I currently have my rainbow flag up in honor of pride month and the Obergefell decision. On July 1, I'll put up my American flag. It's probably up about 2/3 of the time. The idea that only republicans or Trumpers or conservatives can fly the flag really bothers me, in the same way that Republicans seem to think you can't be Christian and liberal.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Jun 29, 2020 8:09:07 GMT -5
I don’t necessarily make assumptions about political affiliation if it’s just one flag, but I do if it looks like the USA threw up over their house.
That said, I will not fly the American flag. While I am grateful to have been born in a country that offers freedoms I might not have elsewhere, I am not proud to be an American and do not like our history nor where we are today. I also recognize this is controversial. I also will not say the Pledge of Allegiance.
I refuse to let our nation’s flag become a symbol of just Trumpers. All the 45* supporters in my neighborhood fly both an American flag and a MAGA flag. That’s gross. We have always flown a flag at our house. We have one by our mailbox, too, with our political signs that clearly indicate a liberal household.
My dad always hung an American flag outside our house. I was born on 7/4. Flag stuff has always been around me growing up. My dad used to hang the Union Jack outside our house for the week leading up to July 4th. When night fell on July 3, he’d put up the American flag so the neighborhood would wake up to see the change.
What about the pledge of allegiance? Do you say it?
The last school I worked out didn’t do it, but this school does it every morning. I do not say it (for a plethora of reasons, one of which is the “under god” part), but I stand silently.
It plays over our intercom every morning along with a "moment of silence." I stand silently but do not say it. About 1/3-1/2 of my first hour class says it, depending on the class. The rest stand silently. Occasionally, I'll have a couple students remain seated (which is fine).
@@ Once the teacher across the hall from me came to me saying shit about how I didn't require all my students to verbally say the Pledge (her daughter was in my 1st hour class and must have complained to her about it), and I definitely put her in her place about that.
ETA: We fly a Cubs flag in the summer. Lots of people around here fly American flags. I don't think too much of it when I see them.
I haven’t said it since college. It’s supposed to be said every morning in class, but I don’t require that my students say it. I do ask that they remain standing respectfully while others do.
Why do you want them to stand? They're not required to do Jack shit
@ We stand up to say the school leader motto. The pledge comes right after and we’re already standing. Notice that I said “ask”. You said “require.” I’ve never once punished or scolded a child for sitting back down.
@ I like the flag and respect it. I have represented the U.S. for a few things in my life (like competitions when I was a teenager) and I have felt a reverence, weight, and responsibility towards the U.S. flag. I’m also an optimist and think of it as aspirational, of what we as a nation can be (not necessarily just about what we have been and currently are). We do say the pledge before Girl Scout meetings (along with the Girl Scout promise and law, though I have always stressed that they can leave off the “serve God” part of the promise) but I will think about making this more of a discretionary activity.
We have a flag mount at our house but don’t fly the U.S. flag that often, because 1) if it gets windy, it may come down and 2) I’m not always feeling so rah-rah these days. I think the last time I put it up was halfway through Flag Day, and we will probably fly it on the 4th. (I probably should have put it out for Juneteenth too, now that I’m thinking about it.) Several of my closer in neighbors have American flags too, but at least two families are immigrants. I don’t assume they or anyone else with a flag is automatically a Trump supporter.
I don't automatically think "trumper", but I reserve judgment when I see a flag every day. On my street we have 2 people who have the flag up regularly. One is a trumper who is ALL about displays of bullshit (my voting precinct went 80%+ for Clinton so I suppose he feels he's got something to prove?). The other displays it next to a Pride flag or flag from their college, or, lately, a BLM flag.
It depends entirely on the context. Random house with a flag? No, I don't think Trumper. In conjunction with a Thin Blue Line flag, yes Trumper. Or if it's flying on the back of a truck? Trumper (or at least idiot hick around here). Flag sticker? Trumper.
I had to remind a colleague just last year that the Supreme Court decided quite a long time ago that students are not required to stand for or say the pledge.
I do follow a woman on Instagram who sews and decided to make her own US flag after the last election because she was so upset, and used it as a way to try to find her love for the flag and country again. I thought that was interesting.
Why do you want them to stand? They're not required to do Jack shit
We stand up to say the school leader motto. The pledge comes right after and we’re already standing. Notice that I said “ask”. You said “require.” I’ve never once punished or scolded a child for sitting back down.
I do know the difference between ask and require. Why do you ask/ want? is my question. They're not required by law, so why do you say anything? Do they know that it's 100% optional? A teacher asking is often perceived as required. Surely I don't need to explain that.
If, let's say, your boss at the NFL asks you to stand for the anthem but you take a knee instead. Surely there would be no perceived power differential, right? It's a mere request. No repercussions. But then add the constitution on top, rather than a private employer. What could possibly be misunderstood?
So, why do you care enough to even ask? I sincerely hope the kids defy your inappropriate request
Super creepy. How young did most of us learn it? Looong before we knew the meaning of a lot of the words let alone context or impact.
I appreciate that when I, on occasion, attended classes when visiting my non American family teachers made it a point to tell me before the day started that they'd say a pledge and motto and that I was not at all expected to join. This was not in a liberal country. For all i know their students were required. Christian education is still compulsory. FFS they still caned kids. But nationalism creeped them out, I think, something I was entirely ignorant of as a kid and as a young adult.
I really appreciate today those drawing a distinction between nationalism and patriotism. And those displaying BLM and pride right along with usa.
I come from a military family. The flag has always flown at my parents' house. I think of my dad when I see the flag. My dad was so pissed when he saw it co-opted by Trumpers as a weapon. We put up our flag on the 4th of July, Memorial Day, and Veterans' Day.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jun 29, 2020 10:34:16 GMT -5
I definitely assume they're Trumpers. I know I shouldn't, but these days I do. I know I shouldn't cede the flag to them, but despite being the child of immigrants and being very happy I'm not living where they came from, I'm not super attached to the flag enough to want to reclaim it.
We stand up to say the school leader motto. The pledge comes right after and we’re already standing. Notice that I said “ask”. You said “require.” I’ve never once punished or scolded a child for sitting back down.
I do know the difference between ask and require. Why do you ask/ want? is my question. They're not required by law, so why do you say anything? Do they know that it's 100% optional? A teacher asking is often perceived as required. Surely I don't need to explain that.
If, let's say, your boss at the NFL asks you to stand for the anthem but you take a knee instead. Surely there would be no perceived power differential, right? It's a mere request. No repercussions. But then add the constitution on top, rather than a private employer. What could possibly be misunderstood?
So, why do you care enough to even ask? I sincerely hope the kids defy your inappropriate request
@ Since we probably should have been doing it before. In the morning my students sit in a circle of chairs for our morning meeting. When announcements come on, we listen, stand and recite the school motto. The pledge comes on. Those who say it, do. Those who don’t, I ask that they remain respectful of those saying it. Generally, if a student sits, they do so in order to goof off. I never said a word until one of my students began using it as an opportunity to be disrespectful. I’m aware of the power differential, and I also have to maintain class order. It’s a fine line to balance.
I wouldn't think to make an assumption. We have a flag and are not Trumpers. My parents have a MASSIVE flagpole - I'm talking cemented in the ground, would need a backhoe to get it out - and they're not Trumpers. Around here, Trumpers usually have a Trump flag flying as well (and at the same height as the American flag ugh. You'd think with all they're patriotism they'd at least know the etiquette LOL.) And flags on vehicles - usually a massive obnoxious truck or a shitty truck - are always Trumpers.
Why even make the ask? Why not start the year with a statement like, “During the pledge, please respect your peers. If you choose to stand silently or sit silently, I expect you’ll be given respect for your choice. Those who wish to say it, I expect you’ll be given the respect of silence.”
I taught 8th grade. Most kids didn’t know they had a choice. I never had an issue with kids using it to goof off. Some kids stood and said it. Others stood silently. Others say silently. No issue in 10 years. I stood silently. It creeps me out.
Yes if your flag is all over your car than probably a Trumper. A modest flag off a front porch I don’t think anything except they have a flag.
I would like to amend my answer to include this. One flag flying in a normal place: no assumptions. Giant ass truck flag, esp with a don’t tread on me flag: assumptions will be made, probably accurately.
delurking to share that back in January, my husband and I spent the weekend in Napa. One night we were walking back to our hotel from a restaurant in downtown Napa and we saw a huge, tricked out pick up truck coming down the street flying a big flag in the back. I grew up in a redneck town in VA and I instantly thought "ugh, not here, too!" and then as the truck got close, we saw it was a pride flag!! I was so surprised and delighted that I forgot to take a picture!
I do think that “American exceptionalism” is something that we’re all indoctrinated with to some degree. Other countries are proud of their history, of course, but we really buy into this idea that we were founded on higher-purpose ideals of “liberty and justice for all” and that our flag is a “symbol of freedom.” Also, our march across the west was “manifest destiny,” not a mass displacement and murder of indigenous peoples. The bold “American experiment.”
Then the modern-day stereotype about Americans is that we show up somewhere and expect everyone to speak to us in English and serve us drip coffee at breakfast. So while I still don’t know if I buy that we’re “flag obsessed,” I do see how patriotism and nationalism can look very similar in the U.S., particularly to an outsider.
Post by DesertMoon on Jun 29, 2020 12:38:08 GMT -5
Its never crossed my mind that loving America or displaying her flag is only for Republicans or trump supporters. I only think oh theres a trumper if they have a bumper sticker or maga hat or some all lives matter stuff.
Its never crossed my mind that loving America or displaying her flag is only for Republicans or trump supporters. I only think oh theres a trumper if they have a bumper sticker or maga hat or some all lives matter stuff.
It’s also not only for military. Since 9/11 I think many have tied the flag specifically to having respect for our military. I’m specifically thinking of displays at major sporting events, and about how Colin Kaepernick’s kneeling has been decried as “disrespectful to the military.”
I think people in the military are exposed to the flag more — it’s on our uniform, we have daily rituals around the raising and lowering of the flag, it is required to be present at many of our important ceremonies — but it’s not OURS. It wasn’t designed to represent the military at all.
Post by BlondeSpiders on Jun 29, 2020 12:49:42 GMT -5
I haven't read any replies yet...
We recently installed a 2nd flagpole on our rental house. We've had the one flag up for several years now, and it changed from Pride flag in the summer to Seahawks flag in the fall/winter. We added a 2nd flagpole so Jesse could fly his 49ers flag (boo!) at the same time.
But yesterday we bought an American flag to fly. We talked about it and decided it was shitty how MAGAts and super-conservative assholes have co-opted the flag. Because when I see a flag, I tend to assume it's a right-wing nutjob. But I want to take that back. Of course, the placement coincides with the 4th on Saturday, but we plan to leave it up until September when our division rivals will battle it out.
To people who don't know us, I'd imagine a Progress Pride flag and American flag look funny on the same house.
ETA: these aren't big flag poles planted in the ground, but brackets on our porch posts.
I do think that “American exceptionalism” is something that we’re all indoctrinated with to some degree. Other countries are proud of their history, of course, but we really buy into this idea that we were founded on higher-purpose ideals of “liberty and justice for all” and that our flag is a “symbol of freedom.” Also, our march across the west was “manifest destiny,” not a mass displacement and murder of indigenous peoples. The bold “American experiment.”
The then the modern-day stereotype about Americans is that we show up somewhere and expect everyone to speak to us in English and serve us drip coffee at breakfast. So while I still don’t know if I buy that we’re “flag obsessed,” I do see how patriotism and nationalism can look very similar in the U.S., particularly to an outsider.
This is digressing from the topic at hand but it’s funny because any time I’m somewhere where I can speak the local language people just end up responding in English anyway (sometimes because they want to practice their own English).
Interesting topic. It's come up recently in conversations with my family. A few weeks ago, I noticed a house in our neighborhood had an American flag attached to the outside of their privacy fence. They live in a corner house so they have a large fence. I mentioned to H as we drove by, in the past I wouldn't think anything of it, but now I wonder if a really conservative person lives there - and what a shame that they have co-opted the flag and patriotism.
@@@ last week, MIL was taking the kids to the park and asked if I had a plastic tablecloth. The only one I had was from the 4th of July with flags on it. I told her people might think she's a trumper if she uses it.
I grew up in a politically moderate to liberal (blue collar Democrat) family. My dad was not in the military but his dad was a WWI vet, 1 of his brothers was in the Army during Vietnam and another was in the Navy. We flew the American flag at our house quite regularly. My H has no interest in flying the flag - even pre-Trump. I go back and forth on it due to America's ugly history. But now I'm leaning toward getting one to fly right along side our BLM sign.
Post by foundmylazybum on Jun 29, 2020 13:45:31 GMT -5
I work with people who, in the past year have become American citizens after years of waiting and working towards that outcome. I also worked with Soldiers in the Army who joined the military and gained citizenship that way.
It's interesting to read a lot of these responses and to think about their first hand thoughts about citizenship and even what these symbols represent.
Post by irishbride2 on Jun 29, 2020 14:59:39 GMT -5
I will say when I see a large flag (not just a small port of call flag) on a boat, I assume they love Trump. It’s like they are having a size contest lately.