Israel at war after surprise attack

[AJL]

The situation going on right now is not complicated. This is Hamas terrorizing Israel. Israelis hiding in a bomb shelter were murdered by Hamas militants. Israelis waiting at a bus stop where gunned down by Hamas militants. A grandmother was murdered on her own Facebook live by Hamas militants. Women are being raped by and murdered by Hamas militants. Babies and children are being kidnapped and murdered by Hamas militants. Hamas has kidnapped Israelis, taken them to Gaza, and have publicly stated they will being to execute them and air it live. Hamas' entire goal is destroy Israel through whatever means necessary and that is what they trying to do. 

Hamas is not Palestine. Hamas is endangering the lives of Palestinians, too. It always has. 

Come at me with all your flames and torches and whatever, but I'm not budging from this. I have spent the last four days watching untold amounts of media from all over the world and the truth is what you're seeing here in the U.S. is so sanitized and being presented as if this is an escalation of a decade long resistance of the occupation. It is not. THIS IS DIFFERENT. 

[Bad Dingo]

Thank you, AJL. I don't understand this both-sidesing blatant terrorist attacks. What is happening is horrific.

I'm not going to get into the whole history because of course what has happened to the Palestinians is horrible and of course the Israeli gov't has done horrible things. But the reason this has gone on so long is because many many groups of people want all Jews dead. They simply don't want them to exist.

War is horrible, people lose their homes, their lands, their lives. Nothing justifies terrorism and attacks on innocent civilians.

So many people think it's ok because they think 1. Jews aren't innocent. 2. Jews aren't people worthy of being alive.

[hermione]

Oct 10, 2023 10:02:14 GMT -5 mcsangel2 said:

Oct 10, 2023 9:06:47 GMT -5 hermione said:

I have a former co-worker in Jerusalem. She's been planning this trip for as long as I've known her - about 10 years. Her posts, while calm, are scary. They are going to try to get to Jordan today to come home.

I thought the borders were closed? Are they letting tourists out?

She is now safely in Jordan.

[heat40]

All the images and news, it’s all been so horrible. To all those affected and suffering, I’ll keep you in my prayers. This is incredibly horrific, please take care of yourselves.

[AJL]

Oct 10, 2023 12:21:50 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Thank you, AJL . I don't understand this both-sidesing blatant terrorist attacks. What is happening is horrific.

I'm not going to get into the whole history because of course what has happened to the Palestinians is horrible and of course the Israeli gov't has done horrible things. But the reason this has gone on so long is because many many groups of people want all Jews dead. They simply don't want them to exist.

War is horrible, people lose their homes, their lands, their lives. Nothing justifies terrorism and attacks on innocent civilians.

So many people think it's ok because they think 1. Jews aren't innocent. 2. Jews aren't people worthy of being alive.

For literal millennia this has been the reality of my people, Jews. All Jews from every part of the world. We are never completely safe wherever we live. We worship under locked doors and with a police presence to protect us from people who want to hurts us. We're quiet about why we take off for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur because we never quite know who to trust with the knowledge that we're Jewish. We face microaggressions and macroaggressions all the time. My daughter was told by a kid at school "you should kill yourself for being a Jew."  My synagogue was set on fire two Halloween's ago and we're still rebuilding.

We have no homeland and no place to return to because the Nazis liquidated our people nearly 80 years ago. The countries invaded by the Nazis wiped out 35-95% of the Jews living in those countries. My husband's ancestral country, Lithuania, lost 85% of its Jews, including an entire family line of his. So when people say that we don't deserve a homeland and that we should just go back to where we came from, where is that exactly? 

This quote is STILL our reality when it comes to a place that is safe for us:
Michael Lemper: Where should be go?
Russian officer: Don't go east, that's for sure. They hate you there. I wouldn't go west either, if I were you.
(Schindler's List)

I have room and compassion and the capacity to hold space for Palestinians who have suffered terribly under the occupation and the Israeli government. I really do. But for once, I just want y'all to think about what we've been through, what we continue to go through all the time. And speak up on our behalf, too. 

I'm a Jew and I am proud of that, but I live a cautious life along with the rest of the Jews in this world. We've been on the brink of near annihilation for thousands of years and yet we're still here. Hamas would be wise to remember that. Hamas fucked with the wrong people. 

**Mods, do what you have to if you feel the need to ban me, but I'm done playing both sides of this conflict. I'm standing for my people first. 

[dulcemariamar]

When Russia invaded Ukraine there were so many protests around the world. Support has waned but the initial months they had so much support from around the world.

And then the news from Sydney comes out and other cities too where people are celebrating and are saying just the most vile things. It is just horrific.

And what is the plan of Hamas? Is it just a suicide mission where they are just going to take out as many people as they can? Do they expect other groups/countries to join their fight? I saw some fighting took place today on the border of Lebanon.

[shopgirl07]

AJL, there’s no reason you should be banned. You’re speaking the truth of your lived experience. Hamas is a terrorist organization, the atrocities they’re carrying out are unimaginable, unspeakable and horrific. They don’t represent the Palestinian people, they represent evil.

[Saudade]

AJL, I’m so sorry. Idk why you would be banned. Your feelings and experiences are absolutely valid. As an atheist I can’t understand it but I’ve always felt strongly about religious people being able to worship how they want and being safe to do so. My heart goes out to you

[Velar Fricative]

I just watched Biden’s speech. He minced no words in his condemnation of the attacks. But to think, in 13 months we might just elect a failed leader whose solution to these attacks is to…enact a Muslim ban.

There are now 14 confirmed U.S. citizens dead in the attacks, and he confirmed there are American hostages (didn’t say how many).

I haven’t really known what to say since everything started. All I feel is Palestinians don’t deserve to live in open-air prisons as Gaza is, and both Palestinians and Israelis deserve to live in peace. We can argue about governmental policies forever, but even if I believe Netanyahu’s policies are profoundly unhelpful in the quest for peace (and I believe they are), that doesn’t mean Israeli civilians deserve to be killed. Their country was attacked, plain and simple. Like, I can say US policies in the Middle East pre-9/11 were disastrous and we can’t be surprised by reactions of residents in many countries there, but we didn’t deserve 9/11. We can point to previous conflicts and bad policy decisions but “they started it first” is never an excuse. The cycle of violence would never end.

Finally, I live in the city/metro area that houses the most Jewish residents outside of Israel. So much of traditional New York culture is Jewish culture. And yet, anti-Semitism is rising even here. So even though the plight of Palestinian refugees should not be ignored and a solution has been badly needed since before my lifetime, I’m also struck by wondering, well…where exactly is safe for Jewish people right now?

[shauni27]

Velar Fricative thank you for putting into words how I have been feeling.

[pixy0stix]

No bannings are happening, and I'm not sure why that would even come up.

[bcv513]

Thank you AJL , for putting what I've been thinking into words. This goes so much deeper than the last few days. The fact is that Jews have never had a safe place to live. Never. If I meet someone with my maiden name, I know they are a direct descendent of my grandfather and his brothers. Why do I know that? Because everyone else was killed for being Jewish. We were also Lithuanian Jews, who were thrown out of there, sent to the camps, then sent to Israel so Europe didn't have to deal with them. Then they got sent to South America until the US would take them. My grandfather lost his entire family except for two brothers. My great-uncle never wore a short sleeved shirt so no one could see his tattoo. My dad and his brother were taught to assimilate. To this day my dad begs me to straighten my hair instead of wearing it curly. I went to a major local fair yesterday and was in line at the booth to buy knishes and kugel. A man walking by said he could see my horns. Hamas is a terrorist organization. They are not Palestinian and do not speak for Palestinians. The vast majority of people living in the region just want to co-exist. I get that.

[AJL]

Oct 10, 2023 14:22:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

No bannings are happening, and I'm not sure why that would even come up.

because I'm angry and hurt and worried. it is what it is.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 10, 2023 14:49:54 GMT -5 AJL said:

Oct 10, 2023 14:22:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

No bannings are happening, and I'm not sure why that would even come up.

because I'm angry and hurt and worried. it is what it is.

Small consolation, but ((hugs)) friend.

[goldengirlz]

@@@

Some of you might have gotten emails about this from your children’s schools (I did) but just FYI that the Hamas propaganda videos are popping up online.

The video of the unconscious woman who was paraded undressed through the streets popped up on this forum in an ad spot. I don’t know how or why. But monitor your kids’ social media use these next few days.

[sonrisa]

Thank you for the warning, goldengirlz

[pixy0stix]

Oct 10, 2023 15:11:51 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

The video of the unconscious woman who was paraded undressed through the streets popped up on this forum in an ad spot. I don’t know how or why. But monitor your kids’ social media use these next few days.

I'm asking on the support board how we can report these immediately. I haven't seen anything like that pop up for me.

ETA: I stickied the link to the forum to report the ads.

[dulcemariamar]

Oct 10, 2023 15:11:51 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

@@@

Some of you might have gotten emails about this from your children’s schools (I did) but just FYI that the Hamas propaganda videos are popping up online.

The video of the unconscious woman who was paraded undressed through the streets popped up on this forum in an ad spot. I don’t know how or why. But monitor your kids’ social media use these next few days.

Thanks for sharing this information.

More difficult conversations to have with our kids.

[bronxgirl]

Oct 10, 2023 13:30:50 GMT -5 AJL said:

Oct 10, 2023 12:21:50 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Thank you, AJL . I don't understand this both-sidesing blatant terrorist attacks. What is happening is horrific.

I'm not going to get into the whole history because of course what has happened to the Palestinians is horrible and of course the Israeli gov't has done horrible things. But the reason this has gone on so long is because many many groups of people want all Jews dead. They simply don't want them to exist.

War is horrible, people lose their homes, their lands, their lives. Nothing justifies terrorism and attacks on innocent civilians.

So many people think it's ok because they think 1. Jews aren't innocent. 2. Jews aren't people worthy of being alive.

For literal millennia this has been the reality of my people, Jews. All Jews from every part of the world. We are never completely safe wherever we live. We worship under locked doors and with a police presence to protect us from people who want to hurts us. We're quiet about why we take off for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur because we never quite know who to trust with the knowledge that we're Jewish. We face microaggressions and macroaggressions all the time. My daughter was told by a kid at school "you should kill yourself for being a Jew."  My synagogue was set on fire two Halloween's ago and we're still rebuilding.

We have no homeland and no place to return to because the Nazis liquidated our people nearly 80 years ago. The countries invaded by the Nazis wiped out 35-95% of the Jews living in those countries. My husband's ancestral country, Lithuania, lost 85% of its Jews, including an entire family line of his. So when people say that we don't deserve a homeland and that we should just go back to where we came from, where is that exactly? 

This quote is STILL our reality when it comes to a place that is safe for us:
Michael Lemper: Where should be go?
Russian officer: Don't go east, that's for sure. They hate you there. I wouldn't go west either, if I were you.
(Schindler's List)

I have room and compassion and the capacity to hold space for Palestinians who have suffered terribly under the occupation and the Israeli government. I really do. But for once, I just want y'all to think about what we've been through, what we continue to go through all the time. And speak up on our behalf, too. 

I'm a Jew and I am proud of that, but I live a cautious life along with the rest of the Jews in this world. We've been on the brink of near annihilation for thousands of years and yet we're still here. Hamas would be wise to remember that. Hamas fucked with the wrong people. 

**Mods, do what you have to if you feel the need to ban me, but I'm done playing both sides of this conflict. I'm standing for my people first. 

Thank you so much for this post. You've said it all so well. Being Jewish can be scary at times and it's okay to offer someone compassion without following it up with whataboutism.

[bronxgirl]

Can I take a moment to ask fellow Jewish posters how you're holding up? I do well when I'm distracted, but the rest of the time I feel anxious and tearful. I'm terrified for Israeli and Palestinian civilians, but also for Jews all over the world. Yesterday in NY there was a huge hate rally in Times Square. Luckily there was no school yesterday because I would be so scared for my 13 year old Jewish daughter to have to walk through that. As many previous posters have noted, Jews have never been truly safe and I fear we never will be.

[fryjack2]

Oct 10, 2023 11:57:16 GMT -5 AJL said:

The situation going on right now is not complicated. This is Hamas terrorizing Israel. Israelis hiding in a bomb shelter were murdered by Hamas militants. Israelis waiting at a bus stop where gunned down by Hamas militants. A grandmother was murdered on her own Facebook live by Hamas militants. Women are being raped by and murdered by Hamas militants. Babies and children are being kidnapped and murdered by Hamas militants. Hamas has kidnapped Israelis, taken them to Gaza, and have publicly stated they will being to execute them and air it live. Hamas' entire goal is destroy Israel through whatever means necessary and that is what they trying to do. 

Hamas is not Palestine. Hamas is endangering the lives of Palestinians, too. It always has. 

Come at me with all your flames and torches and whatever, but I'm not budging from this. I have spent the last four days watching untold amounts of media from all over the world and the truth is what you're seeing here in the U.S. is so sanitized and being presented as if this is an escalation of a decade long resistance of the occupation. It is not. THIS IS DIFFERENT. 

Have you asked any Palestinians if they agree with this? Because I can tell you that many would argue that IT IS a response to decades of colonization, stolen land, the ethnic cleansing of their people, and being subjected to inhumane conditions.  

The media is incredibly biased. It perpetuates Arab, Muslim, and Palestinian hate constantly and right now is no exception.

My kids own school's messaging was problematic and I almost didn't send them to school today because I was worried for their safety.  

[AJL]

Oct 10, 2023 18:08:24 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Oct 10, 2023 11:57:16 GMT -5 AJL said:

The situation going on right now is not complicated. This is Hamas terrorizing Israel. Israelis hiding in a bomb shelter were murdered by Hamas militants. Israelis waiting at a bus stop were gunned down by Hamas militants. A grandmother was murdered on her own Facebook live by Hamas militants. Women are being raped by and murdered by Hamas militants. Babies and children are being kidnapped and murdered by Hamas militants. Hamas has kidnapped Israelis, taken them to Gaza, and have publicly stated they will being to execute them and air it live. Hamas' entire goal is destroy Israel through whatever means necessary and that is what they trying to do. 

Hamas is not Palestine. Hamas is endangering the lives of Palestinians, too. It always has. 

Come at me with all your flames and torches and whatever, but I'm not budging from this. I have spent the last four days watching untold amounts of media from all over the world and the truth is what you're seeing here in the U.S. is so sanitized and being presented as if this is an escalation of a decade long resistance of the occupation. It is not. THIS IS DIFFERENT. 

Have you asked any Palestinians if they agree with this? Because I can tell you that many would argue that IT IS a response to decades of colonization, stolen land, the ethnic cleansing of their people, and being subjected to inhumane conditions.  

The media is incredibly biased. It perpetuates Arab, Muslim, and Palestinian hate constantly and right now is no exception.

My kids own school's messaging was problematic and I almost didn't send them to school today because I was worried for their safety.  

I don’t care right now. I am not in place to discuss this rationally with you.

[fryjack2]

Oct 10, 2023 13:30:50 GMT -5 AJL said:

Oct 10, 2023 12:21:50 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Thank you, AJL . I don't understand this both-sidesing blatant terrorist attacks. What is happening is horrific.

I'm not going to get into the whole history because of course what has happened to the Palestinians is horrible and of course the Israeli gov't has done horrible things. But the reason this has gone on so long is because many many groups of people want all Jews dead. They simply don't want them to exist.

War is horrible, people lose their homes, their lands, their lives. Nothing justifies terrorism and attacks on innocent civilians.

So many people think it's ok because they think 1. Jews aren't innocent. 2. Jews aren't people worthy of being alive.

For literal millennia this has been the reality of my people, Jews. All Jews from every part of the world. We are never completely safe wherever we live. We worship under locked doors and with a police presence to protect us from people who want to hurts us. We're quiet about why we take off for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur because we never quite know who to trust with the knowledge that we're Jewish. We face microaggressions and macroaggressions all the time. My daughter was told by a kid at school "you should kill yourself for being a Jew."  My synagogue was set on fire two Halloween's ago and we're still rebuilding.

We have no homeland and no place to return to because the Nazis liquidated our people nearly 80 years ago. The countries invaded by the Nazis wiped out 35-95% of the Jews living in those countries. My husband's ancestral country, Lithuania, lost 85% of its Jews, including an entire family line of his. So when people say that we don't deserve a homeland and that we should just go back to where we came from, where is that exactly? 

This quote is STILL our reality when it comes to a place that is safe for us:
Michael Lemper: Where should be go?
Russian officer: Don't go east, that's for sure. They hate you there. I wouldn't go west either, if I were you.
(Schindler's List)

I have room and compassion and the capacity to hold space for Palestinians who have suffered terribly under the occupation and the Israeli government. I really do. But for once, I just want y'all to think about what we've been through, what we continue to go through all the time. And speak up on our behalf, too. 

I'm a Jew and I am proud of that, but I live a cautious life along with the rest of the Jews in this world. We've been on the brink of near annihilation for thousands of years and yet we're still here. Hamas would be wise to remember that. Hamas fucked with the wrong people. 

**Mods, do what you have to if you feel the need to ban me, but I'm done playing both sides of this conflict. I'm standing for my people first. 

I swear I'm not picking on you. I'm just responding to posts that happen to be written by you. you.

Switch out some words bolded here to include Muslim, Arab, Palestinian and I could have written it. 

I never know who to trust to tell I am Palestinian or a former Muslim.

My family has a homeland that they have lived in for centuries that they are not allowed to return to- Palestine. 

For once, I just want ya'll to think about what Palestinians have been through, what we continue to go through all the time. And speak up on our behalf, too.  ---This would be easier if people actually knew what happens in Palestine and it wasn't squashed by the media or everything wasn't labeled anti-Israel or anti-semitic.--- 

I'm a Palestinian and proud of that, but I live a cautious life along with the rest if Palestinians in the world.  Israel has tried to extinguish our existence for decades (even calling for it two days ago) yet we are still here.  Fucked with the wrong people is I guess also applicable but not a phase I would use. I would say that Palestinians are resilient and seem to be strong enough to have hope of their land being returned. 

I do not condone Hamas or its actions.  Israel is calling for the destruction of all Palestinians and enacting actions to accomplish that. No water, electricity, bombing civilians, no medical care, bombing the only exits out of Gaza.  Its infuriating that the world seems to want to continue to ignore that and only focus on the actions of Hamas. 

[fryjack2]

Wow. Ok. I care that innocent people in both countries are being murdered and am having a rationale conversation.

You just want to post your thoughts and opinions and then try to silence and minimize mine?

So typical of what the world as a whole is doing right now to Palestinians. And a reason so many people I know are not sending their children to school- because of the hate being projected towards them as well right now. 

[Bad Dingo]

There is no getting around the fact that Hamas controls Gaza. Why not extend your anger to the terrorist group that caused this? Or the countries like Iran and Russia that paid for their weapons of war? Israel has a right to defend themselves, and unfortunately, Hamas is deeply embedded in Gaza.

My family lived for generations in Europe before they were virtually wiped out by the nazis and nazi sympathizers. I have no illusions that we will get back that land that my family lived on and was stolen from them. It was war. It was horrible.

Right now I'm horrified by innocent families being murdered. By kids (yes, I'm old enough that I consider 20 YOs kids) being massacred by the hundreds at a concert.

I don't feel safe as a Jew. I don't tell people I'm Jewish. My family has been planning a trip to Egypt. An Egyptian policeman on Sunday attacked Israeli tourists in Alexandria, killing 2. On the travel message boards every keeps saying 'it's perfectly safe to travel as long as you don't "look" Jewish'. I wish that you could see that we have and still are experiencing the same things.

[AJL]

Oct 10, 2023 18:31:49 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Wow. Ok. I care that innocent people in both countries are being murdered and am having a rationale conversation.

You just want to post your thoughts and opinions and then try to silence and minimize mine?

So typical of what the world as a whole is doing right now to Palestinians. And a reason so many people I know are not sending their children to school- because of the hate being projected towards them as well right now. 

I'm not silencing you or minimizing your opinions. I said that I can not have a rational conversation about this. Frankly that is far more mature than trying to discuss this matter when I feel raw and emotional and frayed. You have had the opportunity to speak your thoughts, experience, and opinions every time Israel does oppressor shit (which they have done for nearly 80 years. WHICH I HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED AND CONDEMNED) 

But for once, JUST ONCE, can the Jews on this board gets some goddamn recognition that this is incredibly scary, painful, and difficult? You are essentially "All Lives Matter"-ing us and it's exhausting. We're trying not to look like the bad guy but our people are being beheaded. Our people are being summarily executed. Our people are being raped. By Hamas. 

I'm not your friend. I don't owe you a reasonable discussion on this issue. So, yes, I don't really care right now because I can't be rational about this discussion. 

[sonrisa]

Oct 10, 2023 18:52:30 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

There is no getting around the fact that Hamas controls Gaza. Why not extend your anger to the terrorist group that caused this? Or the countries like Iran and Russia that paid for their weapons of war?
…
I wish that you could see that we have and still are experiencing the same things.

who is this addressed to?

[sonrisa]

Oct 10, 2023 18:58:38 GMT -5 AJL said:

But for once, JUST ONCE, can the Jews on this board gets some goddamn recognition that this is incredibly scary, painful, and difficult?
 

Do you feel that this is not being recognized? I’m so sorry. I think everyone on here deeply feels this is a scary, painful and difficult situation.

[AJL]

Oct 10, 2023 19:04:15 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Oct 10, 2023 18:58:38 GMT -5 AJL said:

 

But for once, JUST ONCE, can the Jews on this board gets some goddamn recognition that this is incredibly scary, painful, and difficult?
 

Do you feel that this is not being recognized? I’m so sorry. I think everyone on here deeply feels this is a scary, painful and difficult yet situation.

Yes, I absolutely feel like us Jews are do not receive the same empathy because Israel is the aggressor. I wouldn't have said something id I didn't feel that way. I'm not going to justify how I feel to you or fryjack or anyone else. I said what I said.

Good night to you all. I'm exciting this thread. Do not quote me. Do not tag me.

[Bad Dingo]

Oct 10, 2023 18:59:36 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Oct 10, 2023 18:52:30 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

There is no getting around the fact that Hamas controls Gaza. Why not extend your anger to the terrorist group that caused this? Or the countries like Iran and Russia that paid for their weapons of war?
…
I wish that you could see that we have and still are experiencing the same things.

who is this addressed to?

Sorry, I was speaking to Fryjack. I appreciate what her family has been through and continues to experience. I wish this conversation didn't have to devolve into a Jews vs Arabs argument because this is a terrorists are trying to annihilate the Jewish people and using Palestinians as pawns situation (IMHO).

I'm going to step away because I'm just some rando who is heart broken for everyone who is suffering right now and not interested in debating whether innocent people deserve to die because shitty power hungry rulers decide they aren't worthy of living or because they aren't truly innocent enough because they are Israeli or Jewish.