Organ donation concerns

[shadow]

Can you tell i got a little time to myself this morning for the first time all week? Hello GBCN!! haha

I think being an organ donor is a no-brainer (no pun intended!) but DH's brother is sending articles (sorry, they're in french and I am not inclined to read them) about issues w/ organ donations. The rundown that DH gave me was that there have been cases where the intended donor came back to life, and some are arguing that the medical community uses an outdated method (like from the '60's to determine whether someone is really dead). There's also the issue that they are quicker to pronounces you dead if you are an organ donor b/c the organs need to be harvestable (is that a word?). I'll try to find an english source, but I'm curious what you all think of this. My initial reaction that these are anecdotal and the 10's of people who came back to life are very very few compared to millions of the lives who are saved. But it's enough to make some people, apparently, think that they don't want to take the chance to be a donor. I think this will make for some interesting conversation in France this summer.

[emisi]

It sounds like shock journalism to sell papers, frankly. Maybe they're using methods from the 60s in France, but I've never heard of someone "coming back to life" here in the US.

[MixedBerryJam]

I have never heard the "people coming back to life" line of reasoning before, but the "they're too quick to pronounce you dead so your organs are in better shape" paranoia has been floating around as long as there have been transplants. While I think that's total hooey, I'm not a medical professional so I'd love to hear a factual rebuttal of this, so I can cite it myself. Since the doctor who declares time of death is generally not the one who's needing the organs, that just sort of seals it as hooey to me. Also, I cannot imagine a doctor putting his or her career on the line for the sake of early harvesting the organs from one donor.

[ttt]

I will admit that this editorial made me a bit anxious about organ donation. Not so much that I'm revoking my donor status yet, but it still made me think.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598.html

[hopecounts]

Ehh, I'm not worried. the guidelines for being a candidate for donation pretty much require severe brain trauma leading to brain death. I have a living will that spells out what type of measures I'm comfortable with and for the most part would coincide with the situation required for donation so I'm not worried about them calling it to fast personally.

[heliocentric]

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

[ttt]

May 20, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

I could see hospital administrators putting pressure on doctors to do this so that the hospital can reap the financial rewards that come from doing organ transplants.

Not saying that it happens - I honestly have no idea if it happens - but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the other things that happen in the for-profit hospital world.

[heliocentric]

May 20, 2012 14:15:39 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 20, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

I could see hospital administrators putting pressure on doctors to do this so that the hospital can reap the financial rewards that come from doing organ transplants.

Not saying that it happens - I honestly have no idea if it happens - but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the other things that happen in the for-profit hospital world.

I guess that's possible. I am sure some hospitals are shady, but I'd like to think most doctors aren't. At least I hope not.

I read the article and it seems a little sensationalist. Some of the comments from people who works in the field were really interesting.

People in the US are so afraid of death and I think these stories play on their fears.

[pescalita]

May 20, 2012 14:15:39 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 20, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

I could see hospital administrators putting pressure on doctors to do this so that the hospital can reap the financial rewards that come from doing organ transplants.

Not saying that it happens - I honestly have no idea if it happens - but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the other things that happen in the for-profit hospital world.

My MD comes from Grey's Anatomy and ER, but they don't usually do the transplant at the hospital of te deceased, right? Don't the fly the organs in a cooler where it can fall out and create drama?

Not knowing anything about anything, my impression is the doctor and hospital are invested in their own patient living, not some other on the transplant list.

[MixedBerryJam]

May 20, 2012 14:15:39 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 20, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

I could see hospital administrators putting pressure on doctors to do this so that the hospital can reap the financial rewards that come from doing organ transplants.

Not saying that it happens - I honestly have no idea if it happens - but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the other things that happen in the for-profit hospital world.

I kind of have the opposite opinion ... that if this even were a thing, which I don't think it is ... the hospital legal department would stomp this idea out before it even got out of the first mouth to say it out loud. How is this even worth the risk of it ever being discovered? I cannot imagine. Disclaimer: I have exactly zero experience in for-profit hospital administration or finance.

[rubytue]

Although this doesn't talk about donors coming back to life, there was a story on NPR awhile ago about defining death (brain, circulatory, etc) for the purpose of organ donation.
www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/03/27/149463045/a-struggle-to-define-death-for-organ-donors

[teflep]

May 20, 2012 17:39:13 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

I'm not sure I see a huge point in being an organ donor officially, unless you have no next of kin or your next of kin are terrible/misguided people who wouldn't want your organs donated. My husband and parents know what I want. It's plenty easy to keep me going until they consent to having my organs harvested.

If said others are also unavailable or incapacitated.

[teflep]

May 20, 2012 14:15:39 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 20, 2012 12:03:07 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

What is the incentive for doctors to let one patient die so another can live? It's not like they know who the organs will go to. There's a very strict system that is followed for determining organ recipients.

Plus the doctors caring for the donors are not the same as those doing the transplants, so there is no financial gain that I can see.
People are paranoid.

I could see hospital administrators putting pressure on doctors to do this so that the hospital can reap the financial rewards that come from doing organ transplants.

Not saying that it happens - I honestly have no idea if it happens - but it's not outside the realm of possibility, considering the other things that happen in the for-profit hospital world.

This sounds death-panelesque/conspiracy theory-ish to me.

[msmerymac]

Urban legend. Hippocratic oath and all that.

[midnightazalea]

That's ridiculous. Doctors and nurses don't even ask about organ donation, it's handled by another trained party AFTER death has already occurred. The only time it would even maybe, possibly come up prior to a death is a person in an ICU that has already had brain death confirmed.

I'm an ER RN who just took a long class about this, so while I don't have links, I am sure about it and deal with it at work on a regular basis. Back when I was an EMT, we never checked to see if someone was an organ donor or not, we were too busy following protocols.

[Deleted]

I'm a registered organ donor and I've never considered that they would just 'let me die' so they can take my organs. I'm not worried about it.

[dirtyred]

The hospital I work at requires that TWO different measures of brain death be performed 24 hours apart before someone is declared brain dead and is then eligible to become an organ donor. There is no "rush" to make someone an organ donor, believe me.

And even if your driver's license says you'll donate, if your next of kin says no, you don't donate.

The last thing anyone in a hospital finds out is if someone has expresses somewhere that they'd like to be an organ donor.

[polarbearfans]

I'm an organ donor. Not too worried. Yeah there is definately the person who is pronounced dead that's not really but it is super rare. If I was that far gone I dont really care. Save lots of lives with my organs

[basilosaurus]

May 20, 2012 18:14:15 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

May 20, 2012 18:07:20 GMT -5 teflep said:

If said others are also unavailable or incapacitated.

That sounds far-fetched.

How is that far fetched? Let's say both you and your husband were in a car wreck, and your family lived out of state. How quickly do you think they'd find next of kin?

I fully expect that if something happens to me, it's possible it could be over 24 hours before they located someone for me. It's not likely, especially if I have my mil ID on me which would allow them to track down a lot of information quickly, but let's say H is traveling, in the air for 30 hours, and my parents are out of town (common for them). Then what?

[teflep]

May 20, 2012 18:14:15 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

May 20, 2012 18:07:20 GMT -5 teflep said:

If said others are also unavailable or incapacitated.

That sounds far-fetched.

Really? You've never travelled anywhere with all 4 of you in the same car, for example? It is such a short window of time for this that it is just kind of naive/dumb not to be a registered donor, IMO

[wise_rita]

May 20, 2012 9:47:48 GMT -5 ttt said:

I will admit that this editorial made me a bit anxious about organ donation. Not so much that I'm revoking my donor status yet, but it still made me think.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598.html

This link isn't working for me?

[pixy0stix]

::looks left and right::

Soooo... why are we suddenly getting so many self declared "experts" answering threads.

As for being an organ donor, if I'm that seriously hurt that I'm pronounced dead (erroneously or not), they can have my organs.

[laurenpetro]

if i'm in that bad of a state that they're talking about harvesting my organs, take them. that just goes for me (and DH, as we've had this discussion).

[heightsyankee]

May 20, 2012 21:01:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

::looks left and right::

Soooo... why are we suddenly getting so many self declared "experts" answering threads.

As for being an organ donor, if I'm that seriously hurt that I'm pronounced dead (erroneously or not), they can have my organs.

Looks like we're searchable!

I am not really that worried. I mean, if I was so injured that they thought I was dead enough to take my guts out, chances of my quality of life being very high afterward are probably low. I don't want to live on machines, so my living will would kick in anyway.

[pescalita]

Yeah, brain death is pretty tricky business, there have been plenty of articles even here to the point that med professionals err on the side of life to the detriment of patient dignity.

I don't know the specifics exactly, but it took them a week to declare my uncle brain dead after his stroke. It's not quick.

[heightsyankee]

May 20, 2012 21:50:46 GMT -5 ribth said:

May 20, 2012 21:01:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

::looks left and right::

Soooo... why are we suddenly getting so many self declared "experts" answering threads.

As for being an organ donor, if I'm that seriously hurt that I'm pronounced dead (erroneously or not), they can have my organs.

Not a mistake. We like new people!!

Well, I usually post on RE/advice from groomz, but it's been slow so I lurked over here and finally saw something I know something about. Don't worry, won't make that mistake here again!

[loislane23]

May 20, 2012 18:14:49 GMT -5 midnightazalea said:

That's ridiculous. Doctors and nurses don't even ask about organ donation, it's handled by another trained party AFTER death has already occurred. The only time it would even maybe, possibly come up prior to a death is a person in an ICU that has already had brain death confirmed.

I'm an ER RN who just took a long class about this, so while I don't have links, I am sure about it and deal with it at work on a regular basis. Back when I was an EMT, we never checked to see if someone was an organ donor or not, we were too busy following protocols.

:Y: Here, it's the chaplain that checks for Advanced Directives. Hell, we'll do a full code until we have the AD in hand, then we'll call it. Any death in the ER requires a call to the Donor Network, and they determine whether there is anything to come get, whether it be organs or tissue. But that's not done until after the death is called.

ER staff could care less whether you are an organ donor, if there's a life to save, they'll (try to) save it.

[teflep]

May 20, 2012 20:48:35 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

May 20, 2012 18:49:56 GMT -5 teflep said:

Really? You've never travelled anywhere with all 4 of you in the same car, for example? It is such a short window of time for this that it is just kind of naive/dumb not to be a registered donor, IMO

It's rare. Sibil's scenario makes a little more sense, but I still don't think it's that likely. My parents live 20 minutes away.

The distance makes no difference in an emegency (and not just for this) but this is a silly argument. Register. Don't register.

[Deleted]

May 20, 2012 21:50:46 GMT -5 ribth said:

May 20, 2012 21:01:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

::looks left and right::

Soooo... why are we suddenly getting so many self declared "experts" answering threads.

As for being an organ donor, if I'm that seriously hurt that I'm pronounced dead (erroneously or not), they can have my organs.

Well, I usually post on RE/advice from groomz, but it's been slow so I lurked over here and finally saw something I know something about. Don't worry, won't make that mistake here again!

pixy's a bitch to everyone. She is one of the reasons I don't post here more, because its just not fun.

So don't take it personally

[brookles]

May 20, 2012 21:50:46 GMT -5 ribth said:

May 20, 2012 21:01:03 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

::looks left and right::

Soooo... why are we suddenly getting so many self declared "experts" answering threads.

As for being an organ donor, if I'm that seriously hurt that I'm pronounced dead (erroneously or not), they can have my organs.

Well, I usually post on RE/advice from groomz, but it's been slow so I lurked over here and finally saw something I know something about. Don't worry, won't make that mistake here again!

Fiddle faddle! You absolutely should make the mistake of posting here again.