Husband issues / help me diagnose?

[glw]

I'm so sorry. A meds adjustment may be a good place to start.
[PDQ] deleted

[mommyatty]

At first I wondered about autism, but as a mom of someone with autism, unless he also has significant cognitive impairment (like a super low IQ), this doesn’t sound like autism. I don’t know what it is, but omg this would be awful to live with.

It does sound like dementia of some sort.

[jennistarr1]

You mentioned possibly something physical...are there any physical symptoms you are noticing

[heygrey]

I think this is a less likely answer, but I’m going to suggest diabetes. When blood sugar is low or high, some of these symptoms are present. The mental fog, forgetfulness, lack of urgency on safety issues.

I hope you get answers soon because this sounds like an incredibly frustrating way to live.

[leahcar]

I'm so sorry. This sounds so hard.

Like others have said- is this new? If it's new, I would suspect long COVID or a stroke.

A UTI made my mom mimic dementia like symptoms. (FWIW- she did get a full blown dementia diagnosis a few years later. But wasn't showing signs in normal life at all at this point) UTIs really cause nasty symptoms if left untreated.

Does your town have a mental health urgent care? They can adjust meds and also help with locating providers that have shorter wait times. I would go WITH him to the neurologist. I would not trust that he can adequately explain all the symptoms or relay the info back to you accurately.

[rubytue]

A lot of this sounds like raging ADHD. Like not dropping the kids at school, carrying a pot to the fridge. Not the dangerous stuff, but some of the other things.

My father, in hindsight, had ADHD. Not that it was diagnosed In someone born in the 40s. And when he begin developing Alzheimer’s, we commented that he was like he had always been, but 10 times worse. All those little things I now see as adhd, were super bad. And on top of that, he knew something was off, but didn’t know what. So he would ignore things that he couldn’t figure out, because he’d always been the one to figure things out and didn’t want anyone to know he was at a loss.

[SusanBAnthony]

Oct 21, 2024 8:29:17 GMT -5 mommyatty said:

At first I wondered about autism, but as a mom of someone with autism, unless he also has significant cognitive impairment (like a super low IQ), this doesn’t sound like autism. I don’t know what it is, but omg this would be awful to live with.

It does sound like dementia of some sort.

Yah same... its like extreme lack of executive functioning plus straight up cognitive impairment. Because my super EF impaired kid can learn this stuff, it doesn't have to be re-taught 25 times in a row.

[sonrisa]

In with everything else,, is there some passive aggressiveness? A few stand out to me - are you asking him to do something he doesn't want to, and rather than arguing he is just half-assing it (the kid on skis - did he think the kid should just get themself back up? Did he not want to help with bathing and sees the clean up of extra water as "your problem"? You ask him to bring you something but then he waited for you to ask for it from his pocket.) Are the decisions he avoids/delays ones where you disagree or have different preferences?

[Jalapeñomel]

How long have you been married/together? Have you been dealing with these things the entire time?

[maudefindlay]

Are you certain on his work performance? I assume you can really only get that info from your DH. If you are now having to help him with some work tasks/communication pieces and he doesn't have awareness of all his struggles curious how well he is really doing there. How has his work history been? Has he been at his current job long/history of job hopping and/or PIP/firings etc?

[joy]

Oct 21, 2024 10:42:11 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Are you certain on his work performance? I assume you can really only get that info from your DH.

This is how I feel about the medical and therapist part of this, as well. If OP is not going to appointments, then all she can really know is what her husband is telling her the doctors/therapists say. She also has no idea what her husband is telling them.

I’m skeptical about all the specialist and work reporting done by the husband, honestly. Wife can clearly see that something isn’t right and husband’s answers don’t add up.

EDIT: obviously I am not advocating the therapist or doctors tell her what’s up; I’m suggesting the OP reviews the “facts” as she knows them and starts to ask her husband some different questions to figure out where the truth lies.

[anon98765]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses and for validating that this is not normal and cannot be explained away with someone just living in the clouds. I've been living with this for years and it has been so stressful and frustrating and hurtful and lonely. The defensiveness and denial make the situation so much worse. And there has been a bit of blaming me for these behaviors, as well.

Some answers to the questions:

- He has a parent with Alzheimer's. However, that parent is still (currently) sharper than my husband in some of the issues described. The parent is able to observe, take action, anticipate, all without being asked. The major symptoms of the parent are memory loss and increased anxiety (like trying to pack for a trip months in advance because they're afraid there won't be time). This is still the opposite of my husband, who would wait until the last second and then forget a bunch of essentials.

- The neuropsych exam was indeed a full day one and as someone mentioned, I was there because I do not trust him to represent the situation accurately and completely. I actually just went back and looked it up. The one concerning thing is that the findings are consistent with *mild* autistic spectrum disorder (ASD). Apologies that I left this part out. I don't believe this explains everything, especially given some of the responses here from parents with kids on the spectrum.

- Intelligence - he went to the top schools, has a PhD, and a fancy title at a good company. The neuropsych eval scored his intelligence as "superior". However, in home life, he has trouble understanding simple concepts, cannot make connections (e.g. it rained yesterday, so today the woods will be muddy), does not understand references, even to something he himself said a minute ago.

- I think he has always been like this to some extent, but it is visibly so much worse in the recent years. It could be that these things are just coming out more because life is more complicated with kids or it could be that he is actually getting worse. It feels like the latter. Some examples. When he was in college, he ran out of soap and called his parents to mail him some. It did not occur to him to go to the store and buy it. He had canvas shoes that were split open, with holes, that he would wear year-round, including in the winter in the snow and rain. He does not see puddles and would walk through them. His shoes were wet, he was constantly getting sick. He did absolutely nothing about this. His mother ended up buying him new shoes (he was in his 20s and had a job, lived in a different state from his parents). He has purchased himself clothes once ever in his life (that he promptly wore to a messy job and got dirty, see lack of anticipation). I always say that it's not that he does not solve problems, he has no idea that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

- The mix of medications he is on could absolutely be contributing, but they are not the cause given he has always been this way to some extent.

- Safety with kids. Absolutely not. I do not feel safe, but I cannot do everything, hence why he does the school dropoff. That's pretty much the extent and I do everything else, including picking up weather-appropriate clothing and shoes. Someone mentioned routine and it's exactly right. If it is not routine, he is completely lost. If we have a hot day in the middle of a cold fall, he will never think to put on a hat or sunscreen on the kids. Even in the summer, he needs to be reminded.

- Inability to learn. This is one of the most puzzling pieces for me. He just does not learn. He will understand something in theory but will not apply it. It's like he has no life experience at all.

- Being proactive - basically zero. He takes out the trash and he does make dinner now since I do pickups/after school activities, and he waters the plants. Those are the only things that come from him. Compared to the millions of things that need to be thought of and done, I consider the things that come from him to be zero. I carry 100% of the mental load. If he carries any, it does not matter because he wouldn't take action on it anyway (including saying it out loud, so that others are aware).

- Passive aggression - no, I believe he actually forgets. He does have a problem accessing what he feels, so he will agree to everything. If he later disagrees, he won't ever bring it up and will just either drop it or do it differently from what was discussed without bringing it up (which has actually been proven time after time to be the "wrong" way due to consequences). He is not in a position to be able to make good decision on his own, yet he's in denial about it, which gets us into trouble frequently. He never has his own point of view or an insight to add. I basically have to be right 100% of the time and no one has my back if I'm the one making a bad decision or whatever. When asked what he thinks, he will often just restate the facts.

[anon98765]

I encourage him to bring up specific examples in therapy and I believe that he does.
The problem is that he often does not remember what the therapists tells him, but he also (perhaps subconsciously) tries to cover it up / is not aware of it.

For example, he is not doing something to address a specific symptom.
I ask him if he talked to the therapists about this and he says "yes, the therapist told me what to do but I'm having trouble doing it".

This comes off like he is trying to do it, but it's not working.
But I know him better than that. When I ask what the therapist said to do, turns out he does not remember.

So it's like what he said is not actually a lie, but he's leaving out the most important aspect. I do imagine that these truths also do not come out in therapy. I worry that no single doctor that he has seen has ever gotten the full picture (except the neuropsych eval where I was present).

[lo]

Not trying to be flippant, but what about him made you fall in love and get married? He must have some positives? I’m sorry, this sounds like a nightmare.

[momof2]

It doesn’t surprise me at all that this is AuDHD (autism and ADHD combo). Honestly, I would query if it really is getting worse or if you just don’t have as much patience and time to compensate for this stuff now that you have kids and a busier life. It sounds like his parents and then you have enabled him to not have to learn any coping mechanisms. And now, you have to decide if there is more net benefit to staying together or divorcing. You simply are never going to get this to change. You have to accept that and then decide what your life should look like understanding he will never change.

And I don’t mean to blame you by using the word “enabling” — it just sounds like this is what has happened. I have an ADHD husband and I certainly support him in ways that I would not have to support a non-ADHD husband. But that comes with other strengths that he brings to the table that help offset some of my weaknesses and we have a deep partnership. It isn’t clear what benefits you are getting here — perhaps there are some.

But you have all the diagnoses. You don’t need to do more on that front.

ETA — the reasons the parents on this thread sound different is because they are in a different decade and would not mail soap to their kid. They would have coached them through this stuff as a much younger age. And also, each person with autism is different.

[glw]

As I'm reading your follow-up post I realized, "Oh, this is Arthur."

(Anecdote-- feel free to skip this if it's not helpful to read.)
My mom has been friends with/been in a band with a guy named Arthur since the mid 1970's. He is an extremely talented jazz composer and musician-- like literally a musical genius-- but really cannot function as an adult human.
Examples: put a frozen pizza in the cardboard box to bake it, it caught fire, he just waited until it burned itself out and left the charred remains in the oven and never used the oven again. Bought a car that was a stick shift, didn't know how to drive it, drove it home in 1st gear, car caught on fire. Has been kicked out of every apartment he's ever rented because it was condemnable; if something broke (like a toilet got clogged) he would just stop using that thing instead of fixing it or asking the landlord to fix it. Total lack of hygiene; one time my mom tried to comb the matts out of his hair and had to give up and cut it off (he let it get matted again immediately). My mom picks him up and drives him to every gig because he gets lost or forgets to go.

TLDR: I don't have any real advice, only that...this is just how Arthur was/is, and that may be the case for your husband as well. ETA: Arthur has never had a partner in the way that YH has you, so there is so much more room for addressing these things together, if you want to continue doing so, because it's not something he's going to actually address on his own. 

[anon98765]

To clarify - his parents did not actually mail him soap. The point was to illustrate that he despite his intelligence, he could not figure out what to do on his own. His parents told him to buy it and he did. But he had to be told.

But I agree - the reason nothing extremely horrible has happened (not counting the emotional damage this continues to cause) is because he happens to have people around him who compensate for all these things. Even random strangers when some of this stuff happens outside the house.

[dexteroni]

anon98765 given your updates first, omg hugs to you. It would be so frustrating to have to deal with all of this and also not have a medical diagnosis.

Given his forgetfulness, it would probably be beneficial for you to attend a therapy session him. If he can’t relay the problems to the therapist or remember their advice, he’s not going to get much out of it. Ditto his doctor appointments. Basically he needs an aide with him at every appointment, which I realize is a terribly unfair burden on you. But if you can accompany him to give the therapist / doctor the full story, hopefully they can help with further diagnostic testing. Because *something* is clearly very wrong. I’d ask his doctor for every possible referral / recommendation she can give, because this is an unsustainable, and frankly dangerous, situation. I know you know this, I’m saying his doctor might not, so I would stress the danger aspect.

Some of your updates have made me think of autism. Superior intelligence, being able to function highly enough to earn an advanced degree, attain and keep a prestigious job, but not thinking to solve the most basic issues like torn shoes or perform basic self-care are some clear examples. How long ago was the autism diagnosis? It may have worsened since then.

I truly hope your doctor, his therapist, or a new psychiatrist or neurologist can help you get some answers. Good luck.



ETA: If you haven’t already done this, I would print out the lists of examples you’ve given us and any others you think are relevant, and give them to every doctor and therapist to read through.

[wanderingback]

After your follow up, to be honest, that just seems like his personality plus autism based on what the neuropsych eval said. I don't mean this to be mean, but there are "weird" and "lazy" people out there that have nothing medically wrong with them. That is just how they are. And it's up to them if they want to work through how to make improvements in their life. It sounds like he has seen a lot of doctors and doctors aren't always the best, but it sounds like they have done a lot of work ups and nothing has risen to the top except for autism. Has he been evaluated by a psychiatrist? That would be the only other thing I would suggest, specifically to see about any kind of personality disorder, because based on what you've said it sounds like this might just be his personality.

It is 100% ok if you no longer have the capacity to deal with this as his wife (in case you were thinking along those routes).

[wildrice]

Ok. Based on your update, to me this sounds like he does have ADHD and autism, so life is hard. But with that - he is also prioritizing what he is putting his energy to. If he is able to get a PhD and hold a good job, he's giving those things energy and focus that he is not giving you or your kids. Maybe he's truly not capable of giving everything energy, but the fact that he is able to give SOMETHING more effort means it's possible.

I don't really have a solution. I think divorcing him sounds easier than staying married and responsible for everything like this. It sounds like you have a toddler in the house, in the body of a grown person. That's a lot of extra mental load for you. If you want to stay together, I would have a big talk with him about what changes he needs to take responsibility for making. Maybe he needs a less demanding job. Maybe he needs some occupational or other therapy to help him set up routines and supports - other than you - to ensure he can carry out activities of daily living.

I am sorry. This sounds like a person who really shouldn't have had children, but that ship has sailed so I think all you can do is manage your end of things and how you want to handle him going forward. I don't know how much you can change him, or that there is some medical diagnosis out there that you just haven't landed on yet. It sounds like this may just be who he is.

[aprilsails]

Ugh, his denial and unwillingness to see his patterns of behaviour as a problem for others is upsetting. And everything else as well.

Based on your follow up comments I too can see this as being a person heavily impaired by AuDHD and also potentially over medicated. It seems as though he has a more extreme internal "Don't care therefore not my concern" reflex than anyone I've ever heard of. It also seems as though he really never has been able to take care of himself as a functional adult.

I can definitely see the stresses of child raising amplifying his inadequacies. It's not the kind of job with routines and easy to identify expectations.

It's sort of like he's taken on the persona of the forgetful professor. He's a cartoon archetype. So weird.

[mcmel]

I know someone like this and he just has no sense. He does the dumbest shit and never thinks twice about it. I have so many stories.

I always think of him as a Sims character. You’ve gotta really spell everything out for that man. It seems fucking exhausting to be married to and I don’t know how you’ve put up with it for this long.

[penguingrrl]

I’m definitely reading your posts and seeing traits that align with my two autistic children and especially my one who is AuDHD. There are other traits, too, autism presents very differently in people. I definitely think you’re seeing signs of autistic rigidity or possibly autistic burnout, which has kept my 15 year old from going to school for 4 years (we’re finally coming to the other side on that, thankfully). If you aren’t familiar with autistic burnout look it up, it can present as an extreme lack of functioning in one or more areas of your life, and it sounds like it is.

It’s up to you if this is the life and marriage you want. It sounds like you’re carrying the entire burden and he is making life harder. However, if he’s open to seeking answers and seems ready and willing to build better accommodations to allow himself to be a fully participating partner and parent it also could be workable. But he has to want it and he has to do the work, you can’t force it (you don’t need that extra burden and it also won’t work if you try to force it, it has to com from within).

[anon98765]

During the times when he is able to see these issues (and this requires too much energy from me), he gets the extent of them and says he does not want to be like this. The problem is that during all other times, he runs away from this reality. He claims that accepting this is too overwhelming and creates feelings of worthlessness, so his way of dealing with it is to not - to run away from these things and forget they ever happened.

As an example, when the gas leak issue happened and he was forced to accept it, he made it all about how bad he is, how all he does is ruin lies, and how he should not be alive. And then he got past that and moved on and nothing changed.

He also sees himself as a victim (and always has) rather than someone who is in control - a victim of life, the circumstances, of me bringing up these issues, etc.

He may get it intellectually, be he does not get it in his gut. And everything he does feels like I'm forcing it. Very little comes from within himself.

[dexteroni]

To echo what others have said, if you no longer feel you can or want to forcibly manage him against his will, because that’s really what this is, I wouldn’t blame you one bit. His victim mentality may also be caused by mental illness, but that doesn’t mean you have to continue to endure it. Some mental illnesses like narcissism aren’t always treatable, and the victim mentality and blaming you kind of sounds like a similar form of brain dysfunction.

It sounds like you’re already a single parent and he’s even making that much more difficult than it has to be. Frankly, divorcing him solely for your kids’ safety would be a valid reason. If you’re at this point, I would speak with a lawyer, because full custody is a non-negotiable must. At worst, they’re in danger in his care, and at best, they would end up managing him like you are now, and that’s not fair to them. I wish you all the best.

[shopgirl07]

I realize you have children together, but what makes you want to stay married to him? I wouldn’t think you’re even remotely sexually attracted to him given the hygiene issue, along with everything else. It sounds like he’s seen plenty of doctors and therapists, etc. I don’t see how this gets better really.

[momof2]

Oct 21, 2024 12:24:15 GMT -5 anon98765 said:

Deleted.

This is where “actions speak louder than words.” He may occasionally say the words you want to hear, but he isn’t taking any action to improve this. You just have to decide what you want your life to look like given he will never change.

[dexteroni]

momof2 OP asked not to be quoted.

[ellipses84]

Autism is often misdiagnosed as ADHD and then the medications don’t work, or they have both and don’t have the right medications. Anxiety and depression can go along with these and medications or the wrong medications combos and side effects can also cause some of these issues.

I have 2 people close to me that have similarities. One is on the part of the Autism spectrum that is the least defined and also has ADHD. The part of the spectrum is PDD-NOS which is Pervasive Development Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified. He was not correctly diagnosed until age 10. I would sometimes describe his behavior like he was an alien who had landed on earth and was trying to figure out how to live and behave like a human. Like normally he did ok, but if he had to do something new that was out of his routine, it would be like the little Mermaid brushing her hair with the fork at the dinner table. Like, I gave him a nectarine for lunch and he had never had one before and had no idea how to eat it even though most people would assume you would probably start eating it like you would eat an apple. I could give you 100s of examples like this. Below average intelligence and speech issues often go along with it. Once he was diagnosed, medicated properly, got the proper therapies and supports he did well in school, graduated, went to college, got a job, has a girlfriend, etc. It’s just taken him a little longer to get there as an adult than some people.

The other has what was formerly called Aspergers. This typically goes along with a high IQ and they definitely developed hyper obsessions with rotating subjects throughout the years. They have a lot of anxiety and depression, which are daily battles that really limit them from doing anything with their life, which is sad because they are young and have so much potential. Outwardly they are an extrovert and they were misdiagnosed for a long time with ADHD which they don’t have. They are very sociable, but they get overstimulated and need down time / alone time.

Do you have a sense if your DH has a high IQ, low IQ, any learning disabilities, speech or sensory issues?

[bee20]

Initially it sounded like he was having new symptoms, but with the followup this sounds like a lot of autistic people I work with and know in my personal life.

Their capabilities are ok day to day because they've built up their coping mechanisms but add a stressor (kids, covid, whatever) and it starts to fall apart. Like, 2 friends I have known since college have become much less self aware since WFH and social withdrawal during covid. This resulted in one of them quitting their job (after swearing for years they loved their job and would never quit-they got an inheritance in their 20s) and the other taking 2 months off on FMLA and coming back to a lower level position. Both are women, both have said they never want children as they don't think they could handle them.

Most of the men with autism I know, I know through work. I have 2 men on my team who have PhDs and have disclosed autism, several more likely have it. They have fancy job titles. The ones that are successful embrace supports like reminders, smart home type automation, and heavy routine. They also play their work responsibilities to their strengths-generally they are not managers of people or projects.

One who is a parent says he has a wristband he wears when he is responsible for his child, because otherwise he can forget. He suggested this method for one of our lab tasks as a reminder when certain safety measures are in place.


Sorry this isn't a quick fix, but the thing is that if it is autism there isn't a medication answer, it's really around the person building supports that work for them. Sometimes those supports are relying on friends and family, and it's ok if you're done providing that support. But sometimes those supports can be offloaded to digital tools that can take a load off, or other types of aids, or spending money to avoid a problem (what if you only leased cars for 3 years, because he can't handle maintenance).