I don't really see the issue where your DH is not 'manning up'. It doesn't seem like he's caving to her requests. Last night's question about 'why the appointment, mom?' even seemed proactive. She wants what she wants and she bubblers and tries crying gags - so what? He listens and resumes his life. He's allowed to listen to his mother complain without yelling at her or shutting her down. Presumable, he knows his mother and what will work best and what will escalate things.
I've been through this with my mother/parents. It took a while for me to say "Yes, mom this IS enough. This is my max. I call, I answer your calls, we vist once a month, we rotate holidays. I can't take any more and you should not EXPECT any more. Because this is my max. And if this upsets you, then you are going to have to find a way to cope with it OTHER than calling and complaining to me. Because I'm DONE hearing it and if you can't control yourself, then I am going to talk to you a lot LESS."
But that was my breaking point. And it came when I hit the wall with both feeling exhausted AND unreasonable demands.
Go live your life and continue to let your DH deal with his mother. Unless he's pressing upon you to change your family priorites to accomodate his mother, let him deal with her. Talk together with what you both need. If she launches into this during a visit, decide what he should say - including "stop it, or we're leaving". Support each other to leave.
And one thing that I always used with both sets of grandparents was an invitation, at my conveinence to visit US. It really helps ease my my guilt when complaints are directed at me and I can respond with - "Well, we invited you for such&such and you chose not to come." With grandparent requests, it was most often at their home on their time schedule (and yes, with no regard to MY schedule or the demands on my time). Can they drive at night? Do you want to meet mid-way for a morning breakfast? Do they want to come over , maybe sleepover on a Sautrday night and babysit so you and DH can go out on a date? She says she wants to be more involved, look at what YOU could use for involvment and state it. After she gives you a few "no's" you'll feel better about saying no to her, too. And it puts it back on her to get what she says she wants when its not at all conveninet for you.
You husband needs to step up to the plate on this one. I've learned that my husband can call my MIL out on things, but if I call her out I'm being unreasonable. I let him handle the difficult discussions with his parents and I handle the discussions with my parents.
Post by dr.girlfriend on Oct 11, 2012 10:43:03 GMT -5
A lot of this may be rambling, but maybe it will help.
I've kind of seen both sides of this. My son is my parents' only grandchild, and my mom in particular is OBSESSED with him. Like, thinks about him from morning to night. DH's mom passed away last year, but she was completely the opposite. Didn't even really ask about DS when she called, when she visted she'd say a quick hi to him and then just want to talk to DH. It's like there was no happy medium.
Now that DS has gotten older, there are a few things we've done to manage my mom's obsession with him. The most useful thing has been Skype. We have to set very clear limits or my mom would want to Skype from the moment we get home at night until DS closes his eyes to go to bed, but now that he's older we can set up the computer in front of him and he can talk to my mom while he eats dinner or plays while I unload the dishwasher or something. Do you think your DH could hold DS and Skype with his mom while you have a little "you time"?
The other thing that is helpful is that I have made a solid pledge to DH that if there is drama with my mom I will deal with it. If he has a business trip, that's when my mom comes to visit. I phrase it as her "helping me while DH is gone" but in truth it's minimizing the amount of time he has to deal with her. When she comes while we're both in town, she gets a hotel with a pool and she and DS have a wonderful time on their little adventure, staying at the hotel, swimming, etc., and again we don't have to deal with her much.
My mom is admittedly a wacky person, much as I love her. In theory I love how interested she is in DS, and that he has that compared to the indifference of my MIL. So, I try to shield DH from the worst of it, and use it to give ourselves a break when possible. ;-) She drives me crazy if I see her for extended periods of time too, but at least I've had 40 years to learn how to deal with it.
I think a lot of it is my mom feeling her own mortality. She knows that she is not going to be alive for the majority of DS's years, and she desperately wants him to know and remember her. I can understand that, and even though it's going to be crazy-hard for DS when he does lose her, he will be really thankful I think for the memories he has made with her.
Post by dr.girlfriend on Oct 11, 2012 10:47:02 GMT -5
Sorry, I hadn't read the subsequent posts. My parents are not allowed to drive DS on the highway either. We structure our visits so that it doesn't have to happen.
But, seriously, why is your MIL falling down all the time? That's not normal. Balance issues like that could be a sign of something serious, and should be checked out.
Sorry, I hadn't read the subsequent posts. My parents are not allowed to drive DS on the highway either. We structure our visits so that it doesn't have to happen.
But, seriously, why is your MIL falling down all the time? That's not normal. Balance issues like that could be a sign of something serious, and should be checked out.
Thanks Dr.G for sharing your perspective. And I am unsure why MIL keeps falling. She had a bad knee, then had a knee replacement, so she might just be a little unsteady from that? She's very overweight as well - that might be a contributing factor.
If MIL is suddenly having balance and emotional problems I'd want her to have a physical and maybe a referral to a neurologist.
Could you guys set up a skype date with her, once a week, for half hour or so, so she could talk to you guys, see the baby, etc? She *might* be placated if she had a regulare chanve to communicate with you all.
I can speak from experience that the DiL sending the email usually makes things worse. If she didn't see your father's cancer as a reason to spend time with him, she will never understand , or rather, care to understand your side. Get on the same page with your H about boundaries and let him deal with it.
I can speak from experience that the DiL sending the email usually makes things worse. If she didn't see your father's cancer as a reason to spend time with him, she will never understand , or rather, care to understand your side. Get on the same page with your H about boundaries and let him deal with it.
You are right (and everyone else that weighed in on sending an email). If she doesn't get it by now, she never will.
Luckily H doesn't cower to her every request, so we are somewhat on the same page. He just needs to communicate our perspective to her more clearly.
I don't know how I'm going to be able to act normal on Sunday when we see them. I am sure I'll be a little cold and distant. I just can't help it.
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name. They agreed they would be "Grandma and Grandpa' before DS was born. DH talked to them about this a few times and they continue to do it. It just makes me want to cry. And if DS starts saying it too, it's gonna break me. Part of me feels like they do this on purpose. Maybe they're just clueless, but the resentment is building and building...
Post by nonsenseabound on Oct 11, 2012 11:31:20 GMT -5
I like the idea of Skype at a certain time with dh each week. I think she would get her fix.
ITA that dh needs to handle this. You are resentful (with good reason) towards in laws. Nothing you will say will make that better. I would tell dh he needs to do it so you don't say something that will make it worse. That way he realizes that it old be worse!
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name. They agreed they would be "Grandma and Grandpa' before DS was born. DH talked to them about this a few times and they continue to do it. It just makes me want to cry. And if DS starts saying it too, it's gonna break me. Part of me feels like they do this on purpose. Maybe they're just clueless, but the resentment is building and building...
You (or better yet your H) could say, "Where is 'Papa' coming from all of a sudden? You've always been 'Grandpa.'" And then continue to refer to him as Grandpa. Repeatedly, if necessary.
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name.
Oh HELL NO. :@ Of all the things you've described, this would make me the most ragey. I think your DH needs to be crystal clear about this before they visit, and you have my full permission to snap at them if they try to pull that sh!t.
The one thing I will throw out there is that your father's death is obviously still very raw and sensitive, as it would reasonbly be expected to be. I think it would be natural to resent your ILs for having time with your DS that your father didn't get. Like, why did he miss out on time with a great Papa and have to deal with these idiots instead? I can see how that might make everything a little bit more acute and hurtful. It's good that you are acknowledging that resentment is building and needs to be addressed. Letting it build up and then exploding makes you look like the irrational one, and does nothing to maintain a relationship you can all deal with.
uggh the Papa thing pisses me off, I think your dh needs to reiterate how important it is that your son knows that your father was Papa, he is Grandpa, and they need to respect that.
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name.
Oh HELL NO. Of all the things you've described, this would make me the most ragey. I think your DH needs to be crystal clear about this before they visit, and you have my full permission to snap at them if they try to pull that sh!t.
I think your DH needs to stop "talking about" this to them and needs to tell them in no uncertain terms that "papa" was your dad, not FIL.
While I can give your DH some leeway on not wanting to feel like he's being mean to his parents on a lot of this - this is where it needs to end. this is about YOUR feelings now, not theirs. he needs to put you first on this topic.
If he doesn't, then I think a lot of my stance and advice on this would change.
Seriously, I'd be telling them "if you can't respect this, then you will get even less time w/ our kids". That's the issue here - respect. so far, a lot of this is your MIL being hysterical and dumb. But... not really disrespectful.
But to take the name your dad used when told not to is completely being disrespectful and it needs to be dealt w/ firmly.
Post by liveintheville on Oct 11, 2012 11:52:13 GMT -5
Ugh. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. My friend once said the most important thing she learned in therapy, about family, is you cannot control their reactions, but you do not have to acknowledge those reactions either.
Whenever our parents start acting whacky we either 1. call them on it 2. openly mock them if case calls for it 3. ignore them
In this case I'd mostly ignore and definitely wouldn't email a response. If something was said directly to me, I'd kind of be "seriously? You're this upset over THAT???" and laugh.
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name.
Oh HELL NO. Of all the things you've described, this would make me the most ragey. I think your DH needs to be crystal clear about this before they visit, and you have my full permission to snap at them if they try to pull that sh!t.
The one thing I will throw out there is that your father's death is obviously still very raw and sensitive, as it would reasonbly be expected to be. I think it would be natural to resent your ILs for having time with your DS that your father didn't get. Like, why did he miss out on time with a great Papa and have to deal with these idiots instead? I can see how that might make everything a little bit more acute and hurtful. It's good that you are acknowledging that resentment is building and needs to be addressed. Letting it build up and then exploding makes you look like the irrational one, and does nothing to maintain a relationship you can all deal with.
Yes, it's still very raw and sensitive even though it has been a year. And you're right - I am very sad that DS won't get to know his Papa (DS was 4 months when he passed) and he gets these idiots instead. My mom is living and very involved too, but she's not needy at all, thank goodness.
I'm glad I'm not alone on the Papa thing. I feel like DH has brought it up to them and he's done with it. Like he doesn't want to keep addressing it with them. DH has been redirecting, or saying Grandpa, but again he is not strong or firm about it. I told DH I am going to lose it on them pretty soon if it doesn't stop. Maybe he doesn't think I am serious.
Post by liveintheville on Oct 11, 2012 11:54:51 GMT -5
Oh and the Papa issue? Definitely correct them. Whenever they say Papa...etc. Interject with "no that's grandpa, remember papa was my dad and grandpa is your dad's dad".
The other thing they do that royally pisses me off is that FIL and MIL refer to FIL now as "Papa." That was my Dad's name as a grandpa. Now that he is gone, they think they can just snatch up the name. They agreed they would be "Grandma and Grandpa' before DS was born. DH talked to them about this a few times and they continue to do it. It just makes me want to cry. And if DS starts saying it too, it's gonna break me. Part of me feels like they do this on purpose. Maybe they're just clueless, but the resentment is building and building...
You (or better yet your H) could say, "Where is 'Papa' coming from all of a sudden? You've always been 'Grandpa.'" And then continue to refer to him as Grandpa. Repeatedly, if necessary.
I'd flat out have your H tell them that is unacceptable. Jeez, that's awful.
Post by nonsenseabound on Oct 11, 2012 11:58:02 GMT -5
The papa thing would make me all kinds of ragey. I would tell them in no uncertain terms that it is disrespectful to you. Your dad was called papa and he will always be papa. Just like you will not refer your dad as grandpa. If he wants a different name instead of Grandpa or papa, you will honor that. For example, we called my grandpa Pops or a friend calls her grandpa Opa or even grandaddy. But I would NOT be okay with them preempting a name meant for my dad.
I told DH I am going to lose it on them pretty soon if it doesn't stop. Maybe he doesn't think I am serious.
I'd remind him one more time before Sunday. "If you don't FIRMLY tell them to stop it, the next time they call him Papa, I'm going to say something and I can't guarentee that I'll be nice about it. So you can either be nice but VERY CLEARLY firm, or you can let me handle it. It's your choice.".
And if he doesn't handle it, then do what you need to do. THEN he'll realize how serious you are.
I just came back in because I am so upset about the Papa thing. This is straight up a$$holish behavior. Completely disrespectful to you and the memory of your dad. It's been a year - this is going to be raw to you for a long time.
I just came back in because I am so upset about the Papa thing. This is straight up a$$holish behavior. Completely disrespectful to you and the memory of your dad. It's been a year - this is going to be raw to you for a long time.
How hurtful.
Thank you for validating my feelings. MIL lost her mom to cancer when she was at a similar stage in life so I CAN NOT COMPREHEND how she doesn't get it that this is so very hurtful and disrespectful. And FIL lost his Dad as well earlier in life. I don't get why they don't get it. That, or they're doing it on purpose which is even worse. Totally assholish either way you look at it.
I told DH I am going to lose it on them pretty soon if it doesn't stop. Maybe he doesn't think I am serious.
I'd remind him one more time before Sunday. "If you don't FIRMLY tell them to stop it, the next time they call him Papa, I'm going to say something and I can't guarentee that I'll be nice about it. So you can either be nice but VERY CLEARLY firm, or you can let me handle it. It's your choice.".
And if he doesn't handle it, then do what you need to do. THEN he'll realize how serious you are.
I have said almost these exact words to DH several times already. He hasn't done anything more about it. Part of the problem is that FIL and MIL tend to never do this within earshot of DH, only in my presence and the presence of DS.
with your update, I say do what you have to do, then. Leave DH out of it. They refer to him as Papa? Let go. Tell them that is not acceptable. Papa was your dad, and you find it completely and utterly disrespectful for them to keep insisting on trying to use it. Especially (throw in some guilt) as she lost her mom at a similar stage and you'd expect them to have a little empathy towards you on this issue.
Of course they don't do it around your H. Mine don't either. The passive aggressiveness requires it be done only around me - so they can make me out to be the a-hole for saying something about it.
My good friend has a MIL like this. I thought friend was exaggerating until I saw her MIL go off and pout and cry in public b/c she wasn't getting enough attention, like a 4 year old. I would definitely lose it on them about the "Papa" thing. Ugh. I'd also be tempted to fight fire with fire and the next time she cries about this stuff, you take your pregnancy hormones and totally start crying about how the baby doesn't need this kind of stress, you can't take it, etc. haha
My good friend has a MIL like this. I thought friend was exaggerating until I saw her MIL go off and pout and cry in public b/c she wasn't getting enough attention, like a 4 year old. I would definitely lose it on them about the "Papa" thing. Ugh. I'd also be tempted to fight fire with fire and the next time she cries about this stuff, you take your pregnancy hormones and totally start crying about how the baby doesn't need this kind of stress, you can't take it, etc. haha
OMG I forgot to mention several months ago we (me, my mom, my sis, some of my aunts, and a bunch of my mom's good friends) all went away on a girl's weekend. My mom invited my MIL for some reason. All she did the entire weekend was pout and cry about not seeing us enough. She never cried to me, it was always to my mom (who just lost her husband at this point). And then she started interrogating my aunts about how often they get to see me, DH, and DS. Like she was scorekeeping or something. It was so crazy. Nobody could believe it, because we all saw her go off and pout and cry all the time. Sounds like your friend's MIL.
I am totally tempted to fight fire with fire, but we haven't told her about the PG yet and now I don't feel like telling her bc she is ruining the good news with her guilt trips, etc.
Post by hannamaren on Oct 11, 2012 18:53:01 GMT -5
Wow, these people have zero redeeming qualities. I am sorry for your situation. My MIL is not even half as bad as yours, but she does try to guilt myH into visiting every weekend. She often doesnt say it but hints at the "my other son is dead" card. However, my H is selfish (as he can be) and will often just call on Saturday morning and say "we cant come" Since having the baby, we try to do every other weekend. But when they start asking us to sleep over (they live 20 min away) He firmly says no thankyou. And if they start going down that "why dont you ever sleepover" conversation, he says "why cant we just have fun now?"
And the Papa thing? I am impressed they are still alive.