DS is only 12 and in middle school (6th) but I feel like lately he has really changed, and I am starting to be worried. He has started to have breakdowns where he basically just cries in my arms for a long time. The other night he broke down about going back to school. Telling me it is too hard and tiring and that everyone expects too much from him and he can't do it anymore. I asked him who he was talking about and he said teachers and his friends and that everyone expects him to be perfect and it is just too much.
I know he has long struggled with perfectionism, but I think elementary was easy enough that it was not that big if a source of stress. He currently has all As and never has homework or anything, but I know he gets upset when he gets anything below 100% and I tried talking to him about how it is okay to not get 100% but he told me that is what the teachers expect of him. I don't know that this is true (but I kind of doubt it). I do know that the teachers hold him up as an example in class a lot, which I think does put pressure on him to continue to do well. He used to get up easily on his own and now its a struggle to get him out of bed in the morning and today he was just crying about not wanting to go to school (and he was just essentially off two weeks due to spring break and illness)
He has also started to want to drop out of his after-school activities (saying everything is tiring). During the winter he did something two days a week, so it wasn't a heavy load, and he would often have 4 hours after school to rest before the activity started. I am just really worried he is depressed or just experiencing too much stress. I made a psych consultation appointment today, but has anyone else been through this? Anything you could do to help your kid?
Post by followyourarrow on Apr 1, 2024 8:20:05 GMT -5
Is he getting enough sleep? I'd take him to the dr and have them run blood work to see if there's a reason he's so tired. It all may be normal growth stuff, but it's a place to start. I think the psych consult is also a great start.
Is he getting enough sleep? I'd take him to the dr and have them run blood work to see if there's a reason he's so tired. It all may be normal growth stuff, but it's a place to start. I think the psych consult is also a great start.
We did bloodwork a few months ago and everything was normal, but I guess something could have changed. Although he won't be happy about it lol.
He has lights out at 9pm and wakes up at 630. He tells me he doesn't fall asleep, but I see him asleep. So I don't know.
Is he getting enough sleep? I'd take him to the dr and have them run blood work to see if there's a reason he's so tired. It all may be normal growth stuff, but it's a place to start. I think the psych consult is also a great start.
We did bloodwork a few months ago and everything was normal, but I guess something could have changed. Although he won't be happy about it lol.
He has lights out at 9pm and wakes up at 630. He tells me he doesn't fall asleep, but I see him asleep. So I don't know.
I wonder if he's not getting good quality sleep if he feels like he's not falling asleep. Might be worth mentioning.
Middle school has been hard for DD as well (she's also in sixth) and this semester things seem particularly challenging. DD has REALLY needed her sleep this year, so we often have her shower right after dinner, and she ends up going to bed even earlier than her 9 pm bedtime. Activities have been somewhat challenging, going to 8 or 9 pm sometimes. It has been very tough for her but I think we all agree that it is worth her getting to bed late once a week.
This semester has been pretty hard. They are moving into more challenging topics and the kids need a deeper understanding to score well. Have you spoken to any of your son's teachers? We had a conference with her math teacher a few weeks back that gave us a better understanding of how and why she was struggling and an understanding of how to help her better. The teacher was able to also point out some reasons why she was struggling with some of her other classes (the school has the kids on teams, so she understands what the science, ELA, SS, etc. teachers are doing)--it was because ALL of the kids were.
It could be depression or anxiety, but it also could just be adjusting to middle school. I'd start with talking to the teachers and working to prioritize sleep.
You're doing the right thing to get him in with a mental health professional. Your post has some red flags in it, which I'm sure you know. Make sure you let him know you love him no matter what (which I'm sure you've already done) and that you are actively seeking help.
BTW, keep the school posted with what's happening. I'm sure his teachers think they are building up his confidence by using him as an example. Let them know the impact it's having. Does he have a trusted teacher at school? You might want to let that person in on what's going on so someone has eyes on him there too.
I don't mean to sound alarmist but this worries me.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I would definitely talk to the teachers about making him an example. They probably don’t realize it puts pressure on him
But middle school is also a ton more work than elementary (and, frankly, I think expectations are too high) and he might need less scheduled time (I think you’re a poster whose kids have activities most nights of the week usually?) even if he doesn’t have homework to just decompress. We are in the same school district & I know SO MANY middle schoolers freaking out over grades & classes. It’s completely heartbreaking. Some of it is from parents (even if you’re mellow, a friend’s parent may not be & the friend’s comments hype up your kid) & some I think there’s just too much teachers are expected to cover.
bears , we just had conferences. Teachers had nothing but praise. I don't know that he is struggling. He currently has a 100% in most of his classes. I don't know, it seems like stuff comes generally easy to him? He has done bad on two different math tests but retook them and got 100%. So, I don't know. I think he just has really high expectations for himself.
erbear , I do think the teachers think they are just complimenting his hard work, but I do wonder if it is a lot. Like i know his science teachers talks about him in other classes (like "you kids need to be more like DS"). And she has sent out multiple emails to all of her classes/families bragging about him. WHICH is great. But also, I feel like he thinks he can't slack off or anything. I have re-assured him I love him and that it is okay if he gets a B (he doesn't believe it though). This is a kid who is researching what he needs to get into college already
gardengal , yes we have tried to cut back on activities. He does Scouts which he loves and baseball. He wants to continue both, so I am not sure how to balance it. He does have a couple hours after school to decompress before activities.
erbear , I do think the teachers think they are just complimenting his hard work, but I do wonder if it is a lot. Like i know his science teachers talks about him in other classes (like "you kids need to be more like DS"). And she has sent out multiple emails to all of her classes/families bragging about him..
This is completely inappropriate, and I’d ask this teacher to not discuss your child in other classes/parents.
I’d definitely have him talk to someone. Poor kid.
erbear , I do think the teachers think they are just complimenting his hard work, but I do wonder if it is a lot. Like i know his science teachers talks about him in other classes (like "you kids need to be more like DS"). And she has sent out multiple emails to all of her classes/families bragging about him..
This is completely inappropriate, and I’d ask this teacher to not discuss your child in other classes/parents.
I’d definitely have him talk to someone. Poor kid.
I agree that this is very inappropriate. Also a little weird.
I agree that the emails using his name, even as praise, are inappropriate.
Some student like that sort of thing, some not. It seems like there is some evidence that your son is receiving a good deal of pressure from his teachers and peers. My fear would be that if it not addressed and stopped, it will completely backfire and your son will tank his grades on purpose.
What a mess. I am glad he can express himself and tell you about it.
So this was DD last year. She did super well in her classes but put so much pressure on herself to be perfect. She also said her teachers expected it and honestly I believe her. These state tests determine funding and teacher appraisals so there is more emphasis than there needs to be. I always tell DD the lectures to study and be prepared are not aimed her because her teachers know she is. One day she will believe me.
Her 6th grade science teacher was the first one to alert me to a problem. He pulled DD aside one day and talked to her about how her test anxiety wasn’t healthy. I don’t know what he said exactly but it helped tremendously. Things got better and DD still goes to him for a reality check. However things got worse this year. Like a lot worse. DD ended up formally diagnosed with anxiety and she started therapy. It’s helped but will be a life long thing to manage. Her teachers are aware and have been amazing with unofficial accommodations. Definitely reach out.
I would definitely loop his teachers in so they are aware and can drop the comparisons - which, agreed, are weird to make even if the student isn't bothered by it.
Is there a school counselor he can drop in and talk to during the day? It might be helpful if he can talk through things in the moment instead of having to bottle up his stress until he gets home.
Perfectionism is so tough because it is easy to overlook when a kid seems to be hitting all their academic goals - good for him for speaking up. My DD is similar and has had crying fits over forgetting a book at school, the pressure is totally internal so nothing we say will convince her that the sky isn't falling.
Post by thebreakfastclub on Apr 1, 2024 10:32:04 GMT -5
That teacher is so odd, but also, how does saying, 'you need to be more like X' even help the other kids be better? There's no way to action off of that even if you wanted to.
I am dealing with something very similar and same age. I hope therapy for anxiety/perfectionism will be helpful to teach stress reduction techniques, but also at home we have been using the insight timer app to do guided meditations each day. Usually at night but this morning she was struggling and wanted to do one before school.
This sounds like me when I was that age, except my dad also really pushed me to always be the best at everything, so I had added stress at home too. I also really only got praise and attention from my dad when I was the best, or did really well, so it became a vicious cycle where I also put the pressure on myself because I wanted my dad to be proud and give me that recognition. I put such pressure on myself that if I tried something new and wasn’t immediately great at it, I’d find a way to quit doing it.
I wish my parents had gotten me into some therapy as a child, because unfortunately for me, those behaviors still exist today. I still put immense pressure on myself, feel the need to be perfect, quit things where I don’t immediately show skill, but at the same time, I don’t want to put in effort for anything because it’s all too much. I let things build up until I have a good, old-fashioned emotional breakdown over it.
All that to say, I’m glad to hear you’ve made an appointment for a psych consultation. I really feel I could have benefitted from learning coping mechanisms as a child vs trying to learn them as an adult. Just continue to be supportive of him (which it sounds like you are!) and let him know that his value doesn’t come from his perfection. I hope he starts to feel better soon! It’s so hard.
Post by karinothing on Apr 1, 2024 11:26:05 GMT -5
Thanks everyone about how the teacher stuff is inappropriate. I felt kind of odd about it, but wasn't really sure. This teacher really LOVES him and I think he is the first kid that shows a very huge interest in science in a few years so they are really close. But it is not just her. Like he takes sample tests for other teachers and gets invited to do special projects. I mean he enjoys it all but I think it makes him think he can't take a break at all.
1yeartogo, I will look into that app. He does use another app/guided mediation at night to help fall asleep. But he never uses it during the day. I will talk to him about it.
arielroux, thank you for the insight. I am sorry you are struggling. I am sure I have put pressure on him at times. Intentionally or not. he is a bright kid and I think capable of amazing things so I always encourage it (like make sure he gets involved in science fairs, projects, camps, etc) but have been baking off. This summer her will have a good 5 weeks of nothing/vacation which I think will be good for him.
My 12yo DD (7th) has some perfectionistic tendencies. I did make sure to "warn" some of her teachers during the fall conferences that even though she has an A in their class, she's secretly pissed that she doesn't have an A+ so that they wouldn't unintentionally do anything to make it worse. It's not keeping her up at night or anything at this point but I do try to be careful about what I say and how I frame things because I don't want it to get worse. For example, I try to avoid praising the good grade itself but instead praise the effort that she put into a particular project or assignment. And every time report cards come out I make sure to explicitly tell her that I would be just as proud of her if she had no As if she was putting in the same effort she does now.
We did just have a moment last night where she was worried about an essay on an application and mentioned something about how she wants to get into X now so it can help her get into Y in high school so that can help her get into a good college and I was floored because we have never discussed anything remotely related to that at home. I told her that she is 12 and doesn't need to worry at all about college yet because she won't apply until she is 17. And that her 7th grade stuff isn't going to be anywhere on her college application and her only goals now should be to learn as much as she can in class and do activities because she enjoys them and that's it.
ETA: The teacher stuff seems completely inappropriate to me as well and seems like a good way of getting the other kids to give him a hard time. When I was young, school came easily to me and I got good grades but my siblings did not have the same experience. My mom continually would nag them about why can't they be more like their sister and get good grades and it lead to a lot of self esteem issues and resentment toward me. I will never, ever drive a wedge between my kids by openly comparing them like that.
The middle school transition has been had for ds too. The workload has increased exponentially and having homework from several classes every night builds up. And several class teachers expect the kids to be self starters and have unrealistic expectations that the kids are self regulated to come in, be quiet, sit down and start doing work on their own before the bell rings. It’s been hard for him. I think he tries really hard all day at school to focus and control Himself that home often becomes the safe space to let his guard down. So all the stress of “being good” at school crashes him when he gets home and is faced with a mountain of homework. He also plays competitive sports so that physical outlet helps him too but makes evenings busier. All that to say, I think it’s normal for a lot of 6th grade boys so wouldn’t be too worried about it. It’s a stressful and hard transition.
Post by karinothing on Apr 1, 2024 12:01:51 GMT -5
kitty, the bad part is that math and spanish will both go on his HS transcript next year. So there is some pressure already (or at least will be soon!). Although he can re-take them in high school if he wants. I get that he is taking HS level classes (or will be) but it just sucks that I feel like all this comes so soon.
I am sorry that so many people have kids that are struggling. It seems so much harder then when I was a kid. Sometimes I think part of it is that he has access to his grades at every single second and can see them go up and down with each assignment test in real time. It seems like something that would add a lot of stress!
Post by W.T.Faulkner on Apr 1, 2024 12:12:36 GMT -5
As a parent: I’d send an email and copy the counselor on it describing how your son is feeling and saying that, while you appreciate their kind words about him, praising him publicly in front of everyone is having these unintended consequences. I’d follow up with just the counselor with your concerns.
As a teacher: I used to praise multiple kids in class constantly, but for actionable behavior that almost every single kid could do in that moment (ie taking a good note, active listening, having a good question, correcting their thinking after a mistake in the moment, reading the directions THE FULL ASS WAY THROUGH INSTEAD OF ASKING ME SHIT I ALREADY EXPLAINED), regardless of ability in that subject, and that praise stayed in my room. I’m lol’ing at these teachers thinking it’s a good idea to publicly and routinely call the attention of parents and other children to a single child in middle school. Adolescents already feel like everyone is looking at them all the time. Why the fresh fuck would you single him out in an EMAIL!?!?!?
I’m sorry he and you are going through this, but thank you for already taking steps to help him. The “stakes” — whether the kids create them or the schools do — only get higher from here on out, and helping him learn to love himself as he is, rather than what he thinks or what he thinks others think he should be, is the way to make sure he gets through these woods.
It seems so much harder then when I was a kid. Sometimes I think part of it is that he has access to his grades at every single second and can see them go up and down with each assignment test in real time. It seems like something that would add a lot of stress!
It is, and you make a great point about online gradebooks, which are both a blessing and a curse. Add in social media and the all-time low of acceptance rates at “top” colleges, and we have a generation of kids thinking they all have to be the most impressive or most attractive (whatever that means to them) out there.
It seems so much harder then when I was a kid. Sometimes I think part of it is that he has access to his grades at every single second and can see them go up and down with each assignment test in real time. It seems like something that would add a lot of stress!
It is, and you make a great point about online gradebooks, which are both a blessing and a curse. Add in social media and the all-time low of acceptance rates at “top” colleges, and we have a generation of kids thinking they all have to be the most impressive or most attractive (whatever that means to them) out there.
No kidding. I was watching some college acceptance videos on tiktok and I literally have zero idea how the heck anyone gets into college these days. I mean these kids have amazing backgrounds and still get rejected!
It is, and you make a great point about online gradebooks, which are both a blessing and a curse. Add in social media and the all-time low of acceptance rates at “top” colleges, and we have a generation of kids thinking they all have to be the most impressive or most attractive (whatever that means to them) out there.
No kidding. I was watching some college acceptance videos on tiktok and I literally have zero idea how the heck anyone gets into college these days. I mean these kids have amazing backgrounds and still get rejected!
I told my girls at school I wish I could throw their phones into the ocean for a year. A TikTok sabbatical. That fucking cursed app. lol
It is, and you make a great point about online gradebooks, which are both a blessing and a curse. Add in social media and the all-time low of acceptance rates at “top” colleges, and we have a generation of kids thinking they all have to be the most impressive or most attractive (whatever that means to them) out there.
No kidding. I was watching some college acceptance videos on tiktok and I literally have zero idea how the heck anyone gets into college these days. I mean these kids have amazing backgrounds and still get rejected!
seriously. My junior just got his SAT scores back - he and all his friends got mid 1300s-mid 1400s and all were DEVASTATED. I was shocked - they have this incredible pressure and think they need a 1500 to get into college. It’s unrealistic and ridiculous. I felt so bad for my kid that he got what it thought was an incredible score and he was so disappointed in himself. We are really screwing things up these days with this type of pressure.
It is, and you make a great point about online gradebooks, which are both a blessing and a curse. Add in social media and the all-time low of acceptance rates at “top” colleges, and we have a generation of kids thinking they all have to be the most impressive or most attractive (whatever that means to them) out there.
No kidding. I was watching some college acceptance videos on tiktok and I literally have zero idea how the heck anyone gets into college these days. I mean these kids have amazing backgrounds and still get rejected!
From T20 colleges.
Plenty of colleges will take these kids, but too many kids are applying to all these elite schools and think that all other schools suck/beneath them.
erbear , I do think the teachers think they are just complimenting his hard work, but I do wonder if it is a lot. Like i know his science teachers talks about him in other classes (like "you kids need to be more like DS"). And she has sent out multiple emails to all of her classes/families bragging about him..
This is completely inappropriate, and I’d ask this teacher to not discuss your child in other classes/parents.
I’d definitely have him talk to someone. Poor kid.
Yeah I was going to suggest OP you need to talk to his teacher’s asap. That’s not cool.
I would also let him stop all his after school activities for now if that is what he wants to do. Psych appointment is a great next step. Sounds like he could definitely use some additional supports and hopefully things improve.