I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
100%. I would not let her off thinking she made a good decision here. The good decisions she could have made in that moment were 1) waking up friend’s parents for help or 2) calling you for help/advice from afar and she didn’t do either of these things because she was not mature enough to be traveling without her parents yet.
I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
100%. I would not let her off thinking she made a good decision here. The good decisions she could have made in that moment were 1) waking up friend’s parents for help or 2) calling you for help/advice from afar and she didn’t do either of these things because she was not mature enough to be traveling without her parents yet.
I totally get it. If my kid was the one making the bad decision I would be so grateful for your DD. BUT especially with girls, we really feel pressure to fix things for others. I don't know how you teach the nuance that it is great to do but also not your responsibility.
I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
100% agree. It isn’t my kid’s job to save other people from their own bad decisions. Frankly, messaging all this helpfulness can be how girls end up staying with bad, abusive partners.
I think I'm with eddy on this one. There was a very recent situation locally where three teenagers made a stupid teenage decision, and one died. We'll never know whose idea it originally was, but after it happened I talked a lot with my kid about not following along with someone else's bad decision.
I generally feel completely unequipped to parent teenagers though so have no useful advice. I definitely wouldn't leave my kid under the supervision of those parents ever again, but it sounds like you have that covered.
Oh man. Raising teens is harrddd. Sometimes I miss the days of trying to fix the situation of your toddler asked for a banana, got it, and then got upset because they actually wanted goldfish. I truly do love teens but bigger kids, bigger problems.
Anyways I don't think I would punish. Your DD knew it was a mistake, didn't know what to do and made a bad decision, but then told you about it. It tells me she recognizes that she doesn't want that to happen again and wants your help. I would role play what she could have done different because she will be in a situation again and again where a friend makes a bad choice and she needs to know what to do. As much as raising teens is tough BEING a teen is tough. It sounds like she learned an important lesson and with that I just wouldn't punish more. Put parameters on when she can see this girl? Yes. Say okay you aren't ready to travel with friends yet? Yes. Ultimately though I would say this was an important lesson for your family and use it for better decisions for everyone the next time.
Post by jennistarr1 on Apr 17, 2023 9:11:46 GMT -5
SO I definitely don't want to sound judgmental at all, and really I have NO advice when it comes to a "punishment". Actually the thing to be proud of here is her honesty about it, and probably for that reason I would defer punishment. But the thing to understand is how much this guides decisions like this going forward...and the chance of her going to something like this again isn't happening.
When she didn't want something bad to happen to her friend, what bad things did she think could happen...because all of those STILL could have happened to her. In a lot of scenarios the presence of another person might not thwart "a bad guy" but just double the victims
1) Huge side eye to the parents for not reaching out to you when this happened. What the ACTUAL fuck??! You're responsible for someone else's kid, you LOSE TRACK OF THEM, and don't think you need to alert the other parent! I'm not exaggerating when I say my kid would likely never be in their supervision again. Ever. You want to see this friend? They come to us. Period.
2) I get where she was coming from, trying to "protect" her friend, but def agree that she needs to start understanding that it isn't her job to protect her friends. Sure, don't ghost a friend alone at the bar in college (not the example I'd use for this teaching situation, but ykwim), but you also don't have to put yourself into a questionable situation for the sake of someone else. It's a stretch to expect her to tattle on her friend in the moment and wake the mom, but texting/calling you would have been what I pushed for in the future.
3) I can't speak about how boys would handle this, but having a 15 year old girl myself? I can absolutely see the thought process here. They have a fierce loyalty to their friends. Mine came home in tears one day because someone had hurt HER friend (stupid texting drama), and she was truly so upset for the embarrassment her friend was experiencing that she was in tears. So yeah, girls and friend loyalty - I get it, and it makes it harder. I think part of the "punishment" would be a mandated break from this friend, and honestly only allowing them back in in small portions. Come over after school, while I'm home, for like 2 hours, leave before dinner. No unsupervised socializing at all for a good while.
oh, and I don't think I'd come down *too* hard on her for this. It sounds like she was pretty freaked out by it, and did admit/understand that it was wrong.
I have a policy that I'll come get either of my kids any time, for any reason. I don't ever want them to be afraid of asking for help in leaving a situation where they're uncomfortable. Now, that doesn't mean we won't have a conversation about how to avoid getting into that situation again, or there won't be some level of repercussions (like no, you can't hang with those kids, unsupervised, again any time soon), but it won't be a severe loss of privileges to truly "punish" them for ending up in a bad situation and asking for help to get out.
Maybe you could have some talks with her when the circumstances are more cold - like, not as she's about to head out the door, but as she's helping clean up dinner, or whatever, to help figure out a plan for what she could do if/when something like this happens again. As people have mentioned, teens can make terrible decisions. Even "good" teens, and friends that you generally like and trust. Help her with the language and plan for what to do next time something like this comes up.
I'd be ripshit at friend's parents. I also agree with the posters who said going with the friend was a terrible decision and shouldn't be supported. If friend was ubering into a dangerous situation, how the hell would a second teenage girl really be able to help? I'm not saying your daughter should have had this thought process, but that's the conversation I'd be having. If you think friend is doing a dangerous thing, the way to protect friend would be to notify the parents, not uber along. I don't have teens so I'm not sure exactly how I'd handle, especially without knowing your child's exact situation. I would only want my child to socialize with this other child at school or at my house. If your child confessed of their own free will after the fact I would praise the honesty but let them know trust would also have to be rebuilt. I'd probably put the burden on the child to check in, share location, maintain transparency in situations where they have freedom away from me. If this is part of a pattern then I'd probably curtail which social events they could attend.
I think it’s fair to teach about the difference between not “leaving a friend behind” and not walking out of a home/hotel room to jump into an Uber as a buddy for a meet-up.
In the not too far future, she will be in a dorm room, apartment, or spring break and someone is going to propose the same bad plan. Your DD should feel comfortable knowing what’s her responsibility to be a buddy and what’s not. This was not.
I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
100% agree. It isn’t my kid’s job to save other people from their own bad decisions. Frankly, messaging all this helpfulness can be how girls end up staying with bad, abusive partners.
I like both these perspectives. And why I wanted to hear what others had to say! I think this is a great approach and one to keep in mind when/if I feel my son will be in questionable situations.
Post by mcppalmbeach on Apr 17, 2023 9:34:40 GMT -5
Teenagers will kill you dead. And it never ceases to astound me how dumb they are…like let’s sneak out but use my mom’s Uber account and hope she doesn’t notice! Digital footprint dummies! I mean I’m glad they’re dumb, but it still surprises me lol.
I would suggest natural consequences for this. First of all a long talk about how we are not our friend’s keeper and following someone into a bad decision is not helpful for either of you. We need a break on that friend for a while and future interactions will be more closely monitored. Does she have life 360 or whatever on her phone? Given this is the second time she’s had an Uber situation I would tell her she’s getting that also. I would keep her on a slightly shorter leash, but I would probably not fully lock down her life.
I’m just kind of curious…did they go to this boy’s house? Were his parents home? Did the girl ask her mom if she could see him? I don’t think I could stop myself from talking to the other girl’s mom about what happened.
I think you’re doing great and are taking the wise advice you’re receiving here.
Two questions ripped entirely from my own teen years: are you SURE there wasn’t another boy there? Are you SURE your daughter just watched a movie on the couch?
I don't know if I would want my kid going along and I am not sure if I would view it as the right thing to do. The virtue of not leaving a friend behind. IDK, I think I a realizing I am bit more selfish than others in this thread. I don't want my kid to have to feel responsibility to police others bad decisions. So I think that would be part of my conversation. You are not under obligation to fix this for others. Your DD could have been in danger too and that doesn't sit right with me. I don't think that is what I would promote as a good decision. I would be leary of lifting that decision up too much. She doesn't need to be the savior in the future. It is perfectly acceptable to say, best of luck to you if a friend is making a bad decision.
100%. I would not let her off thinking she made a good decision here. The good decisions she could have made in that moment were 1) waking up friend’s parents for help or 2) calling you for help/advice from afar and she didn’t do either of these things because she was not mature enough to be traveling without her parents yet.
I'm here. The good decision in this case was to involve an adult. I would ground my child for this, and she would not be allowed to see that friend anymore because I do not trust the parents. She made a huge mistake.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I agree with pp that it's important to reinforce to kids that their safety is paramount and that while we want them to care about other people, putting yourself at risk just means there are now two people in danger. It's good that she told you, but I would reinforce to her that you absolutely want her to call you and wake you up in the middle of the night if s situation like this develops when she feels like she has no good options.
I would also stress to her that biologically, their brains are not developed enough to predict all the potential risks in a situation like this. I don't want to be a fear mongerer, but I would definitely talk through this with your daughter and tell her point-blank that if the Uber driver or the boy or the boy's older brother's friend wanted to take them or harm them, your daughter being there was not actually making her friend any safer. Anyone who would hurt one 15yo will probably not hesitate to hurt two. Or push one of them out of the car in the middle of nowhere if they didn't want to deal with two. There's a huge difference between not letting your friend walk home by herself after a party in college and getting into a stranger's car or house at 15 in the middle of the night in another state and no one will know you are missing for hours.
I just had to have a version of this talk with my younger daughter (age 10) because I realized that the extra water bottle she packed (and carried all day) on a field trip was for her friend that never brings a drink to school. And then she gave the friend $5 because the friend left her money on the bus. While DD was being exceptionally kind, it's not her job to solve the problem that the mom or the friend aren't responsible enough to send a water bottle with lunch. It's the job of the adults - the parents and teachers. The teachers had extra water, or I would have bought the kid a bottle of water myself. I was mostly upset that DD felt like she had to solve this herself and didn't ask me or another adult for help. So I know a little bit about how you feel.
I agree with pp that it's important to reinforce to kids that their safety is paramount and that while we want them to care about other people, putting yourself at risk just means there are now two people in danger. It's good that she told you, but I would reinforce to her that you absolutely want her to call you and wake you up in the middle of the night if s situation like this develops when she feels like she has no good options.
I would also stress to her that biologically, their brains are not developed enough to predict all the potential risks in a situation like this. I don't want to be a fear mongerer, but I would definitely talk through this with your daughter and tell her point-blank that if the Uber driver or the boy or the boy's older brother's friend wanted to take them or harm them, your daughter being there was not actually making her friend any safer. Anyone who would hurt one 15yo will probably not hesitate to hurt two. Or push one of them out of the car in the middle of nowhere if they didn't want to deal with two. There's a huge difference between not letting your friend walk home by herself after a party in college and getting into a stranger's car or house at 15 in the middle of the night in another state and no one will know you are missing for hours.
I just had to have a version of this talk with my younger daughter (age 10) because I realized that the extra water bottle she packed (and carried all day) on a field trip was for her friend that never brings a drink to school. And then she gave the friend $5 because the friend left her money on the bus. While DD was being exceptionally kind, it's not her job to solve the problem that the mom or the friend aren't responsible enough to send a water bottle with lunch. It's the job of the adults - the parents and teachers. The teachers had extra water, or I would have bought the kid a bottle of water myself. I was mostly upset that DD felt like she had to solve this herself and didn't ask me or another adult for help. So I know a little bit about how you feel.
This part I disagree with.
Telling a teen that they don't, in fact, know everything is like trying to tell that to a microwave. WE know their brains aren't developed, but to THEM? They feel super grown up, and take a lot of pride in being "mature," and independent. I don't know that articulating that they're biologically immature would necessarily help the situation.
I find it better to help them outline courses of action for different scenarios (even though no, we can't predict everything) instead of trying to get them to believe that they aren't nearly as grown up as they think they are.
I agree with pp that it's important to reinforce to kids that their safety is paramount and that while we want them to care about other people, putting yourself at risk just means there are now two people in danger. It's good that she told you, but I would reinforce to her that you absolutely want her to call you and wake you up in the middle of the night if s situation like this develops when she feels like she has no good options.
I would also stress to her that biologically, their brains are not developed enough to predict all the potential risks in a situation like this. I don't want to be a fear mongerer, but I would definitely talk through this with your daughter and tell her point-blank that if the Uber driver or the boy or the boy's older brother's friend wanted to take them or harm them, your daughter being there was not actually making her friend any safer. Anyone who would hurt one 15yo will probably not hesitate to hurt two. Or push one of them out of the car in the middle of nowhere if they didn't want to deal with two. There's a huge difference between not letting your friend walk home by herself after a party in college and getting into a stranger's car or house at 15 in the middle of the night in another state and no one will know you are missing for hours.
I just had to have a version of this talk with my younger daughter (age 10) because I realized that the extra water bottle she packed (and carried all day) on a field trip was for her friend that never brings a drink to school. And then she gave the friend $5 because the friend left her money on the bus. While DD was being exceptionally kind, it's not her job to solve the problem that the mom or the friend aren't responsible enough to send a water bottle with lunch. It's the job of the adults - the parents and teachers. The teachers had extra water, or I would have bought the kid a bottle of water myself. I was mostly upset that DD felt like she had to solve this herself and didn't ask me or another adult for help. So I know a little bit about how you feel.
This part I disagree with.
Telling a teen that they don't, in fact, know everything is like trying to tell that to a microwave. WE know their brains aren't developed, but to THEM? They feel super grown up, and take a lot of pride in being "mature," and independent. I don't know that articulating that they're biologically immature would necessarily help the situation.
I find it better to help them outline courses of action for different scenarios (even though no, we can't predict everything) instead of trying to get them to believe that they aren't nearly as grown up as they think they are.
It probably depends on the teen and a better delivery than mine. 🤣 I was (poorly) trying to communicate that most typical consequences or discipline for a situation like this aren't really going to dissuade most teens from making another emotional choice. If consequences could improve impulse control in my ADHD kids, my life would be so much easier. So I try to reinforce to them that it's not that they are purposely making impulsive/emotional/risky choices, but their brains aren't set up to predict risks and they haven't lived through enough bad experiences yet. But they like to know the science behind their feelings and actions, so it works for them.
My daughter's English class this quarter is focusing on the neuroscience of the teen brain, and this situation reminded me of a TED talk they had to watch. It was actually a really good explanation of the strengths of the teenage brain and how the same parts of their brains that can cause then to make emotional decisions allow them to develop independence and creativity and social connections better than adults or younger children. It definitely appealed to my daughter because everyone is always telling teens that they make poor choices but not telling them that it's all part of their brains growing.
A semi-relevant detail is that the night before H and I watched the Dateline on Kristin Smart - she went missing after she wanted to go to a party and her friend left her and she’s never been found. It broke my heart to see how this 45 year old woman is still haunted by how it could have gone differently if she stayed with Kristin.
Although now I remember Kristin’s mom told the friend “if you stayed there could have been two victims.”
This shit is so hard.
I literally was thinking about this while reading your post. Kristin’s story sticks with me. I’ve always thought what if that friend had stayed with her. But that poor girl tried her hardest to get Kristin to just go home and she refused. I thought that Kristin’s mom’s statement was very profound and made me really think about these types of situations. I’m all for - don’t leave a friend behind! But there is only so much you can do. And you shouldn’t have to put yourself in danger.
I think you handled it well. I think having these types of experiences and talking through scenarios is important. At 15 and a split second decision - that is so hard! So knowing what to do ahead of time for things is going to help. Yeah in college don’t leave a drunk friend behind at a party…but as a teen going in an Uber at night to a strange boy’s house to go after a friend is not the same situation. She wouldn’t have been able to stop anything from happening and put herself in danger. The way to help her friend was to involve an adult.
Good call with not sending to her TS with the friend. That is a completely understandable punishment as you can't trust that friend or the two of them together. And it is really going to hurt because the concert is SO GOOD.
I hope this situation scared your DD enough that there is a natural consequence vibe to it all. I hope the feelings sticks with her for awhile.