MOOKS: How would you feel about this?

[redheadk]

Oct 25, 2024 19:01:00 GMT -5 @villainv said:

My gut reaction is that it’s inappropriate for her to send a message like this on a Friday evening, rather than pull her aside after class and talk in person. Also, how does she expect your daughter to adjust her past bad behavior if she “gives her grace” instead of immediately calling out and correcting bad behavior?

More appropriate would have been to speak to her when it happened. If for some reason that was not possible, a message like “I’ve been thinking about what happened at the end of class today, and I’d like us to talk about this. Can you come by before the bell, or stay after class on Monday so we can talk about it?”

I would have been 100% ok with a message like that. It honestly all stems from a misunderstanding (teacher felt the remark was disrespectful towards her and mocking towards the friend. The friend assured dd that she did not take it that way at all). As a teacher, my first question was always “this happened. Can you walk me through what you think happened/why you said this?” as neutrally as possible. It was the best way to get the full story from a kid and if it was something that was really a problem, the best way to resolve it.

[mofongo]

Oct 26, 2024 12:50:07 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Oct 26, 2024 11:54:51 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Of course it didn't help diffuse the situation. I was shocked at how she started the call. The tone of the email was exactly the tone she used on the phone from the outset. I was actually pretty caught off guard. The purpose of my call was to get to the bottom of how exactly DD is acting in class since she was being threatened with a write up yet I had received zero indication from anyone that there were any problems at all and to address her sending a private message to a student beyond the typical logistic-style messages DD receives occasionally.

As for the rest, I disagree that my daughter should have handled the sitaution independently. I am a capable parent who regularly does all of the things you describe; however, we will have to disagree about the threshold at which a parent needs to intervene. I really don't know what else to tell you other than DD is truly one of the most responsible, respectful kids I know. Other than packing her lunch and getting her to/from school, there is really nothing I ever need to do for her regarding school. I'm very, very aware that kids do not act the same around their parents as they do others but all feedback I've received up to this point is consistent with the child I observe at home. 


A few people have asked if she's new/her age. She is not a new teacher though she has not been in an actual classroom full time for a while. I'm fuzzy on her exact background but she moved up from elementary school because her husband teaches at the middle school. She only taught 2 actual classes last year and was in the testing room or something like that for the rest of the day until this year. I don't know what kind of cert she has but she is a certified teacher.

She's a little older, her kids are college age. As we were leaving parent night at the beginning of the year, my DH remarked that she seemed like she really doesn't like middle schoolers. He is pretty easy going about things so for him to even remark on it is unusual. There was a lot of looking around at other parents in confusion while she was speaking. 

I'm not saying your feelings about the way the teacher initiated the conversation with your daughter aren't valid. The teacher's message wad clearly loaded with emotion and ... well, we aren't at our best when we let emotions drive our responses.

Your daughter could have walked in, apologized for her comment (I have to assume this was just the cherry on top of a crappy day), and moved on- knowing that she needs to be a little.more careful with that teacher. She really could have handled this!

I am sorry that this experience was so stressful for all of you. MS is a weird time (thankfully, it's gone in a blink).

I’m all for supporting teachers, my mom was one, and growing up my parents backed up teachers at home, etc. But, this teacher is wrong, why should the daughter have to apologize? If anything the teacher could have reflected and apologized. We all have bad days. I’ve apologized to pt’s before. Just because someone is in a position of authority doesn’t mean they are automatically right, this could have been a learning lesson for her, but instead she doubled down.

[minniemouse]

Wow, I would not be happy about that email or phone call at all.
I have no advice. The teacher sounds like my dd’s French teacher. I keep hoping she will retire, but so far, no luck. Two years ago she sent a huge rant to all the parents about how terrible kids are. Thr tone was very similar to the email you posted. Since it wasn’t directed at my kid specifically I mostly ignored it. If it had been directed at her I would have definitely requested conference.

[thebreakfastclub]

Oct 26, 2024 12:50:07 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Oct 26, 2024 11:54:51 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Of course it didn't help diffuse the situation. I was shocked at how she started the call. The tone of the email was exactly the tone she used on the phone from the outset. I was actually pretty caught off guard. The purpose of my call was to get to the bottom of how exactly DD is acting in class since she was being threatened with a write up yet I had received zero indication from anyone that there were any problems at all and to address her sending a private message to a student beyond the typical logistic-style messages DD receives occasionally.

As for the rest, I disagree that my daughter should have handled the sitaution independently. I am a capable parent who regularly does all of the things you describe; however, we will have to disagree about the threshold at which a parent needs to intervene. I really don't know what else to tell you other than DD is truly one of the most responsible, respectful kids I know. Other than packing her lunch and getting her to/from school, there is really nothing I ever need to do for her regarding school. I'm very, very aware that kids do not act the same around their parents as they do others but all feedback I've received up to this point is consistent with the child I observe at home. 


A few people have asked if she's new/her age. She is not a new teacher though she has not been in an actual classroom full time for a while. I'm fuzzy on her exact background but she moved up from elementary school because her husband teaches at the middle school. She only taught 2 actual classes last year and was in the testing room or something like that for the rest of the day until this year. I don't know what kind of cert she has but she is a certified teacher.

She's a little older, her kids are college age. As we were leaving parent night at the beginning of the year, my DH remarked that she seemed like she really doesn't like middle schoolers. He is pretty easy going about things so for him to even remark on it is unusual. There was a lot of looking around at other parents in confusion while she was speaking. 

I'm not saying your feelings about the way the teacher initiated the conversation with your daughter aren't valid. The teacher's message wad clearly loaded with emotion and ... well, we aren't at our best when we let emotions drive our responses.

Your daughter could have walked in, apologized for her comment (I have to assume this was just the cherry on top of a crappy day), and moved on- knowing that she needs to be a little.more careful with that teacher. She really could have handled this!

I am sorry that this experience was so stressful for all of you. MS is a weird time (thankfully, it's gone in a blink).

It's not the 12yo's job to manage the emotions of 40 something Janet the cooking teacher who had a bad day. Janet should consider stepping away from the keyboard and speaking to the child when she's more in control of herself.

This is well beyond normal middle school self advocacy. I can encourage my kid to speak up for himself while also stepping in when someone is showing their ass in private messages.

[charlatti]

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

[cmeon]

Oct 26, 2024 14:19:16 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Oct 26, 2024 12:50:07 GMT -5 cmeon said:

I'm not saying your feelings about the way the teacher initiated the conversation with your daughter aren't valid. The teacher's message wad clearly loaded with emotion and ... well, we aren't at our best when we let emotions drive our responses.

Your daughter could have walked in, apologized for her comment (I have to assume this was just the cherry on top of a crappy day), and moved on- knowing that she needs to be a little.more careful with that teacher. She really could have handled this!

I am sorry that this experience was so stressful for all of you. MS is a weird time (thankfully, it's gone in a blink).

I’m all for supporting teachers, my mom was one, and growing up my parents backed up teachers at home, etc. But, this teacher is wrong, why should the daughter have to apologize? If anything the teacher could have reflected and apologized. We all have bad days. I’ve apologized to pt’s before. Just because someone is in a position of authority doesn’t mean they are automatically right, this could have been a learning lesson for her, but instead she doubled down.

You can apologize when you offend someone, even if you didn't mean to. She certainly doesn't *have* to- she could also choose to ignore the message, or choose to defend herself (to someone who seems unreasonable)- but those are all things she could have handled.

[mofongo]

Oct 26, 2024 14:50:19 GMT -5 cmeon said:

Oct 26, 2024 14:19:16 GMT -5 mofongo said:

I’m all for supporting teachers, my mom was one, and growing up my parents backed up teachers at home, etc. But, this teacher is wrong, why should the daughter have to apologize? If anything the teacher could have reflected and apologized. We all have bad days. I’ve apologized to pt’s before. Just because someone is in a position of authority doesn’t mean they are automatically right, this could have been a learning lesson for her, but instead she doubled down.

You can apologize when you offend someone, even if you didn't mean to. She certainly doesn't *have* to- she could also choose to ignore the message, or choose to defend herself (to someone who seems unreasonable)- but those are all things she could have handled.

The person in a position of authority is wrong and inappropriate, why does that get a pass?

[maudefindlay]

Eh, my 6th grader would have needed some verbal coaching from me at the least to try and handle this as she, to my knowledge, has not come across a situation of hostility/aggressiveness like this. I as an adult would have been taken aback to receive this and would have needed to noodle on it a little bit to decide how to proceed.

[TR]

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

this is what I’ve been thinking throughout this whole thread. That comment didn’t seem to warrant any sort of conversation at all.

[lostrn]

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

That's what I'm thinking. I'd honestly giggle a little about it after the kids left the room.

[pugz]

Team you, I think you handled it really well and this teacher is a drama queen. She fired that private message off in anger and the tone is so inappropriate.


I would lose my ish if this happened to my daughter because HOLY OVERREACTION BATMAN. I think our girls are very similar in demeanor at school so I'd be incredulous.

I think you handled that awful call as well as you could and I particularly like that you called her out as a fellow teacher, not just as an unhappy parent.

And your follow up about BTS night and her seeming to dislike middle school students puts it in better perspective too, it very much sounds like a teacher that doesn't like kids that age and should not be teaching them. Especially an elective class that will be more chaotic by nature.

Also when I first started reading the message, especially the title, I thought another STUDENT sent this. Not a grown fucking adult.

[wanderingback]

Oct 26, 2024 17:23:47 GMT -5 lostrn said:

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

That's what I'm thinking. I'd honestly giggle a little about it after the kids left the room.

Omg I don’t know how I missed the comment.
lol to OP’s daughter.
If I were OP I would laugh about it with my daughter. She literally has no reason to apologize to the teacher. And OP’s daughter was trying to do the teacher a favor!

[wanderingback]

And yes we should be respectful to teachers and adults but teachers are human and can be wrong and I think it’s also ok to teach kids that lesson. Especially to a kid that generally follows the rules and isn’t an asshole.

[hermione]

I’m on the “the comment wasn’t at all bad team.” When the teacher asked, “so, you don’t think she deserves any consequences for this?” My answer would have been, “Correct.”

[heygrey]

Oct 25, 2024 22:11:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oct 25, 2024 20:12:10 GMT -5 hazelden said:

I'd be HOT about that. I'd be tempted to email her back and ask when would be a good time for you to stop by and have a conversation on Monday to discuss the poor choices your DD has been making so you can be sure they're addressed.

I'd be even more tempted to have DH do it because I don't think teachers like dealing with dads. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I've been contacted about some BS before that I can guarantee they'd never call a dad about - DS stepped in dog poo and they wanted me to come to the school with different shoes or come clean his off.

And I'd want to send the email right now to have a better chance of ruining her whole weekend.

ETA - or I'd want to respond to that email, copy myself, DH, and the principal and tell her you'd like to learn more about the poor choices DD has been making.

I generally go right to level 10 on stuff though, so it's usually better if I put DH in charge of something like this. I'm honestly mad on your behalf right now.

I'll take dads all day, lol. Much easier to deal with, IMO. And I'd call a parent to come and bring a kid new shoes rather than allow them to drag dog poop into the building or walk around barefoot.

OP: I'd ask the teacher. Sounds like she had a rough day and is taking it out on a kid who did something small. I would not escalate this further in any way unless there was something else.

I'm just gonna say that Canadians with their inside shoes are on to something. This could never be an issue because the child would have inside shoes to change into! We'd fire off an email to the parent letting them know that the outdoor shoes are coming home in a bag and they would deal with it at home, the inside shoes would be returned the next day, and all would be fine. 

[erbear]

Oct 26, 2024 20:12:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Oct 26, 2024 17:23:47 GMT -5 lostrn said:

That's what I'm thinking. I'd honestly giggle a little about it after the kids left the room.

Omg I don’t know how I missed the comment.
lol to OP’s daughter.
If I were OP I would laugh about it with my daughter. She literally has no reason to apologize to the teacher. And OP’s daughter was trying to do the teacher a favor!

We’re assuming the child is telling the truth about what she said. As a middle school teacher, I always tell parents that they should believe 50% of what their kids say about me and I’ll believe 50% of what their kids say about them. Who knows what kiddo actually said?

[redheadk]

Oct 26, 2024 22:36:14 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oct 26, 2024 20:12:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Omg I don’t know how I missed the comment.
lol to OP’s daughter.
If I were OP I would laugh about it with my daughter. She literally has no reason to apologize to the teacher. And OP’s daughter was trying to do the teacher a favor!

We’re assuming the child is telling the truth about what she said. As a middle school teacher, I always tell parents that they should believe 50% of what their kids say about me and I’ll believe 50% of what their kids say about them. Who knows what kiddo actually said?

The teacher confirmed that what dd told me was accurate, as did the friend she said it to so yes, we are assuming the child is telling the truth.

[wanderingback]

Oct 26, 2024 22:36:14 GMT -5 erbear said:

Oct 26, 2024 20:12:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Omg I don’t know how I missed the comment.
lol to OP’s daughter.
If I were OP I would laugh about it with my daughter. She literally has no reason to apologize to the teacher. And OP’s daughter was trying to do the teacher a favor!

We’re assuming the child is telling the truth about what she said. As a middle school teacher, I always tell parents that they should believe 50% of what their kids say about me and I’ll believe 50% of what their kids say about them. Who knows what kiddo actually said?

OP had a whole phone conversation with the teacher, so was going by that that no new unknown behaviors or remarks from the daughter were told to OP from the teacher. I assumed the teacher would’ve mentioned it if that were the case.

[Jalapeñomel]

FYI: you should be able to access her messages in the student view of the parent account in Schoology.

As for the OP, completely and horribly inappropriate. It should’ve been dealt with in the moment, no DM should ever be sent to a child about behavior.

[Jalapeñomel]

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

Not defending this teacher!

Sometimes, as a teacher, we are at the end of our rope after dealing with behaviors and teenagers all day long and it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back (which sometimes is nothing just wrong place wrong time—-and as a teacher, we apologize!).

[charlatti]

Oct 27, 2024 9:29:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

Not defending this teacher!

Sometimes, as a teacher, we are at the end of our rope after dealing with behaviors and teenagers all day long and it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back (which sometimes is nothing just wrong place wrong time—-and as a teacher, we apologize!).

Oh, of course. But in this case the teacher doubled down and has maintained that this comment was a big issue. I struggle to see the problem with the comment.

eta: our version of Schoology doesn’t allow for parent accounts. 

[redheadk]

Oct 27, 2024 9:29:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Oct 26, 2024 14:45:53 GMT -5 charlatti said:

I’m perplexed that the teacher was so upset about the comment in the first place. I teach high schoolers, but that just seems like a normal joking response that a friend would say to another friend who got called out for talking too much. I don’t really see how it’s disrespectful to the teacher.

Not defending this teacher!

Sometimes, as a teacher, we are at the end of our rope after dealing with behaviors and teenagers all day long and it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back (which sometimes is nothing just wrong place wrong time—-and as a teacher, we apologize!).

I really expected to hear that it was something like this from her OR that there was a different comment that led to such a reaction. We have all had really bad days as teachers and realize in hindsight that we allowed other frustrations to bleed through on to someone who didn’t deserve it. Dd was perplexed about the anger about the comment but her upset came from the threat to write her up for… what? That is the part that I specifically wanted clarification about.

I swear I’ve checked a million times and there is no way to see DD’s messages when I’m in my account in student view. It’s not an option anywhere. I’m not sure if it’s a case of districts/schools electing different options for the parent/student view or what though I could just be missing it.

ETA: I don’t really think the comment warranted any reaction whatsoever but the teacher did feel disrespected which is a valid emotion even if I disagree (I wouldn’t have thought a thing of it as a teacher and honestly found it helpful when kids were low-key checked by their friends). Prior to the phone call, dd and I did talk about how to apologize to the teacher for what she said which was something like “I said something to my friend without thinking when we were leaving yesterday. I didn’t think about how it might come off to you and I’m sorry that it was disrespectful to you. I really did not mean it that way. I am going to try very hard to think about how my words make other people feel,” then I told her to leave it alone after that. I told her to not get into the mess about the write ups since there is really no way for a child to defend herself well against that threat with an unreasonable person.

[pinkly]

Yeah I am still stuck on how her comment warrants any kind of action whatsoever. It would have made me chuckle and was very probably a completely accurate assessment! And I can totally see/hear my hs senior saying this very same thing. That email from the teacher would not have gone over well. So sorry for your daughter, and I hope this doesn’t cause her too much anxiety going forward.

[whattheheck]

DS had a math teacher during the pandemic year who neither of us was fond and who used Schoology. I just put the app on my phone and logged in with his log-in info so I could see exactly what he was seeing and not some gate-kept/limited view nonsense on a parent account.

[Jalapeñomel]

Oct 27, 2024 10:32:41 GMT -5 charlatti said:

Oct 27, 2024 9:29:16 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Not defending this teacher!

Sometimes, as a teacher, we are at the end of our rope after dealing with behaviors and teenagers all day long and it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back (which sometimes is nothing just wrong place wrong time—-and as a teacher, we apologize!).

Oh, of course. But in this case the teacher doubled down and has maintained that this comment was a big issue. I struggle to see the problem with the comment.

eta: our version of Schoology doesn’t allow for parent accounts. 

I was just saying this why a teacher could’ve behaved this way because people said they were perplexed as to why this would be taken this way.

Again not defending the teacher’s action just saying that it happens to the best of us, but most of us apologize when we do stupid stuff. I know I’ve had to apologize to a student when I’ve lost my mind.

To the other part, how do you check your kid’s grades if you don’t have a parent account? You log in as your kid?

[AdaraMarie]

This seems pretty crazy. Does the school have a policy about messages between adults and kids? I don't think my 9th grader has ever had any 1:1 messages initiated by the teacher and very very few that she initiated. My 6th grader never has at all at school and for scouts they are very strict about no 1:1 messages - a parent or second adult has to be included.

Also, I feel like most middle and high school teachers would have yelled out "I heard that" or maybe "I wasn't talking to you" and then let it go.

[imimahoney]

1. The tone of the message is incredibly inappropriate and the teacher needs to be told how to properly speak to kids about their behavior.

I would 100% send that email to their supervisor because that shit would never ever fly at my school.

2. I would request a meeting with the teacher to discuss said behavior since it was "bad enough" to send an email.

[shauni27]

Oct 26, 2024 12:47:47 GMT -5 abs said:

For me it’s the title of the message. “I heard what you said.” Like is this a sequel to a 90s teen movie? That just seems so off. I can’t get past it to respond on any of what happened after.

THIS IS EXACTLY what I was thinking!! I was like "is this teacher 17??"

[Jalapeñomel]

Oct 28, 2024 7:37:30 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Oct 26, 2024 12:47:47 GMT -5 abs said:

For me it’s the title of the message. “I heard what you said.” Like is this a sequel to a 90s teen movie? That just seems so off. I can’t get past it to respond on any of what happened after.

THIS IS EXACTLY what I was thinking!! I was like "is this teacher 17??"

[redheadk]

Another update!

She messaged dd complimenting her on her performance in our feeder high school’s production of Phantom of the Opera this past weekend. Dd was in the ballet ensemble through her ballet company. She cc’d all of DD’s admins.

Dd and I had a long talk, again, about why it’s really important for teachers to exercise good judgement when using messaging systems with kids, particularly when parents cannot access the messages. She immediately screenshot the message when she got it and sent it to me. She told me she just responded with a “thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the show.”

This is probably the last update as dd is feeling much better about things and it seems like admin did handle the situation. Dd was mortified at the idea of being written up but understands that process better now and isn’t concerned that the teacher will write her up so long as she continues to just act as she always does. I’m bummed that a class she was excited about has turned into this but that’s just how it goes sometimes.

I do find it hilarious that she has one teacher who lost her shit bc dd said shut up while dd has another teacher who’s famous for saying “shut up, with love.” DD adores the other one, she is the quintessential middle school teacher.