Pro Publica: Evenflo put profits over safety

[ohgillian]

Pro Publica, an investigative journalism organization, published an article about Evenflo’s marketing of boosters to parents. (Bottom line: weight minimums too low, testing not rigorous.)

Be warned that it gets into detail of stories of real children injured while in boosters.

Full article
t.co/54TwmiHNIc

Videos about side impact testing
www.propublica.org/video/watch-videos-reveal-how-evenflo-put-children-at-risk


What parents need to know re car seats
www.propublica.org/article/the-most-important-thing-every-parent-needs-to-know-about-car-seat-safety/

[kath16]

we just moved my kid to a booster a few weeks ago - he meets all of these requirements but it still gives me major anxiety.

(also, i think you're going to need to put an @@@ in this title) SORRY NEVERMIND I HAVE MY BOARDS MIXED UP

[felicity]

Feb 6, 2020 8:07:30 GMT -5 kath16 said:

@@@

we just moved my kid to a booster a few weeks ago - he meets all of these requirements but it still gives me major anxiety.

(also, i think you're going to need to put an @@@ in this title)

This thread is on MM Moms. 

[kath16]

Feb 6, 2020 8:15:33 GMT -5 felicity said:

Feb 6, 2020 8:07:30 GMT -5 kath16 said:

@@@

we just moved my kid to a booster a few weeks ago - he meets all of these requirements but it still gives me major anxiety.

(also, i think you're going to need to put an @@@ in this title)

This thread is on MM Moms. 

LOL oh gosh. 

I need to go eat breakfast and try again. 

Sorryyyyyy

[felicity]

The article sounds like while Evenflo was the one investigated, this may actually be a problem with all belt positioning boosters. I'm unclear why 40 lbs is what the industry says makes it safe to be in a booster. Wouldn't age, height, and spinal development be more important? Say one child happens to have a higher BMI than another child with exactly the same bone structure otherwise, and the only difference is the higher BMI child weighs more. How does the extra weight alone keep them safe? It doesn't make sense to me.

[pooh8402]

Feb 6, 2020 8:38:19 GMT -5 turbo said:

My main takeaways from this article are (1) we’re not actually regulating car seat safety as well as we should be and (2) we need to do what we can to reverse the ideas / thoughts that moving your child up into a “bigger kids” car seat at the earliest possible opportunity is safe / what we should aspire to doing. And, tangentially, maybe (3) would be that it’s worth giving an extra look to car seats that meet Canadian / European requirements because they both sound more stringent than US requirements for marketing / safety (though European standards weren’t mentioned in this article, I’ve heard they’re more strict than US requirements).

I’m not trying to be sanctimonious (sanctimommyous?) at all here but I have legitimately never understood the rush to move children into bigger car seats at early ages. I know people who flipped their kids forward facing the day they turned one. It totally perplexed me because of ALL the data out there that shows rear-facing is so much safer. I admittedly benefit from not having kids who get sick while rear-facing, and if I did then I concede I would probably feel differently so I fully acknowledging that privilege in making these comments. My 3.25 year old DS is 36 pounds and 38” tall and still rear faces and so many of his younger, smaller friends are forward facing and have been for a really long time and I just don’t get it since I know several of them were NOT car sickness issues. I think it’s actually a sign that our lack of education around this and steadfast belief that “if it’s allowed it must be safe” are relied upon too much.

I plan to rear face both DS1 and DS2 for as long as they fit the seat requirements (which are 50 pounds / 49”). Then they’re going to be in a front harness seat until they’re 65 pounds, because that’s what our seat allows for. It may not be cool but IDGAF.

I agree with all of this.

One thing that people don't know is that there are no standards for side impact testing in the US. So any car seat manufacturer that advertises that their seats are side impact tested (Evenflo are not the only ones, also Graco, Chicco, Britax, etc) are overstating things. They might do their own internal side impact testing, but no one knows how effective it really is.

I do agree that people need to be better educated that just because their child meets the minimum, that it is not necessarily safe to move up to the next stage of seats. That being said, E1 can be in a harnessed seat until he is 65 pounds. However, he's 4.5 years old and only 34, 35 pounds. If his growth follows my own growth trajectory, he won't be 65 pounds until 6th grade. He'll likely outgrow the harness by height before weight, though.

Rear facing is safer than forward facing. However, it may not be a whole 5 times safer like has been previously stated. The study that showed that stat was shown to not be very well done and it overstated the safety. When people tried to replicate it and evaluated it further, the whole "5 times safer" thing was not true.

[isabel]

turbo, DS1’s best friend (at age 4.5) is already in a backless booster. I cringed when I saw his seat in his mom’s car.

I’ve been debating moving DS1 to a high back booster when kinder starts this year so he could get out easily, but then I realized I can just teach him how to unbuckle his harness. So that’s what we’ll be doing. I kept him rear facing until the day he hit the weight limit and DS2 will probably rear face until 4 because he’s so small.

I agree. I just don’t understand the rush with that stuff.

[ohgillian]

Feb 6, 2020 8:54:18 GMT -5 isabel said:

turbo, DS1’s best friend (at age 4.5) is already in a backless booster. I cringed when I saw his seat in his mom’s car.

I’ve been debating moving DS1 to a high back booster when kinder starts this year so he could get out easily, but then I realized I can just teach him how to unbuckle his harness. So that’s what we’ll be doing. I knelt him rear facing until the day he hit the weight limit and DS2 will probably rear face until 4 because he’s so small.

I agree. I just don’t understand the rush with that stuff.

Right, this. My seven-year-old is still in a five point harness. She’s a little wisp of a thing though, so I’m not saying that all seven-year-olds should be.

[noodleoo]

turbo , it's really interesting because I feel like the thinking on this changed pretty recently and more education is needed. My oldest is almost 5 and my sisters kids are 10 and 12. My sister could *NOT* understand why I rear-faced at over 1 year. When her kids were little (which wasn't that long ago!) she flipped them right at 12 months and I guess so did everyone she knew. It was so weird because she was so supportive about everything else, but she totally judged me (and still does) about car seats. I kept DD1 rear-facing until almost 3 and now she's in a harnessed forward facing seat. I think by now her kids were in seatbelt boosters. I tried explaining how much safer it is and she was like "my kids were fine". I was shocked at how quickly she dismissed it.

Being on this forum has helped reinforce it a lot. My friend wanted to keep her DD rear-facing, but her H "had it" at 2 and flipped her forward. It was so weird. I do think it is easier to get the kids in and out once they are forward facing, but the convenience isn't worth the safety risk to do it early to me.

[Velar Fricative]

This is horrifying. I don't have Evenflo seats and didn't read the entire article yet, but DD1 is in Graco Tranzitions seat in the harness mode in both of our cars. She's 6yo and well under 65 pounds, which is the metric I've been mindful of. But then I got to the point in the article that talked about how most harness booster seats can accommodate up to 49" in height and I damn near panicked. I think DD1 is 49" and might actually be taller, shit. I'm measuring her as soon as we get home later. I'm not comfortable removing the harness yet and leaving it as a high back booster because while I think she's mostly developmentally ready, she still falls asleep in the car at night and/or during long car rides. Ugh.

[icedcoffee]

I agree with everything everyone is saying, but I'd like to add...that maybe these companies could make car seats a little more user friendly. I am fortunate that I have the time, money, education, etc. to properly research, purchase, install, and put my kid into a car seat, but I realize this is not the norm. Like...why are there so many rules and why are the car seats so difficult to get properly positioned. And then they sell all these accessories, but don't tell people they're actually not safe. What we need is someone to invent a car seat that you don't need to be Einstein to figure out. Basically a car seat for idiots. I doubt most people know the height and weight limits of their seat in each mode.

Even my SIL who is pretty in touch with things had my nephew in his infant bucket seat when he had clearly outgrown it. When I asked why she said "well---the bucket seat is the safest so we're going to use it as long as he fits". I pointed out that he's probably outgrown it by height and it's no longer safe.  She also flipped him FF right at 3 saying he had no room for his long legs, but that's not actually why you would flip him.  That would be for height or weight.

I don't know. DS1 is still RFing at 3.25. I will say it's getting really annoying and I'm about ready to flip him. He always wants to get in by himself and it's a big messy ordeal and then he pulls on the headrest of the carseat to get himself in, but it's made out of styrafoam so I'm worried he's going to break the headrest. Would be much easier to FF at this point I think. I'm definitely doing it by June when I move DS2 from his bucket to DS1's seat.

[ohgillian]

Feb 6, 2020 9:23:59 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

turbo , it's really interesting because I feel like the thinking on this changed pretty recently and more education is needed. My oldest is almost 5 and my sisters kids are 10 and 12. My sister could *NOT* understand why I rear-faced at over 1 year. When her kids were little (which wasn't that long ago!) she flipped them right at 12 months and I guess so did everyone she knew. It was so weird because she was so supportive about everything else, but she totally judged me (and still does) about car seats. I kept DD1 rear-facing until almost 3 and now she's in a harnessed forward facing seat. I think by now her kids were in seatbelt boosters. I tried explaining how much safer it is and she was like "my kids were fine". I was shocked at how quickly she dismissed it.

Being on this forum has helped reinforce it a lot. My friend wanted to keep her DD rear-facing, but her H "had it" at 2 and flipped her forward. It was so weird. I do think it is easier to get the kids in and out once they are forward facing, but the convenience isn't worth the safety risk to do it early to me.

To be honest, much of what I know about safe parenting practices has come from online. It certainly hasn't come from peers or our pediatrician. 

[kath16]

so, here's a question -- we don't use the Latch anymore because it says it maxes out at 45lbs. one of my booster seats doesn't even have a LATCH hook or whatever you'd call it.

should i be doing anything about this?

[VillainV]

Feb 6, 2020 9:25:40 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This is horrifying. I don't have Evenflo seats and didn't read the entire article yet, but DD1 is in Graco Tranzitions seat in the harness mode in both of our cars. She's 6yo and well under 65 pounds, which is the metric I've been mindful of. But then I got to the point in the article that talked about how most harness booster seats can accommodate up to 49" in height and I damn near panicked. I think DD1 is 49" and might actually be taller, shit. I'm measuring her as soon as we get home later. I'm not comfortable removing the harness yet and leaving it as a high back booster because while I think she's mostly developmentally ready, she still falls asleep in the car at night and/or during long car rides. Ugh.

Keep in mind they can’t incorporate all shapes and sizes of kids in the recommendations. My five-year old has a looooonnnggggg torso at at 49” has maxed out the top harness slot on the Graco Nautilus. He’s 58 pounds, and is likely “fine” in a HBB. My sister’s five-year-old is 49” and has a short torso and long legs, and has plenty of time before he maxes out the top harness slot because of his short sitting height. He’s closer to 45 pounds, and really still needs to be harnessed. So not all 49” tall five-year-olds are created equal.

[ohgillian]

Feb 6, 2020 9:42:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

so, here's a question -- we don't use the Latch anymore because it says it maxes out at 45lbs. one of my booster seats doesn't even have a LATCH hook or whatever you'd call it.

should i be doing anything about this?

What type of booster? A LATCH install isn't any safer than a properly done seatbelt install; LATCH was made to help people get it right more easily.


Do you mean a backless booster? They don't hook in unless there's a kind I don't know about.

A high back booster installed properly with a seatbelt is fine to use if your child is the right size to be high back.

[hamster]

I'm not confident in my knowledge of booster rules, but I'm always shocked at how many kids I see in a non harnessed and even backless boosters. Like, there's no way that's appropriate for many of these kids.

I think many people don't realize it's not really about size, but thinks like maturity and spinal cord development.

When it comes to rear facing, people know it's safer but often think their kid is "too tall." It's a frequent conversation I have to have with H. He is not uncomfortable and a broken leg is better than a broken spine.
That said I'm starting to consider flipping him (28m) solely because I think it would be easier on my back.

[pooh8402]

Feb 6, 2020 9:42:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

so, here's a question -- we don't use the Latch anymore because it says it maxes out at 45lbs. one of my booster seats doesn't even have a LATCH hook or whatever you'd call it.

should i be doing anything about this?

The seatbelt holds your kid in the car. The booster just helps your kid fit in the seatbelt correctly. When a booster has the lower anchor attachments, the only purpose of them is to prevent the unoccupied booster seat itself from becoming a projectile in an accident. As long as you buckle the booster seat in when you kid is not riding in it, you don't need the lower anchor attachments.

[simpsongal]

just to piggyback - what age/size did you switch to a 5 pt harness like a frontier? DD is small and I don't see us doing it soon (she's 3 + 4 months in a forward facing convertible).

ETA: We just switched DS to a booster - he's 6.

[pooh8402]

Feb 6, 2020 9:53:53 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

just to piggyback - what age/size did you switch to a 5 pt harness like a frontier? DD is small and I don't see us doing it soon (she's 3 + 4 months in a forward facing convertible).

You're already in a 5 pt harness. She can stay in her convertible until she outgrows it, then you can switch her to a high back booster.

[icedcoffee]

Feb 6, 2020 9:53:53 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

just to piggyback - what age/size did you switch to a 5 pt harness like a frontier? DD is small and I don't see us doing it soon (she's 3 + 4 months in a forward facing convertible).

ETA: We just switched DS to a booster - he's 6.

High back booster with harness is the same as a forward facing convertible with harness.  No need to ever do it.

[dcn]

Feb 6, 2020 9:53:53 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

just to piggyback - what age/size did you switch to a 5 pt harness like a frontier? DD is small and I don't see us doing it soon (she's 3 + 4 months in a forward facing convertible).

ETA: We just switched DS to a booster - he's 6.

I only switched to a combination bc we needed new seats for ds2 when he outgrew the bucket. She can stay in the convertible until she outgrows/is ready for a high back booster.

[redheadk]

Feb 6, 2020 9:45:32 GMT -5 ohgillian said:

Feb 6, 2020 9:42:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

so, here's a question -- we don't use the Latch anymore because it says it maxes out at 45lbs. one of my booster seats doesn't even have a LATCH hook or whatever you'd call it.

should i be doing anything about this?

What type of booster? A LATCH install isn't any safer than a properly done seatbelt install; LATCH was made to help people get it right more easily.


Do you mean a backless booster? They don't hook in unless there's a kind I don't know about.

A high back booster installed properly with a seatbelt is fine to use if your child is the right size to be high back.

I specifically bought boosters that latch. It’s just to prevent the seat from becoming a projectile in a crash and from moving around in the car. I don’t have an issue with seats moving in my small suv but dh’s bmw has bucket-ish seats in the back and dd will knock the seat slightly askew getting it, making it impossible to buckle so then she has to crawl out of it to fix it. If it’s latched tightly, we don’t have that problem. I keep a 2nd booster in the car for friends most of the time so I like that it’s attached to the car. You can also just buckle the seatbelt across the empty seat for the same reason.

[simpsongal]

dcn, icedcoffee, pooh8402, is it a height thing then?

We already have Britax Frontier/Pioneer highback boosters from DS waiting for DD. I guess the difference is they seem more like a seat and DD could probably crawl in more easily. But she's like the size of a large 2 yr old....so I'm in no rush to move her into those.

[macmars45]

Feb 6, 2020 9:53:53 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

just to piggyback - what age/size did you switch to a 5 pt harness like a frontier? DD is small and I don't see us doing it soon (she's 3 + 4 months in a forward facing convertible).

ETA: We just switched DS to a booster - he's 6.

We have a convertible graco headwise that goes to 65 lbs and a 5 point harness high back booster graco tranzitions that goes to at least 100 lbs. DS (3.75) rides in both depending on which car we're driving around.

[pandora89]

Thats nuts that side impact isnt tested in the US. I just checked the Government of Canada website to confirm, and thankfully they do. I guess this explains why so many carseats available in the US are not available here in Canada.

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 6, 2020 10:03:33 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

dcn , icedcoffee , pooh8402 , is it a height thing then?

We already have Britax Frontier/Pioneer highback boosters from DS waiting for DD. I guess the difference is they seem more like a seat and DD could probably crawl in more easily. But she's like the size of a large 2 yr old....so I'm in no rush to move her into those.

I thought pretty much one of the only differences is that the convertible seat does just that - it converts from rear-facing to forward-facing whereas the combination seats (like harness-to-booster seats) do not. 

We only switched after accidents (never when they were in the car, just when my car got hit and we needed to replace the seats anyway) and for DD2, she's already in a Chicco MyFit Zip at 2.5 because her Chicco NextFit got so gross from all of her puking in the car, since she'd eventually need a booster anyway and it has high limits (but also low enough that she still can be in this seat at her age and measurements...or maybe not after this horrifying article).

[Velar Fricative]

Feb 6, 2020 10:18:46 GMT -5 pandora89 said:

Thats nuts that side impact isnt tested in the US. I just checked the Government of Canada website to confirm, and thankfully they do. I guess this explains why so many carseats available in the US are not available here in Canada.

I feel like I should now see what's on the market in Canada.

[Velar Fricative]

I just checked Walmart's Canadian site and they seem to have a ton of Evenflo car seats at least. So I'm not sure where the differences lie yet.

[kath16]

Feb 6, 2020 9:45:32 GMT -5 ohgillian said:

Feb 6, 2020 9:42:22 GMT -5 kath16 said:

so, here's a question -- we don't use the Latch anymore because it says it maxes out at 45lbs. one of my booster seats doesn't even have a LATCH hook or whatever you'd call it.

should i be doing anything about this?

What type of booster? A LATCH install isn't any safer than a properly done seatbelt install; LATCH was made to help people get it right more easily.


Do you mean a backless booster? They don't hook in unless there's a kind I don't know about.

A high back booster installed properly with a seatbelt is fine to use if your child is the right size to be high back.

he's in a high back. our 4-in-one had a spot for the Latch of course, but the HBB we purchased did not.

[waverly]

I've always followed the laws and best practices that I have found online. However, I have older kids so those did change between kid 1 and kid 2, and we attempted to follow them through the change. I also had to fight a bit with DH about it.

Not every parent keep up with these things. Once I saw a kid on a motorcycle. My sister was a car seat fanatic for what the regulations were back then and always pulling the harnesses super tight, but then lets her kids ride dirt bikes now. Makes no sense.

I see an issue with the faulty advertising. Our state doesn't allow booster unless they are at least 40 pounds, so definitely not following the laws here at 30 pounds. It would be great if the seats could be side impact tested as well. DD is now in a backless booster, so I am assuming no side impact help really just what the seatbelt does, but with a high back booster or an infant carseat/ convertible carseat there is the assumption that they would help in case of side impact. I assumed that anyway.