FBI Raid at Mar-A-Lago

[sugarbear1]

Aug 9, 2022 16:42:25 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Aug 9, 2022 16:41:27 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Excellent!! I failed that class obvs.

Follow up - any crime? Or just this crime?

Any crime, I believe.
Edit -- I see this has been addressed. LOL. 
I teach civics to 8th graders and search and seizure is one of my favorite lessons. The questions and scenarios the kids come up with are amazing. It's the only time I don't limit the "what if" questions.

[spindle92]

Aug 9, 2022 18:36:24 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 9, 2022 18:20:04 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

It sounds like they took it from him at the airport.

Scott Perry's phone was taken from him?

Also general reminder to post links.

See I was reading it as they took Trump's phone and was confused.
This makes more sense.

[meli554]

Aug 9, 2022 19:02:00 GMT -5 sugarbear1 said:

Aug 9, 2022 16:42:25 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Follow up - any crime? Or just this crime?

Any crime, I believe.
Edit -- I see this has been addressed. LOL. 
I teach civics to 8th graders and search and seizure is one of my favorite lessons. The questions and scenarios the kids come up with are amazing. It's the only time I don't limit the "what if" questions.

😂 That’s awesome!

[rupertpenny]

Aug 9, 2022 17:59:51 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I’m so curious about boxes of documents. He doesn’t read so I imagine he mostly cares about his love letters from Kim and Putin. I assume he also has National secret documents that they are concerned he’ll just you know share with anyone at a dinner table when he needs something from them like dictators. What do you all think?

I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t anything particularly sensitive in the docs at all. The fact that they may have been classified isn’t what makes this a crime, it’s the fact that he stole property of the Federal Government. Presidents (along with other executive branch officials) do not own their official work documents and there are not really any exceptions.

And for all the people going on about Hillary’s private server (which I don’t condone!) this is different as she never deliberately stole records; she turned her emails over to NARA as required.

[carmenere]

Aug 9, 2022 18:53:05 GMT -5 al dente said:

Aug 9, 2022 17:59:51 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I’m so curious about boxes of documents. He doesn’t read so I imagine he mostly cares about his love letters from Kim and Putin. I assume he also has National secret documents that they are concerned he’ll just you know share with anyone at a dinner table when he needs something from them like dictators. What do you all think?

Honestly it makes me kind of sick to my stomach to think about. I have friends that work for the federal government and it's drilled into you that top secret classified documents can lead to deaths of Americans if leaked. And wasn't he in huge amounts of debt leaving the White House? I hope he didn't take top secret things to sell and endanger people's lives. The whole thing is so incredibly fucked up.

Knowing Trump I suspect he took things that were at embarrassing at best, incriminating at worst, that he didn’t want going to the archives, which is still illegal and highly problematic. I don’t know what to make of it. It seems likely the document thing was a pretext, but at the same time would election tampering or Jan 6 evidence be held at MAL?

[NewOrleans]

Aug 9, 2022 20:16:04 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Aug 9, 2022 18:53:05 GMT -5 al dente said:

Honestly it makes me kind of sick to my stomach to think about. I have friends that work for the federal government and it's drilled into you that top secret classified documents can lead to deaths of Americans if leaked. And wasn't he in huge amounts of debt leaving the White House? I hope he didn't take top secret things to sell and endanger people's lives. The whole thing is so incredibly fucked up.

Knowing Trump I suspect he took things that were at embarrassing at best, incriminating at worst, that he didn’t want going to the archives, which is still illegal and highly problematic. I don’t know what to make of it. It seems likely the document thing was a pretext, but at the same time would election tampering or Jan 6 evidence be held at MAL?

Wouldn’t it be peak Trump if it was just something really stupid and mundane that he thought glorified him?

[Captain Catnip]

I'm sorry about earlier! I went to get a link and got side tracked.

[mags]

Aug 9, 2022 18:56:54 GMT -5 af1212 said:

Aug 9, 2022 18:50:27 GMT -5 mags said:

Why would he still haven't anything he shouldn't in his home? He has had over a year to hide it somewhere else.
I mean i know he is stupid, but if you are hiding something wouldn't you actually hide it??

He prob just thinks he is so untouchable

I am hoping this is the case and he had tons of documents he should not have. Something to finally stick to him.

But, since he is supported by so many criminals I would think in   1.5 years they would have cleaned up the mess.

[curbsideprophet]

Aug 9, 2022 19:30:41 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Aug 9, 2022 17:59:51 GMT -5 cous0226 said:

I’m so curious about boxes of documents. He doesn’t read so I imagine he mostly cares about his love letters from Kim and Putin. I assume he also has National secret documents that they are concerned he’ll just you know share with anyone at a dinner table when he needs something from them like dictators. What do you all think?

I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t anything particularly sensitive in the docs at all. The fact that they may have been classified isn’t what makes this a crime, it’s the fact that he stole property of the Federal Government. Presidents (along with other executive branch officials) do not own their official work documents and there are not really any exceptions.

And for all the people going on about Hillary’s private server (which I don’t condone!) this is different as she never deliberately stole records; she turned her emails over to NARA as required.

Based on what was recovered earlier in the year, I think there is a good chance there is highly classified material involved.

From Feb.

Some records taken by Trump are so sensitive they may not be described in public

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/25/trump-oversight-records/

[DotAndBuzz]

Aug 9, 2022 20:26:45 GMT -5 mags said:

Aug 9, 2022 18:56:54 GMT -5 af1212 said:

He prob just thinks he is so untouchable

I am hoping this is the case and he had tons of documents he should not have. Something to finally stick to him.

But, since he is supported by so many criminals I would think in   1.5 years they would have cleaned up the mess.

I think that's our one saving grace. They're all shady as fuck, but they're all just...incompetent. They're SO arrogant, and used to bullshitting and buying/suing their way through life, that they've never had to *actually* work to do anything, much less cover their tracks. They didn't think they did anything wrong, and even if they did, they NEVER thought there would be any repercussions. Never have been, why would there be now?

Unfortunately people who ARE smart got to watch him as the warm up act, and took notes. 

[curbsideprophet]

Aug 9, 2022 20:18:50 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Aug 9, 2022 20:16:04 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Knowing Trump I suspect he took things that were at embarrassing at best, incriminating at worst, that he didn’t want going to the archives, which is still illegal and highly problematic. I don’t know what to make of it. It seems likely the document thing was a pretext, but at the same time would election tampering or Jan 6 evidence be held at MAL?

Wouldn’t it be peak Trump if it was just something really stupid and mundane that he thought glorified him?

Some speculation on Twitter is that he kept classified material that implicated him in other crimes. No idea if this true but I could definitely see him taking anything he thought might be incriminating.

[curbsideprophet]

WaPo link on Perry

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/rep-scott-perry-says-fbi-seized-his-phone-while-he-was-traveling/

Rep. Scott Perry says the FBI seized his phone while he was traveling

By Perry Stein
August 9, 2022 at 8:30 p.m. ET

Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) said three FBI agents approached him while he was traveling with his family Tuesday and seized his cellphone.
The congressman, a Trump ally who played a key role in promoting the former president’s claims of election fraud, did not say why federal agents took his phone but wrote in a statement that the contents of his phone are not the “government’s business.”

[konapoppy]

Aug 9, 2022 20:41:03 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

WaPo link on Perry

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/rep-scott-perry-says-fbi-seized-his-phone-while-he-was-traveling/

Rep. Scott Perry says the FBI seized his phone while he was traveling

By Perry Stein
August 9, 2022 at 8:30 p.m. ET

Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) said three FBI agents approached him while he was traveling with his family Tuesday and seized his cellphone.
The congressman, a Trump ally who played a key role in promoting the former president’s claims of election fraud, did not say why federal agents took his phone but wrote in a statement that the contents of his phone are not the “government’s business.”

Lol that he is literally the government 🤣

[neverfstop]

Too hysterical - top 10 things found in safe

www.instagram.com/reel/ChDZPaSjDfR/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[rupertpenny]

Aug 9, 2022 20:33:18 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

Aug 9, 2022 19:30:41 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t anything particularly sensitive in the docs at all. The fact that they may have been classified isn’t what makes this a crime, it’s the fact that he stole property of the Federal Government. Presidents (along with other executive branch officials) do not own their official work documents and there are not really any exceptions.

And for all the people going on about Hillary’s private server (which I don’t condone!) this is different as she never deliberately stole records; she turned her emails over to NARA as required.

Based on what was recovered earlier in the year, I think there is a good chance there is highly classified material involved.

From Feb.

Some records taken by Trump are so sensitive they may not be described in public

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/25/trump-oversight-records/

This is def possible! But not necessary to make this a serious crime.

[rikki]

Aug 9, 2022 18:15:00 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

The judge who signed the warrant was a Trump appointee 🤣🤣🤣

Actually, the judge who signed it is a magistrate judge. Magistrates are selected by the district court judges and are not appointed. But I love the idea of someone he appointed signing it, so I am going to just believe that instead.

[neverfstop]

It just keeps getting more and more strange...
They were hiding boxes in a basement with a lock.
I didn't think houses in Florida even had basements.



Christina Bobb, a lawyer for Trump, said his lawyers engaged in discussions with the Justice Department this spring over materials held at Mar-a-Lago. At that time, the former president’s legal team searched through two to three dozen boxes in a storage area, hunting for documents that could be considered presidential records, and turned over several items that might meet the definition, she said.

In June, Bobb said, she and Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran met with Jay Bratt, the chief of the counterintelligence and export control section at the Justice Department, along with several investigators. Trump stopped by the meeting as it began, to greet the investigators, but was not interviewed. The lawyers showed the federal officials the boxes, and Bratt and the others spent some time looking through the material.

Bobb said the Justice Department officials commented that they did not believe the storage unit was properly secured, so Trump officials added a lock to the facility. When FBI agents searched the property Monday, Bobb added, they broke through the lock that had been added to the door.

The FBI removed about a dozen boxes that had been stored in the basement storage area, she said.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/trump-fbi-search-mar-a-lago/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top

[neverfstop]

Also, Trump is *SUPPOSED* to testify today in NYT....TBD if he shows up. I wonder if we will get any real-time info on that???

(Axios)

The New York civil investigation, led by Attorney General Letitia James (D), involves allegations that Trump's company, the Trump Organization, misstated the value of prized assets like golf courses and skyscrapers, misleading lenders and tax authorities.

Trump wrote on Truth Social that he is seeing James "for a continuation of the greatest Witch Hunt in U.S. history! ... My great company, and myself, are being attacked from all sides ... Banana Republic!"

[neverfstop]

apnews.com/article/donald-trump-ny-investigation-testimony-a4e6264d44b194d24dfb916ffc7f51ca?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top

Two of Trump’s adult children, Donald Jr. and Ivanka, testified in the investigation in recent days, two people familiar with the matter said. The people were not authorized to speak publicly and did so on condition of anonymity.
---------
Last summer, spurred by evidence uncovered by James’ office, Manhattan prosecutors filed charges against Weisselberg and the Trump Organization. Prosecutors said Weisselberg collected more than $1.7 million in off-the-books compensation.

Weisselberg and the company have pleaded not guilty.

Weisselberg and Eric Trump each invoked the Fifth Amendment more than 500 times when questioned by James’ lawyers during separate depositions in 2020, according to court papers.

The former president could choose to do the same, but it’s likely “he’ll claim lack of knowledge on many questions,” New York University law professor Stephen Gillers said.

[carmenere]

Aug 10, 2022 6:05:57 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

It just keeps getting more and more strange...
They were hiding boxes in a basement with a lock.
I didn't think houses in Florida even had basements.



Christina Bobb, a lawyer for Trump, said his lawyers engaged in discussions with the Justice Department this spring over materials held at Mar-a-Lago. At that time, the former president’s legal team searched through two to three dozen boxes in a storage area, hunting for documents that could be considered presidential records, and turned over several items that might meet the definition, she said.

In June, Bobb said, she and Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran met with Jay Bratt, the chief of the counterintelligence and export control section at the Justice Department, along with several investigators. Trump stopped by the meeting as it began, to greet the investigators, but was not interviewed. The lawyers showed the federal officials the boxes, and Bratt and the others spent some time looking through the material.

Bobb said the Justice Department officials commented that they did not believe the storage unit was properly secured, so Trump officials added a lock to the facility. When FBI agents searched the property Monday, Bobb added, they broke through the lock that had been added to the door.

The FBI removed about a dozen boxes that had been stored in the basement storage area, she said.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/trump-fbi-search-mar-a-lago/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top

So Trump’s legal team *who likely have no security clearance* went digging through records to determine what was presidential or classified? Oof.

[fortnightlily]

Thought this little tidbit from www.politico.com/news/2022/08/09/why-the-trump-search-warrant-is-nothing-like-hillarys-emails-00050691 was noteworthy:

"Notably, Trump — after a fierce campaign against Clinton in which he called for her to be jailed for her handling of classified material — signed a law in 2018 that stiffened the penalty for the unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents from one year to five years, turning it into a felony offense.

That was the same statute that just three years earlier Petraeus pleaded guilty to in order to avoid a felony conviction."

[msmerymac]

Aug 9, 2022 20:16:04 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Aug 9, 2022 18:53:05 GMT -5 al dente said:

Honestly it makes me kind of sick to my stomach to think about. I have friends that work for the federal government and it's drilled into you that top secret classified documents can lead to deaths of Americans if leaked. And wasn't he in huge amounts of debt leaving the White House? I hope he didn't take top secret things to sell and endanger people's lives. The whole thing is so incredibly fucked up.

Knowing Trump I suspect he took things that were at embarrassing at best, incriminating at worst, that he didn’t want going to the archives, which is still illegal and highly problematic. I don’t know what to make of it. It seems likely the document thing was a pretext, but at the same time would election tampering or Jan 6 evidence be held at MAL?

But why does he still have them? Why not flush or burn them like he did the others?

[underwaterrhymes]

Aug 10, 2022 9:46:51 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Aug 9, 2022 20:16:04 GMT -5 carmenere said:

Knowing Trump I suspect he took things that were at embarrassing at best, incriminating at worst, that he didn’t want going to the archives, which is still illegal and highly problematic. I don’t know what to make of it. It seems likely the document thing was a pretext, but at the same time would election tampering or Jan 6 evidence be held at MAL?

But why does he still have them? Why not flush or burn them like he did the others?

The theory (and I stress that it’s a theory) is that he’s selling information and that he’s engaged in espionage.

[susiebw]

Just the fact that he made such an issue of "her emails, though" makes me absolutely giddy at the prospect that mishandling of government documents could be what finally takes him down.

[dutchgirl678]

T* claims he thinks the FBI may have "planted evidence" at MAL. I've seen lots of speculation on Twitter that he has seen the list of items they took and he knows he is in trouble so he accuses them of planting evidence.

[fortnightlily]

And apparently TFG has decided to invoke the Fifth Amendment in his appearance before the NY AG's office today.

[prettyinpearls]

Aug 10, 2022 10:06:06 GMT -5 susiebw said:

Just the fact that he made such an issue of "her emails, though" makes me absolutely giddy at the prospect that mishandling of government documents could be what finally takes him down.

 Same.  And throw in the fact if he's convicted (which we all know is a BIG if), the charges will be a felony because of a law he signed into place. Even better! 

[DotAndBuzz]

Aug 10, 2022 10:03:58 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Aug 10, 2022 9:46:51 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

But why does he still have them? Why not flush or burn them like he did the others?

The theory (and I stress that it’s a theory) is that he’s selling information and that he’s engaged in espionage.

Yeah, it makes sense that he kept them, instead of destroyed them, is because he *needs* them for some reason. They are still useful to him, in some capacity.

He always viewed the presidency as a way to make money, and advance his business dealings. I’d bet he took them for business leverage of some sort.

[pixy0stix]

So, if I'm reading the WaPo article correctly, the records people finally got fed up and said, "Goddammit motherfuckers, we know you have this shit hidden somewhere," and called in the big guns to get it.

[dutchgirl678]

Aug 10, 2022 10:10:38 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

And apparently TFG has decided to invoke the Fifth Amendment in his appearance before the NY AG's office today.

He claims he pleaded the fifth. But as he himself has said in the past:

“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” he said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”