No entry to foreigners who've been to China

[wise_rita]

USA: per presidential proclamation, entry of aliens who were present in China within 14 days of their arrival at the port of entry to USA is suspended.  Excludes HK and Macau.

What about Taiwain?

Australia: PM ScoMo said only "Australian citizens, Australian residents, dependents, legal guardians or spouses" would be permitted into the country from mainland China from Saturday.  They tell all people to self-isolate for 14 days.

This is freaking nuts, man.

[NewOrleans]

Maybe I just don’t understand the US one— aliens would be non-citizens but does that include students on visas, legal residents, etc?

[VillainV]

The flu has killed more people this year...

[mmmomof2]

A US citizen with Coronavirus is just as dangerous?

[thejen626]

Where are people supposed to self-isolate? Random hotels?? What normal person could afford that?

[isabel]

I truly don't understand the freak out about Coronavirus.

[wildrice]

Feb 1, 2020 17:36:38 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

Where are people supposed to self-isolate? Random hotels?? What normal person could afford that?

At home? I think they just mean that you should stay away from others and that they aren't going to hold you somewhere.

Given that just yesterday we banned people from 6 other countries from entering the US, this just sounds like a convenient excuse to keep foreigners out IMO. Then again, it sounds like China isn't letting anyone go anywhere so... I don't know. This whole panic seems bonkers to me.

[biscoffcookies]

Feb 1, 2020 17:32:56 GMT -5 mmmomof2 said:

A US citizen with Coronavirus is just as dangerous?

Yeah but the government can't deny entry to citizens. They are entitled to come back in.

They can quarantine them. A bunch of US people who came back from China on an evacuation flight have been.

[erbear]

My Chinese international students are freaking out about this right now. They are less worried about the disease itself than about the actions of the United States government, which is sad.

One of the schools here cancelled their exchange student program after the kids were already in the country and ready for school and sent them back to China.

[cinnamoncox0]

Feb 1, 2020 18:13:00 GMT -5 biscoffcookies said:

Feb 1, 2020 17:32:56 GMT -5 mmmomof2 said:

A US citizen with Coronavirus is just as dangerous?

Yeah but the government can't deny entry to citizens. They are entitled to come back in.

They can quarantine them. A bunch of US people who came back from China on an evacuation flight have been.

Yes it’s my understanding that recently, maybe just as of Friday, all foreign nationals coming in from or through China will be excluded, and all citizens returning from the area will be quarantined in military base in California as of now.
Up to and most likely two weeks, they originally were going to let them go after a few days of no symptoms but I think I read it will most likely be the full two weeks since symptoms can appear later than a few days. It will be 14 days from when their plane left Wuhan.

I think there are about 200 in quarantine now.

[minzy]

Feb 1, 2020 17:36:38 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

Where are people supposed to self-isolate? Random hotels?? What normal person could afford that?

@@ My daughter has a classmate whose father came back from China a few days ago. Apparently, he will be camping out in their basement for 10 days.

[Jalapeñomel]

We absolutely should be concerned about the spreading of a virus we know very little about.

I don’t know if a travel ban is the appropriate solution, but dismissing this virus because it doesn’t kill as many people as the flu is not the right course of action.

Also, someone reminded me of the long incubation period, which is absolutely a concern.

We don’t need to go all 28 Days Later, but we should be concerned.

[VillainV]

Feb 1, 2020 19:10:06 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

We absolutely should be concerned about the spreading of a virus we know very little about.

I don’t know if a travel ban is the appropriate solution, but dismissing this virus because it doesn’t kill as many people as the flu is not the right course of action.

Also, someone reminded me of the long incubation period, which is absolutely a concern.

We don’t need to go all 28 Days Later, but we should be concerned.

I wasn’t implying that we shouldn’t be concerned about it. It’s just interesting (and sad, and enraging) that people respond with racism and xenophobia because a disease originated in a different country.

But when a similar disease, not AS deadly, is absolutely understood and we have decent preventative measures for it, people scoff it because of “chemicals.” GET YOUR DAMN FLU SHOT PEOPLE.

My community has had a few flu deaths in the last couple of weeks that likely could have been prevented with a $30 vaccine, so I’m pretty sensitive about it right now. I know that influenza and corona are different viruses and one doesn’t influence the other, and that the spread of each is mutually exclusive.....

[NewOrleans]

Feb 1, 2020 19:34:42 GMT -5 VillainV said:

Feb 1, 2020 19:10:06 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

We absolutely should be concerned about the spreading of a virus we know very little about.

I don’t know if a travel ban is the appropriate solution, but dismissing this virus because it doesn’t kill as many people as the flu is not the right course of action.

Also, someone reminded me of the long incubation period, which is absolutely a concern.

We don’t need to go all 28 Days Later, but we should be concerned.

I wasn’t implying that we shouldn’t be concerned about it. It’s just interesting (and sad, and enraging) that people respond with racism and xenophobia because a disease originated in a different country.

But when a similar disease, not AS deadly, is absolutely understood and we have decent preventative measures for it, people scoff it because of “chemicals.” GET YOUR DAMN FLU SHOT PEOPLE.

My community has had a few flu deaths in the last couple of weeks that likely could have been prevented with a $30 vaccine, so I’m pretty sensitive about it right now. I know that influenza and corona are different viruses and one doesn’t influence the other, and that the spread of each is mutually exclusive.....

Someone should let the dummies know the flu also comes from Asia. Maybe they would care and get their vaccines then?

[StrawberryBlondie]

Feb 1, 2020 19:41:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Feb 1, 2020 19:34:42 GMT -5 VillainV said:

I wasn’t implying that we shouldn’t be concerned about it. It’s just interesting (and sad, and enraging) that people respond with racism and xenophobia because a disease originated in a different country.

But when a similar disease, not AS deadly, is absolutely understood and we have decent preventative measures for it, people scoff it because of “chemicals.” GET YOUR DAMN FLU SHOT PEOPLE.

My community has had a few flu deaths in the last couple of weeks that likely could have been prevented with a $30 vaccine, so I’m pretty sensitive about it right now. I know that influenza and corona are different viruses and one doesn’t influence the other, and that the spread of each is mutually exclusive.....

Someone should let the dummies know the flu also comes from Asia. Maybe they would care and get their vaccines then?

This legit blew an anti-vax friend's mind when I told her that a week ago.

[NewOrleans]

Feb 1, 2020 20:23:17 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Feb 1, 2020 19:41:39 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Someone should let the dummies know the flu also comes from Asia. Maybe they would care and get their vaccines then?

This legit blew an anti-vax friend's mind when I told her that a week ago.

omg 😫

[karinothing]

My uncle, an American, is hanging out in Taiwan for 2 weeks to hopefully avoid quarantine when he gets here on the 14th.

I honestly don't know what to think at this point. My main concern is the Chinese government not being honest about the infected or death rate. My Chinese friends seem to think it's a lot worse than is being reported and have been posting a lot of unverified videos, but who knows if they are real. But my uncle living in China seems to think the worry is overblown.

Hopefully regardless of the truth officials get an upper hand soon.

[docholly]

I think it is a concern. With its incubation period and the fact that there is no vaccine/it is a novel virus, it could be very devastating for populations that don’t have easy access to healthcare. The data suggests, without containment, you are more likely to pass on this virus to a higher number of people than seasonal flu.

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/asia/china-coronavirus-contain.html

With the way people travel in the modern world, a respiratory illness can spread so easily/quickly. They have to contain it.

Is it cause for panic in the US currently? No. I am personally more worried about getting influenza (we are vaccinated). But, I don’t think organizations like the WHO are overreacting either.

I worry about people who don’t have easy access to medical care and/or have pre-existing conditions.

[jigsy]

Feb 2, 2020 8:15:47 GMT -5 karinothing said:

My uncle, an American, is hanging out in Taiwan for 2 weeks to hopefully avoid quarantine when he gets here on the 14th.

I honestly don't know what to think at this point. My main concern is the Chinese government not being honest about the infected or death rate. My Chinese friends seem to think it's a lot worse than is being reported and have been posting a lot of unverified videos, but who knows if they are real. But my uncle living in China seems to think the worry is overblown.

Hopefully regardless of the truth officials get an upper hand soon.

This is where I am concerned too. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a government that is known to suppress information wouldn't also suppress this type of information too?

Reminds me of Chernobyl a little bit (The HBO miniseries, not the actual event...because I don't know what it was actually like, so, the show may be dramatized, lol)

[carmenere]

Feb 3, 2020 17:29:38 GMT -5 jigsy said:

Feb 2, 2020 8:15:47 GMT -5 karinothing said:

My uncle, an American, is hanging out in Taiwan for 2 weeks to hopefully avoid quarantine when he gets here on the 14th.

I honestly don't know what to think at this point. My main concern is the Chinese government not being honest about the infected or death rate. My Chinese friends seem to think it's a lot worse than is being reported and have been posting a lot of unverified videos, but who knows if they are real. But my uncle living in China seems to think the worry is overblown.

Hopefully regardless of the truth officials get an upper hand soon.

This is where I am concerned too. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a government that is known to suppress information wouldn't also suppress this type of information too?

Reminds me of Chernobyl a little bit (The HBO miniseries, not the actual event...because I don't know what it was actually like, so, the show may be dramatized, lol)

I mean...

www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

[Aloe Vera]

When did the flu start? Last September? Of course it would have more deaths by now than the coronavirus. Also, I am pretty sure the Chinese government is lying about the real death toll.
I agree with Jalapeñomel, we should be concerned.

[outnumbered]

Feb 3, 2020 20:52:31 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Feb 3, 2020 17:29:38 GMT -5 jigsy said:

This is where I am concerned too. Is it out of the realm of possibility that a government that is known to suppress information wouldn't also suppress this type of information too?

Reminds me of Chernobyl a little bit (The HBO miniseries, not the actual event...because I don't know what it was actually like, so, the show may be dramatized, lol)

I mean...

www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

and this  www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html

[Michelle]

The response to the Coronavirus is a lesson learned from lack of SARS containment. Depending on where you get your stats, SARS had a death rate of about 9%. The flu has a death rate of about 2%. Coronavirus has the potential to have the same or greater death rate as SARS.

The massive response is an all-hands-on-deck approach to quarantine the population that has it and keep it from infecting others. It's a hospital practice on steroids. As an employee of a hospital, we have 2/day calls about this.

I also oversee the team that sponsors J-1 students. One of the big challenges is transportation. J-1 students are often self-funded. If they don't have enough money to sustain themselves through airline shut-downs, they could be stuck in the U.S. If the government gives them any sort of help, that encroaches on the public funds rule which means they can never get a greencard even if they become a world-reknown scientist or surgeon. So to prevent their students from facing that risk, some J-1 programs are cancelling the program.

We have J-1 employees and J-1 students. We are looking at extending J-1 programs at our own expense for employees until they can get flights home, because we don't want them to fall out of status. We thought they could go back on China Air but China Air cancelled flights. Delta cancelled flights last week. American Airlines's union was suing or threatening to sue them for exposing their employees to health risks by making them work on flights to China. So the travel ban into the U.S. is also an effort to keep people from being stranded here and facing the possibility of being stranded without legal authorization to be in the U.S. That is our biggest worry for our students who are self-funded. Even if their program is extended, can they pay their own way? And are there immigration restrictions on giving stipends for self-funded students with no tax penalty, because they aren't authorized to perform "work" in the U.S.? No matter which way you look, many students could face "unlawful status" because they simply can't get home. So i can't blame the programs who just cancel their short term programs to prevent putting students or their organization at risk.

I imagine that is why Australia is only letting Australians return home - if they don't let them return, their citizens face going to jail in china for overstaying their visas.

All the containment efforts have immigration consequences if the spread of the virus lasts as long as SARS did.

As for Taiwan, i was there during the peak of the SARS epidemic in May/June 2003. I imagine they are not letting mainlanders come there so as long as they don't have mass outbreaks of the virus there, going through the incubation period there and then returning home sounds like a super smart move, and also fun because Taiwan is a beautiful island.

[wise_rita]

Michelle I read on Facebook yesterday that UK immigration authorities are giving leeway to student visa overstayers who are stranded because of this.

I haven't seen confirmation for Australia but assume they will do the same. Higher ed is taking a broad sector-wide approach (mainly because this can destroy the industry, but stranded students won't be abandoned).

I have no faith the USA would make such accommodations for people stranded with no options.

[scout8]

Feb 4, 2020 14:20:49 GMT -5 outnumbered said:

Feb 3, 2020 20:52:31 GMT -5 carmenere said:

I mean...

www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

and this  www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html

From that CNN article, it's clear there was an initial cover-up. It makes it hard to trust the current information.

[Michelle]

Feb 4, 2020 17:00:27 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Michelle I read on Facebook yesterday that UK immigration authorities are giving leeway to student visa overstayers who are stranded because of this.

I haven't seen confirmation for Australia but assume they will do the same. Higher ed is taking a broad sector-wide approach (mainly because this can destroy the industry, but stranded students won't be abandoned).

I have no faith the USA would make such accommodations for people stranded with no options.

So, the state department is trying to be as supportive as they can. They have asked that for ANY situation where someone can't return home and it's impacting their status, that an incident be logged in SEVIS. Those with positive mindsets about global exchange would consider that as a way of documenting exceptions to strict immigration laws. But those who have seen the targeting of DACA kids and others who have followed the government's requirement to check in and have later been rounded up for deportation are skeptical about how that data might be used.

I think the State department would probably issue temporary "legal status" extensions for these J-1 students because there is enough lobbying by the Research, Science, and Medical community regarding the value of J-1 programs for global development of healthcare innovations. 

But this public charge rule was just supported last week by the supreme court, so IF we gave the foreign nationals any support while they were here (because their personal funds ran out and they had no way home), under this rule they would be barred from ever getting a green card. This law doesn't think about international exchange programs and natural disasters, pandemics, etc.

www.cnbc.com/2020/01/27/supreme-court-allows-trumps-public-charge-immigration-rule.html

Short-sighted congressional pandering cuts off our noses to spite our faces.

[Shreddingbetty]

Feb 1, 2020 17:32:56 GMT -5 mmmomof2 said:

A US citizen with Coronavirus is just as dangerous?

Yea but they should ave health insurance that will cover their bills if they get hospitalized. Whereas any foreigner (non us resident) will not be able to lay for hospitalization in this country so hospitals will lose money. I’m sure this plays into it as well

[scout8]

Feb 4, 2020 23:08:18 GMT -5 Shreddingbetty said:

Feb 1, 2020 17:32:56 GMT -5 mmmomof2 said:

A US citizen with Coronavirus is just as dangerous?

Yea but they should ave health insurance that will cover their bills if they get hospitalized. Whereas any foreigner (non us resident) will not be able to lay for hospitalization in this country so hospitals will lose money. I’m sure this plays into it as well

I wouldn't assume that US citizens should have health insurance. Millions of people don't.

[Michelle]

Feb 4, 2020 23:13:02 GMT -5 scout8 said:

Feb 4, 2020 23:08:18 GMT -5 Shreddingbetty said:

Yea but they should ave health insurance that will cover their bills if they get hospitalized. Whereas any foreigner (non us resident) will not be able to lay for hospitalization in this country so hospitals will lose money. I’m sure this plays into it as well

I wouldn't assume that US citizens should have health insurance. Millions of people don't.

They are allowing US Citizens and Permanent residents in because they may not have authorization to stay in China or permission to enter anywhere else either. But in LA, San Francisco, and soon Houston, returning citizens and residents have been held in quarantine and assessed before releasing to the general public, and they are being recommended to self-isolate at home in case they develop symptoms.

[scout8]

Feb 5, 2020 13:21:36 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Feb 4, 2020 23:13:02 GMT -5 scout8 said:

I wouldn't assume that US citizens should have health insurance. Millions of people don't.

They are allowing US Citizens and Permanent residents in because they may not have authorization to stay in China or permission to enter anywhere else either. But in LA, San Francisco, and soon Houston, returning citizens and residents have been held in quarantine and assessed before releasing to the general public, and they are being recommended to self-isolate at home in case they develop symptoms.

Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that we shouldn't let in US citizens or permanent residents. I was pointing out that we shouldn't assume that a citizen or permanent resident has health insurance.