@ WWYD Classroom collecting donations for religious charity

[somersault72]

Jan 22, 2020 19:57:21 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

I figured they had already coordinated with the charity and wouldn't want to back out, so I simply commented on the post announcing the donation sign-up: "Is it possible next time around to choose a charity that is not religiously affiliated?"

And someone (not the classroom mom who made the announcement): "[Organizer], thank you so much for coordinating this!
I really don’t care about the religious affiliation considering that it is aimed to help women and their children. If someone has a problem then I guess they just don’t have to participate 😊"

So, that lady is a snatch. Fuck her.

[somersault72]

Jan 22, 2020 23:01:47 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Another parent sent me a message through Facebook. She's a room parent in one of the other classrooms. This idea was presented as a shelter for mothers and children. The parent had never heard of it and didn't look it up, but knowing now, agrees this is inappropriate, and will send an email to the teachers.

I'm really glad you didn't let this go. Hopefully more research will be done before the school (or someone acting on behalf of the school) just starts deciding to throw resources at a "charity."

[redheadbaker]

A third room parent (who Facebook-liked the "just don't participate" comment) just posted:

"Please do not signup until we get further notice. There are a few second-grade parents who are unhappy about this approved fundraiser."

Love the subtle "approved" inclusion.

I also found out that the three teachers didn't just volunteer there on their own time. It was one of three volunteer opportunities for the school-sponsored MLK Day volunteer day.

[DotAndBuzz]

Jan 23, 2020 10:56:18 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

A third room parent (who Facebook-liked the "just don't participate" comment) just posted:

"Please do not signup until we get further notice. There are a few second-grade parents who are unhappy about this approved fundraiser."

Love the subtle "approved" inclusion.

I also found out that the three teachers didn't just volunteer there on their own time. It was one of three volunteer opportunities for the school-sponsored MLK Day volunteer day.

Nooooope! I’d ask the principal why religious charities were selected as part of the school sponsored volunteer day.

And then (not even exaggerating), would volunteer to write an official policy regarding school-sponsored volunteering and philanthropy. Formalize it so there’s no confusion in the future.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 23, 2020 10:56:18 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

A third room parent (who Facebook-liked the "just don't participate" comment) just posted:

"Please do not signup until we get further notice. There are a few second-grade parents who are unhappy about this approved fundraiser."

Love the subtle "approved" inclusion.

I also found out that the three teachers didn't just volunteer there on their own time. It was one of three volunteer opportunities for the school-sponsored MLK Day volunteer day.

It's nice that they let you know that the administration should be talked to as well. LOL!

[redheadbaker]

I emailed the principal, asking if charitable drive policies or guidelines exist.

[NewOrleans]

I like to present people with options so that I can say I was an active participant and not just a complainer, that I tried to work toward a solution and be helpful, etc.

So I would present the school and PTO (or whatever group it was) a list of noteworthy and more neutral organizations for schools to collect donations for, including organizations that accomplish a similar purpose of helping young or new moms or providing moms with needed items. (I don't believe there is such a thing as neutral, but that's a different discussion).

I would also suggest (and work with) the school develop protocols to approve organizations, such as vetting the mission statements of organizations.

[formerlyak]

Jan 23, 2020 9:08:29 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

I think it's good to introduce the idea of philanthropy to kids at school, and have no problem at all with philanthropy drives at a public school, provided no one is shamed into participating, or excluded in any way if they don't. It's for those reasons that I wince a bit at dress down days, etc, because if you *don't* donate, your kid doesn't get a "reward" of dressing down. Charity contribution shouldn't be affiliated with a reward, or clear indication of who participated, and who didn't, imo.

Part of our school's approach is to build community, and we've (PTO mission statement, teachers, parents, etc) decided that includes our local community as well, not just our school families. We've collected non-parishibles for the food bank at a local state university (which has a lot of students experiencing food insecurity), collected water in the immediate aftermath of the Flint water crisis (we're close-ish, and had the means to have it distributed to those in need), collected new, unused books for the children's hospital to use for kids who are immunocompromised, etc.

However this one? Absolutely not. Nope nope nope. Time to ditch the FB posting about it, and go straight to the principal. They may not be aware of the details, or that it's even happening, but they need to be, and a new organization needs to be selected immediately.

I agree with all of this and what your school does seems to be similar to what my kids' schools do. Right now the elementary school is doing a drive for pet supplies for a local shelter. In the fall, my middle schooler brought in school supplies for an under-funded school in a neighboring district. I have no issue with teaching philanthropy in school. But I do have issue with blindly supporting a cause without research, which seems to be what happened when the room mom posted this (she admitted she didn't really look into it).

I work in nonprofit management and was asked to get a guest speaker in my older son's leadership class when he was in 6th grade. We talked about all different types of philanthropy (time, talent and treasure) and how to do research to find an organization that matches with your beliefs and interests. The kids then decided to hold a movie night and charge $1 admissions and the proceeds went to a charity they chose. Kids who had a charity in mind had to pitch it to the class and then the class voted on which charity they would support. It was actually a pretty cool project.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 23, 2020 12:10:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I like to present people with options so that I can say I was an active participant and not just a complainer, that I tried to work toward a solution and be helpful, etc.

So I would present the school and PTO (or whatever group it was) a list of noteworthy and more neutral organizations for schools to collect donations for, including organizations that accomplish a similar purpose of helping young or new moms or providing moms with needed items. (I don't believe there is such a thing as neutral, but that's a different discussion).

I would also suggest (and work with) the school develop protocols to approve organizations, such as vetting the mission statements of organizations.

Yeah, I suggested an alternative in my first comment to the post.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 23, 2020 12:10:48 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Jan 23, 2020 9:08:29 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

I think it's good to introduce the idea of philanthropy to kids at school, and have no problem at all with philanthropy drives at a public school, provided no one is shamed into participating, or excluded in any way if they don't. It's for those reasons that I wince a bit at dress down days, etc, because if you *don't* donate, your kid doesn't get a "reward" of dressing down. Charity contribution shouldn't be affiliated with a reward, or clear indication of who participated, and who didn't, imo.

Part of our school's approach is to build community, and we've (PTO mission statement, teachers, parents, etc) decided that includes our local community as well, not just our school families. We've collected non-parishibles for the food bank at a local state university (which has a lot of students experiencing food insecurity), collected water in the immediate aftermath of the Flint water crisis (we're close-ish, and had the means to have it distributed to those in need), collected new, unused books for the children's hospital to use for kids who are immunocompromised, etc.

However this one? Absolutely not. Nope nope nope. Time to ditch the FB posting about it, and go straight to the principal. They may not be aware of the details, or that it's even happening, but they need to be, and a new organization needs to be selected immediately.

I agree with all of this and what your school does seems to be similar to what my kids' schools do. Right now the elementary school is doing a drive for pet supplies for a local shelter. In the fall, my middle schooler brought in school supplies for an under-funded school in a neighboring district. I have no issue with teaching philanthropy in school. But I do have issue with blindly supporting a cause without research, which seems to be what happened when the room mom posted this (she admitted she didn't really look into it).

I work in nonprofit management and was asked to get a guest speaker in my older son's leadership class when he was in 6th grade. We talked about all different types of philanthropy (time, talent and treasure) and how to do research to find an organization that matches with your beliefs and interests. The kids then decided to hold a movie night and charge $1 admissions and the proceeds went to a charity they chose. Kids who had a charity in mind had to pitch it to the class and then the class voted on which charity they would support. It was actually a pretty cool project.

I love this.

[NewOrleans]

Jan 23, 2020 12:13:57 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 23, 2020 12:10:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I like to present people with options so that I can say I was an active participant and not just a complainer, that I tried to work toward a solution and be helpful, etc.

So I would present the school and PTO (or whatever group it was) a list of noteworthy and more neutral organizations for schools to collect donations for, including organizations that accomplish a similar purpose of helping young or new moms or providing moms with needed items. (I don't believe there is such a thing as neutral, but that's a different discussion).

I would also suggest (and work with) the school develop protocols to approve organizations, such as vetting the mission statements of organizations.

Yeah, I suggested an alternative in my first comment to the post.

I meant more for the future to help them avoid these uncomfortable faux-pas.

[formerlyak]

Jan 23, 2020 12:14:47 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 23, 2020 12:10:48 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

I agree with all of this and what your school does seems to be similar to what my kids' schools do. Right now the elementary school is doing a drive for pet supplies for a local shelter. In the fall, my middle schooler brought in school supplies for an under-funded school in a neighboring district. I have no issue with teaching philanthropy in school. But I do have issue with blindly supporting a cause without research, which seems to be what happened when the room mom posted this (she admitted she didn't really look into it).

I work in nonprofit management and was asked to get a guest speaker in my older son's leadership class when he was in 6th grade. We talked about all different types of philanthropy (time, talent and treasure) and how to do research to find an organization that matches with your beliefs and interests. The kids then decided to hold a movie night and charge $1 admissions and the proceeds went to a charity they chose. Kids who had a charity in mind had to pitch it to the class and then the class voted on which charity they would support. It was actually a pretty cool project.

I love this.

Thank you! I realize I typed "get" a guest speaker. It should have read "be" a guest speaker. I was the speaker But I do think it was a great lesson and one that should be taught in all schools. Philanthropy is so personal, so why not teach kids how to make that choice for themselves? A few of my colleagues volunteered to do the same at their local schools after I told them about the project at my son's school.

[af1212]

Jan 23, 2020 12:29:25 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Jan 23, 2020 12:14:47 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

I love this.

Thank you! I realize I typed "get" a guest speaker. It should have read "be" a guest speaker. I was the speaker But I do think it was a great lesson and one that should be taught in all schools. Philanthropy is so personal, so why not teach kids how to make that choice for themselves? A few of my colleagues volunteered to do the same at their local schools after I told them about the project at my son's school.

I would love it if you could point me towards any resources you may have on this topic?

I’m currently spearheading a monthly kids service club and my aim is to expose them to a different “topic” each month so that by the end of it they will see a variety of causes and ways to help. What you’re talking about seems like a better explained version of what I’m trying to do 🤣

[formerlyak]

af1212 I don't really have any prepared resources. But here's basically what we did:

- I gave them a fake million dollars and asked them to share with the class what they would give to any why. They had to do something to help others with the million dollars. As they shared, I would mention a few local charities that did that kind of work. Most were things like helping kids in need or pets in need or foster kids.

- Then we talked about how charity isn't always about money. And wouldn't it be great to just make others feel good that day. They all got a post-it and wrote a positive message on it and then went into the main hall bathrooms and stuck their messages on the mirrors.

- Then we talked about ways kids can get involved with charities. They all know Jump Rope for Hearts and Hoops for Hearts because our district participates in those. We also talked about things like Kids for Wish Kids, which is a Make-A-Wish program.

- We talked about websites like Guidestar.org and Charity Navigator and how you can search and learn more about a charity and how they spend their donations.

- Then they decided to have the movie night (that part wasn't planned, but the kids and the leadership teacher came up with it on the fly so I went with it). So we decided I should come back for a follow up lesson. In that lesson kids pitched their charities and voted. We also talked about what they should say when they reach out to the charity to tell them they wanted to make a gift.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[irishbride2]

Jan 22, 2020 21:32:08 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Yeah I agree this whole thing is weird now that you mention more.
To be honest the organization you described had my spidey senses going up as an anti-abortion organization from the beginning.
But to be clear, is this an official school event or just something that is posted on a non-school sponsored facebook page?
Not that I don't think you should say more either way, just about who to approach.

Is charitable giving a thing that is typically happening in elementary schools these days?
While obviously I see the point in teaching kids to give back, charitable giving is such a personal thing that even if not religious could be problematic.

We do two major charity events in the lower school. One is a gift drive  for guardian ad litem. Each class sponsors a few kids. 

The second is for an org called Kind Mouse. They pack bags of food for kids on free lunch to take home over the weekend. 

Both are specifically picked because younger kids can help AND relate. 

But I would be PISSED about the OP. 

[rosiebear]

I’m not comfortable with school-sponsored charitable drives that benefit lower-income families when there are definitely kids attending that school whose families are aided by those charities. I’m not entirely sure why, but it just doesn’t sit right with me.

[redheadbaker]

And here comes the backlash.

"Guys! Religious babies need diapers too."

I commented that she was still free too donate to them, but it was an inappropriate org for a public school to work with.

She replied:

"Out of curiosity is it inappropriate for a religious school to donate to a non religious affiliated organization? I feel like this is nothing more than an opportunity to vote with your dollar. It’s a choice. It’s not mandatory. Much like accepting the services of a religious organization is a choice. Also, not mandatory."

[georgeglass]

It's promoting an organization that requires people to be a certain type of religious in order to benefit. As for as people in need having a bunch of choices for help? Fuck her.

Proud of you.

[downtoearth]

Jan 23, 2020 17:09:34 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

And here comes the backlash.

"Guys! Religious babies need diapers too."

I commented that she was still free too donate to them, but it was an inappropriate org for a public school to work with.

She replied:

"Out of curiosity is it inappropriate for a religious school to donate to a non religious affiliated organization? I feel like this is nothing more than an opportunity to vote with your dollar. It’s a choice. It’s not mandatory. Much like accepting the services of a religious organization is a choice. Also, not mandatory."

The worst.

The more I think about this, the more I think that if this is an "approved" activity or even perceived as "approved" by the students that it violates the church and state "volunteerism" determination. Isn't there a separation of church and state determination about students being captive audiences. I just looked it up and I think it might because, "public schools that host religious events often excuse them by calling them 'voluntary.' Students are a captive audience who, as the Supreme Court has stated repeatedly, cannot be required to forfeit rights or benefits as the price of resisting state-sponsored religious practices."

Hmmmm. It depends on if the kids are feeling that this is school-sponsored - doesn't matter if it's voluntary.  

ETA: here's the link ffrf.org/publications/brochures/item/27181-top-ten-brochure

[seeyalater52]

Jan 23, 2020 17:09:34 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

And here comes the backlash.

"Guys! Religious babies need diapers too."

I commented that she was still free too donate to them, but it was an inappropriate org for a public school to work with.

She replied:

"Out of curiosity is it inappropriate for a religious school to donate to a non religious affiliated organization? I feel like this is nothing more than an opportunity to vote with your dollar. It’s a choice. It’s not mandatory. Much like accepting the services of a religious organization is a choice. Also, not mandatory."

Uh no because religious schools are by definition not bound by any separation of church and state rules that would make donating to a non-religious organization inappropriate/possibly illegal. Vote with your dollar when you’re not on the taxpayer dime, yo.

[irishbride2]

Jan 23, 2020 14:34:24 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

I’m not comfortable with school-sponsored charitable drives that benefit lower-income families when there are definitely kids attending that school whose families are aided by those charities. I’m not entirely sure why, but it just doesn’t sit right with me.

I don’t know if this is in response to me or the OP, but if it’s me then it’s not an issue at our school.

[redheadbaker]

Husband of "religious babies need diapers too!" is now commenting.

"Seriously? We let one person shut down a positive project? That’s weak. I’m not religious, and I believe in separation of church and state, but this isn’t a public endorsement, it’s a positive community project. We should not bend the knee to every wingnut with an opinion. This is very disheartening.

You do realize that no one is forced to seek help from this charity right? Every charity has requirements to receive help, anyone getting help from this charity is willing to accept those requirements. Your objection isn’t protecting the separation of church and state, it’s a single Individual advocating for the restriction of individual rights.

The school is not donating anything. Seriously, this is why we can’t have nice things."

[msmerymac]

redheadbaker how dare you restrict someone's individual rights to supporting restricting individual rights!

[seeyalater52]

Jan 23, 2020 17:48:43 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Husband of "religious babies need diapers too!" is now commenting.

"Seriously? We let one person shut down a positive project? That’s weak. I’m not religious, and I believe in separation of church and state, but this isn’t a public endorsement, it’s a positive community project. We should not bend the knee to every wingnut with an opinion. This is very disheartening.

You do realize that no one is forced to seek help from this charity right? Every charity has requirements to receive help, anyone getting help from this charity is willing to accept those requirements. Your objection isn’t protecting the separation of church and state, it’s a single Individual advocating for the restriction of individual rights.

The school is not donating anything. Seriously, this is why we can’t have nice things."

The logic is not strong with this crowd...

[suburbanzookeeper]

When you send your kids to a religious school you now what you're signing up and what your children are being exposed to. We have chosen to raise our children without religion for a number of reasons - I'd be livid if my kids were exposed to it under the auspice of volunteerism in their public school.

[heyjude]

Wow!

[redheadbaker]

And of course, the people who are up in arms that this "positive community outreach" was canceled are the overbearing, outspoken, "Queen Bee" type moms, so I guess now I'm the official Outcast Mom.

[heyjude]

Would like to see how these parents would respond if the charity in question had something to do with the Church of Satan.

[wanderingback]

Jan 23, 2020 14:34:24 GMT -5 rosiebear said:

I’m not comfortable with school-sponsored charitable drives that benefit lower-income families when there are definitely kids attending that school whose families are aided by those charities. I’m not entirely sure why, but it just doesn’t sit right with me.

Yep that’s why I said my comment above about I get the idea behind charitable giving but it seems to me that it can easily be icky...several examples have clearly been given in this post.
Even if it doesn’t seem controversial it might totally be.
This is especially true at the elementary school level when it seems like the adults pretty much lead these things and obviously young kids don’t have the capacity to understand the nuances of how "good deeds" can also be problematic.

[StrawberryBlondie]

So... I can sort of see how this happened. There's a local charity here that does a lot of corporate events. Basically, they come to your workplace and you and your coworkers package up food to be shipped places with lots of starving people. I've never done one, but I've heard they're fairly fun. It's fairly common for managers to sign their entire teams up to do it.

But - they're a religious charity and at least some low-key proselytizing involved for the recipients. From what I understand, they mention none of that at the events, so if you don't do research, you'd never know.

I've brought up at work every time someone suggests a team event with them that we need to make clear it's 100% optional because they're religious (no church/state issues, just a diverse company). Most people usually get it but there's always 1 or 2 that loudly paint you as pro-starvation.

They did an event with a local elementary school a few years ago and a brave few complained about it being an inappropriate charity, and the responses were basically that the children weren't proselytized to at the event, so nbd, or that they do great work, so nbd. However, I'm pretty sure that was the 1 and only tie they did it at that school.