Wow, I never knew anything about the ball (ESPECIALLY that it's an ongoing event)! I grew up in South County and attended the VP Fair, airshow and fireworks every year growing up, never the parade though. I remember when they changed it to Fair St. Louis, knowing it had something to do with Veiled Prophet being racist, but I guess I assumed (naively) that meant the organization wasn't still a thing. And that was in 1992. So, Ellie Kemper knew damn well what it was all about in 1999, however, after being in Hollywood, I would hope/assume she's denounced any of that kind of allegiance, though I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
circa1978 , have you read that book? It sounds really interesting!
Do you remember when the KKK "adopted" part of 55 south, and it got renamed the Rosa Parks Hwy? I remember being so shocked that the KKK was anywhere near us, but again, I was naïve. I mean, I knew all about St. Louis' white flight and racism (both parents taught for STLPSD their entire careers and of course the "deseg" program), but always thought we weren't "Deliverance" territory.
I sure as hell learned my lesson when Normandy lost accreditation and their kids got to come out to our schools for a year or two. Holy shit, I was horrified and embarrassed to have moved out to the other side of the river.
There is a KKK chapter in my county (or so I've been told, I've never had direct contact with them to be clear) and I am directly adjacent to STL Co so yes, they're very much all over this area.
Ugh, that's really disheartening. But I guess not overly surprising thinking of a couple of the adjacent counties. Please tell me you aren't northwest though.
jlt19, the one about coming of age rituals? It was something I was hoping to write but I never did. I just think it's really interesting what different cultures define as adulthood and how it is marked. I'm particularly interested through a window of what it means to "be a woman," particularly now, but I don't think it's something most people are panting to read. If I ever get a Ph.D., maybe it will be my dissertation.
jlt19 , the one about coming of age rituals? It was something I was hoping to write but I never did. I just think it's really interesting what different cultures define as adulthood and how it is marked. I'm particularly interested through a window of what it means to "be a woman," particularly now, but I don't think it's something most people are panting to read. If I ever get a Ph.D., maybe it will be my dissertation.
No, I meant the book discussed in the RFT article, The St. Louis Veiled Prophet Celebration: Power on Parade 1877-1995, BUT I want to read what you have in mind too! We had a lunch and learn last week, Judaism 101, and it was so interesting. It definitely spurred me to learn more about bar and bat mitzvah's and what it all means (other than big parties that my West County nieces seem to go to all the time).
Lol, Ellie Kemper wasn't in a cult, this is just St. Louis. St. Louis is insane. It is easily the most racist place I have ever lived (and I've lived in Boston). Power is funneled to the top, and systematically stripped from black citizens. I mean it's the same everywhere, but in St. Louis, it seemed extreme to me.
Did Ellie Kemper participate in and benefit from the bedrock of racism in St. Louis? Yes, but so does every white person in St. Louis. So does every white person in America, yet we go about living our lives. I feel like white people are happy to shame Ellie Kemper on Twitter as a way to separate themselves from racism (as if that is possible). But really none of us would look too great if an impartial observer were to look at our family history, and at things we did when we were kids, and at things we still benefit from now.
There is a KKK chapter in my county (or so I've been told, I've never had direct contact with them to be clear) and I am directly adjacent to STL Co so yes, they're very much all over this area.
Ugh, that's really disheartening. But I guess not overly surprising thinking of a couple of the adjacent counties. Please tell me you aren't northwest though.
I take 44 to Eureka or 100 to Chesterfield
Hope that helps
The KKK chapter that I've been informed exists is SW of me down 44 a bit (but still my county)
My area continues to be racist, covid denying sacks of shit though so it's everywhere.
I live right outside of West County and I have never heard of this... I am far enough away from the city though I've never attended these events.
This is crazy. So Ellie was in a real world cult just like her character, huh?
I do have to say, I am not surprised, knowing West County lol
To the part of was Ellie in a cult - I think in as much as she was raised privileged, wealthy and white - yes.
I think she’s more akin to the other example in this thread - Rory Gilmore than she is to her character on her show though.
Yeah, the "cult" would be St. Louis high society. Fucked up in a lot of ways but lacking the hallmarks of a cult. I have distant relatives who are in that world but I don't know that any of them have been involved with the VP nonsense.
jlt19, the one about coming of age rituals? It was something I was hoping to write but I never did. I just think it's really interesting what different cultures define as adulthood and how it is marked. I'm particularly interested through a window of what it means to "be a woman," particularly now, but I don't think it's something most people are panting to read. If I ever get a Ph.D., maybe it will be my dissertation.
Not a St. Louis native, but the whole VP thing was explained to me as the debutante system for St. Louis.
I thought this was already pretty well known. Her show had a ton of issues, despite being so popular and I swear this came out back then. Or maybe it was just the show itself. There was former MMM who was pretty defensive about the show.
I think St Louis's race and class issues - of which there are many - can most easily be classified as "really, really fucked up."
I've been in a fight with Arch Apparel for years trying to convince them that the "Where Did You Go To High School" (and preschool?!) shirts are classist at best and racist at worse and truly just absolutely both of those things.
Interesting...that is SUCH a Cincinnati thing as well, people asking where you went to HS.
I thought this was already pretty well known. Her show had a ton of issues, despite being so popular and I swear this came out back then. Or maybe it was just the show itself. There was former MMM who was pretty defensive about the show.
What were the issues on her show?
Besides the fact that she basically plays the same character in every TV show/movie.
I thought this was already pretty well known. Her show had a ton of issues, despite being so popular and I swear this came out back then. Or maybe it was just the show itself. There was former MMM who was pretty defensive about the show.
What were the issues on her show?
Yellow face, white actress playing a Native American (and I am sure many stereotypes)... Tina Fey is known for racist sh*t including blackface on 30 Rock.
I've been in a fight with Arch Apparel for years trying to convince them that the "Where Did You Go To High School" (and preschool?!) shirts are classist at best and racist at worse and truly just absolutely both of those things.
Interesting...that is SUCH a Cincinnati thing as well, people asking where you went to HS.
Wait, really? I went to HS in a Cinci suburb and I never noticed this.
I've been in a fight with Arch Apparel for years trying to convince them that the "Where Did You Go To High School" (and preschool?!) shirts are classist at best and racist at worse and truly just absolutely both of those things.
Interesting...that is SUCH a Cincinnati thing as well, people asking where you went to HS.
I always thought it was weird that people in St. Louis think of it as a St. Louis "thing" because don't people ask that in most cities?
Interesting...that is SUCH a Cincinnati thing as well, people asking where you went to HS.
I always thought it was weird that people in St. Louis think of it as a St. Louis "thing" because don't people ask that in most cities?
Funny story. When I first moved to Chicago I was sitting at a industry event with someone from a competing paper. I was trying to make small talk and was all, so where did you go to high school when she told me she was from the south side of Chicago because that's what STL people say. She was really snotty and said, like you'd know anyone from my high school. And I said "try me." And she told me the name and it was where my college roommate went to high school. LOL. They were two years apart but knew each other. And that snotty woman has now been my BFF for almost 20 years.
Ugh, that's really disheartening. But I guess not overly surprising thinking of a couple of the adjacent counties. Please tell me you aren't northwest though.
I take 44 to Eureka or 100 to Chesterfield
Hope that helps
The KKK chapter that I've been informed exists is SW of me down 44 a bit (but still my county)
My area continues to be racist, covid denying sacks of shit though so it's everywhere.
Oh, mine too, don't get me wrong. I actually had someone stop by my house and ask me where I got my Biden/Harris sign b/c "you just don't see those around here much". BUT, I was shocked when someone posted on our local districts private FB group "LOOK at what they're teaching our 5th graders!" and it was a page from the "puberty" talk they're having this week or maybe next, defining biological sex vs. gender identity. There were like 500 responses and I was prepared to be so angry, but I would say a good 95%+ were positive about it.
The KKK chapter that I've been informed exists is SW of me down 44 a bit (but still my county)
My area continues to be racist, covid denying sacks of shit though so it's everywhere.
Oh, mine too, don't get me wrong. I actually had someone stop by my house and ask me where I got my Biden/Harris sign b/c "you just don't see those around here much". BUT, I was shocked when someone posted on our local districts private FB group "LOOK at what they're teaching our 5th graders!" and it was a page from the "puberty" talk they're having this week or maybe next, defining biological sex vs. gender identity. There were like 500 responses and I was prepared to be so angry, but I would say a good 95%+ were positive about it.
That FB post made my heart happy! I just averted my eyes from the intolerant 5%. But yeah - shocking balance shift for the area.
I also want to add that I moved to STL in the early 2000's from SC, so...lots of similarities TBH. And I never, ever understood the pride people had about the stupid high school question. First, people do that shit everywhere. Second, people are SUPER judgey about the answers in STL.
Interesting...that is SUCH a Cincinnati thing as well, people asking where you went to HS.
Wait, really? I went to HS in a Cinci suburb and I never noticed this.
@@ PDQ
I don't know if it's so much within the burbs (I mean, some for sure carry the implication of old white money), but in the city itself, with all the Catholic schools? Oh my, yes. For people who lived in wealthy neighborhoods IN the city especially. Public school was a non-starter, so the single-sex Catholic school where their kids went was very much a topic for discussion/social hierarchy. As a new resident to the city after college, the HS talk among 20-somethings was like Greek rush on the social scene.
And east side vs west side. H grew up in a suburb on the west side, and I can't even begin to tell you how many times people would reply with something like "oh, wow, I can't believe they didn't leave sooner" when he said his parents recently moved to the east side. It was FUCKED UP.
DotAndBuzz - that’s interesting! I think I may have been too far out for that. (I grew up in Mason). My brother by adoption grew up in Louisville and still lives there now. The Catholic school identity is strong there.
DotAndBuzz - that’s interesting! I think I may have been too far out for that. (I grew up in Mason). My brother by adoption grew up in Louisville and still lives there now. The Catholic school identity is strong there.
Yeah I was about to mention louisville. I don’t live there now and am not “from” there but any time I am in a room with Louisville people and they find out I went to one of the high schools in question, it’s bizarre how I suddenly get treated like an insider. What’s even stranger is how people are like this but about their grade school.
DotAndBuzz - that’s interesting! I think I may have been too far out for that. (I grew up in Mason). My brother by adoption grew up in Louisville and still lives there now. The Catholic school identity is strong there.
Yeah I was about to mention louisville. I don’t live there now and am not “from” there but any time I am in a room with Louisville people and they find out I went to one of the high schools in question, it’s bizarre how I suddenly get treated like an insider. What’s even stranger is how people are like this but about their grade school.
We do that in Philly too. Especially the grade school if you went to catholic school. It was pretty much the first thing I asked Eagles when I found out she was from here.
I always thought it was weird that people in St. Louis think of it as a St. Louis "thing" because don't people ask that in most cities?
I def thought it was a Nola thing. We do it here. It’s mostly b/c if you are within a few years of age you will likely end up knowing some of the same people, I’ve never thought it was racial, but maybe I need to look into that more. Also a lot of people from here tend to stay here, so it is a very small city in that respect. You can usually find people you know in common.
In St. Louis, it's definitely a thing people use to figure out quickly whether or not you're from money or an area they consider undesirable, usually (always) related to the race of people that are the majority in that area.
Lol, Ellie Kemper wasn't in a cult, this is just St. Louis. St. Louis is insane. It is easily the most racist place I have ever lived (and I've lived in Boston). Power is funneled to the top, and systematically stripped from black citizens. I mean it's the same everywhere, but in St. Louis, it seemed extreme to me.
Did Ellie Kemper participate in and benefit from the bedrock of racism in St. Louis? Yes, but so does every white person in St. Louis. So does every white person in America, yet we go about living our lives. I feel like white people are happy to shame Ellie Kemper on Twitter as a way to separate themselves from racism (as if that is possible). But really none of us would look too great if an impartial observer were to look at our family history, and at things we did when we were kids, and at things we still benefit from now.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
In St. Louis, it's definitely a thing people use to figure out quickly whether or not you're from money or an area they consider undesirable, usually (always) related to the race of people that are the majority in that area.
Oh ok, then no, I can say with certainty that is not how it is being asked here. It’s like OH, my cousin went there, graduated in ‘96 too, and then you realize you know a ton of the same people.
Oh, it’s totally an indicator of your background in StL. My mom (at nearly 70 y/o) is still so into HS and it makes me nuts. She was on the planning committee for her 50th reunion and I basically banned her from saying the word “reunion” around me because it was all so ridiculous.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Jun 1, 2021 21:15:06 GMT -5
When we first moved to STL, they asked my parents where they went to school. My dad replied SLU (Saint Louis University). They were all impressed and then started talking about SLUhigh, not SLU. The high school held more social clout than the actual University.
That was our intro into that world. It did not improve.
I think asking about HS is a smaller traditionally industrial/blue collar city thing. Baltimore can be similar. It’s not a city of transplants the way larger cities can be. People stay put.
I remember when my brother got married and his wife’s uncle asked me where he went to school. I had forgotten the love of HS and said the name of his college and he looked flummoxed. Then I told him which HS and he was shocked he wasn’t from “here” where her family lived and they were moving to—my brother went to school 20 minutes away in the same county! LOL
I think asking about HS is a smaller traditionally industrial/blue collar city thing. Baltimore can be similar. It’s not a city of transplants the way larger cities can be. People stay put.
I remember when my brother got married and his wife’s uncle asked me where he went to school. I had forgotten the love of HS and said the name of his college and he looked flummoxed. Then I told him which HS and he was shocked he wasn’t from “here” where her family lived and they were moving to—my brother went to school 20 minutes away in the same county! LOL