Forgiveness - Need Some Advice - LONG

[SKP82]

Sorry this is long; CN at the bottom.

Some of you might remember that I posted awhile ago about my mom's ex-husband who was physically abusive towards her during my childhood and how it has been causing me a lot of pain recently (nightmares, stress, etc).

I have started seeing a therapist regarding these issues. I thought I had worked through them when I was younger (around 15 or so), but they are still having an affect on my life. My therapist has told me that scientists have recently found that the brain does not fully mature until age 26, so any "work" I did was not done with an adult brain, so that is probably why I am still struggling with it.

In my session yesterday (my third with her), I asked her how I was supposed to heal through therapy. Is just talking about it supposed to make me less sensitive about it? How is therapy going to help?

She said that by understanding the person who caused me this pain (what he may have went through as a child/his life circumstances that made him an abusive asshole), that I should be able come to a place of forgiveness. I have to forgive him in order to not be affected by it. I have never considered this before. He is the one person I can truly say that I hate. I don't know if I want to forgive him or if I even can. My therapist says that by hating him, I am using a lot of energy; I agree with this.

My therapist has also been asking a lot of questions about my mother's and father's actions during this time. "Why did your mother choose to stay with him? There must have been some sort of connection between them for her to stay. Have you asked your father why he didn't pay child support? Your mother may have had more options in choosing a husband if he had supported his 3 children." My thought on this matter is that I do not have issues with my parents. I have let go of the anger I felt toward either of them and moved on. I have a relationship with both of them that I am comfortable with, so I don't understand why she wants me to go there and have me ask my mother/father these uncomfortable questions.

So, I am wondering who here has been in a situation where they have forgiven someone who has caused a lot of pain to them? Or were you able to work through that pain in another way?

I spoke with H about it last night, and he agrees with me that maybe her way of going about it isn't the best for me. I am wondering if I should get another therapist or try it her way?

CN: My therapist thinks I have to forgive the man who beat my mother and made my and my brother's childhood a living hell. Should I try it her way (forgive) or find another therapist to help me work through this?

[imoan]

When you forgive someone like that... it's for YOU, not for them. Just keep that in mind while you're going through the process. You need to forgive him for you... not to make his actions acceptable.

Good luck!

[wrathofkuus]

I think forgiveness is highly overrated. You're never going to understand him or be at peace with what he did. What you need to work through isn't anything in or about him, but the effect it had on you.

I'm not going to say dump your therapist, because I'm no expert, but I'm not at all impressed by the little about her that you've said here.

[Deleted]

I semi agree. I dated somebody who was a horrible person. So mean to me and verbally abusive and sonetimes semi physically abusive (i say semi because he never really punched me or gave me a black eye but it could get a little rough). Anyways We've been broken up for 5 years and it wasn't till about 3 years ago, when i finally forgave him, that is when i really let go. It was an amazing thing. He doesn't know I forgave him and of course I will never forget anything but it really let me move on.

[sprky79]

Sept 26, 2012 12:45:43 GMT -5 imoan said:

When you forgive someone like that... it's for YOU, not for them. Just keep that in mind while you're going through the process. You need to forgive him for you... not to make his actions acceptable.

Good luck!

I'm kind of here with this. I think, to me, forgiveness is my way of not letting someone rent space in my head any more. It doesn't excuse what they did, it doesn't make it "OK," but its my way of saying, "This issue is not worth the harm it is causing me, my life, and my relationships to keep dwelling on, so I'm going to move on from it." I don't know if that helps.

[kellbell191]

I'm realizing in therapy that sometimes the things I need to work on are not the things I want to work on. I do believe your therapist is on to something with the issues with your parents. You may have forgiven them but that doesn't erase the negative impact their actions had on you. And sometimes you feel like you have forgiven someone and moved on, when deep down you haven't.

As for your step Dad, I don't think you need to forgive him but the fact that you still care enough to hate him has to be draining. I forget the saying but its something about the opposite of love isn't hate, its apathy. You don't have to forgive to accept what happened to you and move on and just not care about him anymore.

[Deleted]

I don't know shit about therapy but she seems to be advocating that you give people excuses for the bullshit and then forgive them like it's all good.

I don't like this person.

[laptopvixen]

Forgiveness in this situation means letting go of the negativity inside of you. It doesn't mean that you condone his actions, and certainly some things are truly unforgiveable. It's not always the best word to use in these situations, imo.

What you need to do is "let go" of the anger and hatred. This person does not deserve your energy or a thought in your head.

And I think she may be on to something wrt to your own parents. You say you're in a good place with them now, but maybe hating your stepfather allows you not to have feelings of hate or anger towards your mother or your father.

Therapy is really not supposed to be all about being made to feel comfortable.

I would see this person again and tell her that you cannot forgive, but does she consider "letting go" to be paramount to forgiveness. If she insists that you have to forgive him, find someone else.

And it may be helpful to understand more about someone (i.e. were they abused as a child) in some aspects but then again (WRT my mother) it makes me crazy that she refused and refuses to get therapy and thereby passed on some of her crazy to our family.

[SKP82]

Crack, that does make sense and I understand that the forgiveness is supposed to be for me, not him.

I just don't think I will ever understand or be able to forgive the things that he did.

I want to be in a place where I can think about it without crying. I want to not jump out of my skin when my H comes up behind me and touches me if I didn't hear him. I want to be able to sleep without having terrifying nightmares. Will forgiving him give me those things?

[Deleted]

See, when I'm reading that, I'm thinking maybe she's not quite getting what you're after. IDK. I'm not sure that forgiving him or whatever is going to help you deal with those feelings.

Have you asked her about that?

[SKP82]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I truly appreciate them.

I do understand that therapy is not about being comfortable. I know that in order to change and grow, I will have to come to terms with/discuss things that make me extremely uncomfortable.

There are some things that I am not 100% okay with wrt my parents. I just hate the idea of bringing these things up to my mom. I know she would feel so terribly guilty and I don't want her to feel like that. I am in a good place with her and I don't want to hurt her, especially since I am willing to let those things go without confronting her. Does that make sense?

With my dad, I feel like he would turn whatever questions I ask him into a philosophical discussion that would just drain me mentally and emotionally. We don't have a close relationship, and I am fine with that right now.

[wrathofkuus]

I don't think working through anger at your parents in therapy has to involve talking to them about it at all, necessarily.

[angelaa73]

I think the forgiveness she is taking about is going to be extended. Right now she wants you to focus on the abuser, letting go of the hatred which you are still grappling with in your nightmares. Next, she will work with you on forgiving your mother for her role in this shitstorm, and to a lesser extent, your dad too. In no way will she want you to excuse the abusers behavior, or blame a victim, but mostly to understand as much as you can so that the last never becomes the present or future.

Sent from my PC36100 using ProBoards

[Deleted]

I don't think you should have to go to your parents to come to a better place with the past. They can't be counted on to respond in the way that you would need anyway simply because well, you can't make them, kwim?

[sprky79]

Sept 26, 2012 13:05:18 GMT -5 wrathofkuus said:

I don't think working through anger at your parents in therapy has to involve talking to them about it at all, necessarily.

Agreed.

Does your therapist want you to confront your Mom? What does he/she think it will accomplish for you?

[SKP82]

Habbs - I told her that I want to be in a place where I am not as affected by the things that happened. I think I will be more specific when I see her next.

LTV - I think "let go" is a term I am more comfortable with. I will ask her about that. Thank you for that suggestion.

Crack - thank you for sharing that. I truly do not think I am forgive. I sure as hell can't forget, but I want to be able to deal with how I react/my emotions better.

I don't know if I am ready for my H to come with me. He is super supportive, but I am still having trouble speaking about specific things, even in therapy.

[SKP82]

Sue - I agree. Sprky - she wants me to ask my mom questions about why things happened the way they did.

[ans1999]

Is it possible that she thinks you have repressed feelings of anger towards your parents that you are unwilling to deal with? It would be understandable that you might feel that your parents have some responsibility in the situation and it would be helpful to deal with those emotions too. It doesn't mean you need to change your good relationship with your parents. She might want you to see the dysfunction that might be happening in your whole family system.

ETA: I didn't read all the other responses. Sorry if this is a repeat.

[lust2hart]

Forgiveness is one of those..."out there" concepts for me. Like, what does it actually MEAN? How do I know if I've actually forgiven someone?

My mom emotionally and physically abused me growing up. I never got therapy for it, but somehow, I've been able to get through it and I still have a relationship with her. I *think* I've forgiven her, but what does that mean? When I think about my childhood, I do still get mad. I'll never forget what happened, or be able to say, "It's okay." There is nothing that can excuse or explain the way she treated me. But yet I don't have this anger or hate in my heart towards her, either. I mean, I get angry when I think about specific situations, but it's not a general "I'm always mad at my mom" sort of thing.

As for how I've gotten here - at some point, and I don't remember when, I just decided that all of this turmoil inside of me was just not worth it. And I worked to let go of thoughts/feelings as they came to me. So if for some reason I was thinking about my past one day, I would tell myself that I'm not going to let all of those bad feelings take up space in my brain and heart, and I would purposely shift my focus on to something that made me happy. Eventually, my past lost its power over me, meaning that I rarely think about it, and never dwell on it. I'm able to talk about my past in a pretty matter-of-fact, detached way, without getting all riled up. If I let myself think about it for too long, though, sure, that anger comes back - but I'm not sure it's realistic to think that one day it won't.

Is that forgiveness? I dunno. Maybe it's just not dealing with it.

[SKP82]

I am stepping off for a little bit. I really appreciate everyone's responses and will check back when I get back to my office.

[babygirlpriest]

Obviously this is based on my personal experience and what helped me, but here's my 2 cents:

Like pp said, I don't think forgiveness in the traditional sense is always the goal so much as releasing the hate and toxic emotions surrounding this person and what happened to you.

A book that helped me enormously (and I am NOT a self-help fan), even more than therapy, was Forgiving the Unforgivable by Beverly Flannigan (sp?). It is a work-intense book that guided me through the processes of dealing with what happened. My guess is that perhaps part of why the therapist wanted you to explore your parents' responsibility in this is to help you fully understand what happened and all that went into making this horrible situation.

I'm doing a shit job of explaining this but basically, the premise is this: Certain things in life you can't just "get over." The only way to reach a place of peace is to "go through" it - meaning to actively process and understand (not excuse) the what and why of what happened. And when you understand the why/how/etc. it brings you to a place of greater security that you are safe in your current situation.

Again - shit job of explaining and not right for everyone. But if you do decide to ditch the therapist and are interested, this was a saving tool for me.

[ans1999]

Sept 26, 2012 13:21:28 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

Forgiveness is one of those..."out there" concepts for me. Like, what does it actually MEAN? How do I know if I've actually forgiven someone?

My mom emotionally and physically abused me growing up. I never got therapy for it, but somehow, I've been able to get through it and I still have a relationship with her. I *think* I've forgiven her, but what does that mean? When I think about my childhood, I do still get mad. I'll never forget what happened, or be able to say, "It's okay." There is nothing that can excuse or explain the way she treated me. But yet I don't have this anger or hate in my heart towards her, either. I mean, I get angry when I think about specific situations, but it's not a general "I'm always mad at my mom" sort of thing.

As for how I've gotten here - at some point, and I don't remember when, I just decided that all of this turmoil inside of me was just not worth it. And I worked to let go of thoughts/feelings as they came to me. So if for some reason I was thinking about my past one day, I would tell myself that I'm not going to let all of those bad feelings take up space in my brain and heart, and I would purposely shift my focus on to something that made me happy. Eventually, my past lost its power over me, meaning that I rarely think about it, and never dwell on it. I'm able to talk about my past in a pretty matter-of-fact, detached way, without getting all riled up. If I let myself think about it for too long, though, sure, that anger comes back - but I'm not sure it's realistic to think that one day it won't.

Is that forgiveness? I dunno. Maybe it's just not dealing with it.

I really like your description of coming to terms with something. My father basically abandoned us and was abusive in his dealings with us. I have come to a place like yours where I don't want it to be a big part of my life anymore. I was tired of expending so much negative energy on hat part of my life.

[PinkSquirrel]

I think there's a big difference between forgiving someone and being at a place where you can let it go and move past it. My H has had issues with his Mom and has been going to therapy. He sure as shit doesn't forgive the things she's done, but he's been able to let go of a lot of the anger he had towards her.

[lust2hart]

Sept 26, 2012 13:27:03 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

I think there's a big difference between forgiving someone and being at a place where you can let it go and move past it. My H has had issues with his Mom and has been going to therapy. He sure as shit doesn't forgive the things she's done, but he's been able to let go of a lot of the anger he had towards her.

But, then, what's the difference? That's what I struggle with. What does it mean to forgive someone?

Like, with my mom. She abused me. I've let go of the anger. Is that not forgiveness? Is forgiveness more than that?

Or, let's try this - when my DH says something insensitive, and he hurts my feelings - he apologizes, and I forgive him. I'll say, "It's okay." And it is. I don't struggle with this scenario - I do think that's forgiveness and don't have any issues "defining" whether or not this is forgiveness.

But then thinking about the situation with my mom - Abuse is NOT okay. It will NEVER BE okay. Does that mean it's unforgivable?

[livinitup]

Yes, I think your therapist has a very valid and effective approach to getting you to a place of health and good mental health.

It sounds like you've been coping very well, and coping is different than healing. You've put to rest any bad feelings you have about your parents, you have a good relationship with them. You hate your step-father, he is the villian. You don't want to stop hating him. That's good coping.

But your coping is starting to unravel leaving you with negative fallout like stress and nightmares. You can't keep ALL of the players who hurt you in the exact same place they have been in your mind, and expect to get the healing that you want for your life.

What your therapist is doing, is trained to do and seen work - is to re-look at the dynamic you grew-up in with fresh, adult eyes. With her help and guidance, explore some other alleys that have remained unlit or uncovered. Not to place blame or get you angry at them - but to really look at them.

We all want to skip to the end of therapy where we feel so much better about the painful parts of our lives. We all want that map at the beginging of the journey - the one that says you'll do this, this and this - and then be all better. But you can't look at a path and say "Ah ha, that's easy, that will work." You actually have to start walking down the path, doing the work, exploring the answers to the therapists questions, deal with the icky feelings, ask tough questions, listen to answers, cry, laugh - do the work. And then you'll say, "wow, I didn't know when I started that this was what I needed to get here."

It might feel scary to think about stopping hating your step-father. That's been a very close and very significant feeling in your life, forever. Letting go of that seems horifying. And worse, forgiving him may make you want to vomit. THAT isn't the goal. YOU are the goal. Dealing with all of your feelings on your childhood, real, remembered and suppressed - means gaining good mental health to be free of stress and nightmare. Maybe you won't ever frgive him. But you sure deserve to trust your therapist to get you to a place of good mental health. And any good therapist is going to make you explore all of the players in your childhood in a new way.

[partiallysunny]

I wouldn't call it forgiveness, but a sense of understanding and being able to let go was very important to me.

[sprky79]

Sept 26, 2012 13:12:39 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Sue - I agree. Sprky - she wants me to ask my mom questions about why things happened the way they did.

I get that, but my question I guess is "What will that do for you?"

[scotty]

I don't believe in forgiveness in those situations. Instead, I do think understanding what happened, maybe the whys, and understanding that you're away from that, it is over, and will never see that person again, should help. You are not powerless anymore. You will not be a child who felt afraid ever again. There's a type of therapy called EMDR that can take you back to childhood memories and you can talk to that child. Or hypnosis?

Good luck.

[scotty]

Sept 26, 2012 14:06:52 GMT -5 partiallysunny said:

I wouldn't call it forgiveness, but a sense of understanding and being able to let go was very important to me.

:Y:

Doing this doesn't remove blame from the person.

[partiallysunny]

I don't think skp's therapist is focusing on the "what if's". I think her therapist is trying to show her that it's not just her stepfather that caused the situation. Yes, skp says "I've forgiven my mother for her part in it and don't want to rehash it with her", but her therapist is saying "At the time, you were younger. You may not have processed it correctly. Let's revisit that part again."

Sometimes you have to take a couple steps back to take a giant leap forward.