@@@3/27 - Another school shooting in Nashville

[hermione]

Mar 29, 2023 3:15:39 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

Mar 28, 2023 21:37:48 GMT -5 mysteriouswife said:

My DD is in high school. The first day of class her teacher showed all the kids a filing cabinet drawer full of scissors and the bottom full of larger rocks. He said if something were to happen for the kids to grab one of each to throw at the attacker. He also had a metal table that he plans to flip and block the door. She came home shook. I was in awe he had carefully planned something out. It was later told he had a college friend in one of the school shootings. He was planning based on fear and tragedy on a personal level.

As a part of ALICE training we are all supposed to have a detailed plan in place if a shooter was to enter our building. Mine is similar to that teacher but we were never instructed to tell our students the plan. It's a fucking terrifying thing to think about.

I'm a public librarian. At our ALICE training I asked what we should do if we are in story time - which takes place in a glass room with one door and which will likely be filled with one librarian and 20 kids somewhere between the ages of 0-5 and their caregivers. The cop's answer was, "there is no one I'd rather fight for my life with than mothers trying to defend their babies." When I pointed out that this was a non-answer her said all of the adults should charge the shooter at the same time with everyone's intent to be to get the weapon. It's incredibly terrifying to plan for. We have stocked the room with something to lock the doors but, again, it's glass. There is no hiding spot let alone a hiding spot for 40 people.

[seeyalater52]

Mar 29, 2023 7:31:34 GMT -5 hermione said:

Mar 29, 2023 3:15:39 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

As a part of ALICE training we are all supposed to have a detailed plan in place if a shooter was to enter our building. Mine is similar to that teacher but we were never instructed to tell our students the plan. It's a fucking terrifying thing to think about.

I'm a public librarian. At our ALICE training I asked what we should do if we are in story time - which takes place in a glass room with one door and which will likely be filled with one librarian and 20 kids somewhere between the ages of 0-5 and their caregivers. The cop's answer was, "there is no one I'd rather fight for my life with than mothers trying to defend their babies." When I pointed out that this was a non-answer her said all of the adults should charge the shooter at the same time with everyone's intent to be to get the weapon. It's incredibly terrifying to plan for. We have stocked the room with something to lock the doors but, again, it's glass. There is no hiding spot let alone a hiding spot for 40 people.

Uh yeah parents of little kids are not interested in fighting an armed shooter together with our kids in the room. This is not a plan, my dude. I’m so sorry.

Ban the fucking guns. Solve the fucking problem.

[maudefindlay]

Some politician was on the news today saying it's not possible to ban assault weapons as there are already 2 million plus of them in America. Yeah, well you all want to ban books for which there are millions of copies so....

[fivechickens]

I work at my kids’ school. When we had ALICE training, groups were sent to classrooms and then we did scenarios of active shooting which involved a nerf gun. I was struck by the thought put into what the teacher had in his classroom. Many things that looked decorative where there in case of an active shooter (a heavy teacher knick-knack decor was to be used to throw at the shooter, for example).

I hate that while I am at work (I am a lunch lady) I always have in the back of my mind of what I would do if we had an active shooter situation. It would be so hard for me to leave the school knowing my kids were in there.

I hate this world we live in.

[mysteriouswife]

Mar 29, 2023 7:08:13 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

DD is worried. She said every time they do the active shooter drill she has classmates who won't be quiet and she's scared the shooter will find them because they'll be heard. Things the children of the country worry about, fuck.

My son said the same. He’s 7.

[maudefindlay]

Mar 29, 2023 8:15:27 GMT -5 mysteriouswife said:

Mar 29, 2023 7:08:13 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

DD is worried. She said every time they do the active shooter drill she has classmates who won't be quiet and she's scared the shooter will find them because they'll be heard. Things the children of the country worry about, fuck.

My son said the same. He’s 7.

I'm sorry. All the reassurance in the world to them feels like lying as the fear is real.

[sent]

maudefindlay, one of my staff was telling us yesterday that her 9 year old stifled a sneeze during a drill and the teacher said to her “oh great because of you, the shooter found us and now we’re all dead.” I was horrified for her and her child. 

[maudefindlay]

Mar 29, 2023 8:47:12 GMT -5 sent said:

maudefindlay, one of my staff was telling us yesterday that her 9 year old stifled a sneeze during a drill and the teacher said to her “oh great because of you, the shooter found us and now we’re all dead.” I was horrified for her and her child. 

Wtf? No child should be blamed for that, what a weight to carry. I'd bypass a phone call and would be sitting in an office chair waiting for the principal.

[msmerymac]

Mar 28, 2023 9:07:59 GMT -5 ECB said:

Washington Post has an article out today about the damage an AR-15 can do and they comment about how few people really know.   Well - good - put this story out so that more and more people REALLY understand the damage these guns can do.  They aren't for protection.  They are designed to kill.  Full stop.  

I read a great article in the Atlantic on DeSantis's authoritarianism and Florida culture the other day, written by a British, female journalist. She went to Florida and did some Florida things, including visiting a gun range. She said most guns definite had some recoil, but the AR-15 was so easy that it was like being in a video game.

A friend asked how she liked shooting the AR-15. Her response was basically, "It was amazing. No one should ever own one."


www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/05/ron-desantis-florida-state-politics-gop/673489/

[timorousbeastie]

Mar 29, 2023 7:08:13 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

DD is worried. She said every time they do the active shooter drill she has classmates who won't be quiet and she's scared the shooter will find them because they'll be heard. Things the children of the country worry about, fuck.

A couple months into this school year, my DD told me that she was sad she wasn’t in the other 3rd grade classes. The other classrooms have windows that look outside the school, whereas her room’s windows overlook a small courtyard, with no access to the exterior of the school. They had had an active shooter drill that day; DD was upset that the only option for the kids in her class was to stay in the room, whereas the other classes were told how they could get out the windows to run away from the school to a safe location. These are not the things that children (or teachers, or parents, or anyone) should have to worry about.

[hermione]

Mar 29, 2023 9:55:28 GMT -5 timorousbeastie said:

Mar 29, 2023 7:08:13 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

DD is worried. She said every time they do the active shooter drill she has classmates who won't be quiet and she's scared the shooter will find them because they'll be heard. Things the children of the country worry about, fuck.

A couple months into this school year, my DD told me that she was sad she wasn’t in the other 3rd grade classes. The other classrooms have windows that look outside the school, whereas her room’s windows overlook a small courtyard, with no access to the exterior of the school. They had had an active shooter drill that day; DD was upset that the only option for the kids in her class was to stay in the room, whereas the other classes were told how they could get out the windows to run away from the school to a safe location. These are not the things that children (or teachers, or parents, or anyone) should have to worry about.

In kindergarten, C told me she was "so glad all the kid fit in the classroom bathroom because she didn't want to hide alone when the bad man comes." A few months later she told me, "If we are in the gym when the bad man comes, we are supposed to run to the kitchen. I might try to hide behind the curtain on the stage though." Nothing like a 5 year old making contingency plans should she be confronted by a madman who wants to murder her.

[RoxMonster]

When I was a teacher (taught for 14 years and quit last year), we had to go through ALICE training with our students. I taught HS, so not sure how much they had the elementary kids do, but at HS level, they had a “shooter” played by a cop. They’d announce their location on loudspeaker and we had to determine if we could safely run or if we had to stay and hide/fight. We were expected to have students help us barricade our (glass) doors using classroom furniture and then we were all to find things we could use as weapons in the room such as scissors if we had to stay and hide. If we thought we could safely escape, we were to all run out of the building with arms raised above our heads.

One year this drill happened while I was on prep (no kids), and as I was hiding in my room with the “shooter” banging on lockers and trying to get in my room, I saw my students from other rooms running outside with hands in the air like you are during shootings, and I lost it. I started sobbing in my empty room and had a panic attack. This is so fucked up that as a society this shit is preferable to doing something about guns.

(For the ALICE training on inservice day when it was just teachers in the building, the “shooter” would actually attempt shooting us with a Nerf gun as well).

[Saudade]

Mar 29, 2023 9:31:04 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Mar 28, 2023 9:07:59 GMT -5 ECB said:

Washington Post has an article out today about the damage an AR-15 can do and they comment about how few people really know.   Well - good - put this story out so that more and more people REALLY understand the damage these guns can do.  They aren't for protection.  They are designed to kill.  Full stop.  

I read a great article in the Atlantic on DeSantis's authoritarianism and Florida culture the other day, written by a British, female journalist. She went to Florida and did some Florida things, including visiting a gun range. She said most guns definite had some recoil, but the AR-15 was so easy that it was like being in a video game.

A friend asked how she liked shooting the AR-15. Her response was basically, "It was amazing. No one should ever own one."


www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/05/ron-desantis-florida-state-politics-gop/673489/

This is a perfect description. I went to the gun range in September for the first time ever. I'd never held or touched a gun prior to that. I shot some kind of hand gun and an AR15. It was horrifying how easy it was and how destructive at a long range. I hated how I felt, both because of the immense power and because of the ease of use. I never want to see or touch another gun. If I had my way, I'd take all away and melt them all down, including hunting rifles. We absolutely do gun management wrong in this country. 

[NewOrleans]

Mar 29, 2023 10:39:42 GMT -5 RoxMonster said:

When I was a teacher (taught for 14 years and quit last year), we had to go through ALICE training with our students. I taught HS, so not sure how much they had the elementary kids do, but at HS level, they had a “shooter” played by a cop. They’d announce their location on loudspeaker and we had to determine if we could safely run or if we had to stay and hide/fight. We were expected to have students help us barricade our (glass) doors using classroom furniture and then we were all to find things we could use as weapons in the room such as scissors if we had to stay and hide. If we thought we could safely escape, we were to all run out of the building with arms raised above our heads.

One year this drill happened while I was on prep (no kids), and as I was hiding in my room with the “shooter” banging on lockers and trying to get in my room, I saw my students from other rooms running outside with hands in the air like you are during shootings, and I lost it. I started sobbing in my empty room and had a panic attack. This is so fucked up that as a society this shit is preferable to doing something about guns.

(For the ALICE training on inservice day when it was just teachers in the building, the “shooter” would actually attempt shooting us with a Nerf gun as well).

ALICE is a racket. They want it to continue. It’s disgusting. “I’m not scared— I’m prepared” training manuals for kids.

www.thetrace.org/2019/12/alice-active-shooter-training-school-safety/

and it’s not informed by research.

www.schoolsecurity.org/2012/11/5-alice-training-myths-students-attacking-armed-intruders/

[pixy0stix]

Did you all see the $60k "safe room" someone came up with to install in schools? www.scarymommy.com/parenting/whiteboard-safe-room-classroom-alabama


Along with the "we're spending money on something that we can fix by banning guns", all a shooter would need to do is stand on a desk to pop up the ceiling tile on that drop ceiling to gain access. It's fucking useless.

[mpm]

I’m so angry about the active shooter trainings in school. There’s no evidence they make anyone more safe, and ample evidence they can be traumatizing.

My state just passed a law requiring them in all schools. The law says districts “may” allow parents the option to opt out, so it’s totally up to the discretion of the district. And they’re going to be developed and conducted by the state homeland security/emergency management office not educators so there’s no guarantee that this state-mandated trauma will be conducted in an age-appropriate way for elementary schools where 4-year olds attend. And it passed by a massive landslide - even my democratic state house rep voted for it.

[NewOrleans]

Mar 29, 2023 10:57:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Did you all see the $60k "safe room" someone came up with to install in schools? www.scarymommy.com/parenting/whiteboard-safe-room-classroom-alabama


Along with the "we're spending money on something that we can fix by banning guns", all a shooter would need to do is stand on a desk to pop up the ceiling tile on that drop ceiling to gain access. It's fucking useless.

I did see this but hadn’t considered the ceiling tile. I was stuck on that assembly being part of the job description and wondering if acting en loco parentis would be enough to shield you from liability when you can’t get it put together in time. 

Creating carceral conditions is preferable for folks because it accomplishes the underlying goals of enhancing the school to prison pipeline and undermining public education by making it hostile. 

[mpm]

Mar 29, 2023 10:57:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Did you all see the $60k "safe room" someone came up with to install in schools? www.scarymommy.com/parenting/whiteboard-safe-room-classroom-alabama


Along with the "we're spending money on something that we can fix by banning guns", all a shooter would need to do is stand on a desk to pop up the ceiling tile on that drop ceiling to gain access. It's fucking useless.

And once the top of this is inevitably breached, how long will this contraption add to the time it will take emergency responders to access and extricate someone who needs urgent medical attention?

[wanderingback]

When I was living overseas I have the distinct memory of thinking about being in a club and not noting the nearest entrance like I do in the US due to the worry of a shooter entering.

One day I was traveling in a very rural and poor part of the country and there were kids outside playing in a dirt field. I have such a vivid memory of thinking that even though they were poor and thought of as needing saving by many Americans those kids will never have to worry about school shootings or drills. I felt so sad in that moment.

It’s criminal what we have normalized in this country. Ask doctors and nurses in other countries and they’ve never seen a child with a gunshot wound and barely see adults with them.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, I am not for "common sense gun laws." Guns need to be taken away from people.

[maudefindlay]

The more I read here, yikes. We need videos of these actual trainings. That's trauma, not Drag showtime. The people demanding to know curriculum have likely mostly never asked what happens in these drills.

[shauni27]

it always brings me to tears just reading about the scenarios that our kids are going through. I realized S (kindergarten) has never said anything about it, so I just sent an email to his school to ask if they do any training with the kids or just conversations. I would imagine if they did active drills at all, or even talked about it, S would be telling me about it.

This makes me feel sick to my stomach.

[lilac05]

Mar 29, 2023 10:57:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Did you all see the $60k "safe room" someone came up with to install in schools? www.scarymommy.com/parenting/whiteboard-safe-room-classroom-alabama


Along with the "we're spending money on something that we can fix by banning guns", all a shooter would need to do is stand on a desk to pop up the ceiling tile on that drop ceiling to gain access. It's fucking useless.

I watched that demo and wondered who in the world has that much open space in their classroom? Not just for the room, but for the space it takes up to move it into place. My kids’ school is newer and class sizes are reasonable, but no classrooms have enough space to even think of having something like this.

I also see lots of support for armed guards (because that worked so well in Parkland and Uvalde…) and bullet proof windows. (How do those work in a fire if kids needed to get out??

It’s all so messed up when there are dozens of solutions to significantly lessen the risk without taking away Karen’s precious pink handgun that she thinks she will somehow be able to effectively use for personal defense in her home (but also keep it locked up with ammo in a separate location. What do people think they’ll do, say, “Please hold, sir. I need to go to my safe in my bedroom and get my gun and then go to that cabinet to get my ammunition…and then you can proceed!”)

[chickadee77]

My kids had to do these in daycare (in FL). DAYCARE. How on earth can two teachers keep eight infants safe? How can 20 4yo kids stay quiet?

To their credit, they just called them "safety drills," or something innocuous like that and tried to make them not traumatizing, but how can you? How does this not leave a mark, even on kids that never actually have to deal with an active shooter?

[NewOrleans]

Mar 29, 2023 12:26:13 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Mar 29, 2023 10:57:07 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Did you all see the $60k "safe room" someone came up with to install in schools? www.scarymommy.com/parenting/whiteboard-safe-room-classroom-alabama


Along with the "we're spending money on something that we can fix by banning guns", all a shooter would need to do is stand on a desk to pop up the ceiling tile on that drop ceiling to gain access. It's fucking useless.

It’s all so messed up when there are dozens of solutions to significantly lessen the risk without taking away Karen’s precious pink handgun that she thinks she will somehow be able to effectively use for personal defense in her home (but also keep it locked up with ammo in a separate location. What do people think they’ll do, say, “Please hold, sir. I need to go to my safe in my bedroom and get my gun and then go to that cabinet to get my ammunition…and then you can proceed!”)

This is why gunnies are opposed to safe storage laws.  

[shauni27]

Mar 29, 2023 12:50:38 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

My kids had to do these in daycare (in FL). DAYCARE. How on earth can two teachers keep eight infants safe? How can 20 4yo kids stay quiet?

To their credit, they just called them "safety drills," or something innocuous like that and tried to make them not traumatizing, but how can you? How does this not leave a mark, even on kids that never actually have to deal with an active shooter?

that is SO fucked up.

This thread prompted me to call the school and ask what they do. The principal is wonderful and she said the staff do active training regularly, but they do not discuss or do any training other than fire drills with kids. They have an escape route planned out to leave the building, but the just tell the kids "if we ever need to leave the building, this is where you go. You go there with your class or if you have to go on your own because your teacher cannot take you and you cannot find another teacher, you go on your own." They practice that with the kids once a quarter and she assured me that they never even discuss guns or bombs in the school with them. Just fires or disasters.

It was very reassuring.

[lilac05]

NewOrleans, you and I know that. But all of the gun owners I know (Midwest, so…a lot) all swear they’re responsible gun owners. And they store their guns safely. Many will tell you that they’re in different places, to prove how responsible they are. But then…if that’s the case, they’re no good in a home invasion situation, which is what they all claim to be scared of.

Well, all except the mom in a former moms group who I found out later *always* carried a gun on her. Yes, even at play dates in other peoples’ homes. It was apparently one of those really tiny ones because I never saw it on her, but I 100% believe her. (I’ll let you guess how many more play dates we went on with them after that!)

I was at my kids’ school after an intruder drill (different than their ALICE drill, I guess?), and it legitimately triggered selective mutism in one of the students. He didn’t speak at all at school for several days. This wasn’t new for him in general, but he had been speaking at school before, and he is again now. Utterly heartbreaking.

[Poeticxpassion]

I am searching for a new elementary school for DS. I’m seriously considering the home schooling program. I’m absolutely terrified.

[estrellita]

Mar 29, 2023 13:42:50 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Mar 29, 2023 12:26:13 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

It’s all so messed up when there are dozens of solutions to significantly lessen the risk without taking away Karen’s precious pink handgun that she thinks she will somehow be able to effectively use for personal defense in her home (but also keep it locked up with ammo in a separate location. What do people think they’ll do, say, “Please hold, sir. I need to go to my safe in my bedroom and get my gun and then go to that cabinet to get my ammunition…and then you can proceed!”)

This is why gunnies are opposed to safe storage laws.  

Yup, then their kids get ahold of their guns, and someone gets hurt. Or worse.

[scm1011]

Mar 29, 2023 13:47:16 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Mar 29, 2023 12:50:38 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

My kids had to do these in daycare (in FL). DAYCARE. How on earth can two teachers keep eight infants safe? How can 20 4yo kids stay quiet?

To their credit, they just called them "safety drills," or something innocuous like that and tried to make them not traumatizing, but how can you? How does this not leave a mark, even on kids that never actually have to deal with an active shooter?

that is SO fucked up.

This thread prompted me to call the school and ask what they do. The principal is wonderful and she said the staff do active training regularly, but they do not discuss or do any training other than fire drills with kids. They have an escape route planned out to leave the building, but the just tell the kids "if we ever need to leave the building, this is where you go. You go there with your class or if you have to go on your own because your teacher cannot take you and you cannot find another teacher, you go on your own." They practice that with the kids once a quarter and she assured me that they never even discuss guns or bombs in the school with them. Just fires or disasters.

It was very reassuring.

I wish DS' school handled it that way. He's already been through 2 "lockdown safety drills" (starting in pre-k!) where they definitely talk about intruders. Also I hate that the protocol is they all hide in a large bathroom instead of using the door in their classroom that leads DIRECTLY TO THE OUTSIDE. I'd rather my kid take his chances by fleeing as opposed to being a sitting duck. 

My DH is a middle school teacher in one of the highest-poverty pockets of Boston. I asked him about shooter drills and he said his school didn't do them. I was surprised and he was all "These things don't happen at urban all-black schools." and shrugged. Flippant or not, it certainly made me think. 

[sparty04]

I'm surprised that so many kids don't have the drills. My kids have been having them since they were babies in daycare (it was in a high school so maybe that's why) and now that they're in Elementary school, they know that they're Alice drills and have a good idea of what they are for.

One thing that has always stuck in my head is light up shoes. I once read that a teacher had a kid take off their shoes because they were in hiding and that was the day I vowed I would never buy those.