TW Diet talk: Challenges with anti-dieting

[okla]

Love how these threads always devolve into “here’s how I lost weight!”

[wawa]

Apr 7, 2022 16:50:29 GMT -5 okla said:

Love how these threads always devolve into “here’s how I lost weight!”

every time. 

[goldengirlz]

Yes! Self-compassion is so important. This is HARD.

One thing I’ve discovered through mindfulness is that when I do “overeat,” I’m usually less hungry the next couple of days. So now I don’t stress as much about overindulging. It’s a subtle mindset shift but it’s stopped those feelings of “I blew it” and then spiraling. I remind myself that when I listen to my body, I can’t screw this up. Such a refreshing change from the all-or-nothing diet mentality.

[sent]

Apr 7, 2022 16:50:29 GMT -5 okla said:

Love how these threads always devolve into “here’s how I lost weight!”

Is there a problem with that?

[wanderingback]

Apr 8, 2022 7:31:19 GMT -5 sent said:

Apr 7, 2022 16:50:29 GMT -5 okla said:

Love how these threads always devolve into “here’s how I lost weight!”

Is there a problem with that?

The principles behind not dieting (which is what the OP mentioned) and health at every size are to not make the focus on weight/weight loss since that isn’t always a good indicator of health and wellness.

[Velar Fricative]

Apr 8, 2022 7:34:14 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Apr 8, 2022 7:31:19 GMT -5 sent said:

Is there a problem with that?

The principles behind not dieting (which is what the OP mentioned) and health at every size are to not make the focus on weight/weight loss since that isn’t always a good indicator of health and wellness.

Right. My size right now is not the size I feel is best for my body, because I know I am at this weight due to binge-eating, and I don't want to binge-eat. I could try to get down to the lowest weight I've been in my adult life, but that's what I'm trying to get away from because it involved restrictions. I know I will not maintain that weight, nor do I want to. My goal is to work on my disordered eating with a professional in hopes that I will "settle" into a specific weight (a "happy" weight, I guess) that does not involve being restrictive and demonizing any foods unless I happen to require certain restrictions for medical reasons. What it took 20 years for me to accept is that that "happy" weight could end up being at a weight that's considered "overweight," but I don't care about that anymore as long as all of my health markers are fine (right now, they are not, so I have to fix that and the expectation is that weight will come off gradually once I resolve the underlying issues with binge-eating, but weight loss isn't the actual goal). That's HAES in a nutshell.

[eddy]

It is a life time journey for me on self-compassion. I have talked often on here about how 80s diet mom culture did a NUMBER on me. It is so hard to fight against something that was ingrained into you in formative years. I have a core memory of picking out a piece of tupperware to gift my mom for Christmas. She was on a diet and I thought it would be a great way to store her canned peaches that were part of the diet? I don't have many memories of my mom that can't be tied back at some point to dieting, or her hating her own body, her praise of my body when it looked "right" etc. I am certain when my mom died, she was still on a diet. Ugh so fucking toxic.

[sent]

Apr 8, 2022 7:34:14 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Apr 8, 2022 7:31:19 GMT -5 sent said:

Is there a problem with that?

The principles behind not dieting (which is what the OP mentioned) and health at every size are to not make the focus on weight/weight loss since that isn’t always a good indicator of health and wellness.

I know and I think the OP got a good mix of advice here. Some recommendations of professionals she can consult with and some stories about weight loss that didn't involve focusing on weight/weight loss. I learned a lot from this thread so I appreciate Velar Fricative posting this. I did not know there are RDs that are "non diet" and I learned about the pharmacological options that some posters shared that worked for them. 

Just making sure I was reading the same thread. 

[circa1978]

Apr 8, 2022 7:57:01 GMT -5 eddy said:

It is a life time journey for me on self-compassion. I have talked often on here about how 80s diet mom culture did a NUMBER on me. It is so hard to fight against something that was ingrained into you in formative years. I have a core memory of picking out a piece of tupperware to gift my mom for Christmas. She was on a diet and I thought it would be a great way to store her canned peaches that were part of the diet? I don't have many memories of my mom that can't be tied back at some point to dieting, or her hating her own body, her praise of my body when it looked "right" etc. I am certain when my mom died, she was still on a diet. Ugh so fucking toxic.

QFT.

The most my mother has ever weighed was 130 pounds, nine months pregnant with me. She and my aunt are obsessed with being thin. The best thing I could be was beautiful and "ladylike" (although I was also supposed to be smart and do well and school) and it was a reflection on my parents if I was not. I was on my first diet at 9. My mom also didn't exercise and can't cook, so she fed us pasta (we're Italian-American) or got us take-out every night while she ate a yogurt. But being "fat" was my fault. 

[goldengirlz]

Apr 8, 2022 7:57:01 GMT -5 eddy said:

It is a life time journey for me on self-compassion. I have talked often on here about how 80s diet mom culture did a NUMBER on me. It is so hard to fight against something that was ingrained into you in formative years. I have a core memory of picking out a piece of tupperware to gift my mom for Christmas. She was on a diet and I thought it would be a great way to store her canned peaches that were part of the diet? I don't have many memories of my mom that can't be tied back at some point to dieting, or her hating her own body, her praise of my body when it looked "right" etc. I am certain when my mom died, she was still on a diet. Ugh so fucking toxic.

I can relate to this so much. My mom always hated her body and has spent almost her entire life in the cycle of binge-and-restrict. She doubled down on it after my dad died. She was constantly commenting on our bodies too. I know it’s because she was just as brainwashed by diet culture but it still makes me really sad.

But I’ve also internalized a lot of her self-loathing. When I started gaining weight a few years ago, I kept thinking, “I don’t want my mom’s body.” But I do try to push back on that thought. Maybe her body IS my genetic destiny. But would that really be so bad? I always thought she was really beautiful even if she was overweight/obese. And she’s otherwise the picture of health (although as an aside, doctors are ALWAYS surprised that she’s metabolically healthy. My biggest fear about gaining more weight is being shamed by the medical establishment.)

[longtimenopost]

Apr 7, 2022 16:50:29 GMT -5 okla said:

Love how these threads always devolve into “here’s how I lost weight!”

I can see that for the diet posts, but could also be framed from myself (and others) "you are showing symptoms similar to what I experienced before I was treated for this medical condition." 

I was where OP was. SO TIRED of dieting and wanting to be free "just let me LIVEE" but also feeling uncomfortable and unwell in my body. Utilizing medication, I was able to get to that "happy weight" OP mentions that is still not thin. I'm 5'9" and 205 lbs. I wear a size 14-16. But I can eat what I want and still feel comfortable in my body. The urge to binge eat has nearly disappeared even though I'm off the medication, because my habits have changed so much. 

Damn. That sounds like an infomercial  . But seriously, I have so much empathy for OP and anyone who is experiencing this. 

[boiler717]

Apr 8, 2022 7:52:06 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 8, 2022 7:34:14 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

The principles behind not dieting (which is what the OP mentioned) and health at every size are to not make the focus on weight/weight loss since that isn’t always a good indicator of health and wellness.

Right. My size right now is not the size I feel is best for my body, because I know I am at this weight due to binge-eating, and I don't want to binge-eat. I could try to get down to the lowest weight I've been in my adult life, but that's what I'm trying to get away from because it involved restrictions. I know I will not maintain that weight, nor do I want to. My goal is to work on my disordered eating with a professional in hopes that I will "settle" into a specific weight (a "happy" weight, I guess) that does not involve being restrictive and demonizing any foods unless I happen to require certain restrictions for medical reasons. What it took 20 years for me to accept is that that "happy" weight could end up being at a weight that's considered "overweight," but I don't care about that anymore as long as all of my health markers are fine (right now, they are not, so I have to fix that and the expectation is that weight will come off gradually once I resolve the underlying issues with binge-eating, but weight loss isn't the actual goal). That's HAES in a nutshell.

Accepting that my weight, health, and size are 3 different things with different levels of focus has been critical for me. I know that my weight is never something that can be a reasonable goal of mine based on my past and genetics but everyone is different. Finding out that I could address the things I wanted to change about my health and size without having to diet / focus on calorie restriction has been life-changing for me. I am now very comfortable with my health but would still like to address my size because it keeps me from doing some things I want to do, so I take medication. Even though I take medication, I don’t consider myself “on a diet” because I don’t focus on my food or calorie intake and learning to reject the hugely prevalent idea that caloric restriction / willpower is the only way to change your size was a big part of my journey.
I can see how that would be insensitive in your post, and I’m sorry if it upset you.

[notsopicky]

Apr 8, 2022 7:52:06 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 8, 2022 7:34:14 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

The principles behind not dieting (which is what the OP mentioned) and health at every size are to not make the focus on weight/weight loss since that isn’t always a good indicator of health and wellness.

Right. My size right now is not the size I feel is best for my body, because I know I am at this weight due to binge-eating, and I don't want to binge-eat. I could try to get down to the lowest weight I've been in my adult life, but that's what I'm trying to get away from because it involved restrictions. I know I will not maintain that weight, nor do I want to. My goal is to work on my disordered eating with a professional in hopes that I will "settle" into a specific weight (a "happy" weight, I guess) that does not involve being restrictive and demonizing any foods unless I happen to require certain restrictions for medical reasons. What it took 20 years for me to accept is that that "happy" weight could end up being at a weight that's considered "overweight," but I don't care about that anymore as long as all of my health markers are fine (right now, they are not, so I have to fix that and the expectation is that weight will come off gradually once I resolve the underlying issues with binge-eating, but weight loss isn't the actual goal). That's HAES in a nutshell.

I feel these 2 bolded things very hard. I don't want to binge-eat anymore either; at many different points of my life my eating has been out of control. For me, stopping the binge-eating is, in itself, a restriction (in a purely semantic sense), and I need it (I guess it's a restriction in the sense of avoiding too much food, rather than avoiding X, Y, or Z food). 

[twilightmv]

I really am trying to stay away from diet talk, I swear, and don't take my post over a nutritionist, your doctor, or a dietician. And, as another disclaimer, I originally set upon this journey not as a diet whatsoever. I think that helped make it stick. I said that these were changes I needed to make for my physical and mental health, and regardless of whether I lost a single pound these changes were in my best interest.

SPOILER: Click to show

But for me, cutting out my binge foods helped reset my hunger and satiety cues. Because I used to eat an entire box of donuts and never feel full. I'd always eat if there was food in front of me. I always finished my plate. With certain things, I'd always eat until it was either gone or I felt sick. It wasn't a quick fix, but at this point in my life, and after cutting out the things that messed with my brain like that, I am very in touch with my hunger and satiety cues. You could put my favorite food in front of me, and if I'm not hungry I can breezily pass it up. And if I am hungry, I don't stress over whether or not to eat. And while I'm eating, when I'm full, I can stop, even if there's just a few more bites left or more in the kitchen. I feel good after I eat- satisfied, energized, guilt free. I always thought this was impossible for me.
I apologize if this post is annoying. And it's not meant as advice, as the steps I took were made for me and me alone. The only reason I am contributing is because the Op asked if there's "hope". Everyone's journey will look different and everyone's challenges are different. But I am trying to answer the whether there is hope with "yes".

[Velar Fricative]

Just wanted to provide an update. I had my therapy session this morning and unfortunately, it was a total disappointment. She advised me to go see a nutritionist to learn how to eat and didn't seem to listen when I said 1) I *know* how to eat, and 2) it's more about how much I've been eating and whether this is tied to my anxiety and how I can reduce and eliminate my binge-eating episodes.

I know this is often part of the process in finding the right assistance but I'm just really disappointed with some of the things she said. OTOH, it made me think about what I'm really looking for, and I don't know if I know what I'm looking for, or I can't seem to articulate it well.

[cuadrado]

Apr 12, 2022 10:19:44 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Just wanted to provide an update. I had my therapy session this morning and unfortunately, it was a total disappointment. She advised me to go see a nutritionist to learn how to eat and didn't seem to listen when I said 1) I *know* how to eat, and 2) it's more about how much I've been eating and whether this is tied to my anxiety and how I can reduce and eliminate my binge-eating episodes.

I know this is often part of the process in finding the right assistance but I'm just really disappointed with some of the things she said. OTOH, it made me think about what I'm really looking for, and I don't know if I know what I'm looking for, or I can't seem to articulate it well.

Was this a general therapist or one who specialized in eating disorders?

Typically in this situation, a registered dietitian and a therapist work together. I would recommend searching for an RD who specializes in eating disorders first, and they will refer you to a therapist if they feel like it's needed. 

[Velar Fricative]

Apr 12, 2022 10:29:12 GMT -5 cuadrado said:

Apr 12, 2022 10:19:44 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Just wanted to provide an update. I had my therapy session this morning and unfortunately, it was a total disappointment. She advised me to go see a nutritionist to learn how to eat and didn't seem to listen when I said 1) I *know* how to eat, and 2) it's more about how much I've been eating and whether this is tied to my anxiety and how I can reduce and eliminate my binge-eating episodes.

I know this is often part of the process in finding the right assistance but I'm just really disappointed with some of the things she said. OTOH, it made me think about what I'm really looking for, and I don't know if I know what I'm looking for, or I can't seem to articulate it well.

Was this a general therapist or one who specialized in eating disorders?

Typically in this situation, a registered dietitian and a therapist work together. I would recommend searching for an RD who specializes in eating disorders first, and they will refer you to a therapist if they feel like it's needed. 

When I looked her up under my insurance portal it said she was a therapist and that one of her specialties was eating disorders.

I guess where I'm having difficulty squaring all of this is that I don't think I need an RD. Or maybe I do and I'm the stubborn one. I don't know. I just don't want someone to tell me to re-join WW like this therapist did.

[cuadrado]

Apr 12, 2022 10:35:48 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 12, 2022 10:29:12 GMT -5 cuadrado said:

Was this a general therapist or one who specialized in eating disorders?

Typically in this situation, a registered dietitian and a therapist work together. I would recommend searching for an RD who specializes in eating disorders first, and they will refer you to a therapist if they feel like it's needed. 

When I looked her up under my insurance portal it said she was a therapist and that one of her specialties was eating disorders.

I guess where I'm having difficulty squaring all of this is that I don't think I need an RD. Or maybe I do and I'm the stubborn one. I don't know. I just don't want someone to tell me to re-join WW like this therapist did.

Just from reading your posts, I think a registered dietitian is going to be central to helping you move forward. I think a lot of people have misconceptions about dietitians (that we just prescribe meal plans or tell people what to eat), but a big part of sessions is actually therapeutic! Feel free to DM me if you have any questions.  

[bronxgirl]

Velar Fricative, I'm sorry your therapy appointment was disappointing. Unfortunately many practitioners identify a large range of diagnoses as their specialty, even when that is not the case. I work in mental health and I have a lot of colleagues who are still very much in the diet culture mindset which can creep into their work. If I understand correctly, it sounds like your primary concern is what is behind your binge eating and how you can stop it.

[Velar Fricative]

Apr 12, 2022 11:07:37 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Velar Fricative , I'm sorry your therapy appointment was disappointing. Unfortunately many practitioners identify a large range of diagnoses as their specialty, even when that is not the case. I work in mental health and I have a lot of colleagues who are still very much in the diet culture mindset which can creep into their work. If I understand correctly, it sounds like your primary concern is what is behind your binge eating and how you can stop it.

Yes, that's it. And I said that a few times just to make sure I was being super clear. But maybe I wasn't that clear, I don't know.

[wanderingback]

Apr 12, 2022 11:14:11 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 12, 2022 11:07:37 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Velar Fricative , I'm sorry your therapy appointment was disappointing. Unfortunately many practitioners identify a large range of diagnoses as their specialty, even when that is not the case. I work in mental health and I have a lot of colleagues who are still very much in the diet culture mindset which can creep into their work. If I understand correctly, it sounds like your primary concern is what is behind your binge eating and how you can stop it.

Yes, that's it. And I said that a few times just to make sure I was being super clear. But maybe I wasn't that clear, I don't know.

I’m sorry you had a not great appointment.

Is this therapist a psychologist? Did they give you a specific diagnosis yet?

I know it sucks to start from scratch but what it seems needs to happen is you need to go to someone licensed to get a diagnosis, then the treatment plan can follow. Is it general anxiety? OCD? Depression? PTSD? Binge eating disorder? Dual diagnosis? Etc.

If you need help finding someone (psychiatrist or psychologist) I can reach out to my networks.

[shauni27]

Apr 12, 2022 10:49:01 GMT -5 cuadrado said:

Apr 12, 2022 10:35:48 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

When I looked her up under my insurance portal it said she was a therapist and that one of her specialties was eating disorders.

I guess where I'm having difficulty squaring all of this is that I don't think I need an RD. Or maybe I do and I'm the stubborn one. I don't know. I just don't want someone to tell me to re-join WW like this therapist did.

Just from reading your posts, I think a registered dietitian is going to be central to helping you move forward. I think a lot of people have misconceptions about dietitians (that we just prescribe meal plans or tell people what to eat), but a big part of sessions is actually therapeutic! Feel free to DM me if you have any questions.  

This is what I was going to say as well! I think you are thinking of a nutritionist (not registered) versus an RD; my bff is an RD and her focus is entirely intuitive eating and moving away from diet culture. She always tells me the biggest part of her job is providing therapy to her clients.

[Velar Fricative]

Apr 12, 2022 11:39:47 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Apr 12, 2022 11:14:11 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Yes, that's it. And I said that a few times just to make sure I was being super clear. But maybe I wasn't that clear, I don't know.

I’m sorry you had a not great appointment.

Is this therapist a psychologist? Did they give you a specific diagnosis yet?

I know it sucks to start from scratch but what it seems needs to happen is you need to go to someone licensed to get a diagnosis, then the treatment plan can follow. Is it general anxiety? OCD? Depression? PTSD? Binge eating disorder? Dual diagnosis? Etc.

If you need help finding someone (psychiatrist or psychologist) I can reach out to my networks.

No, this one was an LCSW. I have previously been diagnosed with anxiety and take medication for it, but recently stopped therapy for that (we never discussed eating habits because they weren't what they are now, and the anxiety was a result of a particular trauma).

[eponinepontmercy]

Apr 5, 2022 13:20:42 GMT -5 TR said:

Apr 5, 2022 11:38:15 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

-I gave myself permission to throw out food. Not in a wasteful way, but like if I want to try something I gave myself permission to not eat the whole thing and throw it away. This was really new for me because I come from a clean your plate family. Like someone handed me cake at a b-day party and I realized it wasn't THAT great so I ate a couple bites and tossed it.

I saw someone say once something like if you're overeating something to avoid wasting it, to consider that having it just be turned into fat in your body is still a waste.

I want you to know that I just threw out a package of cookies.  They weren't very good, but normally I would have just kept them and eaten them anyway.  

[mrsukyankee]

Velar Fricative, I'd say you might need a team and that someone who is a good part of the team might be able to suggest the other members. A good doctor who is on board, a therapist who is very specially trained and either a dietician or nutritionist who has a specialty in binge disorders. You can look at Psychology Today to find specialists in eating disorders (and I'd look for someone who has done work with binge eating). Look for someone who puts it as one of their first specialties and look for training in eating disorders (ask a lot of questions once they get back to you). Good luck!

[foundmylazybum]

Velar Fricative, I wanted to tell you that from your posts here it has been very clear--almost from your first or second post that you were wanting to explore the root cause of the situation/issue. I'm sorry that your appointment didn't go the way you wanted. I echo others that I think that there is a team of people who are out there for you and I am rooting for you to get support. ::heart:::

[ESF]

Apr 12, 2022 11:07:37 GMT -5 bronxgirl said:

Velar Fricative , I'm sorry your therapy appointment was disappointing. Unfortunately many practitioners identify a large range of diagnoses as their specialty, even when that is not the case. I work in mental health and I have a lot of colleagues who are still very much in the diet culture mindset which can creep into their work. If I understand correctly, it sounds like your primary concern is what is behind your binge eating and how you can stop it.

I agree with this.  And I think "eating disorder" specialist often means that they treat anexoria and buliema in underweight people, and can't be relied on to assume that they are suitable for BED or helping people deal with general patterns of disordered eating that are interfering with their lives, but not in a way that qualifies them as an eating disorder.


Two things you can do --

1. Google possible therapists' names along with things like eating disorders, weight, intuitive eating, etc, to see what if anything comes up.   
 
2. email or call them and ask if they work with patients who want to work on intuitive eating, body confidence, and/or take a HAES approach. Even if you are looking for something much broader than that, I found it to be a good litmus test.  You don't have to reveal a ton of stuff about yourself before an appointment, and it's an easy question that any therapist who might be suitable will be able to answer pretty quickly. 

And if I'm being completely honest, the fact that my current therapist is not thin herself was a huge plus factor.

And I'm really sorry about the appointment. I hope you find the right fit soon.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Apr 12, 2022 10:35:48 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Apr 12, 2022 10:29:12 GMT -5 cuadrado said:

Was this a general therapist or one who specialized in eating disorders?

Typically in this situation, a registered dietitian and a therapist work together. I would recommend searching for an RD who specializes in eating disorders first, and they will refer you to a therapist if they feel like it's needed. 

When I looked her up under my insurance portal it said she was a therapist and that one of her specialties was eating disorders.

I guess where I'm having difficulty squaring all of this is that I don't think I need an RD. Or maybe I do and I'm the stubborn one. I don't know. I just don't want someone to tell me to re-join WW like this therapist did.

I feel like to access any medical care about eating/diet/weight covered by insurance, seeing a RD is (sometimes unfortunately) going to be part of it.  I literally say the same things to my RD at every appointment where I have to talk to him before seeing the weight loss dr. who prescribes me my meds.  I look at it as a necessary annoyance.  He asks what I ate for the past few days, says hmmm, if that's what you've been eating you SHOULD be loosing weight (duh, that's why I came here), and says maybe the dr. will have some suggestions for me, and then asks if I have any questions for him.  I really lost respect for him when I told him that my #1 goal in coming there was because the only program that I was ever able to be successful in losing weight on was Optavia, which is an MLM where you eat 5 protein bars/snacks/shakes plus 1 meal of lean protein and green veggies a day, and while it worked, I couldn't sustain it because it was only 1000 calories a day and I was starving all the time and kept giving in to binge-ing.  I also wanted to get off all the processed protein stuff and eat real food again.  So after 2 months of following the eating plan he helped me set up and not loosing, his only advice was 'maybe replace a meal with a protein shake' and I was like yeah, not taking anything you say too seriously anymore at this point (not saying that protein shakes have no place in a healthy diet, just that my goal was to find a way to loose weight by eating real food and the actual dr. was on board with this and he was too at first).  

[pugz]

In 2019 I saw an anti-diet dietician and a therapist at an eating disorder clinic. I presented with an anxiety disorder and disordered eating behaviors.

The therapist quickly figured out that the meds I was on were not enough. I was on lexapro (still am) and it takes the edge off but I also needed wellbutrin to really get to a better place (also to revive my libido). I also explored the things that were triggering my anxiety and work through that.

The RD helped me figure out the restrict/binge cycle and how to embrace intuitive eating concepts. She gave me zero diet tips, specific food recommendations, and never weighed me. She helped me heal my relationship with food. She runs online workshops so if you are interested I could connect you. She is amazing.

[foundmylazybum]

I've seen an RD at different points throughout the years and none of them have suggested weight watchers. Ever.

I think they have often challenged my beliefs around food, helped me explore my habits and helped me explore ways to expand my relationship to food. Also, honestly they work to try to think beyond binary goals that are present in a diet focused, weight conscious world, which can be one way to help stop or help binge eating