Two articles of Impeachment against Trump

[pixy0stix]

www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/politics/impeachment-articles-announced/index.html

• Abuse of Power
• Obstruction of Congress

[isabel]

Is the House even going to vote to impeach? Do they have the numbers?

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 10:21:11 GMT -5 isabel said:

Is the House even going to vote to impeach? Do they have the numbers?

Only a simple majority vote is required in the House. ETA: So even if a few defect, the House will almost certainly vote to impeach.

[taratru]

Good. I'm so tired of people on both sides not willing to do the right thing.

[mrssandro]

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

[isabel]

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 10:28:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

I feel hopeless but they are fighting the good fight. I am telling myself that whether Trump gets removed or not, Dems will ultimately be on the right side of history.

The only scenario I've read in which impeachment could plausibly happen is if, when the Senate negotiates and votes on rules for the impeachment trial, they vote to allow the Senate impeachment vote to be cast by secret ballot. And that seems completely unlikely.

[lemoncupcake]

Dec 10, 2019 10:28:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

And it’s still the right thing to do - being a check on the presidency is part of their responsibility.

[dutchgirl678]

They had to do it, whether the Senate convicts or not. If the GOP keeps stonewalling, I am sure they need to be very worried for those who are up for re-election.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Dec 10, 2019 10:28:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

I'm not entirely convinced it's a foregone conclusion he'll be acquitted in the Senate. His support among R's in Congress is similar to where it was with Nixon around this time in his impeachment process.

[lust2hart]

Dec 10, 2019 10:33:02 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:28:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

I feel hopeless but they are fighting the good fight. I am telling myself that whether Trump gets removed or not, Dems will ultimately be on the right side of history.

The only scenario I've read in which impeachment could plausibly happen is if, when the Senate negotiates and votes on rules for the impeachment trial, they vote to allow the Senate impeachment vote to be cast by secret ballot. And that seems completely unlikely.

One of my R senators is retiring. I plan to call and send postcards to him often, basically with the message that, "You're retiring anyway, so do the right thing here!" 

[StrawberryBlondie]

Dec 10, 2019 10:33:02 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:28:59 GMT -5 isabel said:

Oh yes, there's no way the senate convicts.

Even so, he'll go down in history as one of 3 presidents impeached by the house and I am going to cling to that because it will bruise his ego like nothing else.

I feel hopeless but they are fighting the good fight. I am telling myself that whether Trump gets removed or not, Dems will ultimately be on the right side of history.

The only scenario I've read in which impeachment could plausibly happen is if, when the Senate negotiates and votes on rules for the impeachment trial, they vote to allow the Senate impeachment vote to be cast by secret ballot. And that seems completely unlikely.

I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that said they only need something like 4 R senators to sand that a secret vote happens. I agree it's probably unlikely, but what I read made it seem like it was an actual possibility.

[CurlyQ284]

I read an article saying that if he is impeached by the House, he cannot be pardoned for impeachment crimes by a future president. So another reason for that.

I'm in a district thats flipped in 2018 (Michigan 8th) and Indivisible has been saying there was campaign of GOPers to call our rep and telling her to vote no and when they spoke to staffers they said they are getting majority No on Impeachment calls. Indivisible was encouraging supporters to call and ask her to vote yes so might be a good idea if you're in a swing district.

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 11:09:53 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:33:02 GMT -5 carmenere said:

I feel hopeless but they are fighting the good fight. I am telling myself that whether Trump gets removed or not, Dems will ultimately be on the right side of history.

The only scenario I've read in which impeachment could plausibly happen is if, when the Senate negotiates and votes on rules for the impeachment trial, they vote to allow the Senate impeachment vote to be cast by secret ballot. And that seems completely unlikely.

One of my R senators is retiring. I plan to call and send postcards to him often, basically with the message that, "You're retiring anyway, so do the right thing here!" 

Mine is too and I plan to do the same, but I know he won't do the right thing.

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 11:11:55 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:33:02 GMT -5 carmenere said:

I feel hopeless but they are fighting the good fight. I am telling myself that whether Trump gets removed or not, Dems will ultimately be on the right side of history.

The only scenario I've read in which impeachment could plausibly happen is if, when the Senate negotiates and votes on rules for the impeachment trial, they vote to allow the Senate impeachment vote to be cast by secret ballot. And that seems completely unlikely.

I read somewhere (I wish I remember where) that said they only need something like 4 R senators to sand that a secret vote happens. I agree it's probably unlikely, but what I read made it seem like it was an actual possibility.

I assume we read the same article. In theory it's possible, and I could think of 4 R's who would love to be able to vote secretly to remove - but voting in favor of a secret ballot would signal to constituents that they intend to vote to remove, and I doubt any of them are willing to take that risk.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Dec 10, 2019 11:12:13 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I read an article saying that if he is impeached by the House, he cannot be pardoned for impeachment crimes by a future president. So another reason for that.

I'm in a district thats flipped in 2018 (Michigan 8th) and Indivisible has been saying there was campaign of GOPers to call our rep and telling her to vote no and when they spoke to staffers they said they are getting majority No on Impeachment calls. Indivisible was encouraging supporters to call and ask her to vote yes so might be a good idea if you're in a swing district.

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 11:20:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:12:13 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I read an article saying that if he is impeached by the House, he cannot be pardoned for impeachment crimes by a future president. So another reason for that.

I'm in a district thats flipped in 2018 (Michigan 8th) and Indivisible has been saying there was campaign of GOPers to call our rep and telling her to vote no and when they spoke to staffers they said they are getting majority No on Impeachment calls. Indivisible was encouraging supporters to call and ask her to vote yes so might be a good idea if you're in a swing district.

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

Didn't Nixon resign before the full House voted to impeach?

[CurlyQ284]

Dec 10, 2019 11:20:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:12:13 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I read an article saying that if he is impeached by the House, he cannot be pardoned for impeachment crimes by a future president. So another reason for that.

I'm in a district thats flipped in 2018 (Michigan 8th) and Indivisible has been saying there was campaign of GOPers to call our rep and telling her to vote no and when they spoke to staffers they said they are getting majority No on Impeachment calls. Indivisible was encouraging supporters to call and ask her to vote yes so might be a good idea if you're in a swing district.

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

In the article they said Nixon resigned before the vote on impeachment.

[erbear]

Dec 10, 2019 11:20:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:12:13 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I read an article saying that if he is impeached by the House, he cannot be pardoned for impeachment crimes by a future president. So another reason for that.

I'm in a district thats flipped in 2018 (Michigan 8th) and Indivisible has been saying there was campaign of GOPers to call our rep and telling her to vote no and when they spoke to staffers they said they are getting majority No on Impeachment calls. Indivisible was encouraging supporters to call and ask her to vote yes so might be a good idea if you're in a swing district.

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

Nixon wasn't impeached, I don't think. But Articles were maybe passed in the House? My history is fuzzy.

[candreco]

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

While the Dems absolutely had to do it, I do worry that when the Senate doesn't convict, it will just bolster his base's belief that he's a legitimate president who can do nothing wrong, and it will only end up helping him out in 2020.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Dec 10, 2019 11:26:07 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:20:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

In the article they said Nixon resigned before the vote on impeachment.

Huh. I always thought he resigned before the Senate vote.

[was5]

Dec 10, 2019 11:34:13 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:26:07 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

In the article they said Nixon resigned before the vote on impeachment.

Huh. I always thought he resigned before the Senate vote.

This is from PBS.org.

I always remembered hearing that Nixon wasn't impeached but I wasn't sure what stage the process was at when he resigned. Ford pardoned Nixon but for crimes that lead to the hearings




ETA LINK



www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/complete-watergate-timeline-took-longer-realize



July 27-30, 1974

The House Judiciary Committee passes three articles of impeachment against Nixon, for obstruction of justice, misuse of power and contempt of Congress. By approving the charges, the committee sent the impeachment to the floor for a full House vote, but it never occurred.

Aug. 8, 1974

Nixon resigns. In his resignation speech, Nixon said: "I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as president, I must put the interest of America first."

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 10, 2019 11:32:23 GMT -5 erbear said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:20:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

I don't think this is true. Ford pardoned Nixon.

Nixon wasn't impeached, I don't think. But Articles were maybe passed in the House? My history is fuzzy.

He was not. He resigned before the House could vote.

[dutchgirl678]

Adam Schiff was on Maddow a few days ago. The investigations are not done and several committees are still working on ongoing matters. He said there might be more Articles of Impeachment following if needed. Also, SCOTUS is determining on Friday whether to take up the three financial cases dealing with Mazars (SDNY and Congress) and Deutsche Bank/Capital One (Congress).

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 10, 2019 11:55:38 GMT -5 was5 said:

Dec 10, 2019 11:34:13 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Huh. I always thought he resigned before the Senate vote.

This is from PBS.org.

I always remembered hearing that Nixon wasn't impeached but I wasn't sure what stage the process was at when he resigned. Ford pardoned Nixon but for crimes that lead to the hearings




ETA LINK



www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/complete-watergate-timeline-took-longer-realize



July 27-30, 1974

The House Judiciary Committee passes three articles of impeachment against Nixon, for obstruction of justice, misuse of power and contempt of Congress. By approving the charges, the committee sent the impeachment to the floor for a full House vote, but it never occurred.

Aug. 8, 1974

Nixon resigns. In his resignation speech, Nixon said: "I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as president, I must put the interest of America first."

Another important date is August 5th. After the articles passed in late July, it was certain to everyone that the House would vote for impeachment but there was strong doubt 67 Senators would vote to convict. Then, the "smoking gun tape" was released on August 5th and opinion shifted dramatically. Then he resigned.

ETA: I don't say this to give us any hope that the Senate won't acquit because there are too many cult followers in the Senate, just that the tides did dramatically shift with Nixon and, while unlikely, something even worse than everything else could happen that even some of the cult followers might wake up. Maybe. 

Having said all that, the zero chance of conviction in the Senate is not a reason for the House to absolve their responsibilities and I am tired at the nonsense being spewed about how we should just let it go because there won't be a conviction. He already could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and have there not be consequences, so for the first time in this blowhard's life, let's make him live with some consequences even if it's just a bad place in history.

[Patsy Baloney]

Dec 10, 2019 11:33:52 GMT -5 candreco said:

Dec 10, 2019 10:26:20 GMT -5 mrssandro said:

The argument though is that the Senate will shoot it down right? So there is no reason to allow it to give us any hope.

While the Dems absolutely had to do it, I do worry that when the Senate doesn't convict, it will just bolster his base's belief that he's a legitimate president who can do nothing wrong, and it will only end up helping him out in 2020.

These fuckwits are lost. They're as bolstered as they can possibly be. I'm done worrying about them. 

[was5]

I agree Congress had no choice, and if nothing else Dems can hold their heads up knowing they are on the right side of this.

Trump's cult will support him until the end of time. I hope the Dems have their get out the vote plan together and focus on the people who sat out in 2016.

I do think there are people who voted Trump in 2016 who want him out. I think they will probably sit out 2020 because they can't stomach voting for a Dem. There is a chance to get the WH back, but no vote can be taken for granted.

[1confused1]

If the Senate doesn't vote to impeach, how do we know the foreign involvement in the election process will stop?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, this whole process is confusing to me.

[carmenere]

Dec 10, 2019 12:32:02 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

If the Senate doesn't vote to impeach, how do we know the foreign involvement in the election process will stop?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, this whole process is confusing to me.

It won't.

[DotAndBuzz]

Did anyone watch the GOP response? Whoever it was literally stood up there and said (generally paraphrasing) "I hope no other congress ever does this."

Now, that was a paraphrase, but he flat out said he hopes no other congress ever takes the step to impeach a president. Not "I hope no other congress ever HAS to do this."

For me, that shows exactly where they are now. They are no longer loyal to the Constitution. They are loyal to themselves, their party, and Trump. Not even "the president," generally (which still would be wrong, regardless of who's in power). Just him, and themselves.

So fuck every last one of them, as well as anyone who supports them. This is wrong, and they know it. They just literally don't care.