The Millennial lifestyle is getting costlier

[goldengirlz]

Another article for the board:

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/06/uber-ride-share-prices-high-inflation/661250/

Tech companies can no longer afford to subsidize the Millennial lifestyle by operating at a loss.

[DesertMoon]

Cries in Canadian *

[NewOrleans]

lol at “they had to do a capitalism”

[Patsy Baloney]

So they’re just going to boom and bust cycle until they can exist no longer or become Amazon.

Too few people have too damned much money.

[Velar Fricative]

So these “disrupters” truly live up to their name. What a mess. And you can’t just undo any of this - people have now gotten used to the convenience of these services and items.

I really need to reconsider the cost of new, flashy convenience items and services. Because once I adopt them into my life, that’s it - if I love it, there’s no going back. Not to mention, given the worker situation in this country now and in the future (less immigration, @@lower birth rates, more education, etc.)…I think a lot about how right-sizing the economy will look in the coming years.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 13, 2022 16:40:54 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

So these “disrupters” truly live up to their name. What a mess. And you can’t just undo any of this - people have now gotten used to the convenience of these services and items.

I really need to reconsider the cost of new, flashy convenience items and services. Because once I adopt them into my life, that’s it - if I love it, there’s no going back. Not to mention, given the worker situation in this country now and in the future (less immigration, @@lower birth rates, more education, etc.)…I think a lot about how right-sizing the economy will look in the coming years.

Living in NY made me so spoiled because things like easily getting a cab or having food delivered were just part of daily life. It’s not surprising that a lot of these companies were started in California — not just because we have so many venture capital firms, but also because there was a tremendous need. Uber really was a game changer. Plus, it’s not like taking a regular cab is so cheap either (although they’ve definitely upped their game here and now have their own competing app!)

[karinothing]

I rode Lyft for the first time in 2 years the other day to go to dinner. My ride there and back cost more than my dinner with drinks! But I paid it because what else was I going to do? Ride metro? Ha ha (still would have needed a ride from the metro station).

[fancynewbeesly]

We used DoorDash ALOT up until recently. At first we noticed prices were the same on the app vs going in the store. Then we noticed that in addition to the fees, prices on the menu were a dollar or so more than the in store price. Now some things are upwards of five dollars more through DoorDash per item. Plus fees. Tips. Etc. We were curious. The other day we went to use DoorDash for Popeyes. It was about 25 dollars more to use DoorDash and that wasn’t including tip. We also live less than a mile from it so it was more being lazy and not wanting to pick it up. 🤣

But yeah we rarely use them anymore.

[gretchenindisguise]

Is there any lifestyle that isn't costlier right now?

[SusanBAnthony]

I'm a super old millennial (Oregon trail baby!!!!) And I freaking love Uber and Lyft.

Today my fam went out for lunch, carpooling, and my bro had a work meeting after. No stress because if lunch went long he could Uber as a backup. Midwest city where no one would call a cab for that but it gave us the flexibility to carpool. 10 carpools and maybe once you need to use the Uber backups, but it's freeing.

Really interesting article, thanks for posting.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 13, 2022 20:41:47 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

We used DoorDash ALOT up until recently. At first we noticed prices were the same on the app vs going in the store. Then we noticed that in addition to the fees, prices on the menu were a dollar or so more than the in store price. Now some things are upwards of five dollars more through DoorDash per item. Plus fees. Tips. Etc. We were curious. The other day we went to use DoorDash for Popeyes. It was about 25 dollars more to use DoorDash and that wasn’t including tip. We also live less than a mile from it so it was more being lazy and not wanting to pick it up. 🤣

But yeah we rarely use them anymore.

The delivery apps take a huge cut from restaurants. It’s not surprising that prices are higher.

[sent]

I feel more like Grandpa Simpson than a millennial when it comes to these things. I sparingly used Uber for a short period when I could not drive and have never used a delivery app of any kind. My husband uses both but when it comes to delivery, I've always offered to go pick it up or just scrounge up something to eat at home. I always like telling millennials that "back in my day, circa 2010, we had to negotiate with and then trust a random Jamaican with a Lexus for a ride off Queens Blvd. This was life before Uber existed. And we had to have cash on hand to pay him, oh the horror." These disruptors can take their apps and go home now. That is if they still have homes because many of those have been turned into an AirBnB by more disruptors.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 13, 2022 23:12:49 GMT -5 sent said:

I feel more like Grandpa Simpson than a millennial when it comes to these things. I sparingly used Uber for a short period when I could not drive and have never used a delivery app of any kind. My husband uses both but when it comes to delivery, I've always offered to go pick it up or just scrounge up something to eat at home. I always like telling millennials that "back in my day, circa 2010, we had to negotiate with and then trust a random Jamaican with a Lexus for a ride off Queens Blvd. This was life before Uber existed. And we had to have cash on hand to pay him, oh the horror." These disruptors can take their apps and go home now. That is if they still have homes because many of those have been turned into an AirBnB by more disruptors.

Ha, I know exactly what you’re talking about and I’m not sure that was better!

[wise_rita]

Jun 13, 2022 20:45:23 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Is there any lifestyle that isn't costlier right now?

I saw a pretty entertaining meme about the Amish clip clopping right past the gas station, but I bet even they are feeling the pinch.

[winecat]

Jun 13, 2022 20:41:47 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

We used DoorDash ALOT up until recently. At first we noticed prices were the same on the app vs going in the store. Then we noticed that in addition to the fees, prices on the menu were a dollar or so more than the in store price. Now some things are upwards of five dollars more through DoorDash per item. Plus fees. Tips. Etc. We were curious. The other day we went to use DoorDash for Popeyes. It was about 25 dollars more to use DoorDash and that wasn’t including tip. We also live less than a mile from it so it was more being lazy and not wanting to pick it up. 🤣

But yeah we rarely use them anymore.

I wonder if they're still taking 30% from the restaurants.  

[wawa]

I have always been deeply annoyed at the way we talk about these companies. As if they are geniuses who came up with something NOBODY ELSE COULD HAVE THOUGHT OF, rather than people who were just plowing more and more venture capital money into something that can't make money at the pricing they've set up. Like nobody ever thought about doing some of these things and then ran the numbers and was like, "oh shit, except it'd be so expensive I can't make money doing it" and didn't have access to boat loads of basically free money to throw into a black hole.

And I mean, I get that it's all a bet that if you wiggle into enough people's life as an affordable service that they'll keep paying for it when it costs more (fuck you netflix), but a $5 ride vs. a $50 ride are very different things.

AND the whole idea that disruption is a good thing, or at least a neutral thing...that's all well and good that uber and lyft came in and people used them and so forth, but they've been draining off choice riders from transit systems for a long time now, which makes it harder to make the case for funding for those systems. We've redesigned things in busy downtowns to make pickup and dropoff easier, and sunk public money into those projects. All for something that was never actually viable to stand alone. It angers me. (not as much as hyperloop. but same vein)

[sent]

wawa , I agree with everything you wrote.

I think the idea of some of these companies is really good. Like Uber did offer technology for a more organized way for the "Jamaican with a Lexus" to find me while I was stranded on Queens Blvd. trying to get to someone's house even further into Queens. It would have been highly unlikely to find a traditional NYC Taxi out there and the NYC MTA bus was going to cost me another 1 - 2 hours to get to my destination 20 minutes away by car. What I despise is why everything has to be designed to decimate the middle class. Uber did not put its drivers on a traditional W2 payroll. Instead they offered an "opportunity" to anyone who wanted to make some money to sign up as a driver on their app and get paid as a 1099 independent contractor. Yeah this is the disruption but is this good for our society? Are there "Thanks to Uber, my family now has a solid nice middle class life" stories? I remember there were multiple stories of suicides because of the havoc they wreaked while disrupting the NYC taxi cab medallion system that had been in place for decades. I've seen the "How to Get Rich through Air BnB" seminars and stories. I know there are forums on Reddit discussing how to smartly drive for the delivery apps or shop for Instacart so you don't end up only breaking even or losing money if you don't know the ins and outs of apps.

I know I am thinking of all of this in extremely simplistic terms. I don't understand the entire VC industry. I've just been irritated lately that there is so much emphasis in my circles on taking VC money to cash out before age 40 and rake in millions while screwing everyone else in your path. If Uber goes away or has to change how they charge the end user, who is going to lose actual real money? I doubt it's the people in California.

[carmenere]

Jun 13, 2022 23:12:49 GMT -5 sent said:

I feel more like Grandpa Simpson than a millennial when it comes to these things. I sparingly used Uber for a short period when I could not drive and have never used a delivery app of any kind. My husband uses both but when it comes to delivery, I've always offered to go pick it up or just scrounge up something to eat at home. I always like telling millennials that "back in my day, circa 2010, we had to negotiate with and then trust a random Jamaican with a Lexus for a ride off Queens Blvd. This was life before Uber existed. And we had to have cash on hand to pay him, oh the horror." These disruptors can take their apps and go home now. That is if they still have homes because many of those have been turned into an AirBnB by more disruptors.

Same here, I rarely use uber, never use delivery. I'm not shedding a tear over the "millennial lifestyle" because most people can (and did) live just fine without them. But these services are a lifeline for many people with disabilities. My grandma and aunt both have low vision in a place with no public transit, so they depend on Uber/Lyft to go anywhere and depend on delivery to get groceries or takeout. Now that rideshare is just as expensive as a cab, they are really struggling. 

[pixy0stix]

Huh. So am I supposed to feel sorry for these companies that killed restaurants (often adding them to their aps and not telling the restaurants and forcing them to cut their own profits), and made profits on the backs of their drivers by promising them a ton of money but in the end costing the drivers to participate in their businesses?

Am I supposed to feel bad that people are staring into the abyss of their own choices?

[wawa]

Jun 14, 2022 9:48:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Huh. So am I supposed to feel sorry for these companies that killed restaurants (often adding them to their aps and not telling the restaurants and forcing them to cut their own profits), and made profits on the backs of their drivers by promising them a ton of money but in the end costing the drivers to participate in their businesses?

Am I supposed to feel bad that people are staring into the abyss of their own choices?

LOLOL, nope.

for another example of "fuck your disruption"  I'd like us all to think about what happens now to municipalities that scrapped their paratransit service in favor of offering qualifying residents uber vouchers because in the short term it was cheaper than maintaining/buying vans or minibuses and paying and training drivers and offering them benefits.   YAY.

I have LONG felt like a lone holdout luddite for being crabby about shifting long term infrastructure investment decisions based on these companies. So...yeah.  I feel sorry for nobody except the folks who will be impacted by this shit who had no choice in the matter.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 14, 2022 10:00:36 GMT -5 wawa said:

Jun 14, 2022 9:48:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Huh. So am I supposed to feel sorry for these companies that killed restaurants (often adding them to their aps and not telling the restaurants and forcing them to cut their own profits), and made profits on the backs of their drivers by promising them a ton of money but in the end costing the drivers to participate in their businesses?

Am I supposed to feel bad that people are staring into the abyss of their own choices?

LOLOL, nope.

for another example of "fuck your disruption"  I'd like us all to think about what happens now to municipalities that scrapped their paratransit service in favor of offering qualifying residents uber vouchers because in the short term it was cheaper than maintaining/buying vans or minibuses and paying and training drivers and offering them benefits.   YAY.

I have LONG felt like a lone holdout luddite for being crabby about shifting long term infrastructure investment decisions based on these companies. So...yeah.  I feel sorry for nobody except the folks who will be impacted by this shit who had no choice in the matter.

Fucking exactly. So while I deeply feel bad for the people with disabilities who came to rely on these businesses, it is BECAUSE of these businesses that other more sustainable solutions weren't brought to the fore to help. In reality, these damn companies pushed us decades further from sustainable options because they were "cheap". Which arguably, in the cost of both the workers and the communities they infiltrated, were not cheap and caused harm. Now I'm all flail-y about this. 

[simpsongal]

I wonder if grocery delivery falls into the same class of services? Seems to be part of the 'race to the bottom' (or to stay competitive).

[msmerymac]

Jun 13, 2022 20:41:47 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

We used DoorDash ALOT up until recently. At first we noticed prices were the same on the app vs going in the store. Then we noticed that in addition to the fees, prices on the menu were a dollar or so more than the in store price. Now some things are upwards of five dollars more through DoorDash per item. Plus fees. Tips. Etc. We were curious. The other day we went to use DoorDash for Popeyes. It was about 25 dollars more to use DoorDash and that wasn’t including tip. We also live less than a mile from it so it was more being lazy and not wanting to pick it up. 🤣

But yeah we rarely use them anymore.

Same. Like a LOT a lot. Thankfully my desire to eat more home-prepared food coincided with this jump in prices. If I order lunch just for myself it's now upwards of $20+, which I can rarely justify. 

[msmerymac]

Jun 14, 2022 3:03:05 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Jun 13, 2022 20:45:23 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Is there any lifestyle that isn't costlier right now?

I saw a pretty entertaining meme about the Amish clip clopping right past the gas station, but I bet even they are feeling the pinch.

I'm sure horse feed has also increased in price. 

[fancynewbeesly]

Jun 14, 2022 10:10:05 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jun 13, 2022 20:41:47 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

We used DoorDash ALOT up until recently. At first we noticed prices were the same on the app vs going in the store. Then we noticed that in addition to the fees, prices on the menu were a dollar or so more than the in store price. Now some things are upwards of five dollars more through DoorDash per item. Plus fees. Tips. Etc. We were curious. The other day we went to use DoorDash for Popeyes. It was about 25 dollars more to use DoorDash and that wasn’t including tip. We also live less than a mile from it so it was more being lazy and not wanting to pick it up. 🤣

But yeah we rarely use them anymore.

Same. Like a LOT a lot. Thankfully my desire to eat more home-prepared food coincided with this jump in prices. If I order lunch just for myself it's now upwards of $20+, which I can rarely justify. 

In our area we don’t have other options besides pizza and Chinese for delivery. Unless you do DoorDash. With COVID and even before then it was just easier ordering delivery and eating in them going out. Now it is too expensive so we don’t go out out OR get delivery much (except pizza/Chinese on rare occasions).

It is fine because we are eating healthier but we were trying restaurants that we never ventured into. Or new about. Or different types of food/cuisine too.

[pinkdutchtulips]

@@

DoorDash is handy but it’s getting expensive. I rarely use it but dd used to use it frequently (2-3x week) until school got out the days I worked in the office.

We used UBER to get her home from school bc an UBER cost as much as after care at the teen center and this way she could be at home and I didn’t have to make some 6p pickup cutoff. (I’d track her on UBER from the start of her trip to the end) It quadrupled in price mid May and we instantly put and end to that. Thankfully I was able to patchwork rides for her the last 2 weeks of school (2-3x week again when I was working in my office).

[wise_rita]

Jun 14, 2022 12:25:24 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

DoorDash is handy but it’s getting expensive. I rarely use it but dd used to use it frequently (2-3x week) until school got out the days I worked in the office.

We used UBER to get her home from school bc an UBER cost as much as after care at the teen center and this way she could be at home and I didn’t have to make some 6p pickup cutoff. (I’d track her on UBER from the start of her trip to the end) It quadrupled in price mid May and we instantly put and end to that. Thankfully I was able to patchwork rides for her the last 2 weeks of school (2-3x week again when I was working in my office).

Holy crap, really?  The article isn't great at giving context about how cheap things were, how expensive they've become, etc.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jun 14, 2022 14:04:46 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Jun 14, 2022 12:25:24 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

DoorDash is handy but it’s getting expensive. I rarely use it but dd used to use it frequently (2-3x week) until school got out the days I worked in the office.

We used UBER to get her home from school bc an UBER cost as much as after care at the teen center and this way she could be at home and I didn’t have to make some 6p pickup cutoff. (I’d track her on UBER from the start of her trip to the end) It quadrupled in price mid May and we instantly put and end to that. Thankfully I was able to patchwork rides for her the last 2 weeks of school (2-3x week again when I was working in my office).

Holy crap, really?  The article isn't great at giving context about how cheap things were, how expensive they've become, etc.

A $13 ride from school to home JUMPED to $46 the middle of May.

[goldengirlz]

Jun 14, 2022 9:48:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Huh. So am I supposed to feel sorry for these companies that killed restaurants (often adding them to their aps and not telling the restaurants and forcing them to cut their own profits), and made profits on the backs of their drivers by promising them a ton of money but in the end costing the drivers to participate in their businesses?

Am I supposed to feel bad that people are staring into the abyss of their own choices?

No sympathy for the companies. They’ve been on borrowed time since the beginning.

For consumers? It depends. I mean, I’m not saying anyone in this situation deserves sympathy per se, but these apps did serve a need at the right moment. For example, the two times we ever used grocery delivery were when we were quarantined after a covid exposure (didn’t have any local friends/family we could ask to shop for us) and when I broke my hand and couldn’t drive. Oh, and I guess I used it once to send groceries to my mom from out of state when my dad was dying.

I see wawa’s point about how these services deterred investment in public transit. But that ignores that fact that there are places actively fighting that investment — take the Koch brothers pouring money into lobbying against things as simple as new bus routes.

www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/climate/koch-brothers-public-transit.html

So while all of that was happening in the background, it was easy for a 20-something in Nashville to spend a few bucks to get home after a night of drinking instead of having more drunk drivers on the road.

In short, for consumers, it’s a bit more complicated than whether someone made “bad choices.”

[msmerymac]

pinkdutchtulips, can you @ please?