I need family advice....(update in original post)

[maudefindlay]

You know you don't want her to keep living there. Both you and your DH are on board with it. You are not a bad person. She is washing her hands of your Dad and carrying on. Sounds like their relationship is ending. I see no reason for her to live there. Tell her she has till x date to get her stuff out.

[mofongo]

I agree with consulting with a lawyer asap, and I wouldn’t respond to her until you do. I think I’d want to say that no, if he goes into a facility you will not be allowed to live there anymore. Change the locks if it’s legally ok. But I’d want to know for sure you can do all of those things before saying something. And you would be well within your rights to point out that she has left and is leaving all of the hard tasks to you, so why in the hell would she expect to be able to live there!

Also sorry, that’s just shitty and hard:(

[momof2]

Oct 14, 2024 14:01:41 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Oct 14, 2024 13:53:48 GMT -5 momof2 said:

I also have a terrible dad who started dating within weeks of my mom’s death. He remarried a woman that makes terrible choices, including marrying him. I would not let this woman move back into this home in a million years. She is a bad decision maker that you will have to evict. Tell her that she is not in the paperwork and you are the homeowner. Change the locks before you tell her this. Run like the wind from having contact with her.

Definitely don't just change the locks.  Your state might require that she be legally evicted.

Well, I didn’t mean to do it without a legal consult. But, I know multiple situations like this where new spouse who doesn’t want to care for ailing spouse has come in and starting taking things (or their kids have come in and taken things) that were absolutely premarital assets and there was essentially no recourse. I would absolutely move as quickly as possible to get access removed. And if my dad had a safe (for example, with important paperwork, my dead mom’s jewelry, etc), I would go ahead and get it out of the house this woman has keys to if I had the legal right to do so. Once a spouse is “done,” things can go very, very badly.

At this point, it isn’t even clear to me where this person’s state of residence even is. Will she vote in the other state? I don’t know.

I would also sort out who had decision making authority. For example, my terrible father keeps telling me he wants to be buried next to my dead mother. But, I don’t think I have that legal authority and I am virtually certain that new wife (who will not do much for him) will never, ever agree to that. I washed my hands of their nonsense, but if I cared about this, I would really want to try to figure all that out.

[circa1978]

Team attorney. Sorry you are dealing with this. It's a hard time of life. Stranger hugs.

[mich1]

I think that even if you hold the deed, the fact that she's been a resident in this home for several years, even part time, means that you cannot just change the locks on her. She's established a residence there with your dad, which changes things. As others have said, you need to find out what your rights are and what rights she is entitled to before doing anything.
As others have said, you need to consult an attorney about this, and probably sooner than later.

[definitelyO]

not a lawyer - but if she moves out to Arizona - then I would think there is no eviction (dumbing it way down). If she wants to live there (and you're okay with having her there) she needs to sign a lease and pay rent - IF you want to allow that.

but of course - talk with a professional. 

[texasharleygirl]

Oct 14, 2024 13:49:29 GMT -5 followyourarrow said:

I'd reach out to a lawyer to see what the best legal move here is. My GUESS is that letting her come back when he's not there COULD have legal consequences.

This was my first thought.  I would be talking to a lawyer to find out what, if any rights, she may have; possible future consequences, etc.     But if she leaves to go to AZ and leaves you to deal with your dad and all the stuff behind moving him and upkeep of the house, etc, I would be telling her that she would need to look for a place to go to for the summers and give her a date that she would have to have everything out. 

Good luck OP.

[cville]

Oct 14, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Oct 14, 2024 13:48:32 GMT -5 TR said:

I know she's not mentioned in the paperwork, but is your dad of sound enough mind still to ask his opinion on this?

He might be able to answer the question, but legally once a dementia diagnosis is involved, the person may not be competent unfortunately.

I wouldn't consult with the dad here for many reasons, including competence, but I'd also not communciate anything related to this over text.

OP I'd get thee to an attorney with the quickness. Estate attorneys should have experience in dementia-related needs. A person who is not competent could also be easily influenced to take legal actions (like changing a deed) before being legally declared unable to do so.

My grandfather was influenced after he was first diagnosed with alzheimers by a relative I won't specify to cut several very (very) large checks to said relative and some others in the interim period before the financial POA kicked in for my mom (it was a springing POA).

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Oct 14, 2024 14:21:43 GMT -5 momof2 said:

Oct 14, 2024 14:01:41 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Definitely don't just change the locks.  Your state might require that she be legally evicted.

Well, I didn’t mean to do it without a legal consult. But, I know multiple situations like this where new spouse who doesn’t want to care for ailing spouse has come in and starting taking things (or their kids have come in and taken things) that were absolutely premarital assets and there was essentially no recourse. I would absolutely move as quickly as possible to get access removed. And if my dad had a safe (for example, with important paperwork, my dead mom’s jewelry, etc), I would go ahead and get it out of the house this woman has keys to if I had the legal right to do so. Once a spouse is “done,” things can go very, very badly.

At this point, it isn’t even clear to me where this person’s state of residence even is. Will she vote in the other state? I don’t know.

I would also sort out who had decision making authority. For example, my terrible father keeps telling me he wants to be buried next to my dead mother. But, I don’t think I have that legal authority and I am virtually certain that new wife (who will not do much for him) will never, ever agree to that. I washed my hands of their nonsense, but if I cared about this, I would really want to try to figure all that out.

Well you didn't say that in your original post.  

[keyslover]

Oct 14, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Oct 14, 2024 13:48:32 GMT -5 TR said:

I know she's not mentioned in the paperwork, but is your dad of sound enough mind still to ask his opinion on this?

He might be able to answer the question, but legally once a dementia diagnosis is involved, the person may not be competent unfortunately.

Competency is fluid for legal purposes. It’s not as cut and dry as dementia equals incompetence.

My 2 cents- look at the deed before decisions are made. If it’s yours, then proceed as you wish.

[cville]

Oct 14, 2024 14:18:13 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

You know you don't want her to keep living there. Both you and your DH are on board with it. You are not a bad person. She is washing her hands of your Dad and carrying on. Sounds like their relationship is ending. I see no reason for her to live there. Tell her she has till x date to get her stuff out.

Even if dad's lady friend wasn't tapping out of caring for an unkind person through his dementia, OP would be not a bad person for saying no. Informal living arrangements get real messy, really fast. It's fine not to want to opt into something like that. The woman isn't homeless or indigent.

At minimum, if OP lets this lady stay, they should have a contract.*


*Note: This is the kind of thought process and communication style that caused my ILs to hold a decade long grudge and act like asshats rather than tell me and my husband how they felt. So, proceed with caution.

[tacokick]

She probably wouldn’t be considered a resident in the river house area because her primary address should be in AZ where she owns property and apparently spends most of the year since she doesn’t want to live in the house for the rest of the fall or winter or even spring.

The threshold for residency is like 180+ days in most areas. It doesn’t sound like she hits that and lot of snowbirds don’t want to for various tax reasons. She’s not on the deed and there doesn’t seem to be a mortgage, lease or rental agreement in her name. Basically it’s like she’s been a guest on a long vacation every summer.

That should make everything easier.

If she is leaving voluntarily, there is no need for an eviction and you can do whatever you want with the house. I think if she really thought she had a claim or wanted to make trouble she’d stay put and not go back to her home in AZ.

[cville]

Also, on a non-attorney note, caring for an aging relative, caring for someone with dementia, and caring for someone with whom you have a challenging history is extremely draining and emotional quicksand.

OP, you're trying to be thoughtful and careful and attend to a complicated person's complicated needs. You're to be commended for your efforts. Take care of you.




One more attorney thing (can't help myself)--figure out if he has a will, who the executor is if so, and whether in your state you need a Healthcare directive, POA, or whatever to have authority to make relevant decisions and funds available to you to carry them out. If you want to. You can also say no to all of this, deal only with the river house issues, and peace out otherwise.

[AdaraMarie]

Morally I think you are in the clear to do whatever you want, I agree that her text might have been info seeking so she can make plans if she needs to. If you are concerned about her taking things from the house than maybe don't answer for a while.

[dexteroni]

Oct 14, 2024 13:50:28 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

if your dad ends up going into LTC and her name isn't on the deed, then she needs to find another place to stay.

This. penelope once he’s out, she’s out. And she knows this is a likely possibility which is why she reached out to you (and with a shitty tone, I might add). Just speak with a lawyer first to make sure you can do that legally, and how you should go about it (how much notice do you have to give, etc).

Oh and as for your question as to whether you’re just being bitter - no, not at all.

[karinothing]

Wait okay, is she essentially leaving him? I guess I don't understand their relationship status at this point. I think that would change things for me. Like if they are still together I would probably be more sympathetic? If not (which sounds like no, since she is just leaving) then I would speak to an atty.

[rockpaperscissors]

Not a lawyer at all but I would also address his ownership of the AZ house. Not sure of the laws in your state regarding assets and the payment for long term care (or your dads finances/ability to pay). In my experience with aging grandparents, in order to qualify for state funding for long term care, assets had to be sold.

[jinkies]

I also want to say that while her tone and timing suck, it's not unreasonable for her to want to know if she should be spending the next week packing up all of her belongings, or if she will be allowed to come back.

I would really try to get a lawyer to talk to you as soon as possible. I'm assuming there was a lawyer involved in the quit claim-- I'd start with them.

Like others though, I'm pretty curious about what she would say about the state of their relationship if she is leaving for an extended stay in another state with his health in question and so much unresolved. It certainly *sounds* like they are breaking up, but I really have no idea how the law would see any of this, or about her rights to the house.

[dexteroni]

Oct 14, 2024 15:13:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Wait okay, is she essentially leaving him? I guess I don't understand their relationship status at this point. I think that would change things for me. Like if they are still together I would probably be more sympathetic? If not (which sounds like no, since she is just leaving) then I would speak to an atty.

Even if they aren’t breaking up, I wouldn’t have much sympathy for someone who ditches their sick partner for ~6 months just to go enjoy winter in a warm climate.

[fivechickens]

Oct 14, 2024 13:57:39 GMT -5 penelope said:

TR, donutsmakemegonuts,

Honestly, no, I don't want her there. And I kind of agree with my H. But I question if I am just being bitter.

As far as I can tell/read you have every right to the house, she does not, so take the bitter part out of it (which I know is hard my dad is an asshole/terrible dad). The house is/will be yours (and your bros?). She has no right to it.

Also, like others have said, consult with an attorney.

[livinitup]

My ML (non-legal) advice: Any permission to return as a tenant should accompany a rental agreement and a signed lease with start/end date. A good lease will detail what she can expect you to cover and what you can expect her to pay (even minimally, or no payment). It sounds like she hasn’t been paying anything (?) and wants to continue that? I would have that clearly determined and specified in the lease you offer.

Continue that for year to year. No one has to decide what you are going to offer “forever”.

There are advantages to having someone living in a residence rather than let it stand empty (even parts of the year) (insurance, security, utility usage). If you don’t see an advantage, a real advantage for YOU, then don’t offer a lease agreement.

Since you reported that she has financial means, it seems normal that she is asking (rather than assuming) she can come back to where she has lived for years. So, if you say no, she can find somewhere else.

[glw]

Oct 14, 2024 15:57:40 GMT -5 livinitup said:

There are advantages to having someone living in a residence rather than let it stand empty (even parts of the year) 

This was my first thought as well. I personally would prefer to have the house occupied and would draw up a very detailed lease agreement for her to continue living there part of the year. But, if you would rather the house be fully vacant then I'd find out from a lawyer what your state allows as far as eviction and then let her know ASAP the date by which she needs to be fully moved out.

[rhian]

It sounds like your question is really whether you owe this woman anything. You don't want to let her stay in the house, but you're not sure if that would be an asshole move. I agree with everyone else that given that she seems to be peacing out when he needs support and care, you don't owe her anything. You're not an asshole if you tell her she can no longer live in the house.

I think if she were living there while caring for him, participating in finding him long term care, etc, there would be more of a decision to be made as to what the "right" thing to do is. But since she doesn't seem to feel obligated to care for your father, I don't think you (as an extension of your father) have any obligation to care for her by allowing her to live in a house you own.

I agree with getting legal advice on how to actually go about doing this, but not allowing her to stay is completely reasonable and not at all an asshole thing to do. I'm sorry you're dealing with all this!

[mokes]

The tone of her text would be enough for me to let her know she should be planning to move out when she leaves for winter. I’m totally with your DH!

I don’t fault her for bowing out of caring for someone who didn’t treat her well but that means you don’t get access to his (daughter’s) house anymore either, lady. You don’t get it both ways. She lived there because he did. If he’s not living there anymore, why would she? And the fact that she thinks she has some claim without having any paperwork to that effect … it’s a nope for me.

[fiddles]

Oct 14, 2024 13:42:31 GMT -5 penelope said:

His girlfriend texted me this weekend and said that if he goes into a home during the winter, while she is gone, that I need to let her know if I am going to be kicking her out because otherwise, she is coming back to live there in the summers. 

Not having anything personal in the situation, it sounds like to me she's just trying to figure out if she needs other living arrangements when she moves back.  Which, I think that would be something that we all would like to know if in that situation.  Definitely consult an attorney, but it's also okay for you to say you don't want her in the house.  The bigger issue will be the house in AZ as it's jointly owned.

[icedcoffee]

She’s basically breaking up with him which is shitty but her right, but it also means you don’t need to have any relationship with her. I’d let her know she should move out and find somewhere else to go.

[wanderingback]

I have no desire to be a landlord so this would be any easy decision for me. You certainly don’t have to be an asshole, just let her know you don’t want to be a landlord and that your family has plans to use the house. I personally wouldn’t jump to getting an attorney specifically for this unless she ignored your request to move out. That’s at least how I operate!

[hermione]

I’d consult an attorney just to sure everything was legally correct. Then I’d tell her she should plan to return to pack her things.

[isabel]

I'm sure this has been covered, but my concern would be that she'll come back and then refuse to leave for the winter and you'll have a whole situation on your hands with getting her removed. I, frankly, would not let her move back to the house.

Can she stay in the Arizona home? What is the situation on ownership with that property?

[raleighnc]

I would first talk to a lawyer and make sure your dad can't do anything with the deed (like change it to be in her name). I have no idea how it works, but changing it from being joint with your brother to solely in your name because your dad and bro fell out makes me cautious. I would also try to find out how his share of the property in AZ will impact his long-term care finances.

Then I would tell her that since it seems like LTC is coming quickly and you don't know what or when it's going to happen, she should move her stuff out before she goes to AZ. Who knows, you may decide that you need to rent the house out to someone else for extra money.

You are not bitter. Clear is kind. She obviously has considered this. More notice is better.