I’m so sorry. I think I would address it all at a later time when the two of you can really talk without interruption (I know, easier said than done) and see what his attitude was like after letting things simmer.
I would want the gaslighting, the lack of help, and obviously the physical altercation all addressed. If any of those didn’t come with him acknowledging his role and an honest discussion about ways to improve this situation, I’d be looking for the door because this is no way to live.
I'm so sorry this happened. Everything up until when he pushed/punched your arm sounded like "normal" issues to have when your kids are little - stuff you can work through together.
The physical escalation is a big hell no from me. At the very least you both need outside help from a counselor to fix communication and he needs to address his reaction.
That is a lot and the escalation I'm sure didn't help.
I know you have young kids, but that's no excuse for a partnership within a marriage. I think counseling for both of you and maybe individual for you would be beneficial.
Just because he works and you stay home doesn't absolve him of basic household tasks.
I'm so sorry this happened. Everything up until when he pushed/punched your arm sounded like "normal" issues to have when your kids are little - stuff you can work through together.
The physical escalation is a big hell no from me. At the very least you both need outside help from a counselor to fix communication and he needs to address his reaction.
I would also consider counselling on your own to have a safe space to talk about this stuff.
I can relate to the lack of help on nights you go out. We’ve had that issue where I come home and the kitchen is a mess, bags haven’t been unpacked and lunches not made. But then my H is all cocky that he handled the kids while I went out. And I’m all, sure, but I came home to a mess I had to manage at 10:00 which kind of erases all the good you did. LOL
Anyway—we talked later when it’s quiet and the kids were gone and now it’s better so that’s my recommendation there.
But the hitting—that’s not ok and we’d be seriously taking about that. What if next time it’s harder or something?
I’m so terribly sorry. I don’t have any advice because I’ve been through one of my “never tolerate” rules and stayed. But please know that just because you stay at home and he works doesn’t mean you are his maid. It also doesn’t mean he wont be financially responsible for you and the kids should you decide to leave.
I’d definitely seek a counselor for yourself. Maybe couples too if you’re so inclined. If your in Missouri or Texas, I have a fabulous recommendation (though can’t promise she’s taking on new clients).
We can be your sounding board too, but it won’t replace a one on one therapist.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I definitely think you need counseling to hash out your relationship and roles with one another as there appears to be resentment building. I will say, and this is due to my own bias but you do also need to take ownership for choosing to fight about this when you’ve been drinking. That does NOT excuse what he did.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I definitely think you need counseling to hash out your relationship and roles with one another as there appears to be resentment building. I will say, and this is due to my own bias but you do also need to take ownership for choosing to fight about this when you’ve been drinking. That does NOT excuse what he did.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I definitely think you need counseling to hash out your relationship and roles with one another as there appears to be resentment building. I will say, and this is due to my own bias but you do also need to take ownership for choosing to fight about this when you’ve been drinking. That does NOT excuse what he did.
What? It doesn't sound like this is problematic drinking - she came home to a mess and was upset. It's ok to speak up when someone does something that upsets you. Obviously in a marriage there is also a need to not pick a fight every time someone annoys you, but this sounds like a pattern and maybe the alcohol gave her the courage to actually say something.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I definitely think you need counseling to hash out your relationship and roles with one another as there appears to be resentment building. I will say, and this is due to my own bias but you do also need to take ownership for choosing to fight about this when you’ve been drinking. That does NOT excuse what he did.
wendyp, I think you know that what happened was not ok; you do not deserve to be treated that way. It sounds like you are pretty miserable honestly. Can you find time to speak to a therapist?
In the immediate future I would talk to H. Tell him how he behaved is NOT ok, how it made you feel and why you were so upset with his behavior (all of it, not just him physically hitting you, though that is extremely alarming.)
I can relate to a lot of this but the hitting and gaslighting and that he doesn't even seem to feel bad about it? That's scary. I'm sorry this happened, I would be worried this will happen again.
Would he agree to therapy? Either couples or individual?
ETA and also fuuuuck that comment about choosing to argue about this when you've been drinking. WTF I've had this exact same argument like 6 times with zero drinking involved and my husband never hit me. Her drinking had nothing to do with this.
I'm sorry. I totally get that. It really sucks to feel like you can't take one night off. I hope once you're out of the moment you are able to sit down and talk it through. My H has gotten better about it, but I still sometimes need to remind him "Hey--I know you're taking care of everything tonight and I appreciate that, but taking care of everything also includes packing the kids bags up and wiping down the kitchen".
I'm not even going to get into the hitting except to say it's totally unacceptable and we'd be having words about that.
I knew I’d get blasted for saying that, but I did also say it was due to my own bias. I had a roommate who used to get drunk and then get into epic fights with her significant other. I did say that it was NOT ok for him to hit her but in my opinion you should have these conversations when in a clear mindset. There is definitely a lot going on here and they need outside help.
ETA-Wendy, with your update I definitely think you should talk to your H about going to therapy. You should be able to tell him how you feel and he should listen and not just dismiss it as not his job. That’s misogynistic to think he shouldn’t be able to do what needs to be done. I am very sorry this happened to you. You deserve to have someone do the extras for you too.
wendyp , you do not need to defend yourself. I'm so sorry he did that to you. It is not ok, regardless of circumstance. Do not let him gaslight you - you know what happened and he can't rewrite history. I would try to have a conversation with him and bring up therapy. If he won't go with you, I'd still encourage you to go on your own. It seems like you have a full plate, but you can do therapy via zoom these days.
I can relate to a lot of this but the hitting and gaslighting and that he doesn't even seem to feel bad about it? That's scary. I'm sorry this happened, I would be worried this will happen again.
Would he agree to therapy? Either couples or individual?
ETA and also fuuuuck that comment about choosing to argue about this when you've been drinking. WTF I've had this exact same argument like 6 times with zero drinking involved and my husband never hit me. Her drinking had nothing to do with this.
Yeah we have this argument often with no drinking and with lots of yelling and crying on my part and he's never hit me before. I was honestly shocked.
I'm not sure what he's thinking right now and if I could even get him to go to counseling. I'm not great at talking about things. He also views things very differently than I do. I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on the household tasks, he thinks he does a lot and I think he does very little and basically it turns into a nitpick of each other. He is the most hardworking person I've ever met but his priorities are just so different from mine and I don't think anything will change that. He's basically the meme of the dad leaf blowing the attic right before we leave for a trip.
Any suggestions on where to find a good therapist? I have seen a few people on my own and it's always been so awkward and honestly not all that helpful.
Honestly if he denies he did that and doesn't even act like he did anything wrong, that is concerning to me even more than just the hit. It shows he doesn't think he did anything wrong and IME it is likely to happen again. You did not deserve to be treated like that, no matter what you "did" to provoke him.
I know it's not simple to just leave. I put up with this exact kind of behavior with my XH for way too long. He never actually hurt me beyond a couple of minor bruises, so it was easy to brush off as "it's not really abuse". But it was. I think there needs to be some real therapy here or it will likely happen again. And even with therapy it might. I am glad it sounds like you've been together quite a while and this was the first time... Perhaps that means it's not his nature and he can do the work to ensure it doesn't happen again. But the first step for him would be admitting it happened at all!
Your husband is a dick. If he doesn't want to change then you need to leave because you deserve a better partner than this. You can go to therapy all day long and work on yourself but without your husband coming around and understanding your needs and what he needs to do, the situation won't change.
Finding a therapist is like dating. You go on a "date" or a few "dates" to get the feel of the therapist and then if you don't jive you move on to the next one. Some people specialize in certain fields like family or women's issues.
Here’s the thing. This guy has shown you who he is — you have to believe it. He is never, ever going to help around the house in a way that is meaningful to you. He is going to hold it against you when you get rare personal time. He is willing to be physical in an argument. AND, here is the kicker, he is willing to lie to both you and himself and say he didn’t get physical.
Knowing all this, I would get a long term plan where I assumed there was at least an 80% chance I was getting divorced. Sure, I would do short term stuff like individual counseling. But really, you need to start being a very, very strategic thinker. Because I am pretty sure your husband has his eye on the ball with his own long term strategy — to isolate you, make you financially dependent and gaslight you until you no longer believe yourself.
I don’t want to quote everything and the quote is too messy for me to mess with but you said this, “if I could even get him to go to counseling.”
I think that frame of mind should really be reconsidered. This shouldn’t be a chore that you give him and he goes a few times to mark as completed but rather a “I’m not happy, do you care to change that?” and see what he comes up with.
IMO he should hear that you’re unhappy and want to help alleviate some of that, which might include him going to therapy. I feel like if he doesn’t care enough about you to change that, then you have your answer.
If I could give one small piece of advice, I would write everything down. Everything that you remember. Today. Not to "keep score" but because, as time goes on, memories can fade. If he's trying to gaslight you now, he will keep doing it, trying to chip away at that memory. Document it. If there is any bruising or discoloration, photograph it. And after you have a discussion with him, you can figure out your next steps.
Post by newnamesameperson on Feb 14, 2023 10:19:14 GMT -5
I'm going to tread lightly here. I do realize when people share their concerns about their significant others and people start saying this person is horrible and you need to leave...it's not well that easy. It often results in the OP then not feeling they have a safe place to share. I hope you continue to share your concerns and take a moment to take in the responses. You don't have to take any steps now, but just take it in.
I would mainly start working on getting yourself in therapy. I think it would be beneficial for a counselor to assist you in the best way to approach this topic with your husband. It sounds like you have a lot to say, but have kept it in for a while. I can only imagine what you've dealt with and have held in. That's a lot of emotions to have to manage without release. Be kind to yourself.
If you felt that it would have been reasonable to call the police when this occurred, then I think that's all the validation you need to know that his reaction was abusive.
Take this for what you will. I am not saying you will ever need it, but if I was ever financially dependent on someone this is how I'd handle your situation (outside of the emotional aspect). Please note, you should seek professional help if you could be placed in a dangerous situation by doing any of the following.
I'd find a safe place where you can keep documents and/or copies of those documents that only you or someone you trust dearly can locate - financial (banking, checking, savings, 401ks, investments, stocks), passports, licenses, birth certificates, insurance (ALL) and medical. Do you have access to cash which no one else can touch? I'd suggest creating something like this, whether petty cash or etc. Document, document, document every single incident that occurs. You need to document what happened yesterday in full detail. Start keeping a paper trail of your duties with the kids, volunteering with the kids, and etc. everything you can.
Post by penguingrrl on Feb 14, 2023 10:23:23 GMT -5
I’m so sorry. Nobody ever has a right to hit you, that’s domestic abuse. How you want to handle it is up to you, but at the very least you both need therapy. He’s gaslighting you, which is emotionally abusive, and now it’s escalated to physical abuse. Don’t let him minimize this.
I can say that I've had this exact scenario with H before and come home to a messy house a little tipsy after a ladies night. The house was a mess, yes the kids were in bed. I was pissed and H and I argued about it. I went to bed annoyed but he never hit me once. You did nothing wrong here. Please talk to someone and find a path forward that gets you in a better place.
I knew I’d get blasted for saying that, but I did also say it was due to my own bias. I had a roommate who used to get drunk and then get into epic fights with her significant other. I did say that it was NOT ok for him to hit her but in my opinion you should have these conversations when in a clear mindset. There is definitely a lot going on here and they need outside help.
Stop. Knock it off. This isn't remotely the same. Her op already acknowledged that she knew the fact that she had been drinking was A factor. But 1. She's not your goddamned roommate, 2. Someone's drinking is never an excuse for abuse, 3. You knew you'd be "blasted" because you knew down deep this was a shit take. Ffs.
Post by sugarbear1 on Feb 14, 2023 11:39:27 GMT -5
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's all awful, but the hitting is eclipsed by the gaslighting.
I would start documenting, saving, making copies of important paperwork, and ultimately, make a plan. You don't have to leave, but it will be good to know that you can as soon as / if you are ready.
Post by plutosmoon on Feb 14, 2023 11:57:48 GMT -5
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I think therapy is a good idea, individual and couples, if he refuses you should go on your own to help you decide how to proceed. If he agrees to do couples therapy, you should still do individual.
I don't like that you are financially dependent on him. I recommend stashing away some cash, like everytime you get groceries grab some cash back to stash. Get an account in your name only for the money, at a different bank than you currently have. If you can safely access some money to put in your own account I would do that today. Build an account so you can leave quickly or support the kids if he's removed from the home in the event of future abuse. Courts can be slow to order financial support, my child support hearing was scheduled 3 months after our motion, another friends took nearly 6 months.
I would document what happened, take pictures it there are any marks. Open a new email account and save the pictures in the drive. I would not have the new email account on any device he accesses.
Thanks everyone, this is so out of character for him and I'm honestly so shocked and trying to process it while also taking care of my kids and doing our daily things at the same time.
I don't plan on leaving him at the current time but I do like the idea of having a plan in case I need to in the future. We have some friends going through divorces right now and I just can't imagine doing a shared custody with my kids. Also his business has finally hit a point where it is growing rapidly and will double in size each year for at least the next 5 years. This is everything he's been working towards and we saved and did without money and time for so many years to get to this point.
For those of you suggesting documents and papers to save, how do I do that for things I don't have access to? Our accounts have gotten so complex in the last few years that I don't really know where to begin. I have access to our joint checking and savings but I know he invests a lot and I don't know the ins and outs of all that. He's on the mortgage but both of us are on the house and we have several rental properties we are both on (no mortgage)
Our taxes are so complex. He has an accountant full time for his business but a lot of things he now uses the business to pay for based on the advice of the accounting firm, things like our healthcare, car insurance, car payment, etc. But I don't know any of those numbers or how to get them without raising any red flags. A lot of things he has given me passwords to in lastpass but they all have 2 part authentication so they are kind of pointless to me. I'm also not great with technology and that is his business, the things he does are so advanced and complicated that it is totally overwhelming for me.