AirBnB new limiting law in NYC

[notsopicky]

www.fastcompany.com/90948413/airbnb-nyc-crackdown-new-rules-hosts-guests

I understand why this law was passed. What I don't understand is the first point, about the locks, and based on the locks point, how renters would feel about the second point. 

But besides registering for a license, hosts in NYC will face other new rules and restrictions, notes Skift, including:

• Hosts must no longer have locks on bedroom doors as hosts will be required to offer a “common household” with the renter.
  
  
• Hosts must live in the unit with the renter.
  
  
• Hosts cannot rent their units while they are away on vacation or for work since they must be living in the rental unit while the renter is there.
  
  
  
• Hosts can only offer stays that are shorter than 30 days in duration.
  
  
  
• Hosts must also certify with the OSE that they understand all the relevant multiple dwelling laws, construction codes, and zoning rules in New York City.

If I am going to stay at an AirBnB, and the owners are required to be there in the dwelling with me, does the above reg mean that I can't lock the door, like at night while I'm sleeping? Or am I misunderstanding? 

[neverfstop]

Yes, it seems a bit extreme based on the little that I know... There's got to be a middle ground.

[raleighnc]

Sept 5, 2023 4:31:04 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

www.fastcompany.com/90948413/airbnb-nyc-crackdown-new-rules-hosts-guests

I understand why this law was passed. What I don't understand is the first point, about the locks, and based on the locks point, how renters would feel about the second point. 

But besides registering for a license, hosts in NYC will face other new rules and restrictions, notes Skift, including:

• Hosts must no longer have locks on bedroom doors as hosts will be required to offer a “common household” with the renter.
  
  
• Hosts must live in the unit with the renter.
  
  
• Hosts cannot rent their units while they are away on vacation or for work since they must be living in the rental unit while the renter is there.
  
  
  
• Hosts can only offer stays that are shorter than 30 days in duration.
  
  
  
• Hosts must also certify with the OSE that they understand all the relevant multiple dwelling laws, construction codes, and zoning rules in New York City.

If I am going to stay at an AirBnB, and the owners are required to be there in the dwelling with me, does the above reg mean that I can't lock the door, like at night while I'm sleeping? Or am I misunderstanding? 

You can have regular privacy locks for when someone is in the room (like the push button locks on a bathroom or bedroom door). You can't have locks that can be operated from outside the room with keys/codes when no one is in the room (so you can lock the room when you leave). That's a common requirement for rentals because you are potentially preventing access to egress points. If individual rooms lock, it becomes more like a hotel with different safety/fire codes.

www.nyc.gov/site/specialenforcement/stay-in-the-know/information-for-hosts.page

[goldengirlz]

Sept 5, 2023 5:50:59 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Yes, it seems a bit extreme based on the little that I know... There's got to be a middle ground.

This IS the middle ground. AirBNBs have been a net-negative on places like NYC, and this is the compromise short of banning them entirely.

[sakoro]

Sept 5, 2023 9:05:50 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2023 5:50:59 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Yes, it seems a bit extreme based on the little that I know... There's got to be a middle ground.

This IS the middle ground. AirBNBs have been a net-negative on places like NYC, and this is the compromise short of banning them entirely.

I would love to see something like this in San Diego or Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz in particular is at risk of becoming a city of majority Airbnbs, rather than residential housing.

[bronxgirl]

Sept 5, 2023 9:05:50 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Sept 5, 2023 5:50:59 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Yes, it seems a bit extreme based on the little that I know... There's got to be a middle ground.

This IS the middle ground. AirBNBs have been a net-negative on places like NYC, and this is the compromise short of banning them entirely.

I wish they were banned entirely.  I thought they were already illegal in NYC, although people do it anyway. Hopefully these restrictions will be enforced so AirBnB can be minimized if not completely gone. 

[Michelle]

Edit - Wow I didn't realize the housing crisis was as bad as it is in NYC. My comments below are about Airbnb's in general, not about cities in crisis like NYC right now. I appreciate the education down thread!

*********************************


I have such mixed feelings about this.

When I was in Paris, I used an airbnb. I wanted to live like a local, not stay in a hotel. We had a tiny apartment on Ille de la Cite and came and went as if we lived in the heart of the city. We grocery shopped, did a load of laundry, took baths in the tub (I desperately needed the magnesium baths after all the walking).

And yet in my suburban neighborhood someone rented their home as an airbnb and people had huge parties and left a mess behind, and we have investors coming in buying properties to rent out, driving down the quality of life for the homeowners that live in the neighborhood.

I'm thinking that maybe city-based airbnbs could restrict the number of guests and the number of permissible airbnbs within a geographical area to balance that experience with the problem of investors buying up all the properties to rent to travelers, pricing rents out of the market and creating a transient culture that takes away from the community.

[Velar Fricative]

Short of banning it entirely I’m fine with this. The housing crisis is not 100% Airbnb’s fault but they do play a role. I don’t care how anyone feels about hotels but they follow a whole set of regulations that Airbnb has been able to completely ignore.

[wildrice]

Sept 5, 2023 11:55:58 GMT -5 Michelle said:

I have such mixed feelings about this.

When I was in Paris, I used an airbnb. I wanted to live like a local, not stay in a hotel. We had a tiny apartment on Ille de la Cite and came and went as if we lived in the heart of the city. We grocery shopped, did a load of laundry, took baths in the tub (I desperately needed the magnesium baths after all the walking).

And yet in my suburban neighborhood someone rented their home as an airbnb and people had huge parties and left a mess behind, and we have investors coming in buying properties to rent out, driving down the quality of life for the homeowners that live in the neighborhood.

I'm thinking that maybe city-based airbnbs could restrict the number of guests and the number of permissible airbnbs within a geographical area to balance that experience with the problem of investors buying up all the properties to rent to travelers, pricing rents out of the market and creating a transient culture that takes away from the community.

I agree with some version of this. I love renting apartments and strongly prefer them over hotels. I also hate that investors are making it difficult for people to live in local communities. In places where airBNB is decimating the local rental market, I do think they should be eliminated or at least severely limited to allow for local renters to have options for places to live. I'd happily pay more to stay in apartments if this means demand ends up being too much for availability. 

[goldengirlz]

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen any discussion on this board about the housing crisis facing the city’s new immigrants, who have exploded in number over the past year:

www.nytimes.com/article/nyc-migrant-crisis-explained.html

I’m sure the locals can weigh in, but from the coverage, it seems like NYC is in emergency mode right now, which should take precedence over tourists’ desires to spend a week or two living like the locals do.

[Michelle]

Sept 5, 2023 12:32:31 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen any discussion on this board about the housing crisis facing the city’s new immigrants, who have exploded in number over the past year:

www.nytimes.com/article/nyc-migrant-crisis-explained.html

I’m sure the locals can weigh in, but from the coverage, it seems like NYC is in emergency mode right now, which should take precedence over tourists’ desires to spend a week or two living like the locals do.

I also agree with this, and wasn't aware of the immigrant housing issue in NYC. Thanks for sharing the link so i can read up!

[Vespasia]

I have stayed at AirBns/VRBOs many times in the past but I fully support NYC and any other areas putting limits on them. Ditto any other necessary travel restrictions like tourism caps, cruise ship bans, etc. 

I'm hoping that hotels will shift towards having more apartment-style offerings. The main reason we've stayed at AirBnbs in the past is so we can have a separate bedroom (MH has insomnia and usually moves to the coach if he can't sleep to watch tv) and a kitchen for booze beverages and snack storage. Our last 2 trips we've stayed at Residence Inns, which were unexciting but met our needs. 

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 5, 2023 12:48:07 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

I have stayed at AirBns/VRBOs many times in the past but I fully support NYC and any other areas putting limits on them. Ditto any other necessary travel restrictions like tourism caps, cruise ship bans, etc. 

I'm hoping that hotels will shift towards having more apartment-style offerings. The main reason we've stayed at AirBnbs in the past is so we can have a separate bedroom (MH has insomnia and usually moves to the coach if he can't sleep to watch tv) and a kitchen for booze beverages and snack storage. Our last 2 trips we've stayed at Residence Inns, which were unexciting but met our needs. 

We've managed to always find legit hotels that offer suite options when we've needed them (over the last several years at least). Maybe Airbnbs still come out cheaper but alas, we avoid them.

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 5, 2023 12:32:31 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen any discussion on this board about the housing crisis facing the city’s new immigrants, who have exploded in number over the past year:

www.nytimes.com/article/nyc-migrant-crisis-explained.html

I’m sure the locals can weigh in, but from the coverage, it seems like NYC is in emergency mode right now, which should take precedence over tourists’ desires to spend a week or two living like the locals do.

Not every neighborhood is in emergency mode (yet), but I can probably safely say the neighborhoods with the most Airbnbs are likely the neighborhoods that most people, including immigrants, would gravitate towards for housing due to transit access, etc. 

[Saudade]

While I love staying at AirBnBs, my city is in the hurt bag with housing because of the short-term rental market. I don't even live in a super exciting city. Something needs to change and this would be hugely helpful here.

[sonrisa]

Sept 5, 2023 11:55:58 GMT -5 Michelle said:

I have such mixed feelings about this.

I used an airbnb. 

And yet in my ... neighborhood 

This is the central issue. Not urban v. suburban v. rural. Locations where AirBnBs proliferate suffer the consequences of its infiltration. The units gut local affordable housing stock for residents and workers, whether it's NYC or Tahoe or Maui or the Bay Area. Local regulations and licensing requirements can mitigate some of the damages.

[plutosmoon]

This sounds like a decent compromise to me. I don't think it's too strict. It should help with long term renters and those wanting to buy and live in the unit. I do worry about people ignoring the law and how it will be enforced.

I live in a tourist destination, it's a rural city(population around 15,000) and Airbnb has been a huge factor in our housing crisis. Year round residents, without whom the tourists wouldn't be able to enjoy their vacation, can't find housing. I spent 2 years house hunting, I had a 20% down payment, steady income and good credit, which is more than a lot of locals have. It wasn't locals I was competing with, it was a lot of part time owners and airbnbers. Rental units are hard to find, prices have skyrocketed. Its not just that unaffordable, it's that there are just not units being offered for the year round market. I know people with steady income that have experienced unhoused periods over the last few years because there was just nowhere to go. You can't even rent a local airbnb in their time between permanent housing because they don't rent to locals.

We do have 3 small housing projects in my city, but the wait-list is long, and the process to qualify isn't always easy. This also doesn't help with the sheer lack of housing units available in the community.

I don't use Airbnb, its just too harmful to many local communities.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Sept 5, 2023 12:48:07 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

I have stayed at AirBns/VRBOs many times in the past but I fully support NYC and any other areas putting limits on them. Ditto any other necessary travel restrictions like tourism caps, cruise ship bans, etc. 

I'm hoping that hotels will shift towards having more apartment-style offerings. The main reason we've stayed at AirBnbs in the past is so we can have a separate bedroom (MH has insomnia and usually moves to the coach if he can't sleep to watch tv) and a kitchen for booze beverages and snack storage. Our last 2 trips we've stayed at Residence Inns, which were unexciting but met our needs. 

Same. We occasionally do an AirBnB/VRBO but it's usually for very specific purposes - like renting a lake cabin.

@@@

When DD was younger we liked them for vacations so we'd have bedrooms separate from living space and a kitchen we could stock with some food she would reliably eat. It wasn't so much that it was cheaper than a suite in a hotel but it was less limiting.

Not much of an issue anymore but was a lifesaver when she needed to go to bed at 7 pm and only ate 4 things.

[sent]

I saw somewhere that NYC is a minuscule part of AirBNB's markets. Also the whole reason people rave about AirBNB including those on this thread is the ability to rent the whole apartment or house. This regulation is only for current owners that are looking to rent their spare bedroom which was AirBNB's whole premise when it first came out. I don't see how this is going to help that family looking for an apartment when all the apartments have turned into short-term rentals. NYC and the apartment buildings themselves already have some pretty strict rules about turning full apartments into AirBNBs already. The family of 3 looking for housing wouldn't be renting a bedroom from another family anyways, at least not for a long term solution.

Regulations need to become a lot tighter if towns and cities care that locals are being displaced.

I've never used an AirBNB. The saying is "vote with your wallet." I often feel like I'm in the minority here since this thing has just kept growing and is now a monster.

[notsopicky]

Thank you for the education about the locks.

I agree w/ limits. Based on the information in this thread, I wonder how many other cities are nearing or have hit critical mass with housing.

Do y'all think that other cities will model legislation based on the NYC law?

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 5, 2023 17:26:39 GMT -5 notsopicky said:

Thank you for the education about the locks.

I agree w/ limits. Based on the information in this thread, I wonder how many other cities are nearing or have hit critical mass with housing.

Do y'all think that other cities will model legislation based on the NYC law?

If housing in any given area has stayed astronomically high even with the interest rate hikes, then I think we've hit it. This includes rentals.

[Michelle]

Sept 5, 2023 15:28:39 GMT -5 sent said:

I saw somewhere that NYC is a minuscule part of AirBNB's markets. Also the whole reason people rave about AirBNB including those on this thread is the ability to rent the whole apartment or house. This regulation is only for current owners that are looking to rent their spare bedroom which was AirBNB's whole premise when it first came out. I don't see how this is going to help that family looking for an apartment when all the apartments have turned into short-term rentals. NYC and the apartment buildings themselves already have some pretty strict rules about turning full apartments into AirBNBs already. The family of 3 looking for housing wouldn't be renting a bedroom from another family anyways, at least not for a long term solution.

Regulations need to become a lot tighter if towns and cities care that locals are being displaced.

I've never used an AirBNB. The saying is "vote with your wallet." I often feel like I'm in the minority here since this thing has just kept growing and is now a monster.

Hmmm i read it that the only types of AirBnBs that would be allowed would be this kind, and renting an entire apartment will no longer be an option.

Based on the immigrant housing crisis, that seems reasonable for NYC's needs.

[al dente]

I think this sounds like a good compromise. I've stayed in Airbnbs where the owners rent out the bottom part and live upstairs or a similar type of split which I feel like benefits all? And was kind of the core premise of Airbnb at the start.

I wish my area would do something similar. They instead limited Airbnb to just certain areas which are also where the hotels are. It's annoying when family comes into town that they can't stay any closer to me since we don't live close to the hotel tourist area.

[sent]

Sept 5, 2023 18:11:28 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Sept 5, 2023 15:28:39 GMT -5 sent said:

I saw somewhere that NYC is a minuscule part of AirBNB's markets. Also the whole reason people rave about AirBNB including those on this thread is the ability to rent the whole apartment or house. This regulation is only for current owners that are looking to rent their spare bedroom which was AirBNB's whole premise when it first came out. I don't see how this is going to help that family looking for an apartment when all the apartments have turned into short-term rentals. NYC and the apartment buildings themselves already have some pretty strict rules about turning full apartments into AirBNBs already. The family of 3 looking for housing wouldn't be renting a bedroom from another family anyways, at least not for a long term solution.

Regulations need to become a lot tighter if towns and cities care that locals are being displaced.

I've never used an AirBNB. The saying is "vote with your wallet." I often feel like I'm in the minority here since this thing has just kept growing and is now a monster.

Hmmm i read it that the only types of AirBnBs that would be allowed would be this kind, and renting an entire apartment will no longer be an option.

Based on the immigrant housing crisis, that seems reasonable for NYC's needs.

I think NYC made the apartment kind mostly not allowed a while back. This seems to be a way to regulate the bedroom kind. I'm for all the regulations and the disruptors can go home. 

[preppy]

I am 100% ok with this and wish they would do it where I live. They are trying to crack down but the short term rentals are causing a lot of housing issues on the island where I live and there are so few places for people to live.

[jeaniebueller]

Sept 5, 2023 20:38:15 GMT -5 preppy said:

I am 100% ok with this and wish they would do it where I live. They are trying to crack down but the short term rentals are causing a lot of housing issues on the island where I live and there are so few places for people to live.

Ditto. I live in a tourist area and it’s frustrating to see housing built and it turn into short term housing. Meanwhile we have homeless encampments and people living in tents.

[ESF]

Sept 5, 2023 15:28:39 GMT -5 sent said:

I saw somewhere that NYC is a minuscule part of AirBNB's markets. Also the whole reason people rave about AirBNB including those on this thread is the ability to rent the whole apartment or house. This regulation is only for current owners that are looking to rent their spare bedroom which was AirBNB's whole premise when it first came out. I don't see how this is going to help that family looking for an apartment when all the apartments have turned into short-term rentals. NYC and the apartment buildings themselves already have some pretty strict rules about turning full apartments into AirBNBs already. The family of 3 looking for housing wouldn't be renting a bedroom from another family anyways, at least not for a long term solution.

Regulations need to become a lot tighter if towns and cities care that locals are being displaced.

I've never used an AirBNB. The saying is "vote with your wallet." I often feel like I'm in the minority here since this thing has just kept growing and is now a monster.

I am with you in having never used AirBnb. 

This is a really good point. I went and read the actual article, and then a link in it --

skift.com/2023/08/30/airbnbs-nyc-listings-could-be-down-70-after-september-5/

If I'm understand this all correctly, the law affects two groups of Airbnb hosts: those renting a bedroom or portion of a shared home for any duration, and entire apartments/homes for 30 days or less.  If it's an entire home and you can rent it for more than 30 days, then it's not covered. I wonder if there's some separate law that puts those kinds of arrangements under traditional landlord/tenant rules. 

I think there are two ways it is attempting to improve the housing situation: (1) people with a spare bedroom who want extra income might not be approved to host rotating guests, and should look at getting a roommate instead, and (2) anyone who maintains a vacant property and rents it out on a hotel-type basis now may have a harder time doing so.

According to this article, there are 23,000 active AirBnb listings in NYC will be impacted by this law. 6,000 not covered (whole homes for 30+ day stays), but the rest will be.  

I suspect it might have a strong impact on the spare bedroom renting, which has an added benefit of being very good for protecting the consumers who use AirBnb. So that's a plus. 

I am curious though about what they anticipate changing from the whole-home hosting though. The hosts will just have to register and get approved, but I imagine it'll be far easier to get whole-homes approved than bedrooms approved.

[Deleted]

I agree that AirBNBs can be super-convenient for traveling as a family, but I also believe that affordable safe housing is a human right that should take precedence over my family’s convenience during a leisure activity. In places where there isn’t a conflict between these two (say, in a vacation or tourist location, or in an area where there isn’t a housing shortage) then sure, I’d prefer to stay in an AirBNB. But it’s the government’s job to regulate them so they don’t interfere with the basic human right of affordable safe housing.

[Velar Fricative]

Sept 6, 2023 9:13:31 GMT -5 ESF said:

Sept 5, 2023 15:28:39 GMT -5 sent said:

I saw somewhere that NYC is a minuscule part of AirBNB's markets. Also the whole reason people rave about AirBNB including those on this thread is the ability to rent the whole apartment or house. This regulation is only for current owners that are looking to rent their spare bedroom which was AirBNB's whole premise when it first came out. I don't see how this is going to help that family looking for an apartment when all the apartments have turned into short-term rentals. NYC and the apartment buildings themselves already have some pretty strict rules about turning full apartments into AirBNBs already. The family of 3 looking for housing wouldn't be renting a bedroom from another family anyways, at least not for a long term solution.

Regulations need to become a lot tighter if towns and cities care that locals are being displaced.

I've never used an AirBNB. The saying is "vote with your wallet." I often feel like I'm in the minority here since this thing has just kept growing and is now a monster.

I am with you in having never used AirBnb. 

This is a really good point. I went and read the actual article, and then a link in it --

skift.com/2023/08/30/airbnbs-nyc-listings-could-be-down-70-after-september-5/

If I'm understand this all correctly, the law affects two groups of Airbnb hosts: those renting a bedroom or portion of a shared home for any duration, and entire apartments/homes for 30 days or less.  If it's an entire home and you can rent it for more than 30 days, then it's not covered. I wonder if there's some separate law that puts those kinds of arrangements under traditional landlord/tenant rules. 

I think there are two ways it is attempting to improve the housing situation: (1) people with a spare bedroom who want extra income might not be approved to host rotating guests, and should look at getting a roommate instead, and (2) anyone who maintains a vacant property and rents it out on a hotel-type basis now may have a harder time doing so.

According to this article, there are 23,000 active AirBnb listings in NYC will be impacted by this law. 6,000 not covered (whole homes for 30+ day stays), but the rest will be.  

I suspect it might have a strong impact on the spare bedroom renting, which has an added benefit of being very good for protecting the consumers who use AirBnb. So that's a plus. 

I am curious though about what they anticipate changing from the whole-home hosting though. The hosts will just have to register and get approved, but I imagine it'll be far easier to get whole-homes approved than bedrooms approved.

From my vantage point here in the borough with the highest rate of home ownership in NYC, there are a lot more people trying to rent a whole home (we also have mostly single family properties here) because the market to buy has become increasingly out of reach for more people, and this is an area known for good schools without the laborious school application process much of the rest of the city has. These are generally families and/or multi-generational households looking to rent, so any such homes that used to be listed on AirBNB can now be listed as options for long-term rentals. I doubt the city will approve that many whole homes to be used as short-term rentals for this reason. By sheer numbers it's not going to solve the problem completely, but what this new regulation is offering are additional, much-needed rental options for people. Anyone who used AirBNB for spare bedrooms should just get a steady roommate instead, and anyone who owns a whole apartment or house should just rent it out for a year or two at a time with a lease. But, owners wanted the higher AirBNB costs and people with few to no other options paid through the noise for a place to live.

[sonrisa]

Sept 6, 2023 9:17:21 GMT -5 @villainv said:

In places where there isn’t a conflict between these two (say, in a vacation or tourist location,)

this is a false dichotomy. Everywhere tourists go and people vacation also has residents. People live and work locally.