It’s such a strange story—were they looking for some child to exploit or did the opportunity arise and they ran with it? How does it even occur to someone to do something like that? Not sharing the money from the movie is beyond.
Especially since (as I understand it) their 2 bio kids explicitly got a cut of the money.
Maybe a stupid question… but is this the same kind of conservatorship that Britney Spears had? Like, Is he in control of his own finances?
Yes and it seems like he was not in control of his finances—they were able to conduct business in his name and his contracts.
Indeed. Let’s say for a moment that we believe this was done in his best interest for college (which is bullshit, but let’s just play for a moment), and that their claims that they only got like $250k for the movie and split that 5 ways. He’s graduated college now, and has had and retired from an NFL career. And they built a foundation based off of their story. And the mom wrote books and gave speeches piggybacking from ALL of this stuff.
So, even if you take their claims at face value, they have DEFINITELY profited off of Michael. Well into adulthood too, and throughout his NFL career which likely has untold financial gains left and right. And the fact that they still have a conservator ship over him at this age is beyond the pale.
They are profiteers, plain and simple. They likely see it as a simple business exchange with no wrong doings. The feel entitled to what they have worked so hard to get. Flying in someplace and being fawned all over while giving a motivational white savior speech is tiring, y’all. Don’t you understand?? They worked SO HARD!!!
That’s their entire life’s M.O. work off other people and be rich through others work. They literally don’t see any issues with anything they’ve done. And their statement that they’ll still treat him like when he was a teenager? Likely. Something to gain prestige from while keeping him at a safe enough distance so they are protected. They are trash, pure and simple.
Yes and it seems like he was not in control of his finances—they were able to conduct business in his name and his contracts.
Indeed. Let’s say for a moment that we believe this was done in his best interest for college (which is bullshit, but let’s just play for a moment), and that their claims that they only got like $250k for the movie and split that 5 ways. He’s graduated college now, and has had and retired from an NFL career. And they built a foundation based off of their story. And the mom wrote books and gave speeches piggybacking from ALL of this stuff.
So, even if you take their claims at face value, they have DEFINITELY profited off of Michael. Well into adulthood too, and throughout his NFL career which likely has untold financial gains left and right. And the fact that they still have a conservator ship over him at this age is beyond the pale.
They are profiteers, plain and simple. They likely see it as a simple business exchange with no wrong doings. The feel entitled to what they have worked so hard to get. Flying in someplace and being fawned all over while giving a motivational white savior speech is tiring, y’all. Don’t you understand?? They worked SO HARD!!!
That’s their entire life’s M.O. work off other people and be rich through others work. They literally don’t see any issues with anything they’ve done. And their statement that they’ll still treat him like when he was a teenager? Likely. Something to gain prestige from while keeping him at a safe enough distance so they are protected. They are trash, pure and simple.
I read an article yesterday from the "tuohy side" and Sean Tuohy claims that because he sold his franchise for $213 million, they don't need the whatever amount a year it would have been from the movie - I can't find the exact quote. But this made me roll my eyes. All i see going on in our country is insanely rich people only want to be MORE insanely rich and will absolutely do anything they can to make more money at the expense of others.
Post by somersault72 on Aug 16, 2023 10:47:59 GMT -5
Of course all the local news stations (this isn't local to me) are posting about this on their FB pages and cue the "well he is welcome for all they did for him." or "He's just doing this now because he's broke." I can't with these people.
What I don't understand is why he is still under the convservatorship - or did I misunderstand that? I thought he was suing to get out of it.
He is suing to get out of it, as well as recoupment of funds he should’ve gotten the entire time he was snookered.
ECB all the tuohy statements read as completely out of touch, rich, old white dude justification of their nonsense. It’s really worse with each statement I read.
I do wonder what the kids have to say. It seems they actually did care about him, not just his money.
What I don't understand is why he is still under the convservatorship - or did I misunderstand that? I thought he was suing to get out of it.
He is suing to get out of it, as well as recoupment of funds he should’ve gotten the entire time he was snookered.
ECB all the tuohy statements read as completely out of touch, rich, old white dude justification of their nonsense. It’s really worse with each statement I read.
I do wonder what the kids have to say. It seems they actually did care about him, not just his money.
One of the articles posted in this thread was SJ's statement.
Post by mcppalmbeach on Aug 16, 2023 11:41:50 GMT -5
What I don’t think I understand is that at least from what I understand of conservatorship from Britney Spears (admittedly not much) is that you don’t really have access to your money. Like you can’t make a big purchase without input from the conservator…so in all the time since this was signed has he not tried to buy a home or a car or invested anything. Did he do all that with the family’s input and say so? I’m confused how it’s all just coming to light .
I find it interesting that that Sr is like "why would I do that? I have all kinds of money" and Jr is all "I wish I was a multimillionaire, if I was I would put that in my email signature" like he's poor or something. Very different perspectives there.
What I don’t think I understand is that at least from what I understand of conservatorship from Britney Spears (admittedly not much) is that you don’t really have access to your money. Like you can’t make a big purchase without input from the conservator…so in all the time since this was signed has he not tried to buy a home or a car or invested anything. Did he do all that with the family’s input and say so? I’m confused how it’s all just coming to light .
they're not all the same. It sounds like it gave them permission to make agreements on his behalf, but didn't remove his ability to access his own funds.
He is suing to get out of it, as well as recoupment of funds he should’ve gotten the entire time he was snookered.
ECB all the tuohy statements read as completely out of touch, rich, old white dude justification of their nonsense. It’s really worse with each statement I read.
I do wonder what the kids have to say. It seems they actually did care about him, not just his money.
One of the articles posted in this thread was SJ's statement.
Thanks. I’d only read parent statements. It’s…less out of touch? Sort of.
I read some nonsense op-ed article that The Blind Side was the mother's story not Oher's. It was so white savior yuck that I had to stop reading. It's all so gross.
What I don’t think I understand is that at least from what I understand of conservatorship from Britney Spears (admittedly not much) is that you don’t really have access to your money. Like you can’t make a big purchase without input from the conservator…so in all the time since this was signed has he not tried to buy a home or a car or invested anything. Did he do all that with the family’s input and say so? I’m confused how it’s all just coming to light .
they're not all the same. It sounds like it gave them permission to make agreements on his behalf, but didn't remove his ability to access his own funds.
That makes sense. But I’m still confused. Because in the last 14 years surely he has entered into some other agreements. So did it just add their ability to do it for them or did it take away rights for him to do it himself? It’s all just so bizarre.
I find it interesting that that Sr is like "why would I do that? I have all kinds of money" and Jr is all "I wish I was a multimillionaire, if I was I would put that in my email signature" like he's poor or something. Very different perspectives there.
He's not a multimillionaire, his dad is- it doesn't matter that his family can float costs for him, give him start up money, pay for his schooling, give him his first apartment deposit, take him on vacations- that doesn't mean HE's wealthy. He still has to work hard, he's still roughing it. If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic, but this is how I assume he waves away his privilege.
We were discussing this at lunch with my staff (no one is white) and my theory is that if he was adopted, he would have to be considered a full family member be included in the will and inheritance and stuff. Whereas with this other arrangement, it's more of a business agreement and Oher doesn't have to be financially treated the same as their other 2 kids when it comes to the distribution of family wealth. I have no idea if this is true but in my head it makes sense. I tried to explain the white savior thing to them as "the family was trying to get points with God" and everyone laughed.
We were discussing this at lunch with my staff (no one is white) and my theory is that if he was adopted, he would have to be considered a full family member be included in the will and inheritance and stuff. Whereas with this other arrangement, it's more of a business agreement and Oher doesn't have to be financially treated the same as their other 2 kids when it comes to the distribution of family wealth. I have no idea if this is true but in my head it makes sense. I tried to explain the white savior thing to them as "the family was trying to get points with God" and everyone laughed.
We had wondered it was also a way to avoid paying for college or any other expenses for him that they might had to do if he was actually adopted. He probably qualified for financial aid and other services since he was an adult with no legal parents or guardians.
Or they just saw an opportunity to profit off this man and ran with it.
they're not all the same. It sounds like it gave them permission to make agreements on his behalf, but didn't remove his ability to access his own funds.
That makes sense. But I’m still confused. Because in the last 14 years surely he has entered into some other agreements. So did it just add their ability to do it for them or did it take away rights for him to do it himself? It’s all just so bizarre.
I can’t find it now but what I had read somewhere gave me the impression that even though it was still in effect all this time they basically weren’t involved for a while and he was signing things that perhaps legally should have gone through the conservators. Then he found out recently it was still in effect and wants it dissolved.
We were discussing this at lunch with my staff (no one is white) and my theory is that if he was adopted, he would have to be considered a full family member be included in the will and inheritance and stuff. Whereas with this other arrangement, it's more of a business agreement and Oher doesn't have to be financially treated the same as their other 2 kids when it comes to the distribution of family wealth. I have no idea if this is true but in my head it makes sense. I tried to explain the white savior thing to them as "the family was trying to get points with God" and everyone laughed.
We had wondered it was also a way to avoid paying for college or any other expenses for him that they might had to do if he was actually adopted. He probably qualified for financial aid and other services since he was an adult with no legal parents or guardians.
Or they just saw an opportunity to profit off this man and ran with it.
I don't know if you've seen the movie, but he got a full scholarship at Ole Miss. He had multiple universities trying to recruit him, there was a whole section of the movie about it.
We had wondered it was also a way to avoid paying for college or any other expenses for him that they might had to do if he was actually adopted. He probably qualified for financial aid and other services since he was an adult with no legal parents or guardians.
Or they just saw an opportunity to profit off this man and ran with it.
I don't know if you've seen the movie, but he got a full scholarship at Ole Miss. He had multiple universities trying to recruit him, there was a whole section of the movie about it.
No, the movie sounded horrible and racist when it came out so I never saw it.
I know he got a scholarship and other offers but they don’t always cover everything you can get as a low income independent student and of course, if your aid is tied to sports you can lose it if you are injured and can’t play or decide not to play for whatever reason.
ETA My point was that at that early point they might have hoped that he would go on to make money and maybe even they could sell the story but in the meantime they wouldn’t have the obligations they would if he was their actual adopted child plus control of anything in the future.
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 17, 2023 2:16:49 GMT -5
I'm an older adoptee (age 11) and at the time it was explained to me that it gave dad's wife "mom" rights to do things like sign permission slips or get medical care, be called in an emergency. Stuff that was necessary to our well being. To the state there was literally no difference between her and my bio mom. They actually sealed my birth certificate and issued a new one with her name, age at my birth, etc.
Would conservatorship grant that? I also know nothing of conservatorship beyond Britney.
White savior rich people aside, I can see why one might prefer an alternate route. Adoption has a lot of subsequent side effects. I've tried to be un adopted, actually, but it's more hassle than it's worth.
But hell no to the lying and withholding money from selling the story.
Just adding that no one is obligated to pay for their kid’s college
But it would have been a bad visual if they were paying for their white children’s while their black child went without, which I think was more of the point. If that played into any of this, it’s only bc they didn’t want to look bad.
I'm an older adoptee (age 11) and at the time it was explained to me that it gave dad's wife "mom" rights to do things like sign permission slips or get medical care, be called in an emergency. Stuff that was necessary to our well being. To the state there was literally no difference between her and my bio mom. They actually sealed my birth certificate and issued a new one with her name, age at my birth, etc.
Would conservatorship grant that? I also know nothing of conservatorship beyond Britney.
White savior rich people aside, I can see why one might prefer an alternate route. Adoption has a lot of subsequent side effects. I've tried to be un adopted, actually, but it's more hassle than it's worth.
But hell no to the lying and withholding money from selling the story.
Thank you for sharing.
I can certainly appreciate the complexities of adoption situations and why families may choose paths that others may not. But if he was an adult (or even a teen) and was deceived, and the parents main purpose was to exploit him, I think that’s where it turns gross. Not necessarily the how, but the why
Just adding that no one is obligated to pay for their kid’s college
But it would have been a bad visual if they were paying for their white children’s while their black child went without, which I think was more of the point. If that played into any of this, it’s only bc they didn’t want to look bad.
I'm an older adoptee (age 11) and at the time it was explained to me that it gave dad's wife "mom" rights to do things like sign permission slips or get medical care, be called in an emergency. Stuff that was necessary to our well being. To the state there was literally no difference between her and my bio mom. They actually sealed my birth certificate and issued a new one with her name, age at my birth, etc.
Would conservatorship grant that? I also know nothing of conservatorship beyond Britney.
White savior rich people aside, I can see why one might prefer an alternate route. Adoption has a lot of subsequent side effects. I've tried to be un adopted, actually, but it's more hassle than it's worth.
But hell no to the lying and withholding money from selling the story.
Thank you for sharing.
I can certainly appreciate the complexities of adoption situations and why families may choose paths that others may not. But if he was an adult (or even a teen) and was deceived, and the parents main purpose was to exploit him, I think that’s where it turns gross. Not necessarily the how, but the why
Oh I absolutely agree they were likely shit. And they lied. I don't agree with any of that.
I was just addressing the other adoption of an older child issues.
My bio mom was dead, so that wasn't in play. It still hurt when I needed the birth certificate to get my passport renewed it a driver's licence in another state, I don't remember, but it showed not my mom.
If he didn't know that happens, or maybe it's a Florida specific thing, he might have not known until now.
But still, they've profited and he didn't. For his own story. That's bullshit
I'm an older adoptee (age 11) and at the time it was explained to me that it gave dad's wife "mom" rights to do things like sign permission slips or get medical care, be called in an emergency. Stuff that was necessary to our well being. To the state there was literally no difference between her and my bio mom. They actually sealed my birth certificate and issued a new one with her name, age at my birth, etc.
Would conservatorship grant that? I also know nothing of conservatorship beyond Britney.
White savior rich people aside, I can see why one might prefer an alternate route. Adoption has a lot of subsequent side effects. I've tried to be un adopted, actually, but it's more hassle than it's worth.
But hell no to the lying and withholding money from selling the story.
I can see the many pros of not adopting him as an adult but really they didn’t need to do anything at all.
Conservatorship goes way beyond adoption because it eliminates the person in the conservatorship’s ability to make decisions on their own behalf including financial and medical decisions as an adult, unless it is dissolved by the courts. They have even fewer rights than older minor children do when it comes to their care. He could be forced to turn down or accept job offers against his wishes, have medical decisions made about him without his involvement etc
If they wanted to be able to help him in an emergency he, as a legal adult, could have just listed them as his emergency contact and grant them temporary medical POA at the time of the event for any medical treatments.
I’m afraid I’m going to come across as a Touhy apologist, and I really don’t mean it that way. But I do think the facts are way more complicated than the initial legal filing will suggest. That doesn’t mean I don’t think this family did some things wrong. I’m just trying to better understand the facts. I’m sort of talking out loud here.
The reality is that a biological parent is able to influence where their child goes to school. Because Oher was not their biological child and these folks were huge supporters of a particular school, the NCAA got really concerned. I have no idea if these folks were bad actors in taking this kid in because they wanted to inappropriately influence him on where to play football or if they truly cared for him (and I think this is all very complicated when you layer in religious, white savior stuff).
When the NCAA got involved, I think everyone was scrambling. Again, we will see how the facts play out — but my guess is that signing some limited conservatorship paperwork was a faster process to satisfy the NCAA. They didn’t have time for adoption for him to play his freshman year. Who knows if these people would have adopted him if they had the time? I grew up around college football and I’m fully aware of both recruiting shenanigans (which is all I could think of years ago when I watched the movie). But, I’m also aware of some ridiculous NCAA stuff as well.
The reality is that it will be very interesting to see what this conservator paperwork really let them do. It doesn’t sound like they signed his NFL contract or got any of that money. He still seemed to have the ability to sign his own contracts, etc.
I also think people convince themselves they are selling “their” story and not the story of the famous person they are centering themselves around. And those people still think they love and care for the famous person. See almost every momager/dadager around young celebrities. Or everyone around OJ and Nicole that wrote a book, etc. I have a dad that loves me that would 100% have found a way to benefit if I got famous (as you can imagine we have a complicated relationship).
I think these people did a lot of stuff that was a mess. I think Oher should be able to get some remedy for some of this. But I just think the legal facts that play out are not going to be completely straightforward.
I’m afraid I’m going to come across as a Touhy apologist, and I really don’t mean it that way. But I do think the facts are way more complicated than the initial legal filing will suggest. That doesn’t mean I don’t think this family did some things wrong. I’m just trying to better understand the facts. I’m sort of talking out loud here.
The reality is that a biological parent is able to influence where their child goes to school. Because Oher was not their biological child and these folks were huge supporters of a particular school, the NCAA got really concerned. I have no idea if these folks were bad actors in taking this kid in because they wanted to inappropriately influence him on where to play football or if they truly cared for him (and I think this is all very complicated when you layer in religious, white savior stuff).
When the NCAA got involved, I think everyone was scrambling. Again, we will see how the facts play out — but my guess is that signing some limited conservatorship paperwork was a faster process to satisfy the NCAA. They didn’t have time for adoption for him to play his freshman year. Who knows if these people would have adopted him if they had the time? I grew up around college football and I’m fully aware of both recruiting shenanigans (which is all I could think of years ago when I watched the movie). But, I’m also aware of some ridiculous NCAA stuff as well.
The reality is that it will be very interesting to see what this conservator paperwork really let them do. It doesn’t sound like they signed his NFL contract or got any of that money. He still seemed to have the ability to sign his own contracts, etc.
I also think people convince themselves they are selling “their” story and not the story of the famous person they are centering themselves around. And those people still think they love and care for the famous person. See almost every momager/dadager around young celebrities. Or everyone around OJ and Nicole that wrote a book, etc. I have a dad that loves me that would 100% have found a way to benefit if I got famous (as you can imagine we have a complicated relationship).
I think these people did a lot of stuff that was a mess. I think Oher should be able to get some remedy for some of this. But I just think the legal facts that play out are not going to be completely straightforward.
They could have decided not to intervene at certain times/when he was older and that’s why he seems surprised it was still in effect. It’s also possible he conducted business that legally he was not supposed to on his own. Or they did negotiate these contracts for or with him, that doesn’t seem clear. Conservators can’t just take all of the money their ward makes because it is supposed to be for the care of someone who cannot care for themselves. So it’s no plus in their side that they didn’t steal his paycheck.
It’s bizarre to think that it is okay to have control over virtually all aspects a man’s life until his death because you want him to go to a specific college to play sports. I don’t know how they arrived at that decision at all. Even a limited conservatorship strips him of rights all adults should have and is supposed to be for individual who cannot make decisions for themselves due to disability. It does not appear that he has a disability that limits his ability to make choices about his life and care.
If they were truly concerned about his life they could have gotten a POA which is easier to dissolve. Or at the very least gone to court and asked to dissolve the conservatorship when he was like 21 or something.
Just adding that no one is obligated to pay for their kid’s college
But it would have been a bad visual if they were paying for their white children’s while their black child went without, which I think was more of the point. If that played into any of this, it’s only bc they didn’t want to look bad.
While you aren’t obligated to pay, you are obligated to fill out a fafsa to get aid and until a child is 24 you are legally obligated to disclose your finances and have your income and assets used to choose whether a child gets aid. That may have been part of what they were trying to avoid.
I’m afraid I’m going to come across as a Touhy apologist, and I really don’t mean it that way. But I do think the facts are way more complicated than the initial legal filing will suggest. That doesn’t mean I don’t think this family did some things wrong. I’m just trying to better understand the facts. I’m sort of talking out loud here.
The reality is that a biological parent is able to influence where their child goes to school. Because Oher was not their biological child and these folks were huge supporters of a particular school, the NCAA got really concerned. I have no idea if these folks were bad actors in taking this kid in because they wanted to inappropriately influence him on where to play football or if they truly cared for him (and I think this is all very complicated when you layer in religious, white savior stuff).
When the NCAA got involved, I think everyone was scrambling. Again, we will see how the facts play out — but my guess is that signing some limited conservatorship paperwork was a faster process to satisfy the NCAA. They didn’t have time for adoption for him to play his freshman year. Who knows if these people would have adopted him if they had the time? I grew up around college football and I’m fully aware of both recruiting shenanigans (which is all I could think of years ago when I watched the movie). But, I’m also aware of some ridiculous NCAA stuff as well.
The reality is that it will be very interesting to see what this conservator paperwork really let them do. It doesn’t sound like they signed his NFL contract or got any of that money. He still seemed to have the ability to sign his own contracts, etc.
I also think people convince themselves they are selling “their” story and not the story of the famous person they are centering themselves around. And those people still think they love and care for the famous person. See almost every momager/dadager around young celebrities. Or everyone around OJ and Nicole that wrote a book, etc. I have a dad that loves me that would 100% have found a way to benefit if I got famous (as you can imagine we have a complicated relationship).
I think these people did a lot of stuff that was a mess. I think Oher should be able to get some remedy for some of this. But I just think the legal facts that play out are not going to be completely straightforward.
They could have decided not to intervene at certain times/when he was older and that’s why he seems surprised it was still in effect. It’s also possible he conducted business that legally he was not supposed to on his own. Or they did negotiate these contracts for or with him, that doesn’t seem clear. Conservators can’t just take all of the money their ward makes because it is supposed to be for the care of someone who cannot care for themselves. So it’s no plus in their side that they didn’t steal his paycheck.
It’s bizarre to think that it is okay to have control over virtually all aspects a man’s life until his death because you want him to go to a specific college to play sports. I don’t know how they arrived at that decision at all. Even a limited conservatorship strips him of rights all adults should have and is supposed to be for individual who cannot make decisions for themselves due to disability. It does not appear that he has a disability that limits his ability to make choices about his life and care.
If they were truly concerned about his life they could have gotten a POA which is easier to dissolve. Or at the very least gone to court and asked to dissolve the conservatorship when he was like 21 or something.
I don’t disagree, but I bet the NCAA would never have found POA acceptable. This whole thing is a mess. And I feel terrible for a young kid that had all these adults making decisions for him without fully explaining things (that would likely be hard for any 18 year old to fully appreciate).
My husband and I will have to take full guardianship of our child with profound intellectual disability. While the Oher situation is TOTALLY DIFFERENT, this stuff always makes me think about the challenges of always having to act in the best interest of someone else.