Senate votes unanimously to make DST permanent

[pixy0stix]

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/03/15/senate-daylight-saving-permanent/


WTF is this? Did anyone know this was happening?

[jene]

I fucking hate DST. This is the stupidest fucking thing. Also, we tried this in the 70s and ended up reversing it.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 15, 2022 16:13:36 GMT -5 jene said:

I fucking hate DST. This is the stupidest fucking thing. Also, we tried this in the 70s and ended up reversing it.

That's in the article.

@@@@
It seems like most of the complaints were that kids were going to school in the dark. I will say, winter mornings are going to be fucking miserable if this does pass.

[sillygoosegirl]

I wish they were making no DST permanent instead.

[wanderingback]

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

[pixy0stix]

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

Spring forward (aka go forward an hour) is DST. 

[wise_rita]

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

LOL saaaame.

I will hear no complaints about DST after living nearly a decade in a place that didn't do it, which resulted in 4:30 a.m. BLAZING sunshine and 6 p.m. darkness. 

One size does not fit all, fyvm!

[heliocentric]

I despise DST.
I’m fairly certain the people I know who love DST associate it with the abundance of daylight in summer and don’t understand how bad it’ll suck in the mid-Atlantic in winter.

[Velar Fricative]

I had no idea this was happening!

I feel like DST or no DST is going to fuck up every place in some way, so whatever, I'll deal with whatever the consequences are as long as I don't have to have my sleep all messed up like it's been this week.

[sillygoosegirl]

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

DST is when your sundial says noon (the sun is at it's highest point), but your clock says 1pm. And it's the time we use in the summer. My position is that solar noon and legal noon should be the same. And let people adjust when businesses and institutions are open if they want more daylight before/after. But I realize this is kind of a lost cause... it is literally easier to change when the sun rises and sets than American business culture.

ETA: I think I mean 11am... which is why I hate DST. But anyway, it means the time we use in the summer.

[jene]

MN friends:

[TR]

Ok, but there are those maps that show the differences and I will find it, but it shows that the sunset differences aren't that great, but the sunrise ones are. Fuck this, fuck DST.

ETA:

Attachments:

FN6kTJFXMA4BTVR.jfif (178.22 KB)

[Bad Dingo]

Yay, this makes me so happy.

[msmerymac]

@@@

There are plenty of studies that show that later school start times are beneficial to kids anyway, so I think we have alternatives to the whole "kids will be on school busses in the dark" thing.

[isabel]

Mar 15, 2022 16:41:32 GMT -5 TR said:

Ok, but there are those maps that show the differences and I will find it, but it shows that the sunset differences aren't that great, but the sunrise ones are. Fuck this, fuck DST.

ETA:

So this would be better if we got rid of DST and stayed in “fall back” mode, right? I swear I’m not dumb, but the time changes confuse me. Lol

[icedcoffee]

I can’t wrap my head around what this means. I need a spreadsheet.

[smock]

I'm in the "get rid of DST" camp. If we do year-round DST, it's going to be dark until 9am in the winter. That sounds miserable. And the Vox map of eliminating DST looks way better than sticking with DST all year. Did the Senate just not talk to people who live in the northern states? Or are none of them early risers?

[smock]

From the WaPo piece:

A House panel last week considered whether to enact permanent daylight saving time, although a neurologist testified that it would be healthier to adopt permanent standard time instead, citing research into circadian rhythms and release of hormones such as cortisol.

LISTEN TO THE NEUROLOGIST, SENATE!

[smock]

Also from the WaPo piece:

University of Washington law professor Steve Calandrillo, who testified before the House last week and has pushed permanent daylight saving time for more than a decade, said that any change requires a balancing act.

“If we move to permanent daylight saving time, you’re going to create more morning darkness. That will make it hard to wake up and negatively impact people who have to go to work or school early,” he said. “I’m sensitive to that. But human nature is we want to live our lives in the afternoons, in the evenings. We stay up late. We want to go out.”

SOME OF US DON'T WANT TO GO OUT. WE WANT TO GO TO BED. AND WE WANT IT LIGHT BEFORE 9AM!

[Velar Fricative]

Mar 15, 2022 17:17:48 GMT -5 smock said:

I'm in the "get rid of DST" camp. If we do year-round DST, it's going to be dark until 9am in the winter. That sounds miserable. And the Vox map of eliminating DST looks way better than sticking with DST all year. Did the Senate just not talk to people who live in the northern states? Or are none of them early risers?

I am 100% certain senators are just as confused as we are about DST vs. standard time. So I wouldn’t be shocked if it comes out that they voted for the wrong thing lol.

[mouse]

Mar 15, 2022 17:09:14 GMT -5 isabel said:

Mar 15, 2022 16:41:32 GMT -5 TR said:

Ok, but there are those maps that show the differences and I will find it, but it shows that the sunset differences aren't that great, but the sunrise ones are. Fuck this, fuck DST.

ETA:

So this would be better if we got rid of DST and stayed in “fall back” mode, right? I swear I’m not dumb, but the time changes confuse me. Lol

It depends on where you are. I’m coastal west, so with permanent DST, my sunrises before 7 am barely shift, but every single day I’ll have light after 5 pm. That’s my ideal, especially in winter when I fucking need that time in the light.

[rubytue]

Mar 15, 2022 16:26:55 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

LOL saaaame.

I will hear no complaints about DST after living nearly a decade in a place that didn't do it, which resulted in 4:30 a.m. BLAZING sunshine and 6 p.m. darkness. 

One size does not fit all, fyvm!

Man, what I would give to have to wait til 6pm for darkness in the winter. 

that said, I remember being in vacation in Costa Rica and being so weirded out that it was dark so early. And the same year round.

[rubytue]

Mar 15, 2022 16:30:58 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I despise DST.
I’m fairly certain the people I know who love DST associate it with the abundance of daylight in summer and don’t understand how bad it’ll suck in the mid-Atlantic in winter.

Can you clarify? MDer here, sunset at 4:30pm in winter. If er make DST permanent (per the headline), then the sun won’t set until 5:30. I’d find that bliss!!

But, I’ve found many of the people who what to “do away with” DST really hate the time change *to* DST, not the time itself. It’s standard time that would have the sun setting at 3:30pm. 

edit - ok. I read through more of this and the other thread and I stand corrected. This is for real the first time I’ve heard people saying they want the light in the morning and don’t mind early darkness. 

[jlt19]

Mar 15, 2022 17:22:38 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Mar 15, 2022 17:17:48 GMT -5 smock said:

I'm in the "get rid of DST" camp. If we do year-round DST, it's going to be dark until 9am in the winter. That sounds miserable. And the Vox map of eliminating DST looks way better than sticking with DST all year. Did the Senate just not talk to people who live in the northern states? Or are none of them early risers?

I am 100% certain senators are just as confused as we are about DST vs. standard time. So I wouldn’t be shocked if it comes out that they voted for the wrong thing lol.

I bet half knew and half didn’t. That’s the ONLY explanation for a unanimous vote on anything these days.

[penguingrrl]

I never remember which is which. I just know that the spring forward takes me over a week to adjust to, and that week is godawful. I’d do anything to do away with that.

[lust2hart]

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

I keep it straight by remembering that DST was initiated to help farmers have more light to work in the summer. So when we spring forward to have more light in the evenings, that’s DST.

[rubytue]

Mar 15, 2022 17:46:12 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

Mar 15, 2022 16:21:24 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Is this where I admit I have no clue which one is DST and which one isn’t DST. I know "spring" forward and "fall” back but get confused when people say things like “make DST permanent."

I keep it straight by remembering that DST was initiated to help farmers have more light to work in the summer. So when we spring forward to have more light in the evenings, that’s DST.

I was reading something last week that said this was an excuse, but farmers didn’t care. They’d work the sun no matter. And the energy savings this is also kind of mythy. I’ll see if I can find it…

[pixy0stix]

Mar 15, 2022 17:48:22 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Mar 15, 2022 17:46:12 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

I keep it straight by remembering that DST was initiated to help farmers have more light to work in the summer. So when we spring forward to have more light in the evenings, that’s DST.

I was reading something last week that said this was an excuse, but farmers didn’t care. They’d work the sun no matter. And the energy savings this is also kind of mythy. I’ll see if I can find it…

Yeah, Bush changed the dates for DST to be longer because of "energy savings" but there really isn't any change in energy use.

[rubytue]

I couldn’t find the exact one I was thinking about, but here is one about the 1974 thing, with more details on what the post article alluded to. www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight-saving-time-people-hated-it-2021-3

I’ll keep looking.

Edit: this one has some citations about the (lack of) energy savings. And some other things. capitolism.thedispatch.com/p/enddst

I've been having a running debate about DST with a friend for about 6 months, we share articles back and forth. But I still can’t find the one from about a week ago.

[lust2hart]

Mar 15, 2022 17:48:22 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Mar 15, 2022 17:46:12 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

I keep it straight by remembering that DST was initiated to help farmers have more light to work in the summer. So when we spring forward to have more light in the evenings, that’s DST.

I was reading something last week that said this was an excuse, but farmers didn’t care. They’d work the sun no matter. And the energy savings this is also kind of mythy. I’ll see if I can find it…

Yeah I should have said that’s what I was always told. I had my doubts about its veracity. But regardless of whether it’s fact or myth, that’s how I can remember which is DST!