I need family advice....(update in original post)

[penelope]

This is kind of long but I think the back story matters.....My mother passed 8 years ago and my father immediately (meaning, weeks) found someone else to take care of him.  He is an asshole and treated my mom like garbage but she stuck around because cancer and health insurance.  I was pretty bitter at first about seeing him treat someone else so kindly and kept my distance from them for a while.  Then his true colors came out and he was just as mean and cruel to her as he was to my mom.  Her husband passed a couple of months prior to them starting to date and I believe she was so desperate and lonely that she ignored all of the warnings (small town, many people warned her that my father is an asshole and to not get involved).  I started to get to know her at a distance a few years ago and I do feel bad for her, he hasn't been kind to her.

Fast forward 8 years and they are still together.  She sold her house, had a condo for a bit, gave that up and moved in with him.  They bought a small place together in AZ for the winters and did the snowbird thing for a few years.  My dad suddenly refused to go back to AZ this winter and started doing odd things and cognitive testing shows he has a fast moving type of dementia caused by a brain bleed 25 years ago.  She is still leaving for AZ this winter (in a week or so) and I am dealing with plans for daily meal delivery, daily caretaker check ins, snow removal, etc.  A long term facility is coming sooner rather than later.

My father's house is on the water and has been in my family since the 30's.  When my mom died he put it in my name and my bro's (since changed to only me) to make sure the state couldn't take it in a situation like this.  His girlfriend texted me this weekend and said that if he goes into a home during the winter, while she is gone, that I need to let her know if I am going to be kicking her out because otherwise, she is coming back to live there in the summers.  Her text comes across as if she has every right to stay there forever.  I haven't replied because I don't know how to.  DH is very, fuck that.  She is leaving for the winter and leaving you with the hard stuff, dealing with a fast progressing dementia, finding a home, getting him moved in, etc., and if she leaves this winter, she doesn't come back to stay there with him gone.  I realize it's been her home for a couple of years now. But I do question her keeping this house as a summer retreat when he is no longer living there.  H and I tossed around the possibility of moving there at some point but have no firm plans for it. Keeping it as a family camp, at least at first, would be a more likely plan.  I feel like, I could see the first summer back to let her get her shit together and find something somewhere else but not allow her to use it forever that way.  She said my father included her being able to stay there as long as she wants in the quit claim deed (updated 4 years ago to remove my bro as he and my father haven't spoke since my mom's funeral) but this is not true.  She is not mentioned in any of the paperwork, at all.  

What does ML say?  Would you just let her continue to use it as if its hers for as long as she wants?  Or until he passes away? Would you tell her to to start looking and that she needs to move in the spring, as soon as something changes with his situation?  Or give her a little time but not a lot?  I fear my early, bumpy relationship with her might taint my feelings.  If it matters at all, she is very well off and she is not in a situation of being unable to afford something.  It wouldn't be tossing a senior out on the street with nothing.  I want to do what's right and maybe if it wasn't a family home built by my grandparents I would feel differently?  H says I am too nice in every aspect and get taken advantage of (i.e., sure I can help, I don't mind! kind of things).  Please give me advice and if I need to take a step back and see things from a different viewpoint help me to do that.  I just don't see why she would expect to stay there long term if he is gone from the premises.


Update/Thank you:

Thank you to everyone that took the time to respond! Because of this, yesterday afternoon I made an appointment for an initial consultation with a lawyer for tomorrow afternoon. I knew I needed to from a Medicaid standpoint, but I didn't even think about things like tenants rights or evictions or her legal place of residence...wow, talk about overwhelming and I hope legal advice will relieve some of the stress. Thanks for that kick in the butt that I needed.

I do have some weird sense of obligation to her, yet I can't pin point why and a lot of your responses helped confirm for me that I don't have to. I appreciate that as well. One of my biggest pieces of confusion with her is that if I were in her shoes I wouldn't even consider what she is planning and I can't wrap my head around what she is thinking. She doesn't see leaving as a break up, nor does she see it as abandoning him. She actually told me, she has to come back and live there because she can't abandon him when he needs her. Again, left speechless. I need to see what the lawyer says and then have a real conversation with her.  And I agree, she may just be looking for information to create a plan, which is why I need to talk to her.

I knew if I was out of line or the asshole in the conversation, Married Life wouldn't be afraid to tell me. I appreciate your support and feedback!!  

[TR]

I know she's not mentioned in the paperwork, but is your dad of sound enough mind still to ask his opinion on this?

[followyourarrow]

I'd reach out to a lawyer to see what the best legal move here is. My GUESS is that letting her come back when he's not there COULD have legal consequences.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Well, what do you want to do? I personally think that if your dad ends up going into LTC and her name isn't on the deed, then she needs to find another place to stay. If that means you give her a grace period to find something and she stays there temporarily, then that's fine too. Do you want her to stay there?

[ssmjlm]

Honestly I would possibly consult with an estate attorney just to make sure everything is clear on ownership and usage, etc.

How you communicate after that is up to you, but I would give her the courtesy of sooner than later letting her know she needs to have another housing situation setup when she returns.

[bex1973]

I agree with your H that she's leaving you to take care of all the messy stuff and that is shitty. I do not think she is owed anything. I would probably give some time but not too long for her to find something else if she wants a home in that area.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Oct 14, 2024 13:48:32 GMT -5 TR said:

I know she's not mentioned in the paperwork, but is your dad of sound enough mind still to ask his opinion on this?

He might be able to answer the question, but legally once a dementia diagnosis is involved, the person may not be competent unfortunately.

[flygirl]

I would get an attorney and find out what you’re allowed to do. You may have to file to officially evict her. But if you own the house and you want to give her 30 days in the summer, I might be nice and do it since she put up with your dad for 8 yrs.

[momof2]

I also have a terrible dad who started dating within weeks of my mom’s death. He remarried a woman that makes terrible choices, including marrying him. I would not let this woman move back into this home in a million years. She is a bad decision maker that you will have to evict. Tell her that she is not in the paperwork and you are the homeowner. Change the locks before you tell her this. Run like the wind from having contact with her.

[meanie]

What do you mean by "put it in your name"? Was there an actual transfer of assets and you hold the deed, or is the property in a trust and you are listed as the beneficiary?

I am guessing trust, but if not ignore this next part -

It won't be as simple as just "letting" her continue to live there - the estate will go into probate and assuming nothing was changed since what you last were told, the house will eventually be put in your name. The estate will be paying for the utilities, taxes, etc on the property during that time and once it is transferred to your name you will take over.

I wouldn't even give her a response right now; your dad is still alive and she seems to just be trying to stir up trouble. I would want to make sure I had copies of everything - his will and any trust docs.

[penelope]

TR, donutsmakemegonuts,

Honestly, no, I don't want her there. And I kind of agree with my H. But I question if I am just being bitter.


Is my father of sound mind? Some days yes and others, no. I guess I would have to catch him on the right day in the right moment. I can't help but feel that he was of sound mind 4 years ago and her name was left out of everything so that kind of matters doesn't it?

[penelope]

Oct 14, 2024 13:55:28 GMT -5 meanie said:

What do you mean by "put it in your name"? Was there an actual transfer of assets and you hold the deed, or is the property in a trust and you are listed as the beneficiary?

I am guessing trust, but if not ignore this next part -

It won't be as simple as just "letting" her continue to live there - the estate will go into probate and assuming nothing was changed since what you last were told, the house will eventually be put in your name. The estate will be paying for the utilities, taxes, etc on the property during that time and once it is transferred to your name you will take over.

I wouldn't even give her a response right now; your dad is still alive and she seems to just be trying to stir up trouble. I would want to make sure I had copies of everything - his will and any trust docs.

I hold the deed.

[fluffycookie]

I would consult an attorney and see what options you have. My fear would be if she came back it would be hard to remove her.

[Jalapeñomel]

They aren’t married? Is there common law issues?

I’d consult a lawyer regardless.

[orangello]

Get an estate attorney’s advice.

Bottom line - you are the homeowner. She does not get to dictate information about your property.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Oct 14, 2024 13:53:48 GMT -5 momof2 said:

I also have a terrible dad who started dating within weeks of my mom’s death. He remarried a woman that makes terrible choices, including marrying him. I would not let this woman move back into this home in a million years. She is a bad decision maker that you will have to evict. Tell her that she is not in the paperwork and you are the homeowner. Change the locks before you tell her this. Run like the wind from having contact with her.

Definitely don't just change the locks.  Your state might require that she be legally evicted.

[midwestmama]

Agree with others on consulting an attorney, especially if you need to go through an eviction process. If it were me, I would sever all ties to her (once any legal processes are completed), meaning I would not allow her to access the home anymore, even as a visitor. It would be one thing if you were on good terms with her/had a good relationship with her, but it sounds like it's not the case. (I'm probably along the lines of your H on this, penelope.) We have family home that's been in the family since the 1920s, and I am sharing my thoughts from the lens of if this were my family's home.

[sarahsays]

I would 100% consult a lawyer but even if I decided to let her stay there it would be with some kind of rental agreement in place.

[tacokick]

I don’t know her but it sounds info seeking to me. Maybe she thinks you’d rather her be there in the summer than let it sit empty? Who knows?

It sounds to me that she knows she doesn’t have legal right to the property. She has somewhere else to live. Maybe she wants to make sure she takes everything with her when she goes if you don’t want her back.

Since you don’t want her back so tell her that and go from there.

Then change the locks when she’s left for home.

Fingers crossed it’s not as big of a deal as you think but if she’s not on the deed and doesn’t even live there then there really isn’t much she can do even if she wanted to. You have the deed, she can look it up or you can give her a copy.

[jinkies]

Are they co-owners of the AZ condo? Is that home at risk if his care becomes expensive?

I would offer her time next year to make other arrangements. But I think this situation will require legal help regardless.

Is she doing anything at all to assist since his diagnosis to set up care when she leaves? If not, that speaks for itself in terms of the seriousness (or un-seriousness) of their relationship. Is there any expectation that she will visit him at all over the winter and will need a place to stay? Or were they pretty much just co-existing in the same house and she is not going to be involved now that he is sick?

I would try to offer a reasonable compromise (something between "I never want to see you again once you leave for AZ" and "Sure, stay at the house that I own indefinitely") but the specifics would probably depend on her need for a home base to see your dad as his health declines.

[lust2hart]

For what it's worth, I don't think you need to do anything at all about this right now, since your father is still at the house. But if you want to get a head start, I agree with meeting with an estate attorney and/or whoever drew up your father's paperwork. However, I do agree with orangello that at first blush - if you own the home, you can do whatever you want. And again, maybe that means doing nothing right now. I'd probably reply to her text something like - I am not thinking about that right now; my time and energy are going towards making arrangements for Dad.

[lust2hart]

Oct 14, 2024 14:01:41 GMT -5 donutsmakemegonuts said:

Oct 14, 2024 13:53:48 GMT -5 momof2 said:

I also have a terrible dad who started dating within weeks of my mom’s death. He remarried a woman that makes terrible choices, including marrying him. I would not let this woman move back into this home in a million years. She is a bad decision maker that you will have to evict. Tell her that she is not in the paperwork and you are the homeowner. Change the locks before you tell her this. Run like the wind from having contact with her.

Definitely don't just change the locks.  Your state might require that she be legally evicted.

Yeah that all sounds like terrible advice to me! 

[lavenderblue]

Are they legally married? Does he have a Will? Do they both own the house in AZ? I'd be inclined to tell her to stay in AZ and not let her back in your house. She's putting you in a really situation and I have zero sympathy for her.

[meanie]

Oct 14, 2024 13:58:50 GMT -5 penelope said:

Oct 14, 2024 13:55:28 GMT -5 meanie said:

I hold the deed.

That will simplify things a lot when the time comes, I still wouldn't give her much of a response. Sorry you are dealing with setting up all of his care while she jets off.

[tacokick]

Oct 14, 2024 14:07:08 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

For what it's worth, I don't think you need to do anything at all about this right now, since your father is still at the house. But if you want to get a head start, I agree with meeting with an estate attorney and/or whoever drew up your father's paperwork. However, I do agree with orangello that at first blush - if you own the home, you can do whatever you want. And again, maybe that means doing nothing right now. I'd probably reply to her text something like - I am not thinking about that right now; my time and energy are going towards making arrangements for Dad.

I would not kick that conversation down the road. The woman must know there is a good chance OP doesn’t want her back, she’s not helping with the dad’s care and OP owns the house. She can let her dad live there forever but let the partner know she won’t be living in it during the summers anymore and be done with it. You don’t want this woman thinking for the next six months she’s coming back, let her make alternative plans now.

[sparkythelawyer]

Call a local attorney that deals with real estate in AZ to address any local specific questions, but my knee jerk is that it may be time to address wrapping her occupancy of this place up.

[simpsongal]

Since she’s tagging out of the dementia care I’d be more inclined to be civil but tell her she can’t stay there. Again, I think you’re effectively taking full ownership of your dad’s care. I’d let her stay if there were any chance she’d handle that burden.
(Not legal advice, just my two cents).

I do sort of wonder what assets your dad has for his own care. Will you spend down his estate and use Medicaid for an inexpensive facility? Sort of sad to keep a nice property and give your dad with so little. But I get why people do it and your dad was part of that decision. My great aunt had nothing left after her end of life care.

[lust2hart]

Oct 14, 2024 14:12:51 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Oct 14, 2024 14:07:08 GMT -5 lust2hart said:

For what it's worth, I don't think you need to do anything at all about this right now, since your father is still at the house. But if you want to get a head start, I agree with meeting with an estate attorney and/or whoever drew up your father's paperwork. However, I do agree with orangello that at first blush - if you own the home, you can do whatever you want. And again, maybe that means doing nothing right now. I'd probably reply to her text something like - I am not thinking about that right now; my time and energy are going towards making arrangements for Dad.

I would not kick that conversation down the road. The woman must know there is a good chance OP doesn’t want her back, she’s not helping with the dad’s care and OP owns the house. She can let her dad live there forever but let the partner know she won’t be living in it during the summers anymore and be done with it. You don’t want this woman thinking for the next six months she’s coming back, let her make alternative plans now.

Sure, but the issue is that OP doesn't know what she wants to do. And I'm saying - That's okay. She doesn't need to know what she wants to do right now, and she can let the girlfriend know that that's where she's at with this whole thing.

[heygrey]

It sounds like it's going to be a difficult and dramatic process either now or later, and it also sounds like you don't want a relationship with her once your dad passes. For those reasons I would do what I had to do to evict her now (definitely with the advice of a lawyer) and just get it over with so it isn't something hanging over my head that I dread.

She is an adult that has had choices all along - maintaining a separate residence or saving the proceeds from the sales of her house and condo to eventually use for her own living arrangements. Even getting into a relationship with him was a choice that she was warned against.

[plutosmoon]

I'd check tenant laws in your state. If this is her permanent address, she likely has tenant rights (even if she leaves temporarily) and you need to follow certain legal processes if you don't want her living there after your father is in the home. Texts don't always come across with the right tone, she is probably concerned she is about to lose her home of several years and just needs to know your plans so she can move forward.

When my grandfather was sick he gave my dad and aunt the family farm, dad and aunt agreed to a life estate for grandpa's wife. She was responsible for the upkeep and costs while living there, but she was also about 90 years old when grandpa died. Legally, grandpa wanted her home protected, but he also wanted to leave his kids something. We may have done things differently had she been younger, or just took off on grandpa. She was very unpleasant, but did take care of grandpa until his death.