Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer on set

[pugz]

I still don't understand how or why there were bullets in that gun

[cattledogkisses]

Jan 19, 2023 16:26:41 GMT -5 pugz said:

I still don't understand how or why there were bullets in that gun

If I'm remembering correctly, I thought it came to light that people were using the prop gun for target practice in their free time. 

Which is obviously dangerous and stupid, as became tragically apparent.

[waverly]

Jan 19, 2023 16:26:41 GMT -5 pugz said:

I still don't understand how or why there were bullets in that gun

Based on my perceptions of the interviews, the armorer didn't give a crap about safety and was treating the whole movie making experience like a fun hangout (with guns) rather than taking it seriously.  That was kind of my take on it, that people were just doing whatever they wanted, not being safe, and that is why many members of the crew had quit.  It definitely goes higher up with not having safety meetings, and the general culture.  But I feel like if you are the Armorer than it is part of your responsibility to make that culture of safety which clearly she did not do.  She tried to make it everyone else's fault but her own, but it was that position that bears the ultimate responsibility.  It's literally in the job title.  

I am not vindicating Baldwin with these statements.  The FBI said they determined he did pull the trigger.  

[bears]

Jan 19, 2023 17:06:47 GMT -5 waverly said:

Jan 19, 2023 16:26:41 GMT -5 pugz said:

I still don't understand how or why there were bullets in that gun

Based on my perceptions of the interviews, the armorer didn't give a crap about safety and was treating the whole movie making experience like a fun hangout (with guns) rather than taking it seriously.  That was kind of my take on it, that people were just doing whatever they wanted, not being safe, and that is why many members of the crew had quit.  It definitely goes higher up with not having safety meetings, and the general culture.  But I feel like if you are the Armorer than it is part of your responsibility to make that culture of safety which clearly she did not do.  She tried to make it everyone else's fault but her own, but it was that position that bears the ultimate responsibility.  It's literally in the job title.  

I am not vindicating Baldwin with these statements.  The FBI said they determined he did pull the trigger.  

Given Baldwin's personality and the guilt you would feel for killing someone in this situation, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believed he didn't pull the trigger. Not excusing anything, obviously.

[Wallflower]

Jan 19, 2023 18:31:09 GMT -5 bears said:

Jan 19, 2023 17:06:47 GMT -5 waverly said:

Based on my perceptions of the interviews, the armorer didn't give a crap about safety and was treating the whole movie making experience like a fun hangout (with guns) rather than taking it seriously.  That was kind of my take on it, that people were just doing whatever they wanted, not being safe, and that is why many members of the crew had quit.  It definitely goes higher up with not having safety meetings, and the general culture.  But I feel like if you are the Armorer than it is part of your responsibility to make that culture of safety which clearly she did not do.  She tried to make it everyone else's fault but her own, but it was that position that bears the ultimate responsibility.  It's literally in the job title.  

I am not vindicating Baldwin with these statements.  The FBI said they determined he did pull the trigger.  

Given Baldwin's personality and the guilt you would feel for killing someone in this situation, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believed he didn't pull the trigger. Not excusing anything, obviously.

My cousin died in a car accident when a teenage/inexperienced driver took a left turn into traffic, crossing in front of the turn lane waiting for a green arrow to do it. She convinced herself, 100%, that the light was malfunctioning and giving a green arrow while also giving everyone in the other direction a green light. Never mind she wasn't in the turn lane.

As you say, guilt can have a powerful influence on belief.

[cous0226]

He has said in a few interviews he didn’t pull the trigger. Do guns shoot on their own? Or does he mean it malfunctioned? I genuinely don’t understand what he means by this.

[maudefindlay]

Jan 21, 2023 5:36:38 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

He has said in a few interviews he didn’t pull the trigger. Do guns shoot on their own? Or does he mean it malfunctioned? I genuinely don’t understand what he means by this.

His lawyer says the gun was in poor condition. The FBI says it functioned normally in their lab. Baldwin says they were setting up a scene and he was being directed where to hold the gun and he cocked it, but did not pull the trigger. He says when he let go of the hammer the gun went off and that he never pulled the trigger. The FBI says that is not possible, that the trigger had to have been pulled and that it took a certain force to pull it. I haven't read anything where Baldwin explains things further.

[bronxgirl]

Jan 19, 2023 19:54:33 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

Jan 19, 2023 18:31:09 GMT -5 bears said:

Given Baldwin's personality and the guilt you would feel for killing someone in this situation, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually believed he didn't pull the trigger. Not excusing anything, obviously.

My cousin died in a car accident when a teenage/inexperienced driver took a left turn into traffic, crossing in front of the turn lane waiting for a green arrow to do it. She convinced herself, 100%, that the light was malfunctioning and giving a green arrow while also giving everyone in the other direction a green light. Never mind she wasn't in the turn lane.

As you say, guilt can have a powerful influence on belief.

I think these are both good parts.  The mind is not a video recorder and what we may think we remember may not be what actually happened, but also not a lie. 9i feel like I don't know enough to know what should or shouldn't happen to Alec Baldwin, but I was watching MSNBC and they had several commenters on whom I've always respected (who are either former prosecutors or defense attorneys) and they seemed pretty surprised that Baldwin was charged and didn't think it was appropriate. 

[pixy0stix]

Charges have been dropped against Baldwin - abcnews.go.com/US/charges-dropped-alec-baldwin-fatal-set-rust-shooting/story?id=98734243


ETA: It looks like the prosecution has been a mess - www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-new-mexico-da-b2310727.html

[ellipses84]

I’m not a Baldwin fan at all, but I don’t think he should have been charged criminally. This was an accidental shooting and if anyone should be liable, it should be the armorer more than anyone else, as it is their actual job responsibility to make sure the weapon was a safe/secure prop and actors handling weapons were trained properly. I think most actors would agree and we wouldn’t be so harsh on a young inexperienced actor without a huge ego. I don’t know how much experience Baldwin had with prop or real guns or that type of gun.

I think the director / producer and anyone else responsible for the overall safety on set who ignored previous issues should have responsibility as well. Usually they don’t even let actors of major roles do their own stunts or major action scenes because an injury could shut down a production. I see this as something where everyone involved could be sued civilly and there would be laws or industry regulations passed to prevent future tragedies like this.

[maudefindlay]

Apr 21, 2023 23:19:47 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

I’m not a Baldwin fan at all, but I don’t think he should have been charged criminally. This was an accidental shooting and if anyone should be liable, it should be the armorer more than anyone else, as it is their actual job responsibility to make sure the weapon was a safe/secure prop and actors handling weapons were trained properly. I think most actors would agree and we wouldn’t be so harsh on a young inexperienced actor without a huge ego. I don’t know how much experience Baldwin had with prop or real guns or that type of gun.

I think the director / producer and anyone else responsible for the overall safety on set who ignored previous issues should have responsibility as well. Usually they don’t even let actors of major roles do their own stunts or major action scenes because an injury could shut down a production. I see this as something where everyone involved could be sued civilly and there would be laws or industry regulations passed to prevent future tragedies like this.

Baldwin is a producer.

[neverfstop]

‘Rust’ armorer sentenced to 18 months in prison for fatal shooting
Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in March for her role in the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
www.washingtonpost.com/style/2024/04/15/rust-armorer-sentence-hannah-gutierrez-reed/