Middle school thread

[librarychica]

Would any one else like to join me in a thread that is the woes of middle school?

[mommyatty]

Sure! Friend groups are hard and weird and I can’t keep up with the changes in who is friend or foe from week to week.

[librarychica]

I will start with middle school attitude and judginess. My daughter is a good kid, generally she is funny and agreeable, but omg she has gone from being a generally kind and accepting kid to just so hard on everyone. Not to their face but in venting. Her math teacher is the worse human alive! That slightly younger boy who comes with his parents when H and I have game night is just impossible to get along with! Some kid at school who she has never mentioned before is suddenly the worse, a pariah upon the 6th grade!

There is a grain of truth to some of these statements — her math teacher is strict and moves through material faster than even I would like, it’s hard to get along sometime with kids who you are being asked to hang with solely because their parents are your parents’ friends, but everything is at an 11. We have had the “focusing so much on the negative is not good for you and primes your brain to see more negative” so many times and she chills out for a little but she then something sets her off again. Why so intense, my child?

One week it was directed at me and finally I was like “well if I can’t ever do anything right you can figure it out yourself.”

[librarychica]

Feb 20, 2024 10:48:46 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

Sure! Friend groups are hard and weird and I can’t keep up with the changes in who is friend or foe from week to week.

Amen. Somehow there are more people involved in middle school dynamics than appear to attend the middle school. It defies the laws of physics.

[waverly]

DD and her best friend no longer talk which is awkward because she lives across the street, and we were carpooling for band. And, she may or may not have quit band, so I have no idea what is happening with the carpool. Like will anyone pick up my child? No idea. I did ask the mom, and she said that her daughter did not quit band. But mom was out of the country the last month with Grandma in charge. So child has been skipping band because Grandma is not enforcing it. So basically I have to look out at the bus stop to see if the kid has their band instrument and that is the answer to my question. Mom is back in the country maybe now? So not sure if there will be better communication or if they were like well our kids are no longer friends so whatever.

DS is still in the friend group that has been lately ignoring him for one on one activities but inviting him for parties. I am happy he is finally getting more party invites, but no idea what is going on with his best friend and why those invites dried up. Some of it is outdoor activites like biking to school when it is warm, but not sure if that will happen this spring or not.

[mae0111]

ohhhh so much middle school angst in my house...

DD1 feels SO MUCH and is very sensitive to any sort of perceived slight. For example, she had been talking to one of her friends about having a sleepover this past weekend. And then the friend's parents decided to go away because it was a long weekend. She viewed this as the friend now hates her and she did this on purpose. I get it - I'm very oversensitive about this stuff too. It's an ADHD trait. So we talk about it and I can usually stop the spiral. But she has had friends ghost her after being close for years, so I get her thinking. She struggles with social cues and we continue to work on that.

DD2 is also a BIG FEELER and there have been a lot of tears lately about a lot of different things. Her friend group seems to remain consistent, and she is an EXCELLENT judge of character. She stays so far out of the fray and can't be bothered with drama. Her old school had a LOT of social drama and infighting within the small class, and DD2 and her bestie were always just off somewhere else on the playground, building homes for ants and stuff.

Alllll of the angst gets directed at me. ALL OF IT. I think I would be able to absorb/react better if it was a new/temporary thing. But DD1 has been at an 11 for over 10 years now. Adding DD2's new intensity is like WOAH.

We had a full rule review on Sunday after a big argument. We talked about respecting us and respecting each other. We were very clear that breaking certain rules come with certain consequences. By the end of the day yesterday, both kids had broken rules that were specifically discussed at our sitdown on Sunday, and both had been reminded separately and together of the consequences of breaking the rules after our sit-down on Sunday. So now both are faced with the consequences, and they're both APPALLED that we aren't giving them, like, 7 more chances before enforcing the rules.

I'm tired. DD1 goes into high school in the fall... maybe things will calm down??

[waverly]

mae0111 , honestly I struggle with those social cues also because friends want more space or things have changed as we entered the pandemic and came back out. This all makes logical sense, but the way that one of my friends treated me just sends me straight into anxiety mode. She tried apologizing, but was also judging and guilt tripping, and then silence again. I was waiting for another social cue, but there was nothing. I am too anxious to reach out even though part of me would like to because I don't know which version I am going to get. Am I going to get "shut down the convo version", friendly/ they want something, judging, guilt tripping or would I get normal person version?

[mae0111]

waverly, I don't think that the reaction you received was "normal". DD1 struggles with basic cues - all of the girls in her class talking about plans they all have that day together, that they've excluded DD1 from, DD1 will say "Hey, can I come?" They will roll their eyes, sigh, and say, "I guess"... and DD1 believes that they're all best friends because they invited her along. It took 2 years of that happening for her to realize that they didn't like her and didn't want her around, and only invited her because what they were doing was against school rules. But if they weren't going to get caught? She was not included.

Heartbreaking to watch, really difficult to explain, and just shitty.

On the other side, she had a good friend that lives nearby. They did everything together and got on really well. The other kid initiated the hangouts about 50% of the time. The other kid was bullied a lot at her school - her mom told me. One day DD1 texted her to confirm if they were hanging out, and the kid said, "No". DD1 said, "Oh, ok, maybe tomorrow?" "NO". DD1 reached out 3-4 more times to just say hi, the kid never responded. 5 years of friendship - gone.

That was not DD1 missing a social cue. That was the other kid having an odd reaction and just dumping DD1. And that sounds a little like what happened to you waverly. It sucks, and it's mean.

I'm facing a situation with an old friend that has been doing the slow drift away. I kind of just stopped reaching out because she never responded... and now all of a sudden she's reaching out more. I don't really know what to do about that.

[CrazyLucky]

How has no one mentioned the smell? It looks like you mostly have DDs. Maybe they don't stink as much?
There's a Ashley Gutermuth video where she goes to wake up her teenage son and she opens the door and closes it right back up, "Oh my God. How does it smell like that?" I could relate!
Other than that, for me it's the push to have his future all planned out already. He's in 8th grade, but has to decide if he wants to go into the high school's STEM academy or Business academy or JROTC. It feels like so young to make those big decisions!

[twinmomma]

We are diving head first into the middle school angsty drama age over here with the girls. So much drama all the time, especially between each other. They're also all in on back talking us, but it's not in a rude, nasty way. More of just questioning everything we say. For example, they shower every night before bed. But the conversation usually goes something lik
Me: "Go take a shower now"
Daughter: "Why now? Can I do it later? Why doesn't she have to shower first? Why me? Can I just wait til later? Can she go first instead?"
It's just so exhausting to feel like everything turns into a debate!

And I swear, DH needs a support group for dads of middle school girls. I feel like he just doesn't get it at all, even though he grew up with two sisters! He is getting so annoyed with stuff like them leaving a wet towel on the floor, or leaving skin care products all over their bathroom sink, and he wants to "crack down" on these rules. Meanwhile I'm over here like "Dude, this is just getting started... save your energy for the real battles..."

[erbear]

My favorite topic! I've taught middle school for 25 years and I'm here to tell you this is all normal normal normal. Sucky, but a normal progression of suck.

Something that has been kind of nice to see is that my kids aren't assholes in school (I know this, because I teach them ). Their teachers get none of their shit attitudes. They are kind to the younger kids and nice to their peers. So that's something.

The most frustrating thing for me is the loss of executive functioning skills. My ADHD 9th grader has always sucked at it, but my NT 7th grader, who has always been more mature and very very responsible, suddenly forgets EVERYTHING.

[librarychica]

@crazylucky, I have two girls so it’s more along the lines of “all nail polishing must happen on the porch” and “why does this entire half of the house smell like a Bath and Body Works?” We did have a rough 4/5th grade where the oldest appeared to have a moral objection to deodorant but she has pivoted hard the other way.

[waverly]

Feb 20, 2024 12:57:58 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

How has no one mentioned the smell? It looks like you mostly have DDs. Maybe they don't stink as much?
There's a Ashley Gutermuth video where she goes to wake up her teenage son and she opens the door and closes it right back up, "Oh my God. How does it smell like that?" I could relate!
Other than that, for me it's the push to have his future all planned out already. He's in 8th grade, but has to decide if he wants to go into the high school's STEM academy or Business academy or JROTC. It feels like so young to make those big decisions!

It doesn't look like we have JROTC at our school, so it is more like picking a track rather than an academy.  Most likely we will just go the more academic route and save the business classes for college if he wants business.  But if he wants to pivot, I think he can at any time as long as he has the pre-req.  I don't see him necessarily wanting to do STEM.  But there are some on off more applied math/ applied science that I think he could take.  

[sandandsea]

I’m here to complain about the homework as there is a lot. Especially for those in extra curriculars with practice on weeknights. Ds excels and enjoys sports and needs the physical outlet and self esteem boost from sports that he doesn’t get in school but it’s rough fitting it all in. DS hasn’t really hit puberty yet but the smell has started and he’s sweating more than ever!

[mae0111]

Omg the smell. I have girls and they stiiiiink. And with the ADHD they often forget deodorant. I keep a couple sticks in the car and they are very often putting it on as we are driving to school.

Occasionally DD2 forgets on a game day. It’s an excellent strategy - no one wants to defend her - she repels the opposition.

[dglvrk2]

mae0111, Thank you so much for starting this thread! I've been wanting a place to dump all of the middle school frustrations for a while.

DD1 is 12.5 and in 7th grade. Friends have been an issue since the start of middle school. We moved to a small, rural mountain community at the start of her fourth grade year - during the pandemic. She quickly made friends with some seemingly wonderful girls. They stayed friends until the end of fifth grade. A couple drifted naturally and DD1 was completely dropped by the core group. I don't know what happened. My guess is DD1 is a little less "cool" than the norm and these girls - who are now the queen bees of the seventh grade - were filtering out the less cool kids and DD1 didn't make the cut.

I now call her once bitten twice shy, as the Great White song goes. (High fives to all my girls who are old enough to remember this song being in the Top 40!!)

She made one good friend in sixth grade and they've made another good friend together. This trio is sweet, smart and funny. They're also a little nerdy and the parents of these girls are a bit anti-social - so I wonder how much influence the parents have on their kids. DD1 has expressed wanting to branch out. She's totally loyal to these girls and wants to be friends with some other girls, namely girls in the popular clique at school, but not the ones who ghosted her. One on one, she seems to get along well with these "popular" girls. I've seen the giggles and connections over boys, teachers and sports. Other parents of these girls have said they like DD because she's easy and stays out of the drama. I think getting into this group while keeping her other friends will take time....

I ran into one of her school counselors a few months back at a restaurant. We were standing in line to use the ladies room. The counselor did say - without any prompting from me- how happy and friendly DD1 is at school. That was great to hear as she seems shy and prefers to keep to herself on weekends. I plan to check in with said counselor in the next month. She does seem to have a pulse on all things middle school.

librarychica, DD1 is also hard on everyone. When she's in a bad mood, EVERYONE sucks. Then she climbs out of the mood and everyone but me is at least tolerable. Then there's me...DD1 snaps at me for things like biting my lip, coughing "excessively" and my hair being not styled to her liking...

WP moms, are YOU the target of such harsh criticism??

erbear, thank you for bringing your middle school teacher perspective into this.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on DD1's social struggles.

To your point about executive functioning - DD1 is hot and cold. She can pack for a vacation and not forget a thing and clean bomb her room so it's immaculate. Then she cannot find her allergy meds, phone or math homework. Math homework will be in her closet, allergy meds in the living room and phone under a pile of clothes she hasn't put away in two weeks. I think this is hereditary. Her father is the same way.

[mae0111]

dglvrk2 - I cannot take credit, but I’m dumping a ton in here!!

The kids had the day off so I took DD2 and a friend to play in a pickup soccer game with their club. DD1 had asked a friend from her new school to hang out. The friend said sorry, she had to help her mom with some home projects.

So DD1 came with us because there’s a small arcade next to the indoor turf field, all in one building.

She was at the arcade alone and saw her friend, who was there with a kid from her neighborhood. DD1 had hung out with both kids several times before.

Now the school friend has turned this on DD1, trying to justify being caught in a lie. I’m trying to coach DD1 through it, but she is digging in her heels about being wronged and kind of demanding an apology (which no 14 year old girl caught out will offer).

It’s going to be a super awkward week. I’m trying to kind of remind her that she is the new kid in this group and to keep the peace while keeping this kid at arms length. But as I’m sure you all experience, Moms are idiots with no life experience.

Just like they were when I was 14 🤪

[dglvrk2]

Feb 20, 2024 16:16:34 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

dglvrk2 - I cannot take credit, but I’m dumping a ton in here!!

The kids had the day off so I took DD2 and a friend to play in a pickup soccer game with their club. DD1 had asked a friend from her new school to hang out. The friend said sorry, she had to help her mom with some home projects.

So DD1 came with us because there’s a small arcade next to the indoor turf field, all in one building.

She was at the arcade alone and saw her friend, who was there with a kid from her neighborhood. DD1 had hung out with both kids several times before.

Now the school friend has turned this on DD1, trying to justify being caught in a lie. I’m trying to coach DD1 through it, but she is digging in her heels about being wronged and kind of demanding an apology (which no 14 year old girl caught out will offer).

It’s going to be a super awkward week. I’m trying to kind of remind her that she is the new kid in this group and to keep the peace while keeping this kid at arms length. But as I’m sure you all experience, Moms are idiots with no life experience.

Just like they were when I was 14 🤪

Wow! You mentioned that your DD1 doesn't always pick up on social cues. Nevertheless, the situation has to really stink for her.

As adults, we know it's best to handle something like this with a lot of grace and a smile. However, at 14, I would have been PISSED.

[waverly]

dglvrk2, I do not get harsh criticism, but whenever I get any DH is really good about shutting that kind of stuff down. So that is helpful anyway.

I'm not erbear, but what you are describing for friendships sounds like the playbook for middle school. Sounds very normal as they are very interested in social status those years. It does start to wane maybe around 10th/11th grade, and I feel like by twelth grade everyone is kind of headed out and not nearly as interested in popularity anymore. DS already had the nerd friends, so luckily he kept the same group, but I know DD's group is going to change dramatically because there is a large group of girls that are friendly with everyone around 30 maybe in the grade, and of course that will weed out girls and have subsets of groups. It is so big that I can't really say she has a core group except for maybe the soccer team.

[waverly]

Feb 20, 2024 16:16:34 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

dglvrk2 - I cannot take credit, but I’m dumping a ton in here!!

The kids had the day off so I took DD2 and a friend to play in a pickup soccer game with their club. DD1 had asked a friend from her new school to hang out. The friend said sorry, she had to help her mom with some home projects.

So DD1 came with us because there’s a small arcade next to the indoor turf field, all in one building.

She was at the arcade alone and saw her friend, who was there with a kid from her neighborhood. DD1 had hung out with both kids several times before.

Now the school friend has turned this on DD1, trying to justify being caught in a lie. I’m trying to coach DD1 through it, but she is digging in her heels about being wronged and kind of demanding an apology (which no 14 year old girl caught out will offer).

It’s going to be a super awkward week. I’m trying to kind of remind her that she is the new kid in this group and to keep the peace while keeping this kid at arms length. But as I’m sure you all experience, Moms are idiots with no life experience.

Just like they were when I was 14 🤪

Ugh.  I hate when that happens. Its possible she was helping her mom and doing other friend stuff, but just be honest.  Even adult me was mad when my friend texted that her kids were sick so she can't do plans, and then her friend posted a picture of them making cookies at her house on FB.  Someone pointed out that they could have still been sick, but really?  Too sick for my house, but well enough to have other people over.  I forgot about that.  Still happens even into adulthood.  If you are going to lie you have to be able to back it up, so better to just say hey sorry we are busy that day because it isn't a lie.  

[mae0111]

Oh and dglvrk2, I am 100000% the main target of DD1's angst. Not necessarily the criticism, but lots of eyerolling, I'm mean, I'm ruining her life, etc.

BUT!!!

I consistently get reports from teachers and other parents about how lovely both kids are; what good, caring friends; how they go out of their way to help people, include people, make sure everyone is comfortable and not feeling left out.

So while we might catch the brunt of it at home, at least they are good people outside of our four walls.

[186momx]

My dad calls middle school drama school and DD 100% agrees with him. So much drama and the boyfriend/girlfriend is very real in 7th grade. DD has gotten very good at venting when she calls me about school and most of the time I just listen. She has also started texting/messaging her friends asking if she did something wrong and that she didn't understand why they ignored her at lunch, wouldn't sit with her in class (1 teacher lets them choose seats), etc. This seems to be helping and the counselor suggested she do it. DD is the new kid at a K-8 school (2nd year). DD's two school friends K and B go in spurts with wanting to hang with the Queen Bee which DD can't stand and avoids at all costs. That usually is what causes the rift because if K & B eat with Queen Bee then DD is excluded because not enough seats at the table so she eats alone.

I swear the drama at gymnastics has been worse than school lately. It really isn't with the middle school group but with the "littles" (8-yr10yr kids). Lot of not being included in group events outside of gym. One of the girls had a b-day gym party and DD was the only one not included in the invite which was just rude on the parents' part. DD didn't care as she can't stand this girl but it still was pretty obvious and a couple parents asked me why we didn't go, and I had to be umm we weren't invited.

mae0111, this happens with DD's school friends all the time. DD asks to do something and they can't or have plans and then she finds out they went anyways without her with another group. I asked DD if that bugged her and she said yes but she also said she wouldn't have wanted to go with XYZ and would have felt weird if she tagged along with the group.
dglvrk2, DD's school counselor is a godsend. I love how she just gets DD and what is going on at school.

[mae0111]

waverly, I told DD1 the story about a friend of mine that used to come over every NY Eve with her DH, since before we had kids. I've known her for over 20 years.

A few years ago, just a few hours before she was due to arrive, she told me that her elderly dad that lives with her had fallen, possibly broken a couple of ribs, and she wanted to stay home to keep an eye on him.

Goodness - of course!

Then she was tagged in photos at a NY Eve party at her friends' house.

I get why they didn't want to spend it with us. We had 2 young kids and they didn't. But just be honest with us.

That started me kind of backing away from the friendship, and I've kind of let her take the lead. I've seen her *once* since that happened.

So, agreed that adults can be crappy too...

[waverly]

mae0111, I let friend take the lead also and have also only seen her once.

The visit wasn’t that good so that is another thing holding me back. If we had a blast then I might try harder but it was a poor/ mediocre visit.

[erbear]

So the thing I think is important to keep in mind about friendships is that they shift all the time, and most kids are looking for connection in a moment. Realistically, how many adults do you know whose are friends (real friends) with their middle school crew? It's hard for kids to make genuine connections sometimes because there is so much shifting of what's cool and who is "in" -- the risk necessary to have a real FRIEND (opening up, being vulnerable) is just not worth it. I always encourage kids who are in social drama (which is everyone, all the time, pretty much) to be kind and find someone else for today -- we all know the groups will shift again tomorrow.

My 9th grader had a group of very close girl friends in middle school. She's friends with none of them now. She hangs with some boys, one different girl, and the girls on her soccer team. Whenever I worry that she's lonely, I remember that I never talk to my high school friends...they were placeholders until I got to college and found my real peeps.

DD2 (7th grade) has a close group of 2 friends who I think she'll stick with. They are well-liked by the other kids, but they are pretty insular and don't really get involved with the drama.

I always tell my kids that I would worry if you came home and told me you were the most popular kid in the class, because if that's true, you're probably not being kind to someone.

[mae0111]

erbear - thank you for this. DD1 entered this school (5-8 in middle, 9-12 in upper) as an 8th grader. I knew it would be tough for her but she needed to get out of the old school. She has such a hard time navigating friendships anyway, and add the middle school meanness… she’s just feeling lonely.

Your post made me feel better. I’m hoping she can just get through the year relatively unscathed, and her 60-person class will double. She will have more opportunities to find her people. Fingers crossed….

[mommyatty]

erbear, my closest friend in the entire world, who is the closest thing I have to family, I met the first day of junior high. But to your point, we aren’t friends with anyone else we were friends with then. We are close with two other women we met in 9th grade. But I realize we are very weird. And lucky AF.

DD’s bff had to leave school yesterday. Details very murky, but something about self harm and her having a pocket knife. Another girl said the bff had been harming herself for a while but had stopped and now restarted. (This girl is drama-prone and often full of shit, so grains of salt on that part.) So we had a big, big discussion of how important it is to tell an adult when a friend is doing something harmful and dangerous. That it is vital to get them help to keep them safe. Luckily, someone went to the school administration and told them about bff, and no one has figured out who told. So that’s giving all the kids confidence that you can safely report without being discovered.

[CrazyLucky]

Ugh, you all have me nervous. DS is doing pretty well as far as friends go in 8th grade. His school is humungous, but he's found his people in the band. It's just the smell with him.
But DD starts middle school next year (7th grade here). I am not looking forward to the drama.

[mommyatty]

CrazyLucky, so I think you’re probably in the thick of it. My mom always said 5th grade girls are literally the least lovable creatures on the planet. So even if your DD is not in junior high, she’s in the middle of the hormonal insanity.

[polecat8]

I think DH and I lucked out with DD in middle school because she was either oblivious or ignored any drama (she also hates conflict so she avoids it when possible). She found her crew of friends by the end of middle school. However, since all of them have some level of ADHD, requests to hang out or questions sometimes get ignored unintentionally.

DS1 is heading to middle school next year (they start at 5th in our district). He is a completely different person than DD and will probably need a little more supervision since he gets caught up in what others are doing pretty easily.