@ Children today have less independence @@

[karinothing]

Oct 26, 2023 8:04:21 GMT -5 sent said:

Oct 26, 2023 7:07:17 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Honest question - Does CPS really get called on parents frequently for kids being more free range? Or is that overblown just like stories of kidnapping in the mall? We live in an area that is a mix of urban/suburban and I do see elementary students biking or walking by themselves pretty frequently. I know that it can happen re CPS but I don't think it is nearly as common as the news makes it seem.

Maybe there’s a study. All I know is that I never expected the mom who called on me. I honestly thought she was being nice when she asked how my kid was doing. She took that info and got to work and called them. So now I have no idea what a person’s intentions are.

But I do see your point comparing it to the kidnappings. Neither is probably that common but it would be horrible if the family involved is yours.

Oh yes. I didn't mean to be dismissive since I know you had that horrible situation, and I can certainly understand being cautious. I would just hope that your situation is a rarity. 

[jeaniebueller]

Oct 25, 2023 9:50:05 GMT -5 abs said:

Agreed scheduling gets a bad rap. DD is much happier when she’s involved in something. It also goes to back to the independence of deciding what to do and manage her time appropriately. All good life skills.

If she has too much free time she gets anti social and depressed. It’s a balance. One-two activities at a time is good and now she’s at the age where she mostly does it through school. Right now it’s band and robotics.

I agree with this and its very kid dependent too. my youngest is very scheduled, but she is very 'busy' in general and is very responsible for her age, i have zero concerns about her ability to take care of her own business in the future as an adult. I feel like the presence of social media and electronics is FAR more detrimental to our kids' development and mental health and independence than being overscheduled. Tiktok, IG, etc. is all horrible for kid's creative development and self esteem. A lot of them don't know how to do anything but stare at a screen. 

[wanderingback]

Oct 26, 2023 8:24:47 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Oct 25, 2023 9:50:05 GMT -5 abs said:

Agreed scheduling gets a bad rap. DD is much happier when she’s involved in something. It also goes to back to the independence of deciding what to do and manage her time appropriately. All good life skills.

If she has too much free time she gets anti social and depressed. It’s a balance. One-two activities at a time is good and now she’s at the age where she mostly does it through school. Right now it’s band and robotics.

I agree with this and its very kid dependent too. my youngest is very scheduled, but she is very 'busy' in general and is very responsible for her age, i have zero concerns about her ability to take care of her own business in the future as an adult. I feel like the presence of social media and electronics is FAR more detrimental to our kids' development and mental health and independence than being overscheduled. Tiktok, IG, etc. is all horrible for kid's creative development and self esteem. A lot of them don't know how to do anything but stare at a screen. 

But based on what the article is saying this decline in independence has started before screens and social media. Tik tok is very new. I guess I’m wondering do you disagree with everything in the article? I personally do think it made good points!

[Roc A Bee]

Oct 26, 2023 9:54:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 26, 2023 8:24:47 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I agree with this and its very kid dependent too. my youngest is very scheduled, but she is very 'busy' in general and is very responsible for her age, i have zero concerns about her ability to take care of her own business in the future as an adult. I feel like the presence of social media and electronics is FAR more detrimental to our kids' development and mental health and independence than being overscheduled. Tiktok, IG, etc. is all horrible for kid's creative development and self esteem. A lot of them don't know how to do anything but stare at a screen. 

But based on what the article is saying this decline in independence has started before screens and social media. Tik tok is very new. I guess I’m wondering do you disagree with everything in the article? I personally do think it made good points!

I agree. The article even said that organized sports/activities have their place. They just don’t replace the need for unorganized play that is unsupervised. So the nights your kids aren’t in an activity or in the summer when days are long, do your kids get unstructured time to play especially with other kids? That’s the importance that’s highlighted.

[icedcoffee]

Oct 26, 2023 7:07:17 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Honest question - Does CPS really get called on parents frequently for kids being more free range? Or is that overblown just like stories of kidnapping in the mall? We live in an area that is a mix of urban/suburban and I do see elementary students biking or walking by themselves pretty frequently. I know that it can happen re CPS but I don't think it is nearly as common as the news makes it seem.

I don’t think it’s overblown.

I got stopped by a teacher last week because we were walking to school at my 7 year old was pretty far ahead of me but I could still see him. She asked him where his parent is and he told her and pointed to me, but I have no doubt CPS would have been called if I wasn’t. And I live across the street from the school but until he’s the legal age of 8 he will not go alone. No way.

[fortnightlily]

Oct 26, 2023 12:38:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Oct 26, 2023 7:07:17 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Honest question - Does CPS really get called on parents frequently for kids being more free range? Or is that overblown just like stories of kidnapping in the mall? We live in an area that is a mix of urban/suburban and I do see elementary students biking or walking by themselves pretty frequently. I know that it can happen re CPS but I don't think it is nearly as common as the news makes it seem.

I don’t think it’s overblown.

I got stopped by a teacher last week because we were walking to school at my 7 year old was pretty far ahead of me but I could still see him. She asked him where his parent is and he told her and pointed to me, but I have no doubt CPS would have been called if I wasn’t. And I live across the street from the school but until he’s the legal age of 8 he will not go alone. No way.

In Maryland the legal age to be left alone - 8 - only applies to kids unattended confined to a building or car. It does NOT apply to unattended children outdoors. My elementary school lets anyone above Kindergarten age walk home at the discretion of the parent. 

There was that whole big case about it: www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/free-range-parents-cleared-in-second-neglect-case-after-children-walked-alone/2015/06/22/82283c24-188c-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html

[icedcoffee]

Oct 26, 2023 12:55:36 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Oct 26, 2023 12:38:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

I don’t think it’s overblown.

I got stopped by a teacher last week because we were walking to school at my 7 year old was pretty far ahead of me but I could still see him. She asked him where his parent is and he told her and pointed to me, but I have no doubt CPS would have been called if I wasn’t. And I live across the street from the school but until he’s the legal age of 8 he will not go alone. No way.

In Maryland the legal age to be left alone - 8 - only applies to kids unattended confined to a building or car. It does NOT apply to unattended children outdoors. My elementary school lets anyone above Kindergarten age walk home at the discretion of the parent. 

There was that whole big case about it: www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/free-range-parents-cleared-in-second-neglect-case-after-children-walked-alone/2015/06/22/82283c24-188c-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html

Oh interesting. Maybe I’ll just walk them till I die. 😂

[jeaniebueller]

Oct 26, 2023 9:54:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 26, 2023 8:24:47 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I agree with this and its very kid dependent too. my youngest is very scheduled, but she is very 'busy' in general and is very responsible for her age, i have zero concerns about her ability to take care of her own business in the future as an adult. I feel like the presence of social media and electronics is FAR more detrimental to our kids' development and mental health and independence than being overscheduled. Tiktok, IG, etc. is all horrible for kid's creative development and self esteem. A lot of them don't know how to do anything but stare at a screen. 

But based on what the article is saying this decline in independence has started before screens and social media. Tik tok is very new. I guess I’m wondering do you disagree with everything in the article? I personally do think it made good points!

I think both things can be true.  i haven't pulled the data that his studies are based on (the abstract isn't available from that link) but he's talking about the last 20 years and we have seen significant changes in the last 20 years as far as accessibility to electronics. Also, i haven't dug into the this topic much yet to look at the demographics but this idea of being overscheduled and independence seems like its a very upper class/upper middle class issue. Poor kids aren't the ones who are doing travel soccer every weekend and having ever second of their time being occupied by extra curriculars, for example. The kids who aren't overscheduled may be at home, on electronics, which is another host of issues.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Oct 26, 2023 7:07:17 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Honest question - Does CPS really get called on parents frequently for kids being more free range? Or is that overblown just like stories of kidnapping in the mall? We live in an area that is a mix of urban/suburban and I do see elementary students biking or walking by themselves pretty frequently. I know that it can happen re CPS but I don't think it is nearly as common as the news makes it seem.

Yes. I had it happen to me. R was about 10 at the time. She made arrangements to stay at a friend's house overnight and the parents picked her up bc due to scheduling issues I couldn't be home when she needed to go over. It was maybe an hr, 90mins she was alone. That Monday morning I got a call from her school that a parent had reported me for neglect. After calls from CPS and the local PD, they closed my case. 

It made me incredibly paranoid especially when the pandemic was in full swing and I was working full time outside the home (law was deemed essential and as a single solo parent, I had no choice but to work and I can't be picky about where).  Her class attendance and participation for distance learning was non-existent. I HAD to work. I had already lost one position bc her distance learning was wholly incompatible with my work. There was no other parent to help or family to help or money for a babysitter/tutor to be with her during school hours. 

[magma]

I skimmed this thread so apologies if mentioned, but a great book on this topic is Never Enough by Jennifer Wallace. I couldn’t put it down. I think it should be required reading for parents of tweens/teens.

[wawa]

Oct 25, 2023 7:21:52 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Oct 24, 2023 12:42:54 GMT -5 abs said:

I can see this.

The article talked a lot about education but one thing I didn’t see mentioned is so often parents want to jump in and immediately solve an issue with a teacher/class/friend. Kids aren’t getting a chance to address things themselves which in turn can harm their confidence and lead to anxiety that they need their parents to intervene. Obviously sometimes it’s necessary but it shouldn’t be the default.

To me the bigger problem isn’t over scheduling (that isn’t great either though) but the blind oh my kid can’t do that. About everything. They can actually really surprise you with what they can accomplish when given a chance.

this is a really good point that we have been starting to work on with S (6). Little things like "mom can you help with this?! or play this or do this for me?" and while it is usually faster and easier for us to do it for him, we are starting to do more of "why don't you try it yourself first. Then try it another way. If neither of those work, we can figure it out together." I hope that down the road this leads to more problem solving he can do independently.

It will!  Or at least, it did for me.  Though who knows, maybe it's just age.  But I started making a point of doing that with both of mine a few years ago because Sizzli did what I now jokingly refer to as T-rex arms and Shorti would just melt down if she ran into a roadblock.  Not that neither of those things happen anymore, but now at 8 and 10 they can do so many more things on their own without needing our intervention and there a few concrete things that just make both of them clearly thrilled with themselves.  like they get such a kick out of making their own food.  We keep adding new things to the list of microwave and toaster oven friendly meals and snacks they can make for themselves.  Shorti can do microwave ramen now and as far as she's concerned she's ready to live on her own. If I had a front load washer I'd have them on laundry too, but they can't reach the bottom of the drum.  Not that chores are the same as play - but it gives them a level of independnce where they don't have to go get me to derail their game, they can just figure stuff out.  They can also clean up their own messes, which means sometimes they appear in the kitchen grabbing the vinegar spray and a rag and are like, "IT'S FINE.  EVERYTHING IS FINE."  instead of getting me to tell me they made a mess.  it's SUPER suspect, but I think I neccessary part of development.  (there's a reason the furniture in the playroom (i.e. the finished basement) is my 20 year old ikea couch.

Oct 25, 2023 12:49:33 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

This has come up before - but it's also a different world when fewer adults in a given community are working full time. It's easier for kids to roam around when there's an assumption of passive supervision - i.e. if a kid gets hurt on the playground, or someone sketchy shows up, that some adult is nearby and home/available who can intervene if needed even if they aren't directly supervising.



Kids also have a LOT more media content readily available to entertain them for hours on end if they resist entertaining themselves.

this is an interesting thing, that I hadn't really thought through how lucky we are in our neighborhood. I suppose it's unusual. Our across the street neighbor is semi-retired (now drives a school bus) and immediate next door neighbor works at the school as an aid.  So they're both generally around when school is out and the kids know that. We also have another school employee down the street, AND shorti's bff who's on the other side of the park from us works at the school too.  The neighborhood is FULL of my spies.  Aka trusted adults who are generally around and can help out if somebody wipes out on the their bike or something.  (and will absolutely tattle on my kids if they get up to some shit) 

HOWEVER - re: the CPS thing - it's a double edged sword.  Because my tolerance for my kid's free ranging is not neccessarily the same as some of those mandated reporters who see us every day and are kinda nosy and are watching....and I think I know these people and trust them, but they aren't like my BFFs so, really I don't and can't trust them entirely.  I let Shorti walk to the park by herself this past april because she wanted to sit under the cherry trees and read a book, and someone (not sure who) stopped her and asked where her parents were.  She's 10. Walking 1/4 mile down a dead end road to a local park.  WTF.  

I'd love to be more free range and the only thing stopping me is that it's not enough of a social norm here and I don't want to be "that" parent. 

The reaction away from our hands off parents is interesting. I don't feel that for myself at all. Maybe the difference is that I DO remember my childhood warmly. My default setting is that being hands off was good and fun and I turned out pretty good.  Like when my mom let me do shit like load up a backpack with a sleeve of saltines and a piece of cheese and a water bottle so I could pretend to be a fucking hobbit heading off on an adventure and just walk into the woods and not come back until it got dark.  A few times I camped out there in shelters I fashioned out of sticks (which she'd ok'd ahead of time...she did keep an eye out for me coming back)  I had my own pony and would just leave and go MILES AND MILES on him. I would ride my bike to friends houses or the pool 3 miles away. I was country free range, which is a very different vibe than city free-range, but i loved being left alone to just make my shit up. We raided the tool bench and built dams and forts. I got into like...RIDCULOUS issues which my mom would have had a heart attack over if she'd witnessed (mostly climbing up onto things I coudln't immeidately figure out how to climb down from, but I never hurt myself, so winning!).  I remember people asking her when we were kids, "omg, your kids are so well behaved!  what's your secret?" and she'd answer "I ignore them."  and she was joking, but not actually.  (Her secret was ctually that we were slightly traumtized introverted people pleasers (trauma not caused by her) so we were always hyper aware of expectations and very very good in public but like...set that part aside.  She didn't create that.)  She absolutely did the 80-90s parent thing where she was pretty disengaged but i didn't feel neglected.  I knew I could always talk to her.  We're super close. I felt loved and cared for.  I have quibbles I have talked to my therapist about and now joke with my siblings over darkly, but all in all, she did good. I was just very much allowed to figure my own shit out while still generally knowing I could ask for help if needed.  Soemtimes to a fault, but better that than my BFF who at 17 couldn't take care of herself.  There was a week in high school that both her parents had to be out of town and they HIRED ME TO STAY WITH HER.  She couldn't drive or cook. I babysat my own damn BFF.

And country mouse free ranging transferred shockingly well to city mouse life when I moved to Manhattan for the summer between high school and college.  I had a rented dorm room, had a joke of an internship my uncle got me and I rode the subway and bought groceries at my little bodega in the first floor of my building and ROASTED when my AC broke just like a real new yorker.  it was a fucking delight.  

Bad things could have happened so many times. I could have fallen off my pony in the woods and never been found. I could have been assaulted in teh NYC subway. I could have broken my leg falling out of a tree or off the top of one of our forts. But like...bad things happen when you're with people too.  By the numbers being driven to soccer half an hour away in rush hour traffic is probably one of the riskiest activities a kid does. But nobody tries to avoid driving their kid places, right?  (I do kinda...but not because of that)  I dunno.  I'm rambling now so I'll stop.  It's an uphill battle as a parent not to DO ALL THE THINGS without feeling like your not doing enough and it's also an uphill battle against like...time, exhaustion, sanity to DO ALL THE THINGS and then you get to worry you're doing too much.  There's no winning in parenting apparently.

eta: also clearly I'm looking at all this through the lens of some pretty intense privilidge (I had a pony.  I had a uncle who could whip up a bullshit internship, etc) But I think most anybody who's worried about overscheduling their kid is in the same boat.

[CurlyQ284]

I think my neighborhood is a little old school. My sons almost 11, he and his friends ride their bikes about 3/4 mile through the neighborhood to get their friend to play. Everyone really seems to like that it's similar to when we grew up. The neighborhood park is behind my house and there's always kids playing unsupervised. If a kid gets hurt, the nearest adult helps. DS fell off his bike when he was around 6 or so, came home with my neighbors bandaids on him, and an ice pack. It is a fairly small neighborhood though and everyone is familiar with each other even if we don't know each other well. We know which kids belong where etc. The younger kids are given walkie talkies so they can tell parents where they are but parents of kids my son's age have learned that they leave them everywhere, and don't answer so we quit bothering with it. It is scary at times! I have anxiety but I want him to have that independence, it helps with his confidence so I just try to check myself or text the mom closest to where I think he is.

The only time CPS was called, to my knowledge, is when one of the new neighbors (maybe age 4)? Made her way past the neighborhood entrance to the busy 45 mph road and was walking along it 😬

[aprilsails]

wawa I just want to comment again (as ever) that I feel like we've lived very parallel lives. I did not have a pony, but I would cross country ski for a couple of hours after school to my aunt's house which was a couple of kilometers away, and we had an entire 50 acre forest as our lot. So yeah, we disappeared in there on the regular.

I also live in an area now which is safe (so many retirees, and our street is full of ex military, police, nurses and government types). We're in a village where you can walk ten to fifteen minutes to anywhere (arena, community centre, library, grocery, convenience store, restaurants, etc). There are a lot of free range kids here and I have never thought to be worried about my kids on the street, so long as they are following our limits. We've promised DD now that she's 8 that she can go back and forth to her friends house without us (by bike or walking). It's about an 8 minute walk within our own little subdivision. Next summer I hope they are going back and forth more. By ten she can bike yo the school if she doesn't want to take the bus. There is a major road crossing to navigate, which is quite out of the way, so she hasn't had the stamina for biking to do that yet, but I know she will then.

There is a boy across the street who is one year older than my son and they are becoming friends. We usually have him over here, but last night they played outside for an hour after the school bus between the two front yards. It's so nice to not have him underfoot asking for food while I'm trying to make dinner. And DD was helping another friend sell Girl Guide cookies. It was a magical hour.

[fortnightlily]

Oct 26, 2023 16:50:34 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

The only time CPS was called, to my knowledge, is when one of the new neighbors (maybe age 4)? Made her way past the neighborhood entrance to the busy 45 mph road and was walking along it 😬

See, even this I wouldn't see as automatically call-CPS-worthy if it was clearly an aberrant incident and the parents seemed otherwise responsible.

[scm1011]

I agree that passive supervision plays a factor. There are a handful of retirees in our neighborhood who are frequently camped on their front porch and have absolutely stepped in when one of my kids fell and scraped a knee and needed a band aide or a hug. Our next door neighbor is the nosiest old lady alive and while it frequently drives me bonkers I also find comfort in the fact that she would no doubt call me the second she saw any shenanigans or issues. There are usually eyes on the kids in some passive form even if they are not my eyes.

[fortnightlily]

Oct 26, 2023 13:02:23 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Oct 26, 2023 12:55:36 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

In Maryland the legal age to be left alone - 8 - only applies to kids unattended confined to a building or car. It does NOT apply to unattended children outdoors. My elementary school lets anyone above Kindergarten age walk home at the discretion of the parent. 

There was that whole big case about it: www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/free-range-parents-cleared-in-second-neglect-case-after-children-walked-alone/2015/06/22/82283c24-188c-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html

Oh interesting. Maybe I’ll just walk them till I die. 😂

The more I think about this the more it annoys me that the teacher said something to you!

[penguingrrl]

Oct 26, 2023 16:50:34 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I think my neighborhood is a little old school. My sons almost 11, he and his friends ride their bikes about 3/4 mile through the neighborhood to get their friend to play. Everyone really seems to like that it's similar to when we grew up. The neighborhood park is behind my house and there's always kids playing unsupervised. If a kid gets hurt, the nearest adult helps. DS fell off his bike when he was around 6 or so, came home with my neighbors bandaids on him, and an ice pack. It is a fairly small neighborhood though and everyone is familiar with each other even if we don't know each other well. We know which kids belong where etc. The younger kids are given walkie talkies so they can tell parents where they are but parents of kids my son's age have learned that they leave them everywhere, and don't answer so we quit bothering with it. It is scary at times! I have anxiety but I want him to have that independence, it helps with his confidence so I just try to check myself or text the mom closest to where I think he is.

The only time CPS was called, to my knowledge, is when one of the new neighbors (maybe age 4)? Made her way past the neighborhood entrance to the busy 45 mph road and was walking along it 😬

I’ll be honest, when my son was 4 he wandered away and nearly crossed a busier street. I’m very thankful that the people who found him brought him home and didn’t call CPS on me. It was the single time it happened, he was following a rainbow trying to find its end and slipped off. It wasn’t a sign of my parenting at all, just a mishap that thankfully ended well because a couple saw him and brought him home (thankfully we had taught him our address when we moved in two months prior!).

[wanderingback]

Oct 25, 2023 8:40:01 GMT -5 elleblue said:

I recently watched a documentary on this very subject. It's free to watch (with ads) on YouTube. Chasing Childhood. Here's a link to the trailer.

youtu.be/qrpC73hWwgQ?si=gOL-WNazLc4v2Vd7

Thanks for sharing! Watching tonight, will report back

[wanderingback]

Oct 26, 2023 13:57:23 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

Oct 26, 2023 9:54:48 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

But based on what the article is saying this decline in independence has started before screens and social media. Tik tok is very new. I guess I’m wondering do you disagree with everything in the article? I personally do think it made good points!

I think both things can be true.  i haven't pulled the data that his studies are based on (the abstract isn't available from that link) but he's talking about the last 20 years and we have seen significant changes in the last 20 years as far as accessibility to electronics. Also, i haven't dug into the this topic much yet to look at the demographics but this idea of being overscheduled and independence seems like its a very upper class/upper middle class issue. Poor kids aren't the ones who are doing travel soccer every weekend and having ever second of their time being occupied by extra curriculars, for example. The kids who aren't overscheduled may be at home, on electronics, which is another host of issues.

Being overscheduled and less independence is actually happening across income levels! It’s happening in school, recess time is decreased and that’s not just among wealthy schools. Obviously these things aren’t happening to every single person, but in general free time for kids to explore on their own and independence are indeed decreased as a culture.

[wanderingback]

Ok I liked the documentary! I agree with it all that it’s not social media that’s making parents be helicopter parents so that kid’s can’t figure stuff out on their own and being so scheduled with the pressure for success, but it’s the loss of independence. Def lots to think about.

I had no clue there was legislation about this stuff.
Also it touches on the questions about the fears of CPS being called.

[gt7301b]

My son is 7 and we are working with him on developing independence, at least in terms of taking care of himself. He has to make his own lunch and he is constantly telling me that he is the only kid in his class who makes his own lunch.

Kids who are a little older than him actually roam through our neighborhood and play on their own quite a bit but they are more in the 4th/5th grade age range. I think the neighborhood pool rules are probably some of what people use as guidance since 9 year olds are allowed to go without an adult. We do a fair number of drop off play dates where the parents are fairly hands off which gives the kids a bit of a change to work on developing that independence muscle.

[wanderingback]

One point made in the documentary was that all young mammals play. It’s about survival and learning life lessons.

So with structured activities all the time you don’t get to learn all those unsupervised life lessons where you have to problem solve on your own without adult oversight.

That definitely hit home for me!

[scm1011]

I met a friend and her kids at a park yesterday and while I’ve always noticed she’s a little helicopter-y, this article and discussion really put it in a new light for me. She could not stop making suggestions to the kids “should we go over to the sand area and make tunnels? Why don’t you all climb that structure and see what’s at the top? Should we go see what’s over in that corner?” etc. At one point I was like “girl, they’re FINE. Let them figure it out while we chat.” and she just couldn’t let it be.

[tiki]

This topic always reminds me of when I was *eighteen*, bored out of my mind during college winter break because I was stuck at my parents' new house in a new state. No friends, no car, no social media. I decided to walk to Walmart about 2 miles away, and on the way a neighbor pulled over to yell at me for not being in school. When I explained that I was a college student, she still couldn't handle me being alone without an adult and insisted on driving me the rest of the way to Walmart.

[CurlyQ284]

Oct 27, 2023 11:16:05 GMT -5 fortnightlily said:

Oct 26, 2023 16:50:34 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

The only time CPS was called, to my knowledge, is when one of the new neighbors (maybe age 4)? Made her way past the neighborhood entrance to the busy 45 mph road and was walking along it 😬

See, even this I wouldn't see as automatically call-CPS-worthy if it was clearly an aberrant incident and the parents seemed otherwise responsible.

It could have been anyone that called, not necessarily neighbors. The road starts right at the exit from the interstate, we are maybe 3/4 of a mile away from the exit. A lot of people use that road to get home from work to a bunch of neighborhoods on our side of town.

Or actually I could be wrong, now that I think about it, I think the police were called when someone saw her walking and then CPS got involved after the police made a report. I heard it second hand cause my kid is older than their 3 so they don't cross paths much.

[gerberdaisy]

I thought of this article quite a bit over the weekend.

First was when my mom was giving me a hard time for letting my son play in the gym at the Y without me. I was in the building, but was in the pool area watching my daughter, and checked in with him often.

Then DS had a new friend over, and the friend complained non-stop about how bored he was, just kept asking to watch you tube. It was a very long two hours. Usually, they just need an idea every once in a while, but boy this time was different.

[laurack]

Oct 28, 2023 18:25:26 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 26, 2023 13:57:23 GMT -5 jeaniebueller said:

I think both things can be true.  i haven't pulled the data that his studies are based on (the abstract isn't available from that link) but he's talking about the last 20 years and we have seen significant changes in the last 20 years as far as accessibility to electronics. Also, i haven't dug into the this topic much yet to look at the demographics but this idea of being overscheduled and independence seems like its a very upper class/upper middle class issue. Poor kids aren't the ones who are doing travel soccer every weekend and having ever second of their time being occupied by extra curriculars, for example. The kids who aren't overscheduled may be at home, on electronics, which is another host of issues.

Being overscheduled and less independence is actually happening across income levels! It’s happening in school, recess time is decreased and that’s not just among wealthy schools. Obviously these things aren’t happening to every single person, but in general free time for kids to explore on their own and independence are indeed decreased as a culture.

Agreed - most schools I assume will offer free activity or sports participation for those demonstrating need. Many people I know have their children in several concurrent activities and sports and not just wealthy people. It’s become the norm, the idea being they are either busy with a sport, musical lesson, or other kind of scheduled activity or they are on a device. So people I believe put them in all the activities to keep them from the devices. But there is a third option too which is nothing at times. No device or activity. Just go for a walk or a bike ride, meet your friend at the park, read a book, play with toys, draw a picture, daydream etc. just figure out how to occupy time I suppose. We did it for so many hours a day as children, there weren’t iPads or iPhones and doing scheduled activity 5x a week wasn’t really quite as much of a thing 20-30+ years ago. At least when I was growing up anyway, very few kids had activities going on at all never mind every day after school as well as weekends.

Hard to strike a balance / know what the right answer is but I do think it’s a very valuable conversation.

[karinothing]

I am going to admit part of keeping my kid schedule has to do with preventing drug use. I started drinking at 12 and drugs followed a few years after. I fid it in part, because there was zero to do. We have had two kids die at our HS from overdoses this year and more that have overdosed and survived.

I know that activities don't prevent this but it gives me some comfort. There are just so many things to worry about with parenting and I often fill like one choice to prevent them from being messed up results in a other one that will mess them up in a different way. Bah.

[pixy0stix]

I didn't realize how early this starts until I read a post from someone asking for weekend activities to keep their 18 month child entertained during the weekend. Some people responded with jam packed itineraries for their barely toddlers.

[wanderingback]

Nov 1, 2023 9:52:42 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I didn't realize how early this starts until I read a post from someone asking for weekend activities to keep their 18 month child entertained during the weekend. Some people responded with jam packed itineraries for their barely toddlers.

Yep! Well I think some activities are for the sanity of the parents haha.

We decided we’ll do 1 class a season. So we did swimming over the summer and now she’s in music class. She’ll go back to swimming when it warms up. The music class is play based for all ages and the instructor specifically told the parents that means that as the parent you sing along and dance but don’t grab their arms to make them clap for example. The kids can participate however they want and if that means that just lay there the whole time that’s fine. So that made me feel good about it. Not everything needs to be about making your kid into an expert.

I love that my partner takes her so I know that Saturday from 1030 - 1200 is me time