TW Diet talk: Challenges with anti-dieting

[ESF]

I'm sorry you are struggling and I know the feeling. Congrats on taking the step to ditch WW - it's a huge mind shift and a big step.   I think there's a perception that quitting dieting and trying to eat more mindfully is somehow giving up or taking the easy route, and the thing that has been helpful for me to remember is that it's anything but. Undoing years of programming, tuning out diet culture, working through the shame, and grieving the loss of the life or body that we imagined for ourselves requires a lot of work, and is not something most people can do without support. 

I have an amazing therapist, who has given me some helpful advice. She gets the whole IE thing and agrees with it, but she also prefers different symantics for it - suggesting I think about eating as whether it is chaotic versus non-chaotic, instead of intuitively or not.  Non-chaotic doesn't mean controlled, it just means not frenzied or irrational. But it's sometimes easier for us to know what kinds of eating habits feel out of control and random than for us to know what of our habits feel natural.  And if things feel too out of control, it's probably a sign of some other stressor, like a mental health challenge that should be dealt with, and as opposed to trying to restrict the food.

So I while I think an non-diet RD is a good suggestion, I think it's also worth looking into a therapist. Between COVID, dealing with weight issues, and the demands of life, there could be any number of issues that are causing some stress and trigging the desire to over-eat.  

I know for me, the weird fits and starts that we are going through where we are in this stage of constantly re-entering and re-treating from society has been a mindfuck.  The weight fluctations and never knowing what clothes will fit, and seeing people I haven't seen in a while...ugh. Even though I *know* dieting isn't going to get me anywhere, I have been fighting the temptation to just do it one more time for a short period of time to just deal with the urgent problem. That's a stress in and of itself.

Good luck to you in navigating all this.

[longtimenopost]

I've said it on a previous thread, but medication is the only thing that worked for me. I blamed myself/behavior/etc for YEARS. I became a lifetime member of WW at 12 years old. I've been dieting on and off for 25 years. Finally, in 2020, I had enough. The more I learned about how our bodies actively FIGHT against us losing weight, even if we are overweight, and how our brains trick us into believing we are literally starving, the more I forgave myself. I demanded tests from my doctor, and discovered I had insulin resistance. I was diagnosed with PCOS as a teenager but thought it wasn't an issue anymore because my periods regulated.

I recommend asking your doctor about trying a GLP-1. I took Victoza for 18 months, and dropped 50 lbs fairly easily in the first 8-9. I've been off it for a few months now and have kept it off. I also take metformin for the insulin resistance.

[wesleycrusher]

Apr 5, 2022 9:05:06 GMT -5 ESF said:

So I while I think an non-diet RD is a good suggestion, I think it's also worth looking into a therapist. Between COVID, dealing with weight issues, and the demands of life, there could be any number of issues that are causing some stress and trigging the desire to over-eat.  

I was going to suggest this as well. OP, have you ever spoken to anyone about binge eating disorder? Part of my work is in an eating disorder clinic, and some of what you say seems to fit that, so I would encourage you to look into that. The mayo clinic has a good overview on their website.  The treatment is therapy, sometimes along with medication management.  You could start with your PCP or look for a therapist that specializes with eating disorders. 

ETA: there has been a lot of helpful tips and tricks in this thread, many of which can work and I have taught to people (and use myself), but if there are underlying causes for overeating that are not treated, it is much harder to be successful with them. 

[icedcoffee]

A few things have helped me.

-Moving a lot. Not only working out but lots of walks too and just moving. I like having a watch to track steps. The more I move, the less I eat and the more I move the better I feel. I feel really strong now and it makes a lot of difference in me overall. Getting some new athletic wear helped also.

-I gave myself permission to throw out food. Not in a wasteful way, but like if I want to try something I gave myself permission to not eat the whole thing and throw it away. This was really new for me because I come from a clean your plate family. Like someone handed me cake at a b-day party and I realized it wasn't THAT great so I ate a couple bites and tossed it.

-If I see myself slipping back into an old habit I give myself permission for X days. For example...muffins are my thing when I'm stressed. I went through a really stressful period a few months ago. I bought myself a 4 pack and said that when they are gone no more. It helped to give myself permission, but not make it a permanent thing again. And honestly, by day 5 I was ready to return to my normal healthier breakfast.

-I try to eat 3 meals and 2 snacks a day and no more.

[Velar Fricative]

The discussion can continue, and I appreciate all the additional posts. But I realized today that I need something more than a dietician now that I'm connecting a lot of dots. So I'm checking my insurance to make an appointment with a medical professional who specializes in eating disorders and some other issues I'm dealing with (anxiety, which I'm currently on Lexapro for, and trichotillomania, which I've had for my entire adult life and never treated).

ETA: I have an appointment next week! She could have seen me earlier but next week worked better for me. 

[Michelle]

Apr 5, 2022 12:40:43 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

The discussion can continue, and I appreciate all the additional posts. But I realized today that I need something more than a dietician now that I'm connecting a lot of dots. So I'm checking my insurance to make an appointment with a medical professional who specializes in eating disorders and some other issues I'm dealing with (anxiety, which I'm currently on Lexapro for, and trichotillomania, which I've had for my entire adult life and never treated).

I think this is a good idea. I have a whole team I'm working with. A psychologist for behavioral modification, a psychiatrist for meds (was recently diagnosed with ADHD too), and an RD for meal planning and choices.

Sending all the best vibes for success to you.

[wanderingback]

Velar Fricative glad that you’ve come up with a game plan going forward and hope you get the help you need to feel better!

[TR]

Apr 5, 2022 11:38:15 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

-I gave myself permission to throw out food. Not in a wasteful way, but like if I want to try something I gave myself permission to not eat the whole thing and throw it away. This was really new for me because I come from a clean your plate family. Like someone handed me cake at a b-day party and I realized it wasn't THAT great so I ate a couple bites and tossed it.

I saw someone say once something like if you're overeating something to avoid wasting it, to consider that having it just be turned into fat in your body is still a waste.

[gault]

Apr 5, 2022 13:20:42 GMT -5 TR said:

Apr 5, 2022 11:38:15 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

-I gave myself permission to throw out food. Not in a wasteful way, but like if I want to try something I gave myself permission to not eat the whole thing and throw it away. This was really new for me because I come from a clean your plate family. Like someone handed me cake at a b-day party and I realized it wasn't THAT great so I ate a couple bites and tossed it.

I saw someone say once something like if you're overeating something to avoid wasting it, to consider that having it just be turned into fat in your body is still a waste.

This is a really good way to think of it - I'm literally writing it down to remind myself. Lol. I'll eat all the shitty cake on my plate most of the time.

[wildrice]

Apr 5, 2022 13:20:42 GMT -5 TR said:

Apr 5, 2022 11:38:15 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

-I gave myself permission to throw out food. Not in a wasteful way, but like if I want to try something I gave myself permission to not eat the whole thing and throw it away. This was really new for me because I come from a clean your plate family. Like someone handed me cake at a b-day party and I realized it wasn't THAT great so I ate a couple bites and tossed it.

I saw someone say once something like if you're overeating something to avoid wasting it, to consider that having it just be turned into fat in your body is still a waste.

I like the idea of this, although I don't love the food = fat message. But the idea that it's wasted either way - yes.

This is one that I struggle with a lot, especially when I'm out to eat/getting takeout - if I know it won't reheat well, I tend to just eat the whole thing because I don't want to save it and I don't want to waste it. But that really makes no sense. The same amount of food is gone whether you eat it or throw it in the trash.

[Velar Fricative]

I had a lovely dinner and then when there was food left on others’ plates, I ate them. I didn’t have to eat them. I didn’t even care about how they tasted. But I still had to eat them. Sigh.

[bronxgirl]

That's a great update, Velar Fricative . It sounds like you're making some really smart choices for yourself. It's not easy to do so, give yourself credit for it.

ETA: In regards to your post about getting a therapist, etc.  Don't beat yourself up about dinner tonight.  It happened, move on. (that sounds kind of harsh the way i wrote it. but i mean it in a kind, supportive way).

[bee20]

Velar Fricative, sounds like you are taking some great steps--getting some help and recognizing some unhealthy behaviors vs focusing on demonizing food itself. Good work!

[winecat]

Apr 5, 2022 17:15:38 GMT -5 wildrice said:

Apr 5, 2022 13:20:42 GMT -5 TR said:

I saw someone say once something like if you're overeating something to avoid wasting it, to consider that having it just be turned into fat in your body is still a waste.

I like the idea of this, although I don't love the food = fat message. But the idea that it's wasted either way - yes.

This is one that I struggle with a lot, especially when I'm out to eat/getting takeout - if I know it won't reheat well, I tend to just eat the whole thing because I don't want to save it and I don't want to waste it. But that really makes no sense. The same amount of food is gone whether you eat it or throw it in the trash.

Excess food is fat, not food used as fuel, is how I interpreted it.  IDK if that helps but if it does, here it is.  

[mrsukyankee]

Velar Fricative, I'm glad you are going to get help for all the issues. They are all inter-related tbh (I see it in my work often). AND it's doable. So let me give you some hope.

[longtimenopost]

Apr 5, 2022 18:25:26 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I had a lovely dinner and then when there was food left on others’ plates, I ate them. I didn’t have to eat them. I didn’t even care about how they tasted. But I still had to eat them. Sigh.

I'm sorry, I really feel this. Part of it for me was that after 25 years of dieting, I could no longer feel hungry or full. Hand to mouth disorder. Yes, I tried intuitive eating in hopes I could tap into it, but to no avail. Basically, any attempts at food reduction, no matter how they were framed, were based on pure willpower, which, with a busy life and high stress, I just didn't have. Victoza allowed me to feel those hunger and fullness cues again. That remained even when I discontinued the medicine. It's not a miracle drug, but I think it's underutilized by doctors who think weight loss/overeating is all psychological. 

[ESF]

Apr 6, 2022 10:08:39 GMT -5 longtimenopost said:

Apr 5, 2022 18:25:26 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I had a lovely dinner and then when there was food left on others’ plates, I ate them. I didn’t have to eat them. I didn’t even care about how they tasted. But I still had to eat them. Sigh.

I'm sorry, I really feel this. Part of it for me was that after 25 years of dieting, I could no longer feel hungry or full. Hand to mouth disorder. Yes, I tried intuitive eating in hopes I could tap into it, but to no avail. Basically, any attempts at food reduction, no matter how they were framed, were based on pure willpower, which, with a busy life and high stress, I just didn't have. Victoza allowed me to feel those hunger and fullness cues again. That remained even when I discontinued the medicine. It's not a miracle drug, but I think it's underutilized by doctors who think weight loss/overeating is all psychological. 

Hugs to you and to Velar Fricative. I think it's completely understandable that "willpower" alone wasn't going to work for you, because I think it's rarely a real sustainable solution for anyone - busy life or not. It's one thing to not eat a very specific kind of food in response to a health issue, but it's another to just not eat. 

I think what people who haven't dealt with these issues don't understand is that there's a difference between choosing not to eat something, and not having an urge to eat something.  They are very, very different things. 

[pugz]

A big part of my work with disordered eating has been to embrace and practice more self-compassion as well as curiosity. So instead of "uggh I'm so mad that I overate tonight" I'd say "I'm still working on healing my relationship with food, I wonder if there was something going on that made me feel compelled to overeat tonight."

Being around fat-phobic family members is a trigger for me. Just telling my husband "I'm stressed and have the urge to binge this weekend." was helpful for me and we tried to problem solve ways to decrease my stress level around them. By being curious instead of shaming myself I was able to figure out some better coping skills.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Learning to throw away food was actually one of the hardest yet most helpful things that I've been able to do successfully. I mean that in throwing away food that is left on my own plate, throwing away food that is left on my kids' plates, not finishing something I chose but am not enjoying like a pp said, and also not being mad at myself if I spend money on food that spoils (mostly vegetables) from the store but I then don't eat them in time and they go bad before I actually eat them, and then I still buy more next week because if I'm not going to eat them if they aren't in the house to eat obviously.

I am another one who needed medication to help jumpstart the weight loss process. I'm currently on Wegovy and an appetite suppressant while seeing a barriatric doctor and RD.

[foundmylazybum]

...so, after being sick, I developed some interesting and disordered behaviors that are protective but also anxiety producing.
I think my behaviors are more on the edge of hypervigilence but what I did might be helpful...im saying this as encouragement to seek help..not so much as a suggestion.


For instance, I body scan a lot and for a long time I would weigh myself every day to check for any change. I feel like I do these behaviors in secret and they are private, but...my husband knows when I'm body scanning because I'll be distracted, irritable and distant, basically bc im so consumed but intrusive thoughts.


Kind of like what previous posters have mentioned, I worked with a counselor and figured out how to share these "super secret" behaviors with my husband and I was honestly surprised when he was like "I know, and if you would like my help, I'm here for you."



This is NOT a catch all solution, but disordered patterns *can* sometimes live in secret behaviors that need to be shared so the pattern can be broken and reset, but it might and probably does require work with professionals in this area.

[boiler717]

I started taking Ozempic for weight loss and it has been life-changing. It has completely changed my relationship with food — it’s not even something I think about anymore. I’ve lost over 100 lbs since I started a year ago this month and truly don’t even have to think about food and what I’m eating.
Caloric restriction is not a successful way to lose weight over a long-term for most people. I’ve had to accept that my biology is not set up for that — maintaining a healthy weight is not something I can “will power” my way into doing. Medication helps address the subcortical hormonal aspects that cause obesity.

[lynn07]

Apr 7, 2022 6:02:17 GMT -5 boiler717 said:

I started taking Ozempic for weight loss and it has been life-changing. It has completely changed my relationship with food — it’s not even something I think about anymore. I’ve lost over 100 lbs since I started a year ago this month and truly don’t even have to think about food and what I’m eating.
Caloric restriction is not a successful way to lose weight over a long-term for most people. I’ve had to accept that my biology is not set up for that — maintaining a healthy weight is not something I can “will power” my way into doing. Medication helps address the subcortical hormonal aspects that cause obesity.

Did you go to a specialist to have it prescribed for you or did you just get it from your GP?

[boiler717]

Apr 7, 2022 11:35:21 GMT -5 lynn07 said:

Apr 7, 2022 6:02:17 GMT -5 boiler717 said:

I started taking Ozempic for weight loss and it has been life-changing. It has completely changed my relationship with food — it’s not even something I think about anymore. I’ve lost over 100 lbs since I started a year ago this month and truly don’t even have to think about food and what I’m eating.
Caloric restriction is not a successful way to lose weight over a long-term for most people. I’ve had to accept that my biology is not set up for that — maintaining a healthy weight is not something I can “will power” my way into doing. Medication helps address the subcortical hormonal aspects that cause obesity.

Did you go to a specialist to have it prescribed for you or did you just get it from your GP?

My primary care (I see a nurse practitioner). She is super supportive. I have had several friends ask their PCPs and were denied — mostly fat phobic reasons, they just need to try harder, etc. One friend uses an online obesity management practice to obtain now.
I do not have diabetes and my insurance covers it ($25/m). They originally denied my husbands RX because he didn’t have a history of metformin (which I take for PCOS, but then Ozempic was approved as step therapy because they assumed it was for diabetes). I recommend checking your plan to see if step therapy is required before filling the first time.
It’s available as Wegovy approved for weight loss (and at higher doses). That one is $400/m on my insurance. Since I’m so successful on Ozempic I don’t have a motivation to pay more for Wegovy at this time.
There are also similar medications in the same class but semaglutide (Ozempic/Wegovy) is most effective for weight loss at this time.

[secretagent]

I started Wegovy prescribed by my endocrinologist about 4 months ago. My insurance covers it at $10/mo. I have lost almost 10% of my body weight since starting it essentially painlessly. She's holding me on the medium dose (1.0) as I haven't plateaued and haven't experienced side effects and they get worse at higher doses. If that changes when I go back in June I will move up.

I've been "on a diet" most of my life and also somewhat to fairly overweight depending on the year. I feel very strongly my weight and difficulty losing weight has a huge genetic component. I exercise pretty hard 4-5 days a week including weight training, and for many years ran a lot too. My diet isn't perfect but it makes a huge difference with my propensity to overeat and eat mindlessly - I still snack and like sweets but I'm less likely to eat a whole pack of something and my emotional eating is MUCHHHHH better. I've been to nutritionists, etc, and all I've gotten was guilt about not committing enough. I actually changed PCPs over this as my old MD told me I need to prioritize cooking.

[pugz]

My understanding on the injectible weight loss meds is that once you stop taking them you rapidly regain the weight.

[longtimenopost]

Apr 7, 2022 13:46:35 GMT -5 pugz said:

My understanding on the injectible weight loss meds is that once you stop taking them you rapidly regain the weight.

I could see how this could happen, but it hasn't been my experience. Like I mentioned upthread, I do think there is a huge psychological component when it comes to our eating habits, binge eating, etc. However, there is also a physical component. Both need to be addressed. The Victoza helped me experience hunger and fullness cues again, but I have to continue to pay attention to those. If I don't, I could easily regain the weight. The Victoza also quieted the part of my brain that was telling myself I was STARVING and artificially increasing my hunger while I was losing weight. I can't remember the research, but something to do with leptin? I will say, their efficacy wears off. For me it was about a year, I stopped losing weight. I would recommend working with an RD and addressing the psychological component at the same time as the meds, to sort of "get the good" of it if that makes sense. 

ETA I do think part of my issue was the insulin resistance, and I am still on a low (non-diabetic) dose of metformin to assist with that, which may be helping me maintain the weight loss. 

In 2017 I lost the same amount of weight (50 lbs) and kept it off for exactly 1 month before gaining it ALL back over the following 6 months. I started Victoza summer 2020, lost 50 lbs in about 9 months, and have kept it off for a year. I stopped the Victoza in December but haven't noticed any change since then, because like I mentioned above, it does lose efficacy, especially the appetite suppressant effect in my experience. 

[boiler717]

Apr 7, 2022 13:46:35 GMT -5 pugz said:

My understanding on the injectible weight loss meds is that once you stop taking them you rapidly regain the weight.

For some people it may, for others it may not. People have more success with using during maintenance and a slow titration down. I certainly don’t think it’s a reason to not try medication. If taking a medication long-term improves specific health goals and makes me happier with my body size, I am completely fine taking medication long-term. It’s better than the alternative for me.
Surgery is the only other method with long-term success, and it has life-long alterations as well. Because one is fighting genetics and biology, any option will likely be something that is long-term.

[bronxgirl]

Apr 7, 2022 14:23:39 GMT -5 boiler717 said:

Apr 7, 2022 13:46:35 GMT -5 pugz said:

My understanding on the injectible weight loss meds is that once you stop taking them you rapidly regain the weight.

For some people it may, for others it may not. People have more success with using during maintenance and a slow titration down. I certainly don’t think it’s a reason to not try medication. If taking a medication long-term improves specific health goals and makes me happier with my body size, I am completely fine taking medication long-term. It’s better than the alternative for me.
Surgery is the only other method with long-term success, and it has life-long alterations as well. Because one is fighting genetics and biology, any option will likely be something that is long-term.

I would think this is true for most medications for chronic issues. If I stop taking my blood pressure medication, my blood pressure will shoot up. If I stop taking my antidepressant, my depression and anxiety will increase.  That's not a reason to not take medication. Just the opposite- it means the medication is actually working and I need to make sure I take it as prescribed. 

[dutchgirl678]

Good for you for getting help and trying to figure out the root of the problem for you. I recommend checking out Diane Sanfilippo. She has written Paleo and Keto cookbooks but recently started talking about anti-dieting and why she no longer endorses any diet in particular. I have personally learned a lot about nutrient-dense food. I try to avoid processed foods, gluten, sugar. But it is hard to be 100% compliant so I give myself some grace to deviate from my plans. I still have about 30 lbs to lose and I am not seeing the scale move but I am tired of the dieting and making myself feel bad if I don't do everything perfectly.

[boiler717]

Apr 7, 2022 15:38:52 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Apr 7, 2022 14:23:39 GMT -5 boiler717 said:

For some people it may, for others it may not. People have more success with using during maintenance and a slow titration down. I certainly don’t think it’s a reason to not try medication. If taking a medication long-term improves specific health goals and makes me happier with my body size, I am completely fine taking medication long-term. It’s better than the alternative for me.
Surgery is the only other method with long-term success, and it has life-long alterations as well. Because one is fighting genetics and biology, any option will likely be something that is long-term.

I would think this is true for most medications for chronic issues. If I stop taking my blood pressure medication, my blood pressure will shoot up. If I stop taking my antidepressant, my depression and anxiety will increase.  That's not a reason to not take medication. Just the opposite- it means the medication is actually working and I need to make sure I take it as prescribed. 

Yes!! Treating obesity like a disease instead of a lack of willpower/dedication. There is nothing shameful about needing medication for disease treatment.