Post by wanderingback on Jul 13, 2023 8:00:33 GMT -5
Update on 3rd page.
If someone got drunk at work, would you presume they had a alcohol use problem or would you not jump to that conclusion and just think they were having an off day?
Has anyone ever dealt with this as a manager/supervisor?
ETA: This was not a party. This was not a hung over from the night before.
Post by maudefindlay on Jul 13, 2023 8:06:22 GMT -5
I would assume they had something going on at the least (personal crisis) as drinking at work is showing a real lack of judgement and could put others in harms way and could negatively impact the business and reputation. Definitely grounds for immediate termination in my opinion.
Was everyone drinking and they just drank too much? Or was it a random Tuesday at 9am and they were drunk? I feel differently based on situation. Also if drinking is common in the workplace? Like how some companies have whole beer fridges.
Post by karinothing on Jul 13, 2023 8:08:51 GMT -5
Was this like a work party? I can't imagine a time where it would be acceptable to get drunk at work in a nonparty situation. If it was during the workday, then There would 100% be a conversation and likely some kind of suspension or something. I can't imagine no repercussions. And if someone is getting drunk during the workday, I would think that there is some alcohol problem.
Post by Patsy Baloney on Jul 13, 2023 8:09:18 GMT -5
Yes, in the instance I’m dealing with it is part of a larger addiction problem. I’ve come in mid-way, so I’m not sure how it first appeared in the workplace, but I would generally assume someone using alcohol during the work day was dealing with problem drinking.
We have a union contract in place that we are following - we can encourage use of the treatment plans available to us and have standing approval for any time off for medical needs regarding recovery. We have progressive discipline and utilize it when necessary for instances where problem drinking/alcoholism have caused issues with work performance, attendance, unacceptable office behavior, etc.
As others have said, it really depends on the context. If alcohol was already being consumed at a work event or even a liquid lunch, they maybe just overindulged and it is a one-off. I can't think of any viable reason to just be randomly drinking at work on your own that doesn't involve a bigger issue.
It kind of depends. Did they show up for an early shift still drunk from the night before? I'd lean more toward the benefit of the doubt that it's an off day, send them home, use sick time or don't get paid or whatever option is available.
Is it the middle of the day and they're drunk like they've been taking nips in the breakroom all morning? I'd lean more toward alcohol use problem. Either talk to HR or if you're comfortable, talk directly to the person that you've noticed XYZ, do they need resources, here's how your insurance could help find them, etc.
Post by SusanBAnthony on Jul 13, 2023 8:29:21 GMT -5
At my company we would place them in our drug/alcohol monitoring program and require them to get treatment (whatever their medical provider recommends, could be anything from therapy to inpatient) to maintain employment.
In my workplace (manufacturing) being under the influence could kill you or others.
Post by purplepenguin7 on Jul 13, 2023 8:31:31 GMT -5
very industry and company specific. Alcohol is huge part of our my work culuture. In office happy hours are the norm, events with full bars and more. There would have to be a lot of red flags for HR or a supervisor to intervene. Of course there are many industries where alcohol would be prohibited or highly discouraged so that would be a completely different issue at hand.
You should be aware of when alcoholism falls under ADA. However, it is not covered as a disability to be drunk or under the influence of alcohol at work.
As a manager, it’s not my job to make assumptions. If they broke a company policy, I’d address that policy violation as appropriate, and since it’s alcohol related that would include offering info about our company’s EAP and services available through the state bar.
Was everyone drinking and they just drank too much? Or was it a random Tuesday at 9am and they were drunk? I feel differently based on situation. Also if drinking is common in the workplace? Like how some companies have whole beer fridges.
It kind of depends. Did they show up for an early shift still drunk from the night before? I'd lean more toward the benefit of the doubt that it's an off day, send them home, use sick time or don't get paid or whatever option is available.
Is it the middle of the day and they're drunk like they've been taking nips in the breakroom all morning? I'd lean more toward alcohol use problem. Either talk to HR or if you're comfortable, talk directly to the person that you've noticed XYZ, do they need resources, here's how your insurance could help find them, etc.
Added to my post. This wasn’t a party and not hung over from the night before.
Depends on the situation. But if we’re talking about drinking alcohol in the middle of a normal workday while performing work (like at one’s desk), then I would assume they have some kind of alcohol use problem. Ie: needing to drink to cope with a normal work day.
I’d assume a problem, yes. I work in education. There is never a time for alcohol. I assume you are talking about health care which also seems like a a field of zero tolerance for alcohol at work.
Post by maudefindlay on Jul 13, 2023 8:54:50 GMT -5
If this is at your work and they are in a patient facing job, especially if they were doing direct care I'd think that could bring a lawsuit/malpractice case. So while yes it would be good to offer resources, I don't see a way to keep them in that role, at least not without removing them for a time.
If you saw them take a swig, and/or you can clearly smell it on them, drinking problem for sure.
Neither or those, but they are acting impaired, I would assume reaction to meds or health issue which I think is way more common than people realize. I've had that happen with one of my coworkers, but we've worked together for 20 years and I know he has diabetes so I knew something else was up.
It needs to be addressed, in the moment if possible (sending the person home for the day and meeting set up the following day) and HR should be looped in (unless you are HR). If you have a zero tolerance policy or if someone was in danger, that could be termination worthy. Other things to consider would be the tenure of the person, performance, any prior concerns. I'd let the person explain from their perspective to see if they're mortified and it was a one off, or a side effect of a new medication making them appear intoxicated, etc and go from there as far as termination, write up but no further action, or assistance with EAP resources and support.
Post by starburst604 on Jul 13, 2023 8:59:57 GMT -5
Yes they probably have a problem. An admin who works for us told me at her last job (a pediatric office) the other admins used to day drink for fun, like adding Bailey's to their coffee etc. Just one of the reasons she quit. You should have seen my face.
Do you know for sure it's alcohol they're using? Did you smell it or something? I ask because we once had a temp and after a couple of weeks it became apparent she was using something but it wasn't alcohol, more likely pills.
In the first instance I would not assume they have an alcohol problem but would discipline (written warning most likely) and if there was a reoccurrence mandate treatment. I work in HR and have seen this a couple of times, this is how we typically handle, but if someone is drunk at my work no one is in physical danger.
I have a couple of stories about drinking on the job
A former colleague of mine went to work at a client, and we started noticing that the work product and documents we were receiving from that persona were late, incomplete, and/or incorrect. When we brought it up to the management of the former colleague, they eventually discovered that the colleague was drinking on the job. There were bottles in this persons desk, and the worst part was as the employee was being walked out they dropped a covered coffee cup. The liquid that spilled out wasn't coffee it was vodka. The employee was terminated and I believe went to rehab.
When I was in my twenties during busy season at work we were working minimum 80 hour weeks and usually at work for 12-15 hours on most days. We would often have beer on our dinner break and then finish up working for a few more hours. I think management just looked the other way and trusted no one was over doing it. I would not do that now (but I also wouldn't accept a job with those hours now).
I definitely think a conversation at least is warranted; a lot of workplaces have zero tolerance for substance use (including alcohol).
Post by karinothing on Jul 13, 2023 9:07:02 GMT -5
Since this was not a party and not hung over from the night before (both of which I still find problematic). I think managers 100% need to discuss it with the person. I think a zero tolerance policy for work drinking is pretty normal. However, I personally don't think I would just to immediate termination. I would talk to the person about getting them help. There are a lot of states the provide specific substance abuse programs for those in the medical field so I would look into that. Honestly. I would want to help them, but there is still a line to draw. If the person is unwilling to get help then i think termination is the only option.
You said not a party, but was it a lunch where they had too many drinks with colleagues? Or were they drinking by themselves in the office, like taking nips from their desk or adding whiskey to their coffee?
The first could be a really poor decision and the second would be a problem. Also, how old are they? For the first, if they're close to college age, it's poor judgment, but a learning opportunity.
If you came drunk to my work (teacher), you'd probably be fired and I assume the same might be true of medical professionals. Being impaired at my job puts children at risk.
As a manager though, I think I'd be really concerned and try to help the person.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I think in your field, it doesn’t matter what the situation is. It’s a problem. If you are patient-facing and you’re drinking, you should not be in the office. Even if you’re front desk staff, what if there was an emergency? The person isn’t functioning at full capacity, isn’t making clear decisions…they need to GO HOME. Then it can be dealt with the next day regarding whether it was an “off day” (in which case I do think the person should be fired because they should KNOW BETTER), or if it’s an addiction, where you can then try to get them some help.
I would try to not make assumptions until I could talk to the person about the situation at a time when they were not impaired.
At my job you would likely not be fired for drinking on the clock, but there would be an assumption of a drinking problem. You would probably be placed on leave (possibly paid medical) and told you must get help before returning to work, there is generally a time limit attached. If you did not attend some sort of alcohol program during that time, then you would be terminated, or if you return after completing a alcohol program and it happens again, then you may face stronger repercussions. Addiction is considered a medical condition at my job and treated as such.
I've never dealt with it directly, but I know there have been instances of on the job drinking which were handled like this.