TW Another Day in America: Buffalo

[Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear]

Is it ok if I post this?

www.cnn.com/us/live-news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting/h_6e6c0c078f3a3429e86be2c36a47ad0f

www.npr.org/2022/05/14/1098967493/buffalo-supermarket-shooting

10 lives. 1st degree murder, hate crime. Gunman is 18 years old. At least they are moving swiftly.

[Jalapeñomel]

TMZ said it was live streamed.

What a shit horrible thing and I’m sad it’s such a regular occurrence.

Edit: the articles above also confirm it was live streamed

[erbear]

Traveled to a Black neighborhood to shoot it up. Fuck everything.

[underwaterrhymes]

I hate this country.

[Velar Fricative]

The reasons behind this tragedy are not a shock to anyone who’s been paying attention to how talk once assumed to be “extreme” is now mainstream in America. Fuck everything.

I am heartbroken.

[sweetchix]

This hits close to home as I live just outside of Buffalo. He posted a manifesto and had everything planned out down to how many times he’d shoot each person. Sick bastard!! My heart hurts for everyone affected.

[NewGirlNic]

This happened 3 miles from my house. I worked in that grocery store (years ago, at an in store bank that is no longer open). It’s so devastating. Seeing things like this in the news is unfortunately so common now. But when it happens in your own backyard/community it hits different.
The piece of shit is pleading not guilty.
www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/tops-shooting-suspect-arraigned-in-buffalo-city-court?fbclid=IwAR2o_byOI5wR7OQA7nUC64vf2ey9_xir_EXUQMaZrnXPHZdBR41hx3sK1yQ

[Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear]

Anyone rah rah about the US, even quietly, needs to know that this kind of thing is why the rest of the world think we are fucking maniacs.

They are right.

[lilac05]

Horrific.

Meanwhile, 20 people shot in Milwaukee is barely even making the news. (That’s not a complaint about coverage…only that it’s awful that something so much worse happened that this isn’t getting much attention.) Sounds like a completely different situation there, though. 10 people arrested and 10 weapons confiscated. Curfew in place for tonight. I have family who lives in walking distance to this, and both planned to be in that area but changed plans last minute.
amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/14/us/milwaukee-shooting-nba-game/index.html

[isabel]

He had a gun and they somehow managed to arrest him, not shoot him. I just can't.

[basilosaurus]

May 14, 2022 21:48:59 GMT -5 Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear said:

Anyone rah rah about the US, even quietly, needs to know that this kind of thing is why the rest of the world think we are fucking maniacs.

They are right.

I asked some people where I live, non-Americans. They were non-plussed. They basically said, well, yeah, it's America. We expect this. And they then listed various mass shootings like Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, Aurora. They're not surprised, not angry, not dismissive of me as an American. Just, yep, it's as American as apple pie (this literally was said to me). Shrug.

It was less calling us maniacs and more calling the sky blue which is actually much worse. 

Japanese I've met really want to come to the States but are afraid of being shot. While it's statistically unlikely, they're not wrong to have that fear.

Aussies think we're pathetic as after a single mass shooting they basically voluntarily gave up their guns and banned most ownership, and previously they were nearly as pro-gun. They're not wrong, either.

FUCK THE NRA.

[underwaterrhymes]

May 15, 2022 3:57:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

May 14, 2022 21:48:59 GMT -5 Queen Dick, Hibernating Bear said:

Anyone rah rah about the US, even quietly, needs to know that this kind of thing is why the rest of the world think we are fucking maniacs.

They are right.

I asked some people where I live, non-Americans. They were non-plussed. They basically said, well, yeah, it's America. We expect this. And they then listed various mass shootings like Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, Aurora. They're not surprised, not angry, not dismissive of me as an American. Just, yep, it's as American as apple pie (this literally was said to me). Shrug.

It was less calling us maniacs and more calling the sky blue which is actually much worse. 

Japanese I've met really want to come to the States but are afraid of being shot. While it's statistically unlikely, they're not wrong to have that fear.

Aussies think we're pathetic as after a single mass shooting they basically voluntarily gave up their guns and banned most ownership, and previously they were nearly as pro-gun. They're not wrong, either.

FUCK THE NRA.

@@@@@ yeah, years ago, my aunt and uncle were moving back to the States from living in Israel for many years in the AF.

My cousin, who was maybe 12 at the time, expressed terror because of all of our mass shootings. 😭

And when I served in the Peace Corps in the Caribbean, I had a really hard time explaining homelessness. People couldn’t understand why people didn’t take care of each other. I didn’t have an answer for them other than we value all the wrong things here.

[neverfstop]

per TPM
One of the ten dead was a retired cop working as a security guard at the grocery store. He engaged the shooter and shot him. But it didn’t stop him because the shooter was wearing body armor.

--------

So a good guy with a gun didn't save the day and ended up dying too.

[sent]

neverfstop, I had the same exact thought, good guy with a gun. This store had such a person, even in New York.

[cattledogkisses]

May 15, 2022 5:02:04 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

May 15, 2022 3:57:10 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I asked some people where I live, non-Americans. They were non-plussed. They basically said, well, yeah, it's America. We expect this. And they then listed various mass shootings like Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, Aurora. They're not surprised, not angry, not dismissive of me as an American. Just, yep, it's as American as apple pie (this literally was said to me). Shrug.

It was less calling us maniacs and more calling the sky blue which is actually much worse. 

Japanese I've met really want to come to the States but are afraid of being shot. While it's statistically unlikely, they're not wrong to have that fear.

Aussies think we're pathetic as after a single mass shooting they basically voluntarily gave up their guns and banned most ownership, and previously they were nearly as pro-gun. They're not wrong, either.

FUCK THE NRA.

@@@@@ yeah, years ago, my aunt and uncle were moving back to the States from living in Israel for many years in the AF.

My cousin, who was maybe 12 at the time, expressed terror because of all of our mass shootings. 😭

And when I served in the Peace Corps in the Caribbean, I had a really hard time explaining homelessness. People couldn’t understand why people didn’t take care of each other. I didn’t have an answer for them other than we value all the wrong things here.

When I was in grad school my office mate was an international student, and her parents were absolutely terrified that she was going to grad school here because of how unsafe and violent the US is.

[dulcemariamar]

Did they say how he got the guns? Did they do a background check because he was reported because he threatened to shoot up his school.

I think if you end up selling the gun to these people or giving it to them and you fail to do a background check then you should be charged for the crime as well.

[Velar Fricative]

I won’t be surprised if this is another situation like the Crumbley situation. Yes, the murderer is a legal adult, but barely. And he was investigated while in high school.

[NewOrleans]

May 15, 2022 9:04:26 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I won’t be surprised if this is another situation like the Crumbley situation. Yes, the murderer is a legal adult, but barely. And he was investigated while in high school.

I think it’s more likely it’s another Kyle R situation.  (Not typing his name). 

His hate manifesto:  “also goes on about his perceptions of the dwindling size of the White population and claims of ethnic and cultural replacement of Whites.A portion of the document is written in question-and-answer form.  The manifesto's author attributes the internet for most of his beliefs and describes himself as a fascist, a White supremacist and an anti-Semite.” (per CNN)

Also specifically says he is indeed radicalized and “pays tribute to the gunman in the Christchurch, New Zealand, shootings, who killed 51 people at two mosques—referring to the 2019 mass shooter as ‘the person that radicalized [me] the most.’ The writer specifically lauds the earlier gunman’s obsession with the ‘Great Replacement’ conspiracy theory, a racist fantasy about a supposed plot to eliminate white people.”  (Per Daily Beast).  I’m not linking it because his name is in the link and I don’t want to assist amplifying his name.

Police haven’t authenticated the online hate document.

I know the Republican narrative will be a mentally ill lone wolf, etc.  But I don’t know how they reconcile that narrative when he’s literally saying their own statements. Like these www.axios.com/2021/09/29/white-replacement-theory-gains-ground-among-gop or literally anything a certain Congressman from Iowa spewed every day.  The same way they reconcile all their other cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy, I guess. 😖

[erbear]

Talking points directly from Tucker Carlson.

[waverly]

May 15, 2022 8:08:20 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Did they say how he got the guns? Did they do a background check because he was reported because he threatened to shoot up his school.

I think if you end up selling the gun to these people or giving it to them and you fail to do a background check then you should be charged for the crime as well.

So I have some experience with this now. Due to mental illness of a family member it was decided he shouldn’t buy weapons. We told local police, the hospital (psych ward), FBI and state police. Law enforcement would NOT do anything about putting him on the registry to not buy guns. Apparent if we want that to happen we have to file in probate court out of pocket expense for us and for a lawyer and then the person has to be served and explained their rights and given a lawyer. Then appear in front of a judge.

So yeah the system is set up that it’s super easy for crazy people to buy guns and super difficult to prevent them. Family member has no history that would show up in a background check.

We did not pursue it in court because family member is now in assisted living and no access to their money.

No wonder this country is Fucked because guns are a constitutional right (have more rights than women btw).

Also the onus is all on the individual’s family to prevent and while we had the resources to file for psych hold and conservatorship many families would not know how to do that or have the resources to pay for an attorney. And the state does nothing.

[cattledogkisses]

May 15, 2022 12:49:54 GMT -5 waverly said:

May 15, 2022 8:08:20 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Did they say how he got the guns? Did they do a background check because he was reported because he threatened to shoot up his school.

I think if you end up selling the gun to these people or giving it to them and you fail to do a background check then you should be charged for the crime as well.

So I have some experience with this now. Due to mental illness of a family member it was decided he shouldn’t buy weapons. We told local police, the hospital (psych ward), FBI and state police. Law enforcement would NOT do anything about putting him on the registry to not buy guns. Apparent if we want that to happen we have to file in probate court out of pocket expense for us and for a lawyer and then the person has to be served and explained their rights and given a lawyer. Then appear in front of a judge.

So yeah the system is set up that it’s super easy for crazy people to buy guns and super difficult to prevent them. Family member has no history that would show up in a background check.

We did not pursue it in court because family member is now in assisted living and no access to their money.

No wonder this country is Fucked because guns are a constitutional right (have more rights than women btw).

Also the onus is all on the individual’s family to prevent and while we had the resources to file for psych hold and conservatorship many families would not know how to do that or have the resources to pay for an attorney. And the state does nothing.

I've also gone through this with an extended family member, and basically concluded the same thing: it is next to impossible to prevent an adult from buying/owning guns if they don't have a criminal history.

[waverly]

I should add we were originally told that the court would report the mental health hold to state police, and they did not. Apparently since it was a temp hold it doesn’t get reported. So even though a Google search says mental health hold for not buying guns, that isn’t true.

He must have not had the right kind of hold or maybe they mean if it goes through the entire court case of the LEEN as it is called in that state. So even with the mental health hold it did not get reported to state police that he cannot buy guns. So I’m sure an evaluation would also not put him on the list for that state.

[rubytue]

May 15, 2022 9:47:32 GMT -5 erbear said:

Talking points directly from Tucker Carlson.

Right…

And where is the line between batshit crazy with far right talking points and mental illness?  Is it mental illness or a lack of critical thinking skills that allows one to become radicalized? And I think that dismissing mass shooters as mentally I’ll does a disservice to others struggling, because most mental illness is not violent.

[VillainV]

May 15, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5 rubytue said:

May 15, 2022 9:47:32 GMT -5 erbear said:

Talking points directly from Tucker Carlson.

Right…

And where is the line between batshit crazy with far right talking points and mental illness?  Is it mental illness or a lack of critical thinking skills that allows one to become radicalized? And I think that dismissing mass shooters as mentally I’ll does a disservice to others struggling, because most mental illness is not violent.

In my opinion, the answer is to make guns more difficult for EVERYONE to buy, and to limit the types of guns and ammunition available for citizens. I don’t know what type of weapon the individual in Buffalo used, but I think most people agree that assault weapons don’t need to be available to the general public.

[kiminky]

May 15, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5 rubytue said:

May 15, 2022 9:47:32 GMT -5 erbear said:

Talking points directly from Tucker Carlson.

Right…

And where is the line between batshit crazy with far right talking points and mental illness?  Is it mental illness or a lack of critical thinking skills that allows one to become radicalized? And I think that dismissing mass shooters as mentally I’ll does a disservice to others struggling, because most mental illness is not violent.

White supremacy is not a mental illness.

[rubytue]

May 15, 2022 15:46:14 GMT -5 kiminky said:

May 15, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Right…

And where is the line between batshit crazy with far right talking points and mental illness?  Is it mental illness or a lack of critical thinking skills that allows one to become radicalized? And I think that dismissing mass shooters as mentally I’ll does a disservice to others struggling, because most mental illness is not violent.

White supremacy is not a mental illness.

100% agree. Not sure if my point was fully formed or clear. All these conversations about mass shootings (bigger than GBCN) end up talking about mental illness. But, for the love of cats, they are all angry, white males. And then the far right claims that liberalism is mental illness, but yet they dismiss “lone wolves” as mentally ill, when it’s their fucking talking points leading to it. Lots unpacking in my brain and just spilling out. 

[NewOrleans]

May 15, 2022 15:46:14 GMT -5 kiminky said:

May 15, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Right…

And where is the line between batshit crazy with far right talking points and mental illness?  Is it mental illness or a lack of critical thinking skills that allows one to become radicalized? And I think that dismissing mass shooters as mentally I’ll does a disservice to others struggling, because most mental illness is not violent.

White supremacy is not a mental illness.

It’s definitely a choice, but I think the psychology of radicalization (and deradicalization) needs to be a part of the conversation that a functional nation would have.  

[kiminky]

May 15, 2022 16:11:44 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

May 15, 2022 15:46:14 GMT -5 kiminky said:

White supremacy is not a mental illness.

It’s definitely a choice, but I think the psychology of radicalization (and deradicalization) needs to be a part of the conversation that a functional nation would have.  

I think you are correct; however, lumping terrorist white supremacist mass shooters into the nental health category often gives the Right the out they are looking for instead of addressing gun reform and white supremacy.

[NewOrleans]

May 15, 2022 16:15:48 GMT -5 kiminky said:

May 15, 2022 16:11:44 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

It’s definitely a choice, but I think the psychology of radicalization (and deradicalization) needs to be a part of the conversation that a functional nation would have.  

I think you are correct; however, lumping terrorist white supremacist mass shooters into the nental health category often gives the Right the out they are looking for instead of addressing gun reform and white supremacy.

Absolutely concur.  A simple script to weaponize.  

[sillygoosegirl]

May 15, 2022 12:49:54 GMT -5 waverly said:

May 15, 2022 8:08:20 GMT -5 dulcemariamar said:

Did they say how he got the guns? Did they do a background check because he was reported because he threatened to shoot up his school.

I think if you end up selling the gun to these people or giving it to them and you fail to do a background check then you should be charged for the crime as well.

So I have some experience with this now. Due to mental illness of a family member it was decided he shouldn’t buy weapons. We told local police, the hospital (psych ward), FBI and state police. Law enforcement would NOT do anything about putting him on the registry to not buy guns. Apparent if we want that to happen we have to file in probate court out of pocket expense for us and for a lawyer and then the person has to be served and explained their rights and given a lawyer. Then appear in front of a judge.

So yeah the system is set up that it’s super easy for crazy people to buy guns and super difficult to prevent them. Family member has no history that would show up in a background check.

We did not pursue it in court because family member is now in assisted living and no access to their money.

No wonder this country is Fucked because guns are a constitutional right (have more rights than women btw).

Also the onus is all on the individual’s family to prevent and while we had the resources to file for psych hold and conservatorship many families would not know how to do that or have the resources to pay for an attorney. And the state does nothing.

Not to mention if you think your family member might be the next one of these monsters, pissing them off that much is probably something you'd be--rightly--kind of afraid to do.