Democrats openly talk about replacing Biden

[pixy0stix]

Jul 18, 2024 10:28:34 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jul 18, 2024 10:08:45 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

neverfstop - are you really saying the work many Black Americans put into the effort to elect Joe Biden is a sham?

As recently as March you were touting all his wins. Are you really going to let a poor debate and a media that is being funded by deep-pocketed racist Republicans influence your perspective?

No, I am not. I am saying the primaries in 2024 were in no way fair, democratic, or reflective of what most people wanted. 

This is not just about the debate. I think he's done a great job & surrounded himself by people who have done a great job. I don't think he's the best candidate to beat Trump. I think the Dems should be shouting from the rooftops all that the Biden-Harris administration has done, and that the Dems need to win in the white house & congress to keep delivering on their campaign promises. 

Because, as stated several times upthread, primaried presidents lose. The party wasn't going to go down that road unless it was completely necessary. We have no idea what most people wanted at the beginning of the season.

[laladypoet]

and as always, I think straight, cis-gendered white liberals need to STFU and listen to the marginalized communities. they have the most to lose. and the old white people are trying to nullify their primary votes. it's bullshit.

[elleblue]

Too bad everyone has refocused on this right now instead of the bizarre and chaotic RNC. *sigh*

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 18, 2024 10:28:34 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jul 18, 2024 10:08:45 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

neverfstop - are you really saying the work many Black Americans put into the effort to elect Joe Biden is a sham?

As recently as March you were touting all his wins. Are you really going to let a poor debate and a media that is being funded by deep-pocketed racist Republicans influence your perspective?

No, I am not. I am saying the primaries in 2024 were in no way fair, democratic, or reflective of what most people wanted. 

This is not just about the debate. I think he's done a great job & surrounded himself by people who have done a great job. I don't think he's the best candidate to beat Trump. I think the Dems should be shouting from the rooftops all that the Biden-Harris administration has done, and that the Dems need to win in the white house & congress to keep delivering on their campaign promises. 

How do you figure it wasn’t a democratic primary?

The time to pick another candidate was many, many months ago and the people didn’t do it. We are 109 days out from the election and many analysts (including Christopher Bouzy, who has nailed his predictions, and Alan Lichtman, who has correctly forecasted all but one election in the last 50 years) are saying Biden needs to stay in.

[laladypoet]

Jul 18, 2024 10:38:11 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Too bad everyone has refocused on this right now instead of the bizarre and chaotic RNC. *sigh*

the RNC is always bizarre and chaotic though. at least in recent memory.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 18, 2024 10:38:11 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Too bad everyone has refocused on this right now instead of the bizarre and chaotic RNC. *sigh*

I'm seeing articles about the weirdness of the convention, too. NYTimes has an article about the weirdos who are wearing ear bandages like Trump.

[lilac05]

Jul 18, 2024 10:38:03 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

and as always, I think straight, cis-gendered white liberals need to STFU and listen to the marginalized communities. they have the most to lose. and the old white people are trying to nullify their primary votes. it's bullshit.

I agree with you that we absolutely need to be listening to marginalized communities. This Pew Research poll from the spring only focused on the Black voters, but it shows it’s not at all clear cut. Back then, 49% of those polled wanted someone other than Biden/Trump (the same as general polling at the time showed), and support for Biden is less than in 2020 or support for Hillary in 2016.

www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/20/an-early-look-at-black-voters-views-on-biden-trump-and-election-2024/

I want Biden to be the President he has been 2020-2024 (oops…fixed that!)…but when those who work with him daily are increasingly showing concerns, I think it’s noteworthy. We’re voting now for who is going to be running our country in 2027.

I’ll still vote blue no matter who…but I think Kamala is our winning ticket. And the sooner we can rally around her and show the country what a brilliant, effective leader she is and will be, the better. Should have been done 18 months ago.

[TR]

Jul 18, 2024 10:58:42 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 18, 2024 10:38:11 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Too bad everyone has refocused on this right now instead of the bizarre and chaotic RNC. *sigh*

I'm seeing articles about the weirdness of the convention, too. NYTimes has an article about the weirdos who are wearing ear bandages like Trump.

And the guy who gave a speech with his dog in a chair on stage? lol almost as weird as Clint Eastwood talking to the empty chair.

[sequins]

At this point, I think the media has created a situation where Biden couldn't win in Nov even if he was the perfect candidate. Nothing he does will be enough to shut them up. We are losing to the news media's obsession and need for chaos.

[sequins]

If the polls don't improve, watch kamala getting thrown under the bus for manufactured reasons. And how we should have had an open convention with whitmer/cooper/shapiro/newsom on the ballot.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 18, 2024 11:03:02 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 18, 2024 10:58:42 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I'm seeing articles about the weirdness of the convention, too. NYTimes has an article about the weirdos who are wearing ear bandages like Trump.

And the guy who gave a speech with his dog in a chair on stage? lol almost as weird as Clint Eastwood talking to the empty chair.

I saw an interview on why he brought the dog, and he does it simply because people always smile at the dog and the guy likes making people smile. I didn't hear anything about his speech, it was all about the dog.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 18, 2024 11:02:45 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Jul 18, 2024 10:38:03 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

and as always, I think straight, cis-gendered white liberals need to STFU and listen to the marginalized communities. they have the most to lose. and the old white people are trying to nullify their primary votes. it's bullshit.

I agree with you that we absolutely need to be listening to marginalized communities. This Pew Research poll from the spring only focused on the Black voters, but it shows it’s not at all clear cut. Back then, 49% of those polled wanted someone other than Biden/Trump (the same as general polling at the time showed), and support for Biden is less than in 2020 or support for Hillary in 2016.

www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/20/an-early-look-at-black-voters-views-on-biden-trump-and-election-2024/

I want Biden to be the President he has been 2016-2020…but when those who work with him daily are increasingly showing concerns, I think it’s noteworthy. We’re voting now for who is going to be running our country in 2027.

I’ll still vote blue no matter who…but I think Kamala is our winning ticket. And the sooner we can rally around her and show the country what a brilliant, effective leader she is and will be, the better. Should have been done 18 months ago.

I know this was a typo, but Biden has been President from 2020-2024, not 2016-2020.

Also, please tell me which of the white men calling for Biden to drop out is also saying they will support Harris. They are calling for Biden to drop out because they don’t want her to be president, and there are many Black leaders who are saying this too.

[heat40]

Many of those wanting him to drop out are wanting an open convention to pick someone new. Completely overlooking Harris. Which is bullshit. If they are serious about saving democracy, she would be the only way to do it if Biden is not it. That’s what she’s VP for. But I suspect she’s not who they want. So here we are with a self inflicted wound, and no sign of healing.

[cous0226]

any ideas on who Pelosi /Schumer/Hakeem want to run then if Harris is not in the cards for them?

and what happens if Biden wants to pass the torch to Kamala but noone else wants that? Are all these other clowns gonna say let's have an open convention? There is simply no time for another person (with little name recognition, not vetted) to put together a campaign, get staff, resign from your current job and get all your shit together in a matter of a few months.

This is such a fucking disaster.

[lilac05]

Jul 18, 2024 11:08:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jul 18, 2024 11:02:45 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I agree with you that we absolutely need to be listening to marginalized communities. This Pew Research poll from the spring only focused on the Black voters, but it shows it’s not at all clear cut. Back then, 49% of those polled wanted someone other than Biden/Trump (the same as general polling at the time showed), and support for Biden is less than in 2020 or support for Hillary in 2016.

www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/20/an-early-look-at-black-voters-views-on-biden-trump-and-election-2024/

I want Biden to be the President he has been 2016-2020…but when those who work with him daily are increasingly showing concerns, I think it’s noteworthy. We’re voting now for who is going to be running our country in 2027.

I’ll still vote blue no matter who…but I think Kamala is our winning ticket. And the sooner we can rally around her and show the country what a brilliant, effective leader she is and will be, the better. Should have been done 18 months ago.

I know this was a typo, but Biden has been President from 2020-2024, not 2016-2020.

Also, please tell me which of the white men calling for Biden to drop out is also saying they will support Harris. They are calling for Biden to drop out because they don’t want her to be president, and there are many Black leaders who are saying this too.

Oops. I’ll fix those years!

Honestly, I haven’t seen anyone official in the party throwing out ANY names yet (and I think it would be inappropriate for party leadership to be publicly putting out other names while Biden is running. Asking for him to step down and endorsing someone else are two different things). And haven’t seen for calls for an open convention, either. If they’re asking him to back out now so she can’t become President, that’s obvious racism. Not saying they haven’t been done, just that I haven’t seen it. Skipping over Kamala would be a recipe for disaster, in my opinion. I think she is our best (and possibly only) hope for beating Trump at this point. I believe we are ready for her as President and I think she would be fantastic.

I’d love to see a Harris/Buttigieg ticket, but I think that might be a step too far for America accepting ALL people. People will hold their noses and vote for someone who has been married 3x, cheated on all of his wives, and countless other atrocious things…but a man (seemingly very) happily married to another man is somehow more sacrilegious. (And they wonder WHY people are leaving churches in droves…)

[anodyne]

Add Obama to the list.

Obama tells allies Biden needs to seriously consider his viability
The former president, hugely influential in the party, has told associates that Biden’s path to victory has significantly shrunk.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/18/obama-says-biden-must-consider-viability/

[TR]

Jul 18, 2024 13:13:32 GMT -5 anodyne said:

Add Obama to the list.

Obama tells allies Biden needs to seriously consider his viability
The former president, hugely influential in the party, has told associates that Biden’s path to victory has significantly shrunk.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/18/obama-says-biden-must-consider-viability/

I read this and I think they're really working hard to make it sound like Obama thinks Biden should drop out. Generally just being concerned about polls and caring about Biden's legacy doesn't mean that he thinks Biden should drop out. We're all concerned lol

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 18, 2024 13:18:45 GMT -5 TR said:

Jul 18, 2024 13:13:32 GMT -5 anodyne said:

Add Obama to the list.

Obama tells allies Biden needs to seriously consider his viability
The former president, hugely influential in the party, has told associates that Biden’s path to victory has significantly shrunk.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/18/obama-says-biden-must-consider-viability/

I read this and I think they're really working hard to make it sound like Obama thinks Biden should drop out. Generally just being concerned about polls and caring about Biden's legacy doesn't mean that he thinks Biden should drop out. We're all concerned lol

For sure, Obama hasn’t said anything about him dropping out. This is just more deep pocket media bullshit.

[chchchia]

Jul 18, 2024 11:57:17 GMT -5 heat40 said:

Many of those wanting him to drop out are wanting an open convention to pick someone new. Completely overlooking Harris. Which is bullshit. If they are serious about saving democracy, she would be the only way to do it if Biden is not it. That’s what she’s VP for. But I suspect she’s not who they want. So here we are with a self inflicted wound, and no sign of healing.

This is the truest statement I've heard today.  They need to see a way to treat the self-inflicted wound or, in my opinion, there is no hope. 

[docholly]

The Biden hand-wringing makes the whole party look bad. That’s what I don’t get… the leadership doesn’t look conscientious and ethical. They look like panicky asshats… or worse, like people who thought he was deteriorating mentally all along and only are speaking out because they got “caught” with his debate performance.

I feel like the public would have moved on long ago if there would have been a pivot to his accomplishments… especially considering all the chaos on the other side.

If they truly believe he needs to step aside, there seems to be a better way to go about it from the public relations perspective.

I don’t see HOW this is recoverable… there is a lack of credibility. Biden has had a pretty successful four years and somehow our message is… “we let a person losing his faculties run the show for four years.

I don’t believe that, but that is the message.

This honestly feels like political sabotage, but I know it is just incompetence.

[TR]

"panicky asshats" LOL so accurate

[picksthemusic]

If Bouzy is saying he needs to stay in, I'm all for it. Bouzy has been the most correct of them all.

[aurora]

Jul 18, 2024 11:08:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Jul 18, 2024 11:02:45 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I agree with you that we absolutely need to be listening to marginalized communities. This Pew Research poll from the spring only focused on the Black voters, but it shows it’s not at all clear cut. Back then, 49% of those polled wanted someone other than Biden/Trump (the same as general polling at the time showed), and support for Biden is less than in 2020 or support for Hillary in 2016.

www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/20/an-early-look-at-black-voters-views-on-biden-trump-and-election-2024/

I want Biden to be the President he has been 2016-2020…but when those who work with him daily are increasingly showing concerns, I think it’s noteworthy. We’re voting now for who is going to be running our country in 2027.

I’ll still vote blue no matter who…but I think Kamala is our winning ticket. And the sooner we can rally around her and show the country what a brilliant, effective leader she is and will be, the better. Should have been done 18 months ago.

I know this was a typo, but Biden has been President from 2020-2024, not 2016-2020.

Also, please tell me which of the white men calling for Biden to drop out is also saying they will support Harris. They are calling for Biden to drop out because they don’t want her to be president, and there are many Black leaders who are saying this too.

Jon Stewart interviewed a few people on his Weekly Show podcast last week and both he and Jon Favreau (of Pod Save America, former speechwriter for Obama) said this. ETA said that Biden should drop out for Harris to be the nominee.

Of course racism is playing a huge role in the conversation - I'm not denying that - but there are definitely opinions all over the place.

[Pom]

Democrats in Disarray. Week 3.

This is so fucked.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 18, 2024 14:27:32 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

If Bouzy is saying he needs to stay in, I'm all for it. Bouzy has been the most correct of them all.

Bouzy and Lichtman are both emphatically saying that Biden / Harris is the only way we win (although both have said if Biden steps down, it has to be Harris at the top for us to have even a fighting chance.)

And Bouzy is outright stating that if we try any other candidate, Trump runs away with the election with over 300 electoral college votes. And we will lose down ballot races too.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jul 18, 2024 14:44:41 GMT -5 aurora said:

Jul 18, 2024 11:08:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I know this was a typo, but Biden has been President from 2020-2024, not 2016-2020.

Also, please tell me which of the white men calling for Biden to drop out is also saying they will support Harris. They are calling for Biden to drop out because they don’t want her to be president, and there are many Black leaders who are saying this too.

Jon Stewart interviewed a few people on his Weekly Show podcast last week and both he and Jon Favreau (of Pod Save America, former speechwriter for Obama) said this. ETA said that Biden should drop out for Harris to be the nominee.

Of course racism is playing a huge role in the conversation - I'm not denying that - but there are definitely opinions all over the place.

But none of the other high level folks are. This is because they have no intention of having her on the ticket.

[cous0226]

How do they think they are going to tell Biden step down and no we don’t want Kamala either. He’s going to tell everyone to F off.

[sent]

Are any of these people up for re-election? Because it sounds like they're just saying stuff to keep their names in the media and stay relevant. Otherwise there seems like no reason this couldn't have been shut down the minute after anyone tried to say anything after the debate.

[elleblue]

Jul 18, 2024 16:31:35 GMT -5 sent said:

Are any of these people up for re-election? Because it sounds like they're just saying stuff to keep their names in the media and stay relevant. Otherwise there seems like no reason this couldn't have been shut down the minute after anyone tried to say anything after the debate.

It's money. The deep pockets that help fund their campaigns are nervous and/don't like Biden's attitudes (promised taxes) for the super wealthy.

[sent]

Jul 18, 2024 16:52:39 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Jul 18, 2024 16:31:35 GMT -5 sent said:

Are any of these people up for re-election? Because it sounds like they're just saying stuff to keep their names in the media and stay relevant. Otherwise there seems like no reason this couldn't have been shut down the minute after anyone tried to say anything after the debate.

It's money. The deep pockets that help fund their campaigns are nervous and/don't like Biden's attitudes (promised taxes) for the super wealthy.

As a small business owner in a blue state, I feel like all I do is pay taxes. Those taxes helped fund the big road renovation on my commute that fixed a lot of traffic headaches. The state taxes allow my employees to have paid leaves up to 3 months for a temporary disability or caring for a sick family member. They pay for FEMA to aid in rebuilding the community when we have a flood every few years so the town doesn't look all run down because the mostly average people couldn't afford to raise their houses. Etc. 

Why do they hate taxes so much when they have more than enough? Rhetorical question. We have a nice and cushy high standard of living because of our taxes, minus the healthcare problems. UGH.