When we first moved to STL, they asked my parents where they went to school. My dad replied SLU (Saint Louis University). They were all impressed and then started talking about SLUhigh, not SLU. The high school held more social clout than the actual University.
That was our intro into that world. It did not improve.
When I was in my first year of law school I attended a seminar on how to layout your resume. The professor said "those of you for St. Louis please do not put your high school on your resume no matter how important you think it is." Those of us not from STL had no idea what he was talking about. I didn't realize it was so pervasive until I read this thread.
I def thought it was a Nola thing. We do it here. It’s mostly b/c if you are within a few years of age you will likely end up knowing some of the same people, I’ve never thought it was racial, but maybe I need to look into that more. Also a lot of people from here tend to stay here, so it is a very small city in that respect. You can usually find people you know in common.
In St. Louis, it's definitely a thing people use to figure out quickly whether or not you're from money or an area they consider undesirable, usually (always) related to the race of people that are the majority in that area.
I don't agree it's completely about that. I have absolutely done it for reasons mofongo stated. And I went to Affton and Mehlville, not really the highest of status schools on the list. In fact, I didn't know it WAS about race/class until I went to college (in Florida) and was judged by the one other kid from St. Louis b/c he went to JFK. But my BFF cousin went to Riverview Gardens and my dad taught at Roosevelt for 25+ years, so I could be an anomaly, I suppose.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jun 2, 2021 9:03:26 GMT -5
The really stupid part about the St. Louis high school question is that 100% of trivia nights played in the St. Louis area will have at least 1 category dedicated to, "Where did CELEBRITY go to high school?"
My SIL is from St. Louis and is constantly inviting us to charity trivia nights and the only thing that keeps us going is the $1 beers, because I am never going to give a shit that John Goodman went to Afton. I may be full of stupid trivia knowledge, but I'm not going to slum it that far for fun facts.
I can't even express how much I hate trivia nights.
Oh I looooove them! Just the questions part, not all the silly themes and between round games and money grabs.
I can say that I had never heard of trivia night fundraisers before moving here. And it's like you can find them every weekend without trying too hard.
In St. Louis, it's definitely a thing people use to figure out quickly whether or not you're from money or an area they consider undesirable, usually (always) related to the race of people that are the majority in that area.
I don't agree it's completely about that. I have absolutely done it for reasons mofongo stated. And I went to Affton and Mehlville, not really the highest of status schools on the list. In fact, I didn't know it WAS about race/class until I went to college (in Florida) and was judged by the one other kid from St. Louis b/c he went to JFK. But my BFF cousin went to Riverview Gardens and my dad taught at Roosevelt for 25+ years, so I could be an anomaly, I suppose.
I mean, sure. I ask people where they went because I'm more familiar with a school district than I am all the names of the different suburbs/exits off 40/roads of Highway Alphabet letter.
But, when people find out I was born and raised in North County (Ferguson/Florissant) and they live out in West County or more affluent areas of South County-- there is judgment. Every time. Full stop. Every encounter I have had is a near pity look. People do not think North County is a desirable place to live or send kids to school. I get a response like, "whoa! you made it out!" I really think it's more race based than money based, but the oppression has caused an economic impact that's hard to tease apart.
Racism and segregation is a problem everywhere but it is so obviously apparent in St. Louis. White flight happened lots of places, and maybe it's just because I grew up there and saw lots of friends move away in the early 90s out to West County and St. Charles, but it literally designed St. Louis. The documentary Spanish Lake is wild.
When we first moved to STL, they asked my parents where they went to school. My dad replied SLU (Saint Louis University). They were all impressed and then started talking about SLUhigh, not SLU. The high school held more social clout than the actual University.
That was our intro into that world. It did not improve.
Lol. My bro teaches there. I swear that high school is like a cult.
When we first moved to STL, they asked my parents where they went to school. My dad replied SLU (Saint Louis University). They were all impressed and then started talking about SLUhigh, not SLU. The high school held more social clout than the actual University.
That was our intro into that world. It did not improve.
Lol. My bro teaches there. I swear that high school is like a cult.
All of the single gender catholic high schools are (and then micds, John Burroughs and probably a few other secular schools).
Wait, really? I went to HS in a Cinci suburb and I never noticed this.
@@ PDQ
I don't know if it's so much within the burbs (I mean, some for sure carry the implication of old white money), but in the city itself, with all the Catholic schools? Oh my, yes. For people who lived in wealthy neighborhoods IN the city especially. Public school was a non-starter, so the single-sex Catholic school where their kids went was very much a topic for discussion/social hierarchy. As a new resident to the city after college, the HS talk among 20-somethings was like Greek rush on the social scene.
And east side vs west side. H grew up in a suburb on the west side, and I can't even begin to tell you how many times people would reply with something like "oh, wow, I can't believe they didn't leave sooner" when he said his parents recently moved to the east side. It was FUCKED UP.
DotAndBuzz, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I haven't lived in Cinci since I was in second grade (aside from 2 years of grad school at UC) but I have a ton of cousins on both sides scattered all over the city and they all went to Catholic high schools. There's very much a social hierarchy in place related to what Catholic HS someone went to and with east vs west side as well. My dad grew up in Price Hill and got a lot of those sentiments in HS and college-I remember someone in college saying something along the lines of "oh god, I can see why you moved" when I told them where my dad grew up and where we lived before we moved (also on the west side) and I was like "uh no, more like he got a new job that took us out of state". It's beyond gross.
I don't agree it's completely about that. I have absolutely done it for reasons mofongo stated. And I went to Affton and Mehlville, not really the highest of status schools on the list. In fact, I didn't know it WAS about race/class until I went to college (in Florida) and was judged by the one other kid from St. Louis b/c he went to JFK. But my BFF cousin went to Riverview Gardens and my dad taught at Roosevelt for 25+ years, so I could be an anomaly, I suppose.
I mean, sure. I ask people where they went because I'm more familiar with a school district than I am all the names of the different suburbs/exits off 40/roads of Highway Alphabet letter.
But, when people find out I was born and raised in North County (Ferguson/Florissant) and they live out in West County or more affluent areas of South County-- there is judgment. Every time. Full stop. Every encounter I have had is a near pity look. People do not think North County is a desirable place to live or send kids to school. I get a response like, "whoa! you made it out!" I really think it's more race based than money based, but the oppression has caused an economic impact that's hard to tease apart.
Racism and segregation is a problem everywhere but it is so obviously apparent in St. Louis. White flight happened lots of places, and maybe it's just because I grew up there and saw lots of friends move away in the early 90s out to West County and St. Charles, but it literally designed St. Louis. The documentary Spanish Lake is wild.
What you said is true.
There is a possibility they are having pity looks because unfortunately it is a high violent crime area.
It would be lovely to build those areas back up but I'm not sure what it would take because I personally fear going to that part of the city due to the violence, not the race population that lives there.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jun 2, 2021 10:35:16 GMT -5
Oh...
My brother and SIL lived in Florissant for a very long time and it was a really lovely place. I was sad when they moved for shorter commutes. I had no idea it was a violent place worth fearing?
I mean, sure. I ask people where they went because I'm more familiar with a school district than I am all the names of the different suburbs/exits off 40/roads of Highway Alphabet letter.
But, when people find out I was born and raised in North County (Ferguson/Florissant) and they live out in West County or more affluent areas of South County-- there is judgment. Every time. Full stop. Every encounter I have had is a near pity look. People do not think North County is a desirable place to live or send kids to school. I get a response like, "whoa! you made it out!" I really think it's more race based than money based, but the oppression has caused an economic impact that's hard to tease apart.
Racism and segregation is a problem everywhere but it is so obviously apparent in St. Louis. White flight happened lots of places, and maybe it's just because I grew up there and saw lots of friends move away in the early 90s out to West County and St. Charles, but it literally designed St. Louis. The documentary Spanish Lake is wild.
What you said is true.
There is a possibility they are having pity looks because unfortunately it is a high violent crime area.
It would be lovely to build those areas back up but I'm not sure what it would take because I personally fear going to that part of the city due to the violence, not the race population that lives there.
If I had a chance at a career there, I would move my family back and raise my kid in the schools there without a doubt. I feel safe at home.
Do you have crime rate data for that area compared to similarly populated areas (genuinely curious, no snark)? I haven't had issues, nor has my family, and I often feel like a lot of it is perceived rather than objectively true, but I honestly don't know.
Ferguson and Florissant are significantly black and over-policed which artificially inflate crime rates, so tbh, I don't know that I would even believe the data.
My brother and SIL lived in Florissant for a very long time and it was a really lovely place. I was sad when they moved for shorter commutes. I had no idea it was a violent place worth fearing?
There is a possibility they are having pity looks because unfortunately it is a high violent crime area.
It would be lovely to build those areas back up but I'm not sure what it would take because I personally fear going to that part of the city due to the violence, not the race population that lives there.
If I had a chance at a career there, I would move my family back and raise my kid in the schools there without a doubt. I feel safe at home.
Do you have crime rate data for that area compared to similarly populated areas (genuinely curious, no snark)? I haven't had issues, nor has my family, and I often feel like a lot of it is perceived rather than objectively true, but I honestly don't know.
Ferguson and Florissant are significantly black and over-policed which artificially inflate crime rates, so tbh, I don't know that I would even believe the data.
This was the first thing that I was able to find in Google.
There is a possibility they are having pity looks because unfortunately it is a high violent crime area.
It would be lovely to build those areas back up but I'm not sure what it would take because I personally fear going to that part of the city due to the violence, not the race population that lives there.
If I had a chance at a career there, I would move my family back and raise my kid in the schools there without a doubt. I feel safe at home.
Do you have crime rate data for that area compared to similarly populated areas (genuinely curious, no snark)? I haven't had issues, nor has my family, and I often feel like a lot of it is perceived rather than objectively true, but I honestly don't know.
Ferguson and Florissant are significantly black and over-policed which artificially inflate crime rates, so tbh, I don't know that I would even believe the data.
Also, I'm not referring to theft or break ins. I'm referring to gun violence.
Someone was just shot while driving on 70. No thanks.
@stevia The shootings were in North City, not North County.
The first link lists the whitest places as the most popular areas to live.
St. Louis City violence rates are heavily skewed because no one lives there. So when you have a violent or non-violent crime happen, the percentage goes way up per capita.
And again, the area where more black people live undergo much heavier, unfair, and brutal policing which also show up as "more violent" in the data.
@stevia The shootings were in North City, not North County.
The first link lists the whitest places as the most popular areas to live.
St. Louis City violence rates are heavily skewed because no one lives there. So when you have a violent or non-violent crime happen, the percentage goes way up per capita.
And again, the area where more black people live undergo much heavier, unfair, and brutal policing which also show up as "more violent" in the data.
Fair enough. It has a negative reputation for gun violence outside of the county unfortunately. I avoid the area and am now fearful even when passing through based on what's coming at me via news sources. There's lots of stories of senseless violent crimes. I don't even fear down town city but something has happened for that area unfortunately.
@stevia The shootings were in North City, not North County.
The first link lists the whitest places as the most popular areas to live.
St. Louis City violence rates are heavily skewed because no one lives there. So when you have a violent or non-violent crime happen, the percentage goes way up per capita.
And again, the area where more black people live undergo much heavier, unfair, and brutal policing which also show up as "more violent" in the data.
Fair enough. It has a negative reputation for gun violence outside of the county unfortunately. I avoid the area and am now fearful even when passing through based on what's coming at me via news sources. There's lots of stories of senseless violent crimes. I don't even fear down town city but something has happened for that area unfortunately.
Right, because of racism and that's fully my point.
ETA: not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying, this is my point with generalizing the area based on schools. People think the area is bad because of systemic and pervasive racism.
Fair enough. It has a negative reputation for gun violence outside of the county unfortunately. I avoid the area and am now fearful even when passing through based on what's coming at me via news sources. There's lots of stories of senseless violent crimes. I don't even fear down town city but something has happened for that area unfortunately.
Right, because of racism and that's fully my point.
But STL city and county has a high population of POC, why would racism be located only in one portion of the area?
I am asking, no snark.
Edit obviously racism is everywhere, I mean why is there prejudice only against one part
@stevia The shootings were in North City, not North County.
The first link lists the whitest places as the most popular areas to live.
St. Louis City violence rates are heavily skewed because no one lives there. So when you have a violent or non-violent crime happen, the percentage goes way up per capita.
And again, the area where more black people live undergo much heavier, unfair, and brutal policing which also show up as "more violent" in the data.
. I avoid the area and am now fearful even when passing through based on what's coming at me via news sources. There's lots of stories of senseless violent crimes.
The news media you’re consuming is likely biased and steeped in systemic racism in what it is portraying.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jun 2, 2021 11:24:13 GMT -5
@stevia, your oof is misplaced, though. You said you avoid those areas. They're perfectly normal. I was honestly confused by your response to Florissant, even though it has been a handful of years since I've spent any meaningful time there. It's your basic city - residential areas and lots of shopping centers/restaurants/churches/etc.
I think this is a good example of how media consumption, racism in policing and media, and general/casual racism can affect a person. You've heard it's a bad place, your media consumption has confirmed it, and people's attitudes have reaffirmed it.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how the quaint 70s neighborhood by the awesome custard place is anything like what you're describing.
@stevia, your oof is misplaced, though. You said you avoid those areas. They're perfectly normal. I was honestly confused by your response to Florissant, even though it has been a handful of years since I've spent any meaningful time there. It's your basic city - residential areas and lots of shopping centers/restaurants/churches/etc.
I think this is a good example of how media consumption, racism in policing and media, and general/casual racism can affect a person. You've heard it's a bad place, your media consumption has confirmed it, and people's attitudes have reaffirmed it.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how the quaint 70s neighborhood by the awesome custard place is anything like what you're describing.
I don't know. Us here in out area, we watch channel 5, which I think is our most liberal local source
Edit: only local people know channel 5 of course lol
@stevia, your oof is misplaced, though. You said you avoid those areas. They're perfectly normal. I was honestly confused by your response to Florissant, even though it has been a handful of years since I've spent any meaningful time there. It's your basic city - residential areas and lots of shopping centers/restaurants/churches/etc.
I think this is a good example of how media consumption, racism in policing and media, and general/casual racism can affect a person. You've heard it's a bad place, your media consumption has confirmed it, and people's attitudes have reaffirmed it.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how the quaint 70s neighborhood by the awesome custard place is anything like what you're describing.
I don't know. Us here in out area, we watch channel 5, which I think is our most liberal local source
Edit: only local people know channel 5 of course lol