From The Atlantic today on our messaging re: the Covid vaccine.
I'm curious to hear what our EU posters have seen in terms of the social-media campaign referenced, and whether there is as much vaccine hesitancy as we have in the US? Not that the two are necessarily connected, but I'm curious. I know the vaccine hesitancy issues we have in the US are multi-faceted/complex.
Vaccinated People Are Going to Hug Each Other The vaccines are phenomenal. Belaboring their imperfections—and telling people who receive them never to let down their guard—carries its own risks.
ETA: the quote below has a couple of brief @@@ references.
I will admit that I am confused about the vaccine. My H got vaccinated (he works in healthcare). His parents will be eligible in February and we're hoping to get them appts as soon as possible. Once they are fully vaccinated (say 2 weeks after 2nd dose), would it be safe for H to go visit them? They've been locked down alone 30 mins from us for months. We saw them a few times over the summer, but they are so lonely. I think it is safe, but then I have no idea because the messaging is very confusing.
@@@ My parents are getting the vaccine in FL. They joked that after their second dose they want to drive up to visit us. Is that safe? I'm assuming not since my kids and I won't be vaccinated until much later.
ETA: We haven't really told anyone that my H got the vaccine. He works for a hospital in IT and has been working from home. But the state opened up the vaccine to all hospital employees (regardless of job function, WFH, etc) last week. His boss told him to get it, so he did. We're keeping it to ourselves because obviously, people will judge and probably deem him "unworthy" of receiving it. But he was offered, legally, so he took it. <shrug>
Noodleoo you shouldn't have guilt for him getting it, he was offered it by his employer. I know there are so many people out there guilting people (I hope what I said up there didn't contribute) but vaccines in arms is a good thing. I felt guilty going in while still on leave but I thought I might get to go back in a couple weeks so I wanted to be ready. This is all been really hard mentally
noodleoo we have invited my in laws to come visit after they have both doses and have waited the appropriate time after the second shot. We will also resume seeing my parents (they are local). I know we don't *know* for sure that people that have been vaccinated can't still transmit COVID but it seems the chances are slim. Our concern has been primarily for their health, not ours as none of us are high risk. It will be several more months before my husband and I can get vaccinated (I'm phase 4, he's the last phase).
Everyone has a different level of comfort with risk levels though. I don't think there is really one "right" answer here, because mental health and aging are serious factors to consider. I'm not wasting any time with my parents once they are vaccinated.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 27, 2021 14:18:07 GMT -5
I talked to my dad in FL today. Publix got 100k doses for the state. I think it opened up at 6am today. My mom had 4 windows open at 530 to refresh continually. All slots were taken within like a minute. It was like old school ticketmaster. So 69 year old dad (happy bday, dad) living with an immune compromised wife in FL still can't get his. At least they finally make you prove you're a resident or long term seasonal resident and not just someone vacationing.
Dad was impressed so many elderly could use the online system. All I could think about was this board doing all the online stuff for parents and grandparents. Dad's a computer engineer, so no problem there at least. I should let him know I'm happy to try from here for those early morning starts since that's my dinner time.
I talked to my dad in FL today. Publix got 100k doses for the state. I think it opened up at 6am today. My mom had 4 windows open at 530 to refresh continually. All slots were taken within like a minute. It was like old school ticketmaster. So 69 year old dad (happy bday, dad) living with an immune compromised wife in FL still can't get his. At least they finally make you prove you're a resident or long term seasonal resident and not just someone vacationing.
Dad was impressed so many elderly could use the online system. All I could think about was this board doing all the online stuff for parents and grandparents. Dad's a computer engineer, so no problem there at least. I should let him know I'm happy to try from here for those early morning starts since that's my dinner time.
Publix was a dead end for a lot of people. I have had success at the local health department clinics (I got my parents and several elderly friends in). In which county do they reside?
Post by formerlyak on Jan 27, 2021 14:26:22 GMT -5
noodleoo, I get the guilt. I felt guilty as well, but the county where I work opened it up to all who work in the education sector that either work or live in that county. I only teach one class, and it's online, but my full-time role is also in education and is public facing during normal times and I have a BMI that puts me in the at risk category. So when I was able to get an appointment at a county clinic, I signed up. But I felt so guilty, even though I met the criteria to get the vaccine.
basilosaurus, every "old" I know who got an appointment here when they opened for 65+ last week got it because they had a kid doing it for them. I have no doubts that my parents would have been able to navigate the system and get an appointment, but the speed at which it needed to be done in order to beat others through the sign up form and secure the spot was easier for those of us who spend all day working on a computer. I got appointment for my parents, my mother in law, parents' friends and neighbors.
But you can't possibly know. And even if you could, a) it's not your business and b) every single person who could even remotely be considered an expert has said that shots in arms is a good thing.
Note-- I was able to get vaxxed because I'm one of those people who has a friend who said, hurry, sign up, we are dumping doses at the end of the day and we shouldn't be wasting them. I was told emphatically that I was not stepping on anyone's toes. And I felt no guilt since I'm being forced back to in-person school this week. I signed up and have other friends who were able to as well, at the last minute.
Maybe I’m feeling extra salty because our teachers are having trouble getting appointments (teachers are currently eligible). So this is further delaying the opening of schools (we’ve been closed since March). And I had to pull one of my kids because virtual was not working for him, so now I’m homeschooling and working full time until schools go back in person. So the more that people cut in line and take appointments from teachers, the longer it will be before they open schools. So right now, it feels like the kids are never going to go back because they can’t even manage to get appointments for those who are currently eligible.
I hear you. But everyone is salty these days, for good reason. I really think we just need to come from a place of assuming good intentions. Of course not everyone deserves that, but I think most probably do.
For the record, I am a teacher, and I have been forced back to in person school this week.
In my industry there is a lot of confusion on whether we are on the list at all, are essential 1b or essential 1c. We are a smaller industry so we are not listed. Our lobbying arm has not been helpful. They have essentially said reach out to your local health department. Our local health departments are obviously too busy to respond. There is an "other" category, but does that include us?
So I decided to go, and see if they would accept me. I flashed my work badge to everyone I could see. I clearly stated my occupation and said I didn't know if it went under this category or that category. They put me in the essential worker "other" category. I live in the corner of where the counties come together, so the county next to mine which is less than 5 miles away specifically states my occupation, but the one I live in and work in does not specifically state it. I mean it is very much not clear. I wouldn't assume all people are trying to jump the line. I am a manager, and just trying to get answers for my staff which designation we are in.
I know there was a story here where they were mad some defense attorneys got ahead of some people in the jails, but I think the only way to prevent that is to lock it down more to just jails (in that case, not overall). But the health departments are just trying to get shot in arms, so they don't really want to send people away unless they are not definitely not essential workers.
basilosaurus I still haven't been able to get my grandparents appts in Florida - they're in their 80s and 90s with cancer (grandma) and a pacemaker (grandpa). I've been setting alarms for 2:55am PST to log on for the 6:00am EST opening every time Publix releases new doses with zero luck. I actually got in "line" today at 2:59am PST since they opened a little early but never made it to the appointment scheduling phase. It's really exhausting.
noodleoo personally I'm being more cautious because 1) the people I want to protect the most don't have the vaccine 2) I disagree that the chances of transmission after vaccination are "slim" (I think based on the incredibly limited data we have from Moderna, there should be some reduction in spread but I think it's a stretch to call it slim, especially knowing how the vaccine works versus where the viral particles tend to replicate and chill out) and 3) we are so close to an expected and significant decline in cases.
I'd be fine visiting local people outside with masks. I'd even be fine with in-laws driving and staying in an airbnb and doing outdoor activities with masks. I'm personally not ready for out of state guests or indoor massless gatherings, because I think we are so close to the end and so close to more information that can help us accurately assess our risks when we are interacting with the non-vaccinated people we love.
I talked to my dad in FL today. Publix got 100k doses for the state. I think it opened up at 6am today. My mom had 4 windows open at 530 to refresh continually. All slots were taken within like a minute. It was like old school ticketmaster. So 69 year old dad (happy bday, dad) living with an immune compromised wife in FL still can't get his. At least they finally make you prove you're a resident or long term seasonal resident and not just someone vacationing.
Dad was impressed so many elderly could use the online system. All I could think about was this board doing all the online stuff for parents and grandparents. Dad's a computer engineer, so no problem there at least. I should let him know I'm happy to try from here for those early morning starts since that's my dinner time.
Publix was a dead end for a lot of people. I have had success at the local health department clinics (I got my parents and several elderly friends in). In which county do they reside?
Collier. Their city didn't get many doses. The FD (which is administering) was only taking messages for the first 500 with callbacks to determine eligibility. Nearly half of their city is 65+, so about 10k people. 100 doses to be delivered the first day.
basilosaurus , every "old" I know who got an appointment here when they opened for 65+ last week got it because they had a kid doing it for them. I have no doubts that my parents would have been able to navigate the system and get an appointment, but the speed at which it needed to be done in order to beat others through the sign up form and secure the spot was easier for those of us who spend all day working on a computer. I got appointment for my parents, my mother in law, parents' friends and neighbors.
My parents are both incredibly adept at navigating online. My dad's online presence went back to text only usenet days. We had dialup in the 80s lol. I think my dad just thought that would help them out and was surprised it didn't. So, yeah, I did tell him it was likely a younger relative helping. He said, oh, that makes sense. And then hung up to go to senior hour at costco
This vaccine scheduling debacle has really made me think about the future. There are several couples without children in my family (aunts/uncles) where my brother and I are the only "kids" in the family or I am the healthcare power of attorney. I realized that I need to not just think about these things for my parents but for 7 adults as they age. My brother is great, but he won't since he struggles with health related things. I felt really guilty I didn't find appointments for them already, and hopefully I can do better in the future.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 27, 2021 15:41:27 GMT -5
I know I've kind of bragged, really just for comparison purposes since people off this board ask me constantly about what makes us different, about our excellent government response. From Apr-Sep we had zero new local cases, prior total 4. Sept brought 3 from out of state. By 2 weeks ago total was 16 in the past year-ish. Last week alone we had 25 new, not total. That's a huge relative spike. Within a month we more than quadrupled the numbers on an island in full lockdown.
And you know what the local FB group brought me? A thread calling our lockdown, which is nationwide, the 3rd reich. And some more very anti-science things that are 100% wrong. Sadly, it's not just an American thing. At least people, at least in public, follow guidelines. I have to imagine the increase is from people thinking gatherings at home are nbd, just like they think was happening with some spikes in US. Police and military are enforcing roadblocks because we're restricted to 10km travel unless necessary. They're also roaming grocery stores just like in March to enforce masks and no more than 2 people from the same household anywhere, even in cars. Single only in grocery stores.
Post by bugandbibs on Jan 27, 2021 16:02:40 GMT -5
noodleoo, I would be comfortable with your husband visiting his parents after they are all vaccinated as long as they all still wore masks. We still don’t know enough about efficacy and transmission, but masks reduce the amount of viral load that someone is exposed to. I would wear the best mask you can get your hands on.
I would wait to while you are unvaccinated until we have clearer data.
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2021 16:08:01 GMT -5 by bugandbibs
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I just got home from volunteering at a drive-through vaccination clinic. For Michigan in January, the weather wasn't bad. Only about 25 degrees, but super sunny. I had on lots of layers and good boots, so I stayed warm. I was not offered the vaccine.
I was assigned to work in the registration area. My fellow volunteers and I took paperwork to people waiting in line in their cars, and once it was completed we were to ask for their ID and insurance card to verify their name, DOB, and insurance info. If they were under 65, we were supposed to verify their employer, but were given no instructions on how to verify it or what employers "counted." We also asked them if they had any allergies or had been given any other vaccines in the past 14 days. Then we gave the their vaccination record card and told them when their return appointment would be.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Jan 27, 2021 18:47:20 GMT -5
Add me to the list of people wondering when essential workers will be defined. H and I will both possibly be 1c (other essential workers) but this category seems to include literally everyone so who knows. We are both in critical manufacturing. H's is actually critical (medical). Mine is not so much actually critical but technically qualifies as basically all manufacturing qualifies.
So far our state is just doing frontline workers, by age, and teachers, from what I can tell. And they've been saying "more info coming" for months.
Post by breezy8407 on Jan 27, 2021 18:51:48 GMT -5
SusanBAnthony I've seen my profession defined as essential, too, as part of the construction industry. (health safety welfare) But I certainly don't feel essential. I guess someone on my team has to travel to sites, but you could argue whether I qualify as that person.
Do any of you remember the at home rapid test that gives results at home (don’t have to mail to a lab). A close contact doesn’t think they have Covid, but are getting tested. I’d like to get tested too but we have no symptoms so most won’t give us a rapid test here. Testing just out of an abundance of caution since she isn’t positive.
Do any of you remember the at home rapid test that gives results at home (don’t have to mail to a lab). A close contact doesn’t think they have Covid, but are getting tested. I’d like to get tested too but we have no symptoms so most won’t give us a rapid test here. Testing just out of an abundance of caution since she isn’t positive.
My understanding of rapid tests is that they have a very high false negative rate, especially in asymptomatic individuals. I don’t think I’d bother taking one.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jan 27, 2021 21:22:53 GMT -5
Why scientists are worried about the variant that surfaced only a month ago in Manaus, Brazil which is devastating the city again after their previous awful outbreak may have infected up to 75% of residents (number reported by Brazilian scientists but might be in dispute). Sooooooo this might be a variant that can beat existing antibodies.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jan 27, 2021 21:44:26 GMT -5
We are in phase 1b (65+, teachers, first responders, law enforcement, transit workers, etc.). I heard at work a few people signed up for appointments because of the umbrella “education worker” category. We kind of are, but it’s possible they may be turned away when they get to the site. I have no idea if employment is being verified. DH said they didn’t ask for his ID or paystub or anything. TBH, given possible shortages of staff and volunteers at sites, they may just be focused on getting people in and out as quickly as possible. Not saying it’s right, but I understand if you can’t verify every single person. What if I was a former teacher - I could bring an old ID or old paystub, right?
Post by wanderingback on Jan 27, 2021 21:53:49 GMT -5
NYC is finally trying to address equity in a concrete manner. They're reserving appointments at 1 site for people in the neighborhood, which is a mostly Black and brown neighborhood. Most people who were getting vaccinated there were white and coming from all over.
"CBS2 reached out to New York-Presbyterian and received a written response Wednesday evening. It says, effective immediately, 100% of new appointments at the center will be for New York City residents and a minimum of 60% will be reserved for eligible residents of Washington Heights, Inwood, northern and central Harlem and the South Bronx."
NYC is finally trying to address equity in a concrete manner. They're reserving appointments at 1 site for people in the neighborhood, which is a mostly Black and brown neighborhood. Most people who were getting vaccinated there were white and coming from all over.
"CBS2 reached out to New York-Presbyterian and received a written response Wednesday evening. It says, effective immediately, 100% of new appointments at the center will be for New York City residents and a minimum of 60% will be reserved for eligible residents of Washington Heights, Inwood, northern and central Harlem and the South Bronx."
Seems like a much easier thing to verify too. Assign specific zip codes to a site so staff are only looking out for a specific zip and allow any kind of documentation to suffice (so not just picture ID; lease, utility bill, etc. could work too). Sure, someone could have moved elsewhere and has an old bill or old address on their license so it’s not 100% foolproof, but I feel like verifying employment leaves a lot more room for confusion.
Why scientists are worried about the variant that surfaced only a month ago in Manaus, Brazil which is devastating the city again after their previous awful outbreak may have infected up to 75% of residents (number reported by Brazilian scientists but might be in dispute). Sooooooo this might be a variant that can beat existing antibodies.
Why scientists are worried about the variant that surfaced only a month ago in Manaus, Brazil which is devastating the city again after their previous awful outbreak may have infected up to 75% of residents (number reported by Brazilian scientists but might be in dispute). Sooooooo this might be a variant that can beat existing antibodies.
Why scientists are worried about the variant that surfaced only a month ago in Manaus, Brazil which is devastating the city again after their previous awful outbreak may have infected up to 75% of residents (number reported by Brazilian scientists but might be in dispute). Sooooooo this might be a variant that can beat existing antibodies.
One case of the variant was already found in Minnesota by someone who recently traveled back from Brazil.
We aren't ever getting out of our houses, are we?
I might be overly optimistic, but I wouldn’t panic just yet. Vaccinated people are showing a much higher antibody response than even people who got severe COVID infections, which means even if some of the newer mutations help it escape some of the antibodies, vaccinated people still have more antibodies to fight it. We also don’t yet know if vaccinated people might possibly get a mutated version, but mount a stronger defense and therefore have a much more mild illness. The studies done using vaccinated (vs recovered COVID) serum against the mutations in the U.K. showed the vaccinated serum neutralized it. Plus, if COVID hit that area hard 10 months ago, it’s realistic to think that populations immunity is waning.
Also, this is exactly what mRNA vaccines were made for. They are made to be easily adapted and updated for changes to a virus. One more reason it’s so incredible that this science is available now. Don’t give up hope yet!
I may be jinxing myself here, but as a volunteer at the Disney super-site everyone has been very optimistic and nice while waiting in line for their appointments.
I just want this vaccine so bad. I'm a teacher and my district is supposed to be setting up a clinic for us in mid-Feb, but already warned us there may not be enough doses for all of us who want it.'
I live and work and different counties. So I also am trying my home county. Really the only way I could get it there right now is to get a slot at one of the pharmacies offering it. I have tried multiple times and it's always booked full. I saw on the news that each pharmacy (there are 4 I think doing it) only have 80 doses per day. So it makes sense why it is so hard to get an appointment.
I'm just worried if I can't get a dose through my district, when/how am I going to get this shot?