@@ Sen Lindsey Graham Proposes 15 week national abortion ban

[neverfstop]

This seems to be getting a lot of news for a few reasons....Dems are excited, other Republicans are running from it. He's saying it's "late term" which, is NOT 15 weeks....

Says he would put it up for a vote if GOP wins House/Senate, 15 week ban with exceptions for rape and health (life?) of mother...
First GOP was like "let the states decide" and now is introducing something nationally...

www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2022/09/14/did-lindsey-graham-just-score-an-own-goal-on-abortion-00056587 

Sen. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-S.C.) tossed all that out the window Tuesday, dropping a bill that would implement a nationwide ban on abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy while allowing states to pass more restrictive laws. The immediate effect was to put fellow Republicans, who had already been on their heels over Roe’s reversal, straight onto their butts.

At a Capitol Hill news conference Tuesday, Graham promoted his bill as good policy and good politics, noting that it would align U.S. abortion law with the rest of the industrialized world while giving GOP officeholders and candidates a proposal to rally around.

Instead, the opposite happened. The GOP scattered in response, while Democrats all over the country began salivating. One told Playbook last night: “Graham’s stunt is a godsend and helps us remind voters Republicans want to ban abortion everywhere.”

Graham’s legislation surprised top Republican operatives, the pair write, who “likened [the bill] to a slow, telegraphed pitch down the middle of the plate. Several confessed to first learning about the legislation Monday evening through SEAN HANNITY’s Fox News program, where the latest iteration was initially teased.”



It was hard to find Republican officials and operatives who would defend the proposal. NBC’s Jonathan Allen, Marc Caputo and Scott Wong write that Republicans across the country dismissed Graham’s bill as “a distraction that divides the GOP and reminds voters that most of them see the party as too extreme on abortion.”

[ECB]

"First GOP was like "let the states decide" and now is introducing something nationally..." Why anyone believes anything the Republicans say is beyond me.

Which brings me to being VERY skeptical of the R's who are "finding it hard" to defend the proposal. Once they get control? I feel like all bets are off.

The GOP has proven themselves over and over and over to be hypocritical assholes.

[Susie]

Sept 14, 2022 10:57:49 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

At a Capitol Hill news conference Tuesday, Graham promoted his bill as good policy and good politics, noting that it would align U.S. abortion law with the rest of the industrialized world 

That's an interesting take on "the rest of the industrialized world."  What a self-serving, hypocritical asshole he is.


www.cfr.org/article/abortion-law-global-comparisons

[TR]

Sept 14, 2022 11:15:14 GMT -5 Susie said:

Sept 14, 2022 10:57:49 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

At a Capitol Hill news conference Tuesday, Graham promoted his bill as good policy and good politics, noting that it would align U.S. abortion law with the rest of the industrialized world 

That's an interesting take on "the rest of the industrialized world."  What a self-serving, hypocritical asshole he is.


www.cfr.org/article/abortion-law-global-comparisons

Not to be a pain in the ass, but wouldn't this ban (ignoring state laws, but by itself) fall under the top one? On request, but with a gestational limit? It would be interesting to see what the gestational limits of those other dark teal countries are if we're comparing.

[Susie]

TR, that's fair. OTOH, some of the lighter green ones may allow under social/economic grounds beyond 15w. It does not map exactly.

[carmenere]

Sept 14, 2022 11:03:26 GMT -5 ECB said:

"First GOP was like "let the states decide" and now is introducing something nationally..." Why anyone believes anything the Republicans say is beyond me.

Which brings me to being VERY skeptical of the R's who are "finding it hard" to defend the proposal. Once they get control? I feel like all bets are off.

The GOP has proven themselves over and over and over to be hypocritical assholes.

I think the GOP is finding that abortion bans are less popular with voters now that they are actually being implemented than when they were just grandstanding that was blocked from taking effect. I know they'll still try but I think it's changing the political calculus for some. 

neverfstop "let the states decide" is code for "let the old men in the state legislatures decide." Once Kansas had the audacity to let voters decide, they had to come up with another plan.

[pixy0stix]

Let's obliterate these fuckers during the mid-terms. I hope this lights a fire under people.

[noodleoo]

I'm genuinely surprised Graham did this now, right before the midterms, after what happened in Kansas. It seems like this might actually help the Dems.

There's a part of me that still thinks a national ban could never happen. But it is terrifying since I also thought Trump being elected would never happen. And I'm sure lots thought Roe v. Wade being struck down would never happen. I feel like I don't recognize the world I live in anymore.

[redheadbaker]

Sept 14, 2022 11:21:22 GMT -5 TR said:

Sept 14, 2022 11:15:14 GMT -5 Susie said:

That's an interesting take on "the rest of the industrialized world."  What a self-serving, hypocritical asshole he is.


www.cfr.org/article/abortion-law-global-comparisons

Not to be a pain in the ass, but wouldn't this ban (ignoring state laws, but by itself) fall under the top one? On request, but with a gestational limit? It would be interesting to see what the gestational limits of those other dark teal countries are if we're comparing.

Canada's gestational limits vary between 12 weeks and 23 weeks 6 days - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada#Accessibility_by_province_and_territory

Australia's limits vary from 16 weeks to no gestational limits - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Australia#Summary_of_state_laws

France - 14 weeks

Germany - abortion is illegal, but not punishable during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy under the condition of mandatory counseling, and it is permitted later in pregnancy in cases that the pregnancy poses an important danger to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman.

Argentina - 14 weeks

South Africa - 12 weeks

Turkey - 10 weeks

Vietnam - abortion services are made accessible at three administrative levels of the health system: (1) abortion from 6 to 18 weeks from the last menstrual period (LMP) is available at central and provincial hospitals; (2) abortion from 6 to 12 weeks of LMP is also available at district health stations; and (3) communal health clinics may only offer abortion to women who are not more than six weeks pregnant.

[TR]

redheadbaker, thank you!! I felt like many countries actually had more restrictions than we did (pre-this latest fuckery), but that doesn't mean we need to follow suit.

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 14, 2022 12:13:43 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I'm genuinely surprised Graham did this now, right before the midterms, after what happened in Kansas. It seems like this might actually help the Dems.

There's a part of me that still thinks a national ban could never happen. But it is terrifying since I also thought Trump being elected would never happen. And I'm sure lots thought Roe v. Wade being struck down would never happen. I feel like I don't recognize the world I live in anymore.

I suspect he did this (with Mitch's blessing) because they see the polls about how this has riled people up people who are mad about the SCOTUS decision. They're doing this to rile up their own base to vote in November by implying that the abortion fight is not over yet just because SCOTUS made the decision they favored; there is still more work to do to ban abortion nationwide. They've moved the goalposts to keep this a wedge issue that they need to maintain if not boost turnout, IMO.  

[lac]

Sept 14, 2022 12:13:43 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I'm genuinely surprised Graham did this now, right before the midterms, after what happened in Kansas. It seems like this might actually help the Dems.

There's a part of me that still thinks a national ban could never happen. But it is terrifying since I also thought Trump being elected would never happen. And I'm sure lots thought Roe v. Wade being struck down would never happen. I feel like I don't recognize the world I live in anymore.

This. But I remember a very specific meal in April 2016 I had with my father where he told me “even Ted Cruz supports leaving abortion rights to the states!” It feels like this has been the goal all along.

[kadams767]

There is something on CNN now that says McConnell has shot down the bill. I know that means nothing at all, but I hope these fuckers are all in chaos.

[neverfstop]

So this 15 week ban would be in line with France/Germany IF AND ONLY IF all the other restrictions before 15 week were removed (at the state levels?)
And we covered the costs and treated it as a medical procedure?

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 14, 2022 12:52:32 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

There is something on CNN now that says McConnell has shot down the bill. I know that means nothing at all, but I hope these fuckers are all in chaos.

Damn, I'm surprised. I just figured he gave Graham his blessing but wanted to stay away from it publicly otherwise.

ETA: I still think that even if the GOP gains control of both the House and the Senate, what McConnell is saying now doesn't matter. The party will be gunning for the nationwide ban if they gain control.

[sequins]

Sept 14, 2022 12:22:27 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:13:43 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I'm genuinely surprised Graham did this now, right before the midterms, after what happened in Kansas. It seems like this might actually help the Dems.

There's a part of me that still thinks a national ban could never happen. But it is terrifying since I also thought Trump being elected would never happen. And I'm sure lots thought Roe v. Wade being struck down would never happen. I feel like I don't recognize the world I live in anymore.

I suspect he did this (with Mitch's blessing) because they see the polls about how this has riled people up. They're doing this to rile up their own base to vote in November by implying that the abortion fight is not over yet just because SCOTUS made the decision they favored; there is still more work to do to ban abortion nationwide. They've moved the goalposts to keep this a wedge issue that they need to maintain if not boost turnout, IMO.  

I suspect they did this to distract from the NUMEROUS ongoing investigations. I feel like GOP keeps "national abortion ban" in the back pocket for when things get really really bad. But I'm an optimistic person.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 14, 2022 12:57:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:52:32 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

There is something on CNN now that says McConnell has shot down the bill. I know that means nothing at all, but I hope these fuckers are all in chaos.

Damn, I'm surprised. I just figured he gave Graham his blessing but wanted to stay away from it publicly otherwise.

The old turtle knows this is politically not what they need right now. He's a bastard, and he knows exactly how fine the line is that they're walking with this.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 14, 2022 12:58:28 GMT -5 sequins said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:22:27 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I suspect he did this (with Mitch's blessing) because they see the polls about how this has riled people up. They're doing this to rile up their own base to vote in November by implying that the abortion fight is not over yet just because SCOTUS made the decision they favored; there is still more work to do to ban abortion nationwide. They've moved the goalposts to keep this a wedge issue that they need to maintain if not boost turnout, IMO.  

I suspect they did this to distract from the NUMEROUS ongoing investigations. I feel like GOP keeps "national abortion ban" in the back pocket for when things get really really bad. But I'm an optimistic person.

Yeah, he proposed it late yesterday, which made me wonder if something big was coming out in the news today.

[Patsy Baloney]

I do not understand the optics these zealots are going for here.

You got your asses handed to you in Kansas.

Michigan is teeing up another rout.

No one likes your forced-birth agenda. What the fuck are you doing?

I hope this is the misstep that rockets these motherfuckers into oblivion.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 14, 2022 12:22:27 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:13:43 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I'm genuinely surprised Graham did this now, right before the midterms, after what happened in Kansas. It seems like this might actually help the Dems.

There's a part of me that still thinks a national ban could never happen. But it is terrifying since I also thought Trump being elected would never happen. And I'm sure lots thought Roe v. Wade being struck down would never happen. I feel like I don't recognize the world I live in anymore.

I suspect he did this (with Mitch's blessing) because they see the polls about how this has riled people up people who are mad about the SCOTUS decision. They're doing this to rile up their own base to vote in November by implying that the abortion fight is not over yet just because SCOTUS made the decision they favored; there is still more work to do to ban abortion nationwide. They've moved the goalposts to keep this a wedge issue that they need to maintain if not boost turnout, IMO.  

I thought about that and I think that's a definite possibility but I also think it's possible this is an attempt to be like "see, we're much more reasonable than those states passing total bans!"

Anyway, whatever their reason, I think it's going to backfire.

[kadams767]

Sept 14, 2022 12:57:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:52:32 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

There is something on CNN now that says McConnell has shot down the bill. I know that means nothing at all, but I hope these fuckers are all in chaos.

Damn, I'm surprised. I just figured he gave Graham his blessing but wanted to stay away from it publicly otherwise.

ETA: I still think that even if the GOP gains control of both the House and the Senate, what McConnell is saying now doesn't matter. The party will be gunning for the nationwide ban if they gain control.

No, I agree with your edit 100%.  I am just hoping this keeps Dems motivated come November, so that it is a moot point whether McConnell will backtrack or not.  

[redheadbaker]

Sept 14, 2022 13:40:58 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Sept 14, 2022 12:22:27 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I suspect he did this (with Mitch's blessing) because they see the polls about how this has riled people up people who are mad about the SCOTUS decision. They're doing this to rile up their own base to vote in November by implying that the abortion fight is not over yet just because SCOTUS made the decision they favored; there is still more work to do to ban abortion nationwide. They've moved the goalposts to keep this a wedge issue that they need to maintain if not boost turnout, IMO.  

I thought about that and I think that's a definite possibility but I also think it's possible this is an attempt to be like "see, we're much more reasonable than those states passing total bans!"

Anyway, whatever their reason, I think it's going to backfire.

[Deleted]

[lea]

93% of abortions happen before 13 weeks. The Evangelical base absolutely believes in zero abortions. The Dems messaging needs to drive home that Lindsay’s bill would still allow 93% of abortions to happen.

[neverfstop]

Sept 16, 2022 4:30:45 GMT -5 lea said:

93% of abortions happen before 13 weeks. The Evangelical base absolutely believes in zero abortions. The Dems messaging needs to drive home that Lindsay’s bill would still allow 93% of abortions to happen.

I don't think that's true. It would be a federal maximum and states could still have a total ban. It's not a national guarantee of 15 weeks in all states. I think the polling and stats around 15 weeks is the basis, but it should be a federal guarantee up to, not a national ceiling.

[NewOrleans]

Sept 16, 2022 4:30:45 GMT -5 lea said:

93% of abortions happen before 13 weeks. The Evangelical base absolutely believes in zero abortions. The Dems messaging needs to drive home that Lindsay’s bill would still allow 93% of abortions to happen.

Dems should not ever say this message. 

[lea]

Sept 16, 2022 5:55:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Sept 16, 2022 4:30:45 GMT -5 lea said:

93% of abortions happen before 13 weeks. The Evangelical base absolutely believes in zero abortions. The Dems messaging needs to drive home that Lindsay’s bill would still allow 93% of abortions to happen.

Dems should not ever say this message. 

Ok I get that. You’re right, it’s terrible messaging. I was looking at the pro-life organizations that are saying they are willing to accept the “compromise” of a 15 week ban because it’s more acceptable for them politically and would give them leverage so they can regain power and then go more drastic when they have a majority. My perspective is skewed having come out of an Evangelical church where it would be unacceptable for a Republican to support any abortions.

[wanderingback]

Sept 16, 2022 4:30:45 GMT -5 lea said:

93% of abortions happen before 13 weeks. The Evangelical base absolutely believes in zero abortions. The Dems messaging needs to drive home that Lindsay’s bill would still allow 93% of abortions to happen.

That’s horrible messaging.
Every time we put restrictions and exceptions on abortion it favors antis and increases stigma. Dems have had horrible messaging on abortion and we shouldn’t be ok with that just because their democrats.

In addition, that is an old statistic and with more states banning abortion more and more people are having abortions later in pregnancy because if they can’t or don’t want to access the pills at home they’re traveling and that takes time and money.

[lilac05]

Sept 16, 2022 6:23:02 GMT -5 lea said:

Sept 16, 2022 5:55:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dems should not ever say this message. 

Ok I get that. You’re right, it’s terrible messaging. I was looking at the pro-life organizations that are saying they are willing to accept the “compromise” of a 15 week ban because it’s more acceptable for them politically and would give them leverage so they can regain power and then go more drastic when they have a majority. My perspective is skewed having come out of an Evangelical church where it would be unacceptable for a Republican to support any abortions.

I agree it’s a poor messaging strategy for the Democrats to make. However, I do understand where you’re coming from. I think those of us who were raised in these communities and expected to be strongly anti-abortion can come at things at a different angle when in 1:1 conversations. This still isn’t the approach I would personally take, but my conversations are different on an individual level than what would be best at a party level.

Currently, my response in conversations is to point out the hypocrisy. 6 months ago, the push was for this to be up to the states. What happened to that?? If you supported the SC decision because it should be up to the states, then you should not have the one ounce of support for this attempt at a national level. The SC made their decision because they felt the fed govt overstepped with Roe. If you agree that was true, then passing what Graham is proposing is absolutely overstepping as well.

[NewOrleans]

Sept 16, 2022 6:23:02 GMT -5 lea said:

Sept 16, 2022 5:55:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dems should not ever say this message. 

Ok I get that. You’re right, it’s terrible messaging. I was looking at the pro-life organizations that are saying they are willing to accept the “compromise” of a 15 week ban because it’s more acceptable for them politically and would give them leverage so they can regain power and then go more drastic when they have a majority. My perspective is skewed having come out of an Evangelical church where it would be unacceptable for a Republican to support any abortions.

Then that should be Republican messaging, not Democratic.