Post by klingklang77 on Aug 20, 2019 4:41:58 GMT -5
PDQ
Hi. I was going to do an ae account, but I don’t think it really matters much.
Background:
SO and I have been together for 2+ years.
He lives in three different places because of his job. These places are about two hours apart from each other. One of those places is my apartment and he pays part of the rent because he is here a lot, which is fine with me. On weekends he will help his mom (they share a house) because she’s kind of a recluse (I’ve only met her a handful of times; she is the same way with the brother’s wife; she hasn’t gotten over the divorce after 25 years) or we will go and see his father’s side (I’m close with the father) of the family (divorced parents) or he will stay in a really small studio if he has work on Monday at another location closer to this studio. No, he doesn’t have a double life. It’s common in Germany to have a work apartment. But that’s not really the point of this post. It works for us and I get to have some alone time to pursue my interests or spend with friends. I like it.
SO used to be a teacher. He changed jobs about 3 years ago. He is now in IT, computer repair, and he installs computer stuff for schools around the state we live in.
Now the problem:
SO has a brother, M, and M is married to R. M is a doctor and makes a lot of money. R doesn’t have to work and she comes from a rich family of doctors as well. When I first met M and R and R’s parents, I was told by SO that I need to say that he is still a teacher and he doesn’t work in IT as it isn’t as prestigious because you don’t have to go to university here to do what he does. I went along with it and R and I were talking and we talked about how I see him because he works in one city far from my city. I really thought she knew the truth and we were just lying for R’s parents. So I said when we get time because R’s parents were right next to us.
That was a few months ago. On Saturday we went to Austria (his dad is right on the border) for a day trip to the zoo for M and R’s 1st daughter who is three. It wound up being a family thing with his dad, his aunt, me, SO, M, R and the daughter. SO I was talking to R and I guess I slipped and mentioned that he sometimes works in three different cities. I was kind of explaining our living situation and how he will stay with me in my city weeks at a time. Again I thought she knew the truth and the whole lie was for her parents. Her family is involved in some events as well in case you were wondering. They weren’t there at the zoo because they were watching the younger son.
So she seemed surprised and said I didn’t realize that they moved him to different schools. I had an Oh shit moment, and just said yeah on breaks he does some extra work for other schools in the area. He is busy all this month and the first two weeks of Sept before school starts here, so that is what led to that conversation. I dropped it and changed the subject. I told SO and he needs to mention that to M I guess. The rest of the family know about this lie except R and R’s parents.
After thinking about it, I really don’t want to lie about his job. I find it dishonest and his job is perfectly OK. Then I think about the future and we have talked about “officially” moving in together next year, even though he’s with me a lot already and pays his share of the rent and food etc., but how will this lie affect us? Will we have to lie about where we live?
The rest of the day was fine. Probably because R wasn’t there.
If you got this far, thanks for reading.
Would you just let this go and just shy away from it with SO or would this be your hill to die on? SO says I’m making it a bigger deal and being over dramatic.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 5:18:56 GMT -5
I would not be willing to lie forever about my husband’s job.
That’s weird and difficult and puts you in a horrible position. I would also not be willing to continue to be in a relationship with someone like this. This is not some small white lie, this is his work field and a big percentage of your life you’re lying about.
I can (in theory) get sibling rivalry or whatever and him asking you not to say anything until he works up the nerve or whatever, but lying forever? No. Bc then guess what, when you “slip up” bc you’ve forgotten what lie you were supposed to tell, it’s all “your fault”
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2019 5:20:12 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 5:19:21 GMT -5
And of course he’s blaming you and saying you’re the wrong one. He’s the lying liar.
ETA: if he’s the hung up on outward appearances, this is likely not going to be the last time he’s going to demand you lie for him. My mother is incredibly hung up on outward appearances and living a perfect, envious life. She’s a huge liar and we have a horrible relationship bc of it. It’s so much work to be a liar.
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2019 5:26:25 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by W.T.Faulkner on Aug 20, 2019 5:31:05 GMT -5
I could tell you guys weren’t in the US when you said IT wasn’t as prestigious as teaching. lol
I’d tell him you’re not lying about his job to his family anymore because it makes you really uncomfortable and that he should tel them. Why does he care what they think that much?
Thanks for that. It’s the lying that I can’ stand. It’s really made me think twice about this relationship. That being said, I know that we could probably work through it because we have excellent communication. He just takes a while to respond because I likes to think about things before he says it.
We have a christening coming up for M and R’s son, and SO is all worried that I’m going to ruin it and if M knew that I didn’t want to lie, then M wouldn’t have invited me. That hurt. A lot.
Just to clarify, SO didn’t make the lie up. That was M so SO sounded better to R. We just go along with it. I’m sure R will probably flip if she finds out the truth. I know I’d be really mad at my husband if I was made to believe a stupid lie like that.
I don’t want to lie and it really makes me think twice about my SO. I mean everybody lies at some point, but I really try not to. White lies, sure. But this is more than a white lie.
He cares so much because he is always trying to make everyone happy. It is something he deals with in therapy.
I’ve told him how uncomfortable it makes me and I won’t do it anymore. I don’t plan on yelling it out, but I guess I’ll just say yeah when I talk to R if she asks questions. I think this is something that he needs to deal with with his brother. I don’t want to come between them, tbh.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by klingklang77 on Aug 20, 2019 5:50:54 GMT -5
Yes, it his brother’s lie to please his wife. It’s fucked up. At first I was like ok, whatever. When I slipped up on Saturday, I was like OMG I don’t want to deal with this. It made me think twice since we are getting more serious.
Still not sure what to do. He’s a great guy otherwise. He is always there for me, we like the same things, we get along great (fights here and there), sex is good lol, he is great around the house (don’t need to tell him a million times what to do), and we work well as a team.
This is our second issue we have had come up (the first was he was sick for a few months and that was stressful because of all the doctor and hospital visits, but that was no one’s fault). But this issue, man. I am not sure what to do. I can’t see throwing away everything when I do think we can work through it. However, I can see it becoming an issue in the future because he has to please everyone.
I can't imagine being so worried about how my SIL felt about me that I would lie like that. It is not like he is covering up being a stripper or something! 😁 What a crappy situation all around.
Anyway, I wouldn’t break off the relationship, but I do think it might be a good idea for you to attend a therapy session or two with him so he can start working through why he has gone along with this and hopefully decide to come clean. And since you say you have good communication, I would push back hard on anything hurtful he is saying and make sure he understands how much he is hurting you over this.
I’m honestly just baffled by the idea of lying about my job for people who literally aren’t even tangentially related to me (SIL’s parents).
Wait. So you’re not even lying for your SO, but for his SIL?! W.T.F. Nope. Welcome to the hill. Not lying for some other couple’s comfort. Fuck that!
And her parents!
Like, why!?!? I seriously do not understand.
Exactly. I don’t get it either. We haven’t talked today because we are arguing and he can’t argue at work. I don’t blame him for just getting along with his work day. I’m in between semesters, so I have a lot of free time.
I just sent a message saying that I’m not lying and it goes against my morals. I said he can leave me if he wants (saves me the awkward talk), but this is something that I will not budge on since his brother doesn’t seem to think he is good enough (thanks leeham!) for his wife and his wife’s family. I said he can sort that out with him, but I’m going to keep saying that he works in three different cities. This is not my problem.
Wait. So they’re lying about his job to someone who... doesn’t have one? What? And I say that as someone who is 2 weeks from being a SAHM so no judgment that she doesn’t work, but where does she get off judging people who are working?
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 6:25:58 GMT -5
We don’t even know that ILs would judge, it’s the boyfriend’s brother making a giant, shitty, mess and telling his brother he isn’t good enough for his family.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 6:34:16 GMT -5
Op, is your bf’s brother regularly a giant bag of dicks? You’ve been together so long, it would be surprising that this came out of nowhere.
And brothers reasoning is even more stupid just bc you don’t *need* a degree for a job doesn’t negate the fact that your bf does in fact have a uni degree. (Not saying that a degree is the be all and end all, in fact I’m telling my kids that they should look at all avenues, not just college bc it doesn’t always pay for itself)
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
We don’t even know that ILs would judge, it’s the boyfriend’s brother making a giant, shitty, mess and telling his brother he isn’t good enough for his family.
They, SIL’s parents, probably would judge after some conversations that I have had with them. They are real uppity. It’s eye rolling worthy really.
After R had her baby I had this discussion with R’s dad. He was complaining about the birth rates in Germany and I stated that I’m not interested in having children. I said the birth rates will go up because of the influx of refugees and they tend to have big families. He didn’t like that.
Another conversation was when he said, you know I’ve travelled all over the world, so I know a lot about something, I think it was wine we were talking about. I just nodded. I’ve been all over, too, but I’m not going to sit there and have a pissing contest with you. I just pulled the I don’t understand your German card. This is the way SO’s brother’s ILs are like.
After reading this more carefully I think I’d take the approach not that lying is against my morals....but that I am proud of how hard my SO works and how I support him no matter what he does. That I shouldn’t be ashamed of what he does for a living. It sounds like you guys make the separation work and that you are both ok with it, but it is a sacrifice.
He is upset with you. Is it because he wants to hide it too? Or is he feeling really defensive and shitty because the overwhelming message he is getting from his brother is that he isn’t good enough.
This is a really tough spot he (they?) have put you in, but what does he think would happen if he told them he got a new job in IT and this is what he does now? If you asked him “what’s the worst thing that would happen?” What might he say?
I have made a fair share of little white lies to cover for my sister. I have knowledge of more serious shit that I'd lie about if asked. HOWEVER, ain't no way I'm lying about MY SO's job to her husband's family to make them all feel like he's good enough.
I think his brother/wife/their family are probably narcissistic and nothing would be good enough for them anyway. Fuck their judgement. I'd severely limit my time with these people.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 6:46:38 GMT -5
So brother married into a judgmental family and now expects your boyfriend to carry that burden?
Sounds reasonable.
I hope you can convince your boyfriend to have respect for himself enough to tell your brother to stuff it, just bc brother married into a dick family doesn’t mean boyfriend has to pay the price.
I’d guide all my convos that way “your brother is the wrong one bc he’s telling you that you’re not worth as much bc of your job”
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2019 6:47:46 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
That’s some serious, hardcore narcissism on the brother’s part, to expect that the entire family lie about what your SO does for a living. This isn’t just a lie of omission, like that he didn’t graduate from college or something; he’s actually requiring your brother to lie about what he does all day, every working day.
It’s not just a lie; it’s an expectation that everyone else in brother’s life merely exists to reflect well upon brother. Somebody has to stand up and say WTF is going on here; I’m glad you’re doing that.
Post by klingklang77 on Aug 20, 2019 6:52:18 GMT -5
The brother is not a total asshole. He’s a good father, but he tends to be very show off-y. He needs to take a million photos of every time we all meet up. He’s generally friendly and he does more work than the wife it seems. Their apartment is huge for German standards. They combined 2 apartments together. European apartments are usually small. Expensive car. Investment properties. You get the idea.
Listen I know SAHMs have a big job with raising their kids. But she has a lot of help from her family and the local kindergarten (starts at 3 here) to help watch the kids. This goes on every day. She has never had a job (career wise) in her life. She doesn’t cook (take out usually, even though, they have a great kitchen). She has cleaners to clean for her. But that’s not my place to judge really since I don’t have kids.
A few asshole things he has done is that he really showed off his investment apartment that he bought to rent out. He had to bring everyone and made a big deal of it. Taking photos of him in every room was what he did. The biggest thing was that SO was sick (he deals with seizures) and in the hospital and I sent him a message that I couldn’t be there that day and could he please get in contact with his mom or dad. Radio silence. So I had to get in contact with his dad who lives 2 hours away to pick SO up. The dad is 80. The brother could have at least gotten back to me. The mother needs care and all of that falls on SO because the brother has his own family as he has said before to me.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 6:57:45 GMT -5
So, yes. He’s a dick. Maybe not the worst dick in the world, but certainly in a “it’s brothers world and you’re just living in it”.
I think it’s a real shame that your boyfriend allows his brother to make him feel less than worthy. He’s an adult, in a career that he loves, with a successful relationship and all of it makes him happy. Why is that not worthy of the truth??
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2019 6:58:02 GMT -5 by Leeham Rimes
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Was your SO once a teacher? If so, this is an easy out. You tell everyone the truth. He was a teacher but moved to IT. Done and done. He needs to get on board. This is a silly thing to keep lying about. Maybe the “once a teacher” thing will be enough cred for the SIL and family ::eye roll to them::
IDK, I am clearly the outlier but this wouldn’t be my hill. You rarely see these people and if your SO is a good man who is mostly doing this to not rock the boat with his brother with no other history of deception I’m more on team build him up than break up.
I think many of us are approaching this with a very American mindset; education and educators are valued quite differently in Germany from what I remember from almost a decade of German classes and having German friends. If her SO is German, that might be a mindset he can’t just shake off because she thinks he should. I’m not saying lying is the answer but I do think there is something we might not totally understand with our worldview in play.
Post by Leeham Rimes on Aug 20, 2019 7:17:33 GMT -5
I think, personally, I can understand this issue. My mother would be drop dead embarrassed if I was—say a cashier at Target vs a small business owner. Even if I was 1000% happy and loved my job, she’d absolutely lie to her friends about what I did as a profession.
I just don’t think that continuing status quo of being a shitty, judgmental ahole about someone’s job should be an acceptable option. I don’t know that I care how common it is. It’s bullshit and why should it be ok?
Seems that OP sees them often enough that lying is proving to be very difficult for her and it difficult to engage in normal conversation about her life.
Knowing more about this issue, I agree I don’t know that I’d be all “I’m ending it now” but I would absolutely not be willing to lie forever and ever about whatever issue the BROTHER deems necessary. Nobody should have that control of another person.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by klingklang77 on Aug 20, 2019 7:17:40 GMT -5
Yes, he was a teacher before. I don’t think it is my job to tell that he changed jobs. He still does school things. It’s just in an IT way now. It is completely silly to lie about this.
I guess now I know what it is like to deal with a narcissist (the brother).
It is a real shame that my SO acts less than worthy because he doesn’t make enough money. We get by. We don’t need fancy things and prefer to get used things for environment. We really have developed a nice life together. It’s just this one thing. He needs to stand up, but I can’t do it for him. He seems to think I can. I had one discussion with his father and I stood up for SO and SO was happy that I said that to his dad. It was about the fact that SO doesn’t have much time and that he needs some alone time. The dad understood, but it isn’t my place to say these things. At this point his dad just wants my to come and visit him and his wife and hang out without SO. It’s kind of strange because he tells me often that I remind him of his daughter that passed away. But he has had a few strokes, so I just forgive it all.