Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (@ mentions)

[pixy0stix]

As a reminder - X/Twitter posts are highly suspect at this juncture. Posts without context, links, or support have always been and should always be verified.

[Deleted]

Absolutely sickening.


Imagine 6000 bombs in an area this size. Where currently 2 million people are with no means to get out. With 1 million under the age of 15.

[fryjack2]

christy082, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean for you to remove links. Help of any kind to any victims is never not ok.

I just meant be a little sensitive and maybe post links that help the other people suffering in a post about them.

Please don’t stop participating.

[christy082]

fryjack2 no need to apologize. I was completely insensitive, though it wasn't my intent.

[Deleted]

Link: www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine

[Bad Dingo]

Oct 12, 2023 12:46:15 GMT -5 @iceblink said:

Link: www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine

This is all so horrific. I truly don't understand what Hamas' goal was, they had to have known that Israel would have an outsized response to the murder and kidnapping of citizens.


I hope that at the very least a cease fire is ordered so that aid can get in to Palestinians and those who want to leave are able.  Suffering must be minimized so that cooler heads can prevail and hopefully some sort of peace can be reached.

Is the ADL still considered a reputable source?  Regarding the books being offered in the tweet above: www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/boycott-divestment-and-sanctions-campaign-bds

[AJL]

Oct 12, 2023 12:59:51 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Oct 12, 2023 12:46:15 GMT -5 @iceblink said:

Link: www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine

This is all so horrific. I truly don't understand what Hamas' goal was, they had to have known that Israel would have an outsized response to the murder and kidnapping of citizens.



I hope that at the very least a cease fire is ordered so that aid can get in to Palestinians and those who want to leave are able.  Suffering must be minimized so that cooler heads can prevail and hopefully some sort of peace can be reached.

Is the ADL still considered a reputable source?  Regarding the books being offered in the tweet above: www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/boycott-divestment-and-sanctions-campaign-bds

Probably not in this thread.

[Susie]

It sounds like no aid is reaching Gaza via Egypt, and reports are mixed re: whether Egypt has closed the Rafah crossing.  

Reporting has not closed:

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-war-updates-hamas/#link-6CKVICMZDJBBNJA4VDTJE4B65Y

www.reuters.com/world/egypt-facilitating-deliveries-aid-sinai-gaza-2023-10-12/#:~:text=CAIRO%2C%20Oct%2012%20(Reuters),Israeli%20bombardments%20around%20the%20border

Reporting has closed:
www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-war-updates-hamas/#link-B6FQUV3GN5DUNGA5FVWVOT6RXQ

I don't know that relief agencies have much choice but to concentrate aid in Egypt and hope for access, but it seems like Egypt's primary concern at this point is preventing spillover of the conflict, which will not motivate them to assist.  I would think the most helpful thing at this point would be commitment to granting asylum and resources to Palestinian refugees to alleviate Egypt's concerns and expedite access, but in the world's rush to back Israel, it's hard to imagine how to get there.

[goldengirlz]

Oct 12, 2023 12:59:51 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

Oct 12, 2023 12:46:15 GMT -5 @iceblink said:

Link: www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine

This is all so horrific. I truly don't understand what Hamas' goal was, they had to have known that Israel would have an outsized response to the murder and kidnapping of citizens.


I hope that at the very least a cease fire is ordered so that aid can get in to Palestinians and those who want to leave are able.  Suffering must be minimized so that cooler heads can prevail and hopefully some sort of peace can be reached.

Is the ADL still considered a reputable source?  Regarding the books being offered in the tweet above: www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/boycott-divestment-and-sanctions-campaign-bds

That is their goal. They do not care about the Palestinian people except as pawns. All they care about is destroying Israel and turning public opinion against them. They do not want peace talks.

www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-goals.html

ETA: And Netanyahu is like having Trump in charge. He’s extremely right-wing, and his approval rating among Israelis before this happened was only 38%. He’s not the person who’s going to urge restraint.

[fryjack2]

Oct 12, 2023 13:01:03 GMT -5 AJL said:

Oct 12, 2023 12:59:51 GMT -5 Bad Dingo said:

This is all so horrific. I truly don't understand what Hamas' goal was, they had to have known that Israel would have an outsized response to the murder and kidnapping of citizens.



I hope that at the very least a cease fire is ordered so that aid can get in to Palestinians and those who want to leave are able.  Suffering must be minimized so that cooler heads can prevail and hopefully some sort of peace can be reached.

Is the ADL still considered a reputable source?  Regarding the books being offered in the tweet above: www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/boycott-divestment-and-sanctions-campaign-bds

Probably not in this thread.

What are you saying, and what do you mean, “probably not in this thread?”

A legitimate source is a legitimate source in any thread.

[marlenabell]

Oct 12, 2023 13:22:39 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

Oct 12, 2023 13:01:03 GMT -5 AJL said:

Probably not in this thread.

What are you saying, and what do you mean, “probably not in this thread?”

A legitimate source is a legitimate source in any thread.

[

I *think* what she’s saying is that since the ADL has a pro-Jewish
slant , it will be poo pooed by all the Palestinian support in a thread you started! I get that you’re impacted by this, but the large majority of Gaza Palestinians support Hamas.

Israel hasn’t owned or claimed control of Gaza since 2005. Giving them land, aid etc will not change the basic fact that HAMAS wants to kill all Jews. Israel doesn’t want to kill all Muslims. What is so hard to understand about this ?

I’m going to repost this.
If you look at it, around 80% of Gazans support violence and killing Jews. Yes, it sucks for the 20% but how are
You going to parce that out? Also, if the 20% who don’t support it don’t want to be in the crossfire - there are safe places for them to go in the meantime.


The link below is a compilation based on a multitude of reports by the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research (PPCSR) which is near the only reliable source for sentiment analysis in the area. Stats by various other organisations are in there too. All of the stats are sourced.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinians-attitudes-about-terrorism

[rikki]

Oct 12, 2023 12:26:05 GMT -5 @iceblink said:

Absolutely sickening.


Imagine 6000 bombs in an area this size. Where currently 2 million people are with no means to get out. With 1 million under the age of 15.

You do realize Hamas claims they fired 5,000 rockets to Israel in a span of 20 minutes this past weekend. The true number is probably fewer, but still in the thousands. Thousands in 20 minutes. Yet people don’t think a response is warranted. Why does every other nation get to protect itself?

My heart hurts for innocent Palestinians, really. But, I deeply hurt for my people, who have no other homeland, who have been the victims of pogroms, genocides, and other atrocities for centuries, who have always been expected to be the bigger people, to allow whatever crap is thrown their way, to be survivors, to back down, to give up land. What other counties have won land in wars and then just given it back? Time after time more is expected from us. Peace will never be achieved because terrorists want nothing but the complete annihilation of Israel and Jews. This will not stop even if Israel gave up all control of the Palestinian Territories- which would certainly also equal more deaths. More than 50% of people in Gaza support or have favorable views of Hamas. It isn’t a tiny fraction.

Also, this is nothing new. When I lived in Israel the first time, a Hamas Palestinian suicide bomber blew up a pizza place just a few miles from where I was. When I was back 5 years later, rockets rained down from Gaza, despite Israel withdrawing from Gaza and closing almost every checkpoint in the West Bank the year before. There is no way that Hamas did not 100% anticipate and know this would be the reaction and response when they crossed the border. They decided to proceed anyway.

I’m sitting here reflecting and thinking how thankful I am that my concentration camp survivor grandmother, who passed last week, doesn’t have to see this news. Her heart wouldn’t have been able to handle it.

I’ll end with acknowledgment of my personal bias and lens and how it may have an impact on my views. But why is it ok for my innocent people to be attacked, but not anyone else’s?

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2023 13:49:43 GMT -5 marlenabell said:

If you look at it, around 80% of Gazans support violence and killing Jews. Yes, it sucks for the 20% but how are
You going to parce that out? Also, if the 20% who don’t support it don’t want to be in the crossfire - there are safe places for them to go in the

Wooooow

[icedcoffee]

rikki , re: "I’m sitting here reflecting and thinking how thankful I am that my concentration camp survivor grandmother, who passed last week, doesn’t have to see this news. Her heart wouldn’t have been able to handle it."

I am so sorry for your loss. I called my grandmother after Russia started the war with Ukraine and her response was "I think I have lived too long to have to live through this again".  

[laladypoet]

they are literally stranded there. I'm curious where you think they could go.

[Susie]

Oct 12, 2023 13:49:43 GMT -5 marlenabell said:

I’m going to repost this.
If you look at it, around 80% of Gazans support violence and killing Jews. Yes, it sucks for the 20% but how are
You going to parce that out? Also, if the 20% who don’t support it don’t want to be in the crossfire - there are safe places for them to go in the meantime.

where?

[karinothing]

marlenabell, where did you get that 80% number? 80% of the population of Gaza isn't even over the age of 18. In fact, almost 44% of the population is under the age of 14. Moreover, who would be doing accurate polling over there? Also, where are the safe places for folks to go if they don't want to be in the crossfire?

[gretchenindisguise]

Oct 12, 2023 13:52:57 GMT -5 rikki said:

Oct 12, 2023 12:26:05 GMT -5 @iceblink said:

Absolutely sickening.


Imagine 6000 bombs in an area this size. Where currently 2 million people are with no means to get out. With 1 million under the age of 15.

You do realize Hamas claims they fired 5,000 rockets to Israel in a span of 20 minutes this past weekend. The true number is probably fewer, but still in the thousands. Thousands in 20 minutes. Yet people don’t think a response is warranted. Why does every other nation get to protect itself?

My heart hurts for innocent Palestinians, really. But, I deeply hurt for my people, who have no other homeland, who have been the victims of pogroms, genocides, and other atrocities for centuries, who have always been expected to be the bigger people, to allow whatever crap is thrown their way, to be survivors, to back down, to give up land. What other counties have won land in wars and then just given it back? Time after time more is expected from us. Peace will never be achieved because terrorists want nothing but the complete annihilation of Israel and Jews. This will not stop even if Israel gave up all control of the Palestinian Territories- which would certainly also equal more deaths. More than 50% of people in Gaza support or have favorable views of Hamas. It isn’t a tiny fraction.

Also, this is nothing new. When I lived in Israel the first time, a Hamas Palestinian suicide bomber blew up a pizza place just a few miles from where I was. When I was back 5 years later, rockets rained down from Gaza, despite Israel withdrawing from Gaza and closing almost every checkpoint in the West Bank the year before. There is no way that Hamas did not 100% anticipate and know this would be the reaction and response when they crossed the border. They decided to proceed anyway.

I’m sitting here reflecting and thinking how thankful I am that my concentration camp survivor grandmother, who passed last week, doesn’t have to see this news. Her heart wouldn’t have been able to handle it.

I’ll end with acknowledgment of my personal bias and lens and how it may have an impact on my views. But why is it ok for my innocent people to be attacked, but not anyone else’s?

I have seen nobody in this thread or any others assert this. 

Every single person has condemned the violence against Israel by Hamas. 

I think every single person who has posted thus far believes that it's not ok for anybody's innocent people to be attacked.

The bias appears to be who is innocent.

[icedcoffee]

Oct 12, 2023 14:19:12 GMT -5 karinothing said:

marlenabell , where did you get that 80% number? 80% of the population of Gaza isn't even over the age of 18. In fact, almost 44% of the population is under the age of 14. Moreover, who would be doing accurate polling over there? Also, where are the safe places for folks to go if they don't want to be in the crossfire?

She linked the survey in her post.

[fryjack2]

I knew what AJL meant. It was a shitty comment and I was pointing out that it was a shitty comment.

And wow to so many comments in here since then. I have never once justified the killing of innocent Israelis, in fact, I’ve condemned it numerous times. yet here are people justifying the killing of innocent Palestinians because it’s only “20%.” And no. The vast majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas. Nice attempt to continue to dehumanize Palestinians.

Wow.

And Gaza is controlled by Israel. The may not physically be in the land, but they control every aspect of life there so get your own facts straight in saying the people of Gaza have been free for years.

Unless you live in Gaza, have family there, or are in contact with civilians there, maybe don’t speak for them and report that they support Hamas and are free.

[laladypoet]

right but...is that an unbiased source?

[pixy0stix]

Oct 12, 2023 13:49:43 GMT -5 marlenabell said:

Oct 12, 2023 13:22:39 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

What are you saying, and what do you mean, “probably not in this thread?”

A legitimate source is a legitimate source in any thread.

[

I *think* what she’s saying is that since the ADL has a pro-Jewish
slant , it will be poo pooed by all the Palestinian support in a thread you started! I get that you’re impacted by this, but the large majority of Gaza Palestinians support Hamas.

Israel hasn’t owned or claimed control of Gaza since 2005. Giving them land, aid etc will not change the basic fact that HAMAS wants to kill all Jews. Israel doesn’t want to kill all Muslims. What is so hard to understand about this ?

I’m going to repost this.
If you look at it, around 80% of Gazans support violence and killing Jews. Yes, it sucks for the 20% but how are
You going to parce that out? Also, if the 20% who don’t support it don’t want to be in the crossfire - there are safe places for them to go in the meantime.


The link below is a compilation based on a multitude of reports by the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research (PPCSR) which is near the only reliable source for sentiment analysis in the area. Stats by various other organisations are in there too. All of the stats are sourced.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinians-attitudes-about-terrorism

And you realize that nearly half of the Gaza population is under 18. Do they deserve to die because their parents support a cause?

www.businessinsider.in/international/news/in-gaza-where-nearly-half-of-the-population-is-under-18-a-childrens-rights-crisis-is-unfolding/articleshow/104333904.cms

The very narrow scope of this conversation is that Israel is going to wipe Gaza off the face of this earth.

When the Israeli defense minister announced a full siege on Gaza, he said that Israel is fighting, quote, "human animals that will be dealt with accordingly."

www.npr.org/2023/10/09/1204724349/the-latest-on-israels-response-to-the-surprise-attack-by-hamas-over-the-weekend

So. Are you in support of over a million children dying because their parents may support a terrorist group?

AND I provided links saying that Israel is deliberately targeting the safe spaces. There is nowhere for people to go.

[karinothing]

Oct 12, 2023 14:21:06 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Oct 12, 2023 14:19:12 GMT -5 karinothing said:

marlenabell , where did you get that 80% number? 80% of the population of Gaza isn't even over the age of 18. In fact, almost 44% of the population is under the age of 14. Moreover, who would be doing accurate polling over there? Also, where are the safe places for folks to go if they don't want to be in the crossfire?

She linked the survey in her post.

Oh sorry, I completely missed that! I am still taking issue with the data collection and the vast majority of those polls are significantly out of date. 

[fryjack2]

Oct 12, 2023 14:16:19 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

they are literally stranded there. I'm curious where you think they could go.

They want them all out, but really dead is best so that Israel can have that land, too.

The Israeli government have said it. Repeatedly.

[AJL]

Oct 12, 2023 14:23:45 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

I knew what AJL meant. It was a shitty comment and I was pointing out that it was a shitty comment.

And wow to so many comments in here since then. I have never once justified the killing of innocent Israelis, in fact, I’ve condemned it numerous times. yet here are people justifying the killing of innocent Palestinians because it’s only “20%.” And no. The vast majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas. Nice attempt to continue to dehumanize Palestinians.

Wow.

And Gaza is controlled by Israel. The may not physically be in the land, but they control every aspect of life there so get your own facts straight in saying the people of Gaza have been free for years.

Unless you live in Gaza, have family there, or are in contact with civilians there, maybe don’t speak for them and report that they support Hamas and are free.

It wasn’t a shitty comment. It was an observation based on the sentiments being expressed. The ADL is unapologetically pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Maybe it is a legitimate source but it is a heavily biased source.

[pixy0stix]

Oct 12, 2023 14:26:40 GMT -5 AJL said:

Oct 12, 2023 14:23:45 GMT -5 fryjack2 said:

I knew what AJL meant. It was a shitty comment and I was pointing out that it was a shitty comment.

And wow to so many comments in here since then. I have never once justified the killing of innocent Israelis, in fact, I’ve condemned it numerous times. yet here are people justifying the killing of innocent Palestinians because it’s only “20%.” And no. The vast majority of Palestinians do not support Hamas. Nice attempt to continue to dehumanize Palestinians.

Wow.

And Gaza is controlled by Israel. The may not physically be in the land, but they control every aspect of life there so get your own facts straight in saying the people of Gaza have been free for years.

Unless you live in Gaza, have family there, or are in contact with civilians there, maybe don’t speak for them and report that they support Hamas and are free.

It wasn’t a shitty comment. It was an observation based on the sentiments being expressed. The ADL is unapologetically pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Maybe it is a legitimate source but it is a heavily biased source.

It was shitty. She was asking, and you could have responded as above with the further explanation but chose not to.

[AJL]

Oct 12, 2023 14:30:54 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 12, 2023 14:26:40 GMT -5 AJL said:

It wasn’t a shitty comment. It was an observation based on the sentiments being expressed. The ADL is unapologetically pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Maybe it is a legitimate source but it is a heavily biased source.

It was shitty. She was asking, and you could have responded as above with the further explanation but chose not to.

I disagree.

[rikki]

Oct 12, 2023 14:20:43 GMT -5 gretchenindisguise said:

Oct 12, 2023 13:52:57 GMT -5 rikki said:

You do realize Hamas claims they fired 5,000 rockets to Israel in a span of 20 minutes this past weekend. The true number is probably fewer, but still in the thousands. Thousands in 20 minutes. Yet people don’t think a response is warranted. Why does every other nation get to protect itself?

My heart hurts for innocent Palestinians, really. But, I deeply hurt for my people, who have no other homeland, who have been the victims of pogroms, genocides, and other atrocities for centuries, who have always been expected to be the bigger people, to allow whatever crap is thrown their way, to be survivors, to back down, to give up land. What other counties have won land in wars and then just given it back? Time after time more is expected from us. Peace will never be achieved because terrorists want nothing but the complete annihilation of Israel and Jews. This will not stop even if Israel gave up all control of the Palestinian Territories- which would certainly also equal more deaths. More than 50% of people in Gaza support or have favorable views of Hamas. It isn’t a tiny fraction.

Also, this is nothing new. When I lived in Israel the first time, a Hamas Palestinian suicide bomber blew up a pizza place just a few miles from where I was. When I was back 5 years later, rockets rained down from Gaza, despite Israel withdrawing from Gaza and closing almost every checkpoint in the West Bank the year before. There is no way that Hamas did not 100% anticipate and know this would be the reaction and response when they crossed the border. They decided to proceed anyway.

I’m sitting here reflecting and thinking how thankful I am that my concentration camp survivor grandmother, who passed last week, doesn’t have to see this news. Her heart wouldn’t have been able to handle it.

I’ll end with acknowledgment of my personal bias and lens and how it may have an impact on my views. But why is it ok for my innocent people to be attacked, but not anyone else’s?

I have seen nobody in this thread or any others assert this. 

Every single person has condemned the violence against Israel by Hamas. 

I think every single person who has posted thus far believes that it's not ok for anybody's innocent people to be attacked.

The bias appears to be who is innocent.

I’ll admit I’m triggered. I read a lot of this to be thinly veiled antisemitism. Some not even veiled. None from
fryjack, who I respect and appreciate all she shares.

I know I’m in a sensitive place having family and friends there and having lived there during what was less than a peaceful time. I saw some of this firsthand. It’s not easy.

I would love to know what else people think Israel should do in response? Allow another Holocaust? I don’t really feel like there is any other real response that will have any impact, as much as I hate this one. And this one won’t change anything, honestly though, so maybe I’m just kidding myself.

[Saudade]

marlenabell, you do realize that people living in Gaza CANNOT leave Gaza? Right?

[fryjack2]

For the millionth time. I am not anti the existence of Israel or have ill will towards Jewish people.

I take issue with Israel violently continuing to build settlements on Palestinian land and those who move there not caring that they are on stolen land and Israel treating those in occupied territories they way it does and crying foul when violence is used against them and justifying the violence they perpetuate on innocent Palestinians.

Why is the West Bank under even more Israeli restrictions right now? If it’s just Hamas in Gaza they have issue with?

Why are we back to pointing fingers instead of focusing on the humanitarian crisis? Because it’s just Palestinian “animals” whose lives don’t matter to the world. Whether it’s 100% or 20%.

I can’t even believe someone wrote that.

You know what the median age of people in Gaza is so young? And 1 million children will die before this is over? Because they don’t live long lives because of their living conditions. Because they lack electricity, clean water, and medical care available because Israel restricts it. People may not like that fact, but it is a fact.