to feel like people were blowing off my serious health problem I was hoping to address as a shallow vanity move. (The diet ultimately didn't seem to make any difference for my pituitary or hormones, so I stopped, but that's kind of beside the point.)

A year out, I'm 20 pounds heavier (hormone related?) and so ironically now interested in dieting for the more traditional reason of weight loss. But the assumption that it's about looking good still feels pretty hurtful to me. Regardless of whether this is "lifestyle" or "hormones" or "hormonal changes due to lifestyle" or "microplastics in my diet" or "tomatoes and legumes causing autoimmunity" or whatever, I am seriously concerned about the long term health implications of being overweight and especially of continuing to get more overweight. And my quality of life is already impacted by it being *physically* less comfortable to live in my new heavier and less capable body. It's true that it's also *emotionally* less comfortable in my new heavier body (I was assumed/asked if I was pregnant twice in the last month, which has never happened to me before, and definitely stung), and we could certainly do with less of the body shaming of our society that feeds that, but it would be nice if we could find a way to reject the body shaming without simultaneously blowing off people's motivation to be healthier.

I have an autoimmune disease and I think the issue there is that there’s a lot of pseudoscience around the link between diet and disease. For example, gluten is absolutely vilified on the internet but my endo and ENT both said the evidence is not quite as black and white as the Internet would have you believe. Same thing with the AIP diet. The ENT even said she can’t recommend it in good conscience because it’s so restrictive, it’s not livable.

So, yes, while wellness is not necessarily about weight loss, it’s propped up by a lot of the same bunk science whether you’re talking about losing weight or healing your [whatever] by the magical powers of your gut.

The other thing that’s so fucked up about having an autoimmune disease is how many people who light up and say, “‘Maybe I have that!” when I tell them. Mine causes me to gain weight so I take a pill for that. The number of people who wish they could have my diagnosis in order to get a “weight loss pill” (which it obviously isn’t!) is astounding.

I constantly respond to these types of ideas. I avoided gluten and it made it worse for me because I did have a dietary issue with potato, but that has not done much to help with my thyroid disease. It has done wonders for the quantity of times I run to the bathroom, but it was an additional issue, not the underlying cause. 


I read somewhere a while back that so little is known about how women react to medications is because their hormones change their reactions and so most studies eliminate women as outliers because their hormones interact differently with the medication or recommended therapy throughout the course of their study. Also part of the issue is that a lot of these studies in the past were done at schools that had only white men so the results are more accurate when used on another white man.  

[cattledogkisses]

These last couple of posts are bringing up one of my big issues with the wellness industry that's not related to weight, and that's the idea that autoimmune diseases and other chronic illnesses are cureable, if only you're willing to follow the proper (restrictive) diet. I'm finding too that a lot of times this mindset seems to go hand-in-hand with the vilification of prescription drugs, like, oh if you were just willing to follow this (restrictive) diet you wouldn't need those drugs!

Serious: you know what is a real, important component of wellness for me? Taking my daily prescription medications. Because there is no magic food, supplement, or diet that is going to make my immune system work right again.

It's such an obnoxious mindset, not just because it's based in pseudoscience and woo, but because it indirectly places blame on the individual for their own illness. I did not cause my illness through a "bad" diet, nor am I perpetuating it through the way I currently eat.

There is definitely a predatory side to the wellness industry that capitalizes on the fact that people with chronic illnesses are often frustrated with their doctors, at the end of their rope, and willing to try anything in a desperate attempt to feel better. And lo and behold, whatever your ailment is, there's a diet plan for that...

[wambam]

cattledogkisses - I was just talking to my H about this last night! I decided with my gynecologist to go on HBC for my endo and how I have weird shame about it because so many people say “just do X!” And specifically for endo, the wellness industry says “endo is an inflammatory disease” which, it very well may be. But they follow that statement up by saying your lifestyle is causing the inflammation. They don’t say it’s your fault, but the implication is there. And HBC is vilified for nebulous, “unnatural” reasons.

[pugz]

Jun 12, 2019 4:07:08 GMT -5 wambam said:

cattledogkisses - I was just talking to my H about this last night! I decided with my gynecologist to go on HBC for my endo and how I have weird shame about it because so many people say “just do X!” And specifically for endo, the wellness industry says “endo is an inflammatory disease” which, it very well may be. But they follow that statement up by saying your lifestyle is causing the inflammation. They don’t say it’s your fault, but the implication is there. And HBC is vilified for nebulous, “unnatural” reasons.

Saw this today and wanted to share 💗

[msmerymac]

Jun 11, 2019 19:14:07 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

The one time I was happy to be the fattest person in the room was when I was in the waiting room for infertility treatment. Although my doctor never said that my weight was a mitigating factor, that wads such an ingrained belief for me. I was relieved to see so many thin and "normal" weight people having the same issues.

Same. I've been to two REs and never has my weight been a factor. And I've brought it up. I've actually felt like I've been treated like a human being in the process, not just a blob of fat whose medical problems are my own fault. 

[msmerymac]

My workplace is so toxic re: food. We have people who just bring in massive amounts of food (right now there are scrambled eggs with cheese, steak, bacon, onions, peppers and mushrooms in the kitchen, one memorable day it was 3 types of homemade ice cream), people who get upset when no one eats the food they bring in, people who talk about dieting/WW ALL THE TIME (it was worse when my coworker was on her wedding diet last year). Plus most of us just eat lunch together in the cafe area every day (we're a company of 15 people) so there's always interest in what you're eating. When I was doing low carb (for health/infertility/hormonal reasons) there was a TON of interest in that and whether I had lost any weight. *Sigh*

I've been seeing a nutritionist for almost two years, which has been the most helpful thing I've done for my health and body, IMO. I'm not at my lowest weight, nor am I at my highest. Many times over the last two years (I've been doing IVF on and off during that time) I haven't even been concentrating on my weight, just my health. My nutritionist does ask your goals, which aren't necessarily weight-related, and that's fine. Her philosophy is that no food is a "bad food," and that you can splurge on things if you choose (her favorite food is french fries, she knows mine is nachos), but she helps you figure out what works for you and your body specifically. Carbohydrates, in particular, have been... a journey for me, to figure out what works best for my own body.

[Deleted]

This whole discussion has just made me kind of sad for high school and college harpy. I’ve always been chubbier. I first joined Weight Watchers at age 10. I’ve lost weight before. And every time, I’ve wound up putting it back on plus more. I bet if high school and college harpy had, instead of actively trying to lose weight, just focused on eating more vegetables and finding some exercise I enjoyed, I’d probably weigh a lot closer to what I did back then instead of 50 pounds more.

[Deleted]

I’ve definitely noticed that there is a cultural belief that deprivation somehow makes us “worthy” of being healthy. There is a belief that people who have the “will power” to deprive themselves of things are worthy of being healthy, and the deprivation brings them to a level of enlightenment where they don’t even feel deprived! Conversely, there is a belief that people who don’t deprive themselves are “unworthy” of being healthy. Fat people just have no will power. Or worse, are “gluttons.” If you can’t control your chronic medical condition with this week’s fad diet, it’s your fault you’re still sick.

I know there are a few specific conditions that can/must be controlled with dietary changes, and there is well-documented science that backs that up — I’m talking more generally about the non-scientific hooey that people spew.

[winecat]

I wonder how much is due to hormones? You know, like weight gain is an actual medical issue vs a moral failing?

When I am stressed, I gain weight like it's my job. It doesn't matter what I eat or how much activity I get. When I'm not stressed, I can control my weight much easier. I'm referring to crushing stress, not average life stress. Same thing for my thyroid. If my levels are where I need them to be vs in the "normal range," my weight isn't all over the place.

[twilightmv]

The last thing I want is for this thread to devolve into diet tips, so I’m sharing this more as a mental health thing that helped me. I use an app (clue, but I know there are others) that tracks my menstrual cycles and also stuff like energy levels and cravings and you can make notes. This has helped me a ton in keeping my negative thoughts under control. I noticed there would be certain days where I’d just feel rotten about my body and hungry and blah. I started noting that stuff in the app, so now I can push those thoughts out my mind like “yeah, that’s just cycle day 22 talking. Bitch tries it every month. Ignore her. This too shall pass”.

[raangoli]

Jun 12, 2019 9:37:44 GMT -5 winecat said:

I wonder how much is due to hormones? You know, like weight gain is an actual medical issue vs a moral failing?

When I am stressed, I gain weight like it's my job. It doesn't matter what I eat or how much activity I get. When I'm not stressed, I can control my weight much easier. I'm referring to crushing stress, not average life stress. Same thing for my thyroid. If my levels are where I need them to be vs in the "normal range," my weight isn't all over the place.

It’s entirely possible since the cortisol levels in our bodies will rise in response to the life crushing stress and react accordingly. It sucks.

[Velar Fricative]

I'm late to this thread but I really appreciate reading the perspectives.

I'm in a rut right now and I know my binge eating is a problem, especially since I'm at a level where this is just not "normal" for me. I do want to rule out anything medical for this change in my eating habits, but beyond that, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and cancel my WW membership. I think I just have to acknowledge that this method of achieving a healthier lifestyle is just not going to work for me, even though it worked in the past. I'm a different person with different health needs now and I need to accept that.

One thing I did learn at WW eons ago was substituting the word "exercise" for "movement," as others mentioned. I'm inspired now to just eat what makes me feel good, not assign a moral value to any one food (so if I want to eat a piece of cake for someone's birthday, I will dammit), and I need to MOVE. The latter is so important. When I was moving consistently, I felt so much better about myself even if I looked the same as I did when I wasn't moving. But lately I feel like I've fallen into the trap of assigning a moral value to movement as well, which sucks. Like, I desperately want to run. I loved running when I did it consistently. But I can't because I'm getting checked out for a foot issue right now. But instead of doing something I *can* do until I can run, I just write off all movement because surely walking or water aerobics or whatever isn't as good as running. And I've done this for YEARS. That's bullshit and I'm just going to focus on what I can do that gets me up and moving. So I plan to truly focus on wellness without getting sucked in by the wellness industry, if I can manage to do that.

[winecat]

Jun 12, 2019 10:21:35 GMT -5 raangoli said:

Jun 12, 2019 9:37:44 GMT -5 winecat said:

I wonder how much is due to hormones? You know, like weight gain is an actual medical issue vs a moral failing?

When I am stressed, I gain weight like it's my job. It doesn't matter what I eat or how much activity I get. When I'm not stressed, I can control my weight much easier. I'm referring to crushing stress, not average life stress. Same thing for my thyroid. If my levels are where I need them to be vs in the "normal range," my weight isn't all over the place.

It’s entirely possible since the cortisol levels in our bodies will rise in response to the life crushing stress and react accordingly. It sucks.

Cortisol definitely but the rest of our hormones?  All the jokes about men cutting out soda and losing 30 pounds and women subsisting on whatever low calorie nonsense and gaining.  I'm guessing we don't have a real understanding because of the lack of medical research done for women and on this issue.  Why do we need research when some idiot can write a book? 

I mean, it's hard to fill talk shows and sell books if we make it a medical problem and not a personal failing that the next quick fix will help.  

::: rage :::

[isabel]

Jun 12, 2019 10:30:12 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

But instead of doing something I *can* do until I can run, I just write off all movement because surely walking or water aerobics or whatever isn't as good as running. And I've done this for YEARS. That's bullshit and I'm just going to focus on what I can do that gets me up and moving.

This has been my big realization over the last couple of weeks. Moving is good. Any movement. I don't have to go do a hardcore crossfit workout to do something good for my body. Similarly, if I skip a workout one day, it doesn't mean I've failed and that I should just give up altogether.

Yesterday, I didn't feel like working out, but I ate lunch and then walked a couple laps of this loop around my office building. Normally I would be all despondent today and thinking that I just shouldn't bother doing anything because I've already let things slide. Instead, I'm patting myself on the back for moving my body yesterday. And I'll get outside and do *something* today. I don't know what yet, but I'll get moving and do something that's good for me. And that's enough.

[eddy]

In regards to movement- I have had to untrained myself that I don’t need to go out on a run. I can go on a walk. I love going on walks. But for a couple years I have really been trying to make myself get into running. When I don’t feel like running I don’t do anything. BUt I would have been perfectly happy and healthy with a walk. It is really hard for me to not do that all in or nothing mentality when it comes to working out.

No more runs this summer. I am going on walks. It is decided. Every aspect of it is more enjoyable. I also do other workouts that are more challenging. There is no need for me to be pushing this hard ever single day.

[winecat]

Not to mention, it's harder to burn shit down when we're feeling bad about ourselves.

I'm cranky and pissed. Can you tell?

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2019 10:52:40 GMT -5 eddy said:

In regards to movement- I have had to untrained myself that I don’t need to go out on a run. I can go on a walk. I love going on walks. But for a couple years I have really been trying to make myself get into running. When I don’t feel like running I don’t do anything. BUt I would have been perfectly happy and healthy with a walk. It is really hard for me to not do that all in or nothing mentality when it comes to working out.

No more runs this summer. I am going on walks. It is decided. Every aspect of it is more enjoyable. I also do other workouts that are more challenging. There is no need for me to be pushing this hard ever single day.

This is part of why I think I want to ditch my smart watch (I may need to get a regular watch fixed to make this happen). I need to stop obsessing over how many steps I take, whether I meet my exercise goal, etc. Example: Saturday I spent a couple of hours weeding part of my yard. I did a yoga video that turned out to be mostly meditation based and less movement. But then I walked a mile to the library and a mile back (while pushing 35+ pounds). Plus I did other ordinary weekend stuff like walk around the grocery store, go up and down my stairs 8 billion times, etc. So what if I didn’t get 10,000 steps? So what if I didn’t hit some arbitrary exercise goal? I wasn’t lazy. I wasn’t worthless. I wasn’t bad. I just lived my fucking life and incorporated some healthy activities into it in a way that didn’t cause massive anxiety.

[AJL]

Regarding the whole "10,000 Steps" thing... maybe this article will bring some insight into why it's whooey.

From the Atlantic - You Don't Need to Walk 10,000 Every Day

[abs]

This thread has been so eye opening.

Over the years I've gotten to a pretty good place regarding exercise. I started going to the gym in my college years because I wanted to lose weight. I only went sporadically and never enjoyed it but felt like I should go anyways. Then I discovered what I did like and have kept it over the years because it's something I do just for me and I feel better. Losing weight isn't part of the equation.

I wish I could find a healthy balance in regards to food. I like to eat yet feel guilty for eating. It's hard to just enjoy a meal because I'm worried it will cause me to not fit into my swimsuit or that I'm depriving myself of what I really want or I should be eating a salad instead of a hamburger or you get the point. These messages that health is tied to self control are so ingrained into our culture that it's hard to get away from. Even if you know better it's hard to not believe it.

The fact that so many studies are based upon the results of men is not surprising at all and really enrages me. Also, whoever said that they hate the phrase healthy is the new thin made me realize why I hate the phrase strong is the new pretty. It means in a way pretty is important and that is not a message I want to be passing along. Same with thin.

Anyways it's all so complicated. I wish I could get to a place where I just accept my body the way it is. The older I get the harder it gets and I thought it would be the opposite. I appreciate the honest conversation regarding this.

[just]

Jun 12, 2019 11:26:10 GMT -5 winecat said:

Not to mention, it's harder to burn shit down when we're feeling bad about ourselves.

I'm cranky and pissed. Can you tell?

THIS THIS THIS. When our minds and our bodies are fully absorbed with looking the way we're supposed to, there's not enough space for the things that really matter - whether it's personal goals, or societal.

This is a method of suppression and subjugation of woman

[sillygoosegirl]

Jun 12, 2019 11:50:13 GMT -5 AJL said:

Regarding the whole "10,000 Steps" thing... maybe this article will bring some insight into why it's whooey.

From the Atlantic - You Don't Need to Walk 10,000 Every Day

Because her study was observational, it’s impossible to assert causality: The women could have been healthier because they stepped more, or they could have stepped more because they were already healthier.

This is such a key point. I am a huge believer in exercise and that the human body evolved to move a lot more than we do today, but it is so much easier and more pleasant to move around when you are healthy, and in many cases also when you are thin (not to equate thin to healthy, but for the same level of physical fitness, it is simply less effort--and less exercise--to move a light body than a heavy one, in the same way that it's less work to move an empty box on than one full of stuff). This makes for a huge confounding factor unless the study is very carefully designed.

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2019 11:50:13 GMT -5 AJL said:

Regarding the whole "10,000 Steps" thing... maybe this article will bring some insight into why it's whooey.

From the Atlantic - You Don't Need to Walk 10,000 Every Day

I saw this recently. Even knowing that, I still have this tendency to look at my watch and see how many steps I got for the day and to get upset if I don’t hit a certain number. I feel like my Fitbit was initially good - it motivated me to start walking even when my foot issues were preventing me from running. But I think I might be getting to a point where the mental obsession with it is not helping me and I should just focus on walking to feel good, explore my neighborhood, etc. Like I’ve gotten annoyed that it doesn’t properly track steps if I’m pushing something, and it’s just not helpful for that to be taking up
space in my brain. I still have an old Garmin I can bust out if I want to do specific timed or measured walks or runs.

[cattledogkisses]

Jun 12, 2019 14:33:25 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jun 12, 2019 11:50:13 GMT -5 AJL said:

Regarding the whole "10,000 Steps" thing... maybe this article will bring some insight into why it's whooey.

From the Atlantic - You Don't Need to Walk 10,000 Every Day

I saw this recently. Even knowing that, I still have this tendency to look at my watch and see how many steps I got for the day and to get upset if I don’t hit a certain number. I feel like my Fitbit was initially good - it motivated me to start walking even when my foot issues were preventing me from running. But I think I might be getting to a point where the mental obsession with it is not helping me and I should just focus on walking to feel good, explore my neighborhood, etc. Like I’ve gotten annoyed that it doesn’t properly track steps if I’m pushing something, and it’s just not helpful for that to be taking up
space in my brain. I still have an old Garmin I can bust out if I want to do specific timed or measured walks or runs.

I've been here recently with my running.  It hit a point a couple of months ago where it really wasn't fun anymore because I was killing myself every time I'd go out trying to chase certain times, checking my splits, and comparing myself to old race times from years ago and inevitably being disappointed.  So I stopped tracking and timing my runs, and it's made them so much more enjoyable again.  I just go out, run at a comfortable pace, and relax, instead of beating myself up because I'm not running the same times that I was 15 years and three leg surgeries ago.

[hazel]

@@@@

I've been reading this thread with great interest for the last few days. I happened to see it for the first time after my mom told me about how all these neighbors of hers have lost weight doing various diet programs. Thankfully, she ended it with, "but what happens when they stop those?" Yet I know she will likely join one or do something similar in a few months because she's been a cyclical weight loss woman since I was a child. I've also been trying for years to get her to understand that eating less does not mean she will lose weight.

During our conversation she also mentioned that one of the young women across the street is, "is so small and doesn't have a thing to worry about." I think she also commented on how someone was sort of fat...which I've never heard her use that term before. Recently she confided that she thinks my brother doesn't talk to her anymore because he is embarrassed by her weight. I know this is not true and it made me so sad to hear. He has is own stuff going on, but she has made it about her appearance.

I've always thought that I've done a good job of not buying into the weight loss industry like she has because I've never done any extreme programs. But I've come to realize I definitely have been influenced, just in a different way. I had my son 10.5 weeks ago and I am definitely way harder on myself then I expected I would be. I have never been a small person and totally accept that. But every day I think about how nothing really fits me anymore and I should try to lose weight. I worry about how people will judge me for still carrying most of my pregnancy weight. Such harsh thoughts after my body conceived, carried, delivered, and now nourishes a healthy child! I need to work on changing my mindset to how amazing my body has been for the past year. My goal should be overall health and a meaningful lifestyle. I don't want to still be thinking such negative thoughts about myself 30 years from now.

[Poppy]

Guys, there was a reminder about @ content in this thread.

hazel, shauni27, formerlyak and probably others that I missed, I didn't reread everything.