MIL Vent & WWYD

[mellymel]

Backstory: MIL and FIL are nice people and usually mean well. MIL has become increasingly emotional over the last 2 years, particularly after our DS was born 16 months ago. DH is an only child and therefore DS is their only grandchild. Naturally, they (mainly MIL) want to see us as often as possible.

10 months ago, we moved back to our home state where ILs live (and my family too) after 4+ years in a state 700 miles away. We did this to be closer to family.

Here's where my vent starts - sorry, this might get long. MIL is somewhat obsessive over being a grandma. ILs came to visit us for 10 days (we never OK'd 10 whole days!) in our tiny house immediately after DS was born. And they weren't helpful either - MIL would roll out of bed at 11am and ask what was for dinner that night, etc. 2 weeks before DS was born, my Dad was diagnosed with an acute, aggressive cancer. I was torn between spending time with ILs and flying back to home state with newborn DS to be with my Dad. I finally flew back to home state to be with Dad on the 10th day of their visit. Who knows when they finally would have left if I hadn't!

Last summer, MIL scheduled an appointment with DH (no joke) to talk about something that was important to her. Once DH got on the phone with her, she stated that she felt we spent more time with my side of the family than with ILs. OK, pretty impossible to do from 700 miles away but whatever. The thing that made me livid is that she thought this was appropriate to bring up while my Dad was fighting for his life. We lost my Dad last fall. I will never forgive MIL for being so selfish during those last few months I had with my Dad.

Since we moved back home, it still doesn't seem good enough for MIL. We see them at least 1x/month for a FULL day, but usually 2 times per month. We currently live 100+ miles away from them. MIL keeps badgering us about when they can start seeing us more regularly. WTF?! I feel like we see them plenty often.

I think MIL conveniently forgets that she and FIL are not the only family in our lives. We also have two houses to maintain, current residence and rental property. I work very long hours and barely see DS during the week. Sometimes we want to see our friends or my side of the family. Sometimes we just need a weekend to ourselves, just the 3 of us. I don't think she sees things from our perspective at all.

The final straw is this: last night DH called MIL to arrange a get together with them at our house this weekend (ugh). Well, MIL had recently sent DH and I an email asking when we could get together because she wanted to discuss something with us that is important to her. DH asked her on the phone what it was she wanted to talk about. She was SOBBING and said she wants to feel like she is more a part of our lives. OMG, you guys - WTF? We see them often, she sees every pic I post on Facebook, talk on the phone a lot, etc. What the F*&% more does she expect? There is only so much of us to go around, and she doesn't seem to look at things from our perspective.

I am starting to really, really resent her for all of this. And starting to resent DH too, because he never takes a strong approach with her. I'm sure it's hard when you hear your mom blubbering on the phone, but he just listens and doesn't explain to her that our visits, etc. aren't going to increase. There's just no extra time in our lives. It might be different if we didn't live 100+ miles from each other, but she can't even be happy that we are no longer 700+ miles away.

So, how would you handle this? Am I in the wrong here? How often do you ladies see your ILs? Part of me wants to send her an email explaining things from our point of view, but I don't want to make things even more dramatic. But, if I don't do something I just feel her behavior and badgering will continue. And DH feels like he is caught in the middle (even though he needs to man up a little here).

Thank you if you made it all the way through this. Any advice will be appreciated.

[jaylea]

My first reaction is that she's lucky you see her at all given her selfishness when your dad was sick, but that's probably not helpful.

I think your H needs to respond to her ridiculousness. There is only so much time to go around, you allot what you can to seeing them, and if they want to see you more, then it's going to have to fit into your schedule.

Could you put the onus on them? Like they can come take DS out for a few hours on weekends that you are not available, then they can head home? If it's all or nothing in terms of an entire weekend, then you simply can't do more than one weekend, or two, per month.

[ssmjlm]

I know you don't want to hear this, but your DH really needs to step it up and communicate that it just isn't going to happen. And if he doesn't then you guys are going to only continue to perpetuate the issue with MIL.

My FIL is 10mins away and MIL and her DH are 45mins away, but they are not active grandparents to niece and nephew sadly. So I don't think we'll encounter this issue with them once baby is here. We try and see each of them once a month for a few hours. Otherwise it's minimal contact, but I think that's more a fact of how DH's family just isn't very close sadly.

[ECB]

Your DH doesn't take a "strong" approach, but what DOES he say or do?? Does he want to give in, or is he just quietly holding them off?

I ask because I'm in a similar situation w/ my IL's and my DH. I wish he'd be more upfront w/ them about the "why" behind why things are the way they are.

He doesn't, BUT he also doesn't "give in" to them, so to speak. He really doesn't want to see them anymore than I do, and actually - based on his job - he's able to take DS to see them w/o me going (during the week).

It still frustrates me when they give us a guilt trip, but as long as my life isn't affected by them anymore than it is - I let DH handle them the way he sees fit.

[definitelyO]

Your DH needs to start putting his foot down to protect your family time together. He can say that you all love her - but that as she knows there is a lot that goes on in families with commitments, etc... I would not send her an email if I were you - my sense it it would just make her worse and then she would complain to DH and FIL that "see, I knew it was mellymel's fault we don't see our only son and only grandchild"

We see my IL a few times a month - they live 4 miles away and are a big part of DS's life - but they are not intrusive at all. My mom that lives 2000 miles away is jealous of the IL time with DS - but she doesn't whine or sob or moan about it. just states it as a fact.

[mbcdefg]

First off, you need to sit down with your H and tell him that this is causing a problem. He needs to sack up and set some boundaries with his mom. If not, there's going to be a REALLY big problem.

I would ask him if he's honestly getting anything out of her visits or calls, other than guilt trips. If not, then why the hell does he keep giving in to her? Giving her free reign over your lives won't satisfy her ... she'll just want more and more and more of your time and energy.

It won't kill her if your H tells her, "We can see you on [day] for [time]." It won't kill her if she's visiting for hours and he finally shows her to the door and says, "We have some things to do and the baby needs to go to bed. We'll see you again. Bye!" He's not a bad son if he sets some limits with her, or refuses a visit once in a while. He needs to set the boundaries himself and tell her that she can either comply and spend time with you guys, or she can refuse and not see you guys at all. She has the choice here, but you guys have the power.

HIS family (meaning you and the kid) is his first priority here. His mother is only acting like a sad martyr because she wants to, not because of the actions of you and your H. She could very easily just knock it off and behave like a normal person (which would probably make you more inclined to spend time with her!), but she chooses to make things difficult. Your H needs to be reminded that he doesn't need to go along with her hysteria just because she chooses to go that route herself.

[Deleted]

Your H needs to take care of this.
What exactly does she want? For you to come every weekend? Your H needs to tell her that you are adults with a child and jobs...its not like you have tons of free time.

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 9:26:51 GMT -5 jaylea said:

Could you put the onus on them? Like they can come take DS out for a few hours on weekends that you are not available, then they can head home? If it's all or nothing in terms of an entire weekend, then you simply can't do more than one weekend, or two, per month.

Well, as lovely as it would be to trust them as babysitters, we can't. Thank GOD DH agrees with me on this. FIL is a narcoleptic and MIL is a mess. Examples: FIL fell asleep holding DS all the time when he was a newborn. To the point where he almost dropped him on our hardwood floors several times. Not exaggerating. And he has been in 2 serious car accidents in the last year. He says he didn't fall asleep at the wheel, but we don't believe him. One time last summer he did fall asleep at the wheel with MIL in the car - they did confess this to us. And MIL is not steady on her feet. She falls all the time (she is only in her mid-50s!) - falls down the stairs, falls over her own 2 feet, and even fell on top of DS 3 weeks ago when we saw them last and hurt him pretty badly. She was sobbing in his face and hyperventilating, which further freaked DS out. Also, she almost drowned him in his kiddie pool this summer bc she was so concerned with pulling up his swim shorts that she unknowingly shoved his head underwater for a while. They just don't pay attention, and they are unsafe. I would never feel OK leaving them with DS. Until he is old enough to talk or call 911, at a minimum!

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 9:29:47 GMT -5 ECB said:

Your DH doesn't take a "strong" approach, but what DOES he say or do?? Does he want to give in, or is he just quietly holding them off?

I ask because I'm in a similar situation w/ my IL's and my DH. I wish he'd be more upfront w/ them about the "why" behind why things are the way they are.

He doesn't, BUT he also doesn't "give in" to them, so to speak. He really doesn't want to see them anymore than I do, and actually - based on his job - he's able to take DS to see them w/o me going (during the week).

It still frustrates me when they give us a guilt trip, but as long as my life isn't affected by them anymore than it is - I let DH handle them the way he sees fit.

DH kind of quietly holds them off. I am sure FIL is embarassed of MIL's behavior. FIL never says a word or participates in these discussions.

DH basically just puts her off, but doesn't explain our situation. I just want him to be firmer with her, explain our stance, and set the expectation that it's not going to be more than it is now.

[jaylea]

Well, melly. It sounds like you and I share ILs.

I'm sorry. Your H will just have to set the boundaries. Because if they're like mine, all blame will lie with you if you ever talk directly about it. All of those conversations go through H in my household.

good luck.

[Mashara]

My MIL would be like that if we had a kid. Of course, she already does stuff like that and we live 20 minutes away. I'm lucky that my husband knows how I feel, realizes his mother is crazy, and runs interference. It's his job to call her and keep in touch several times a week. He gets to hear her crying about how we don't have a close MIl-DIL relationship etc. I used to offer to do stuff with her that I liked, but she always shot the ideas down. There is no way we're having a half day family dinner there every weekend, so the calls help her feel connected.

Now when she brings up dinners, my husband now knows he has to "check our calendar to see if we already have plans." Sometimes we do, other times we make plans to spend our time alone. I also feel no guilt anymore about playing the sick card if feel like I might be coming down with something; she is older and certainly doesn't want my cooties.

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 9:32:04 GMT -5 definitelyO said:

I would not send her an email if I were you - my sense it it would just make her worse and then she would complain to DH and FIL that "see, I knew it was mellymel's fault we don't see our only son and only grandchild"

Thank you for this perspective. That's what I am afraid of. I told DH I was tempted to send an email. I think he would rather that I be the bad guy here. That isn't really fair. He should step up.

[Deleted]

100 miles is quite a drive, to make it worth everyone's time to get back and forth, you have to basically make a whole day out of it. My parents live about 1.5-2 hours away, and when they visit we have to sit aside a whole day, it's not like they can just drop in and have dinner and ride a few miles back home. We probably average seeing them 1-2 times per month.

I think your MIL is being unreasonable and I think your husband needs to sack up and tell her that. "We love you guys, but between work and everyday life, it's really hard to sit aside a whole day to get together. Sorry, our current arrangements will just have to do."

I don't think it's fair that what little free time you get, you should have to spend it catering to your whiny MIL, who doesn't seem to understand that you have limited days to devote entirely to her.

[cjeanette]

My MIL has been similar to this in the past. She will randomly get very emotional. H doesn't put up with it. She gets in one of her moods he doesn't come around or bring the kids around. We don't need the drama in our lives.

Though honestly I think she finally laid off when H had to point out to her that is was having a negative impact on our marriage.

[ECB]

Oct 11, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5 mellymel said:

DH basically just puts her off, but doesn't explain our situation. I just want him to be firmer with her, explain our stance, and set the expectation that it's not going to be more than it is now.

The one thing I told my DH is that if he would try to, at least once, explain things to them, it actually gives THEM a chance to "understand" a little more and maybe, maybe, back off.

In my situation, I realistically don't expect my IL's to "get it" - and I think DH feels the same, which is why he just doesn't do it.

BUT at the same time, you just never know.

I feel like to not at least TRY to explain doesn't even give the IL's a chance to grasp the bigger picture. Which is how I would pose this to your DH. he doesn't need to be mean, but he could try to give his mom some understanding so that she doens't have these massive breakdowns. It might actually help her feel better about the situation if she realizes it's not about her. KWIM?

[mbcdefg]

Oct 11, 2012 9:41:15 GMT -5 mellymel said:

Oct 11, 2012 9:32:04 GMT -5 definitelyO said:

I would not send her an email if I were you - my sense it it would just make her worse and then she would complain to DH and FIL that "see, I knew it was mellymel's fault we don't see our only son and only grandchild"

Thank you for this perspective. That's what I am afraid of. I told DH I was tempted to send an email. I think he would rather that I be the bad guy here. That isn't really fair. He should step up.

I wouldn't send an email. That just seems like an invitation for more drama. What if MIL were to forward that to others (maybe even while changing your words around) or post that to Facebook or something?

Your H doesn't need to sit her down and yell at her or anything. All he needs to do is say, "We are free on [date] for a visit for x hours." That's all he needs to say. She has the choice to either accept the offer, or to cry about it and not see you guys at all. If she cries about it then your H can just shrug and say, "Well, sorry you feel that way Mom, but that's when we're available. If you can't make it on that date then I'll look at our calendar later and let you know when we're available next month."

If she shows up unannounced then he can just open the door/window a crack and say, "Now isn't a good time. I told you that [date] would've worked better for us. We'll see you again another day." Then close the door and go inside.

He doesn't have to raise his voice or anything. Just, "Here's what works for us. Either accept this offer or don't." He shouldn't have to bargain with his mother for something as silly as a family visit.

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 9:41:50 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

My MIL has been similar to this in the past. She will randomly get very emotional. H doesn't put up with it. She gets in one of her moods he doesn't come around or bring the kids around. We don't need the drama in our lives.

Though honestly I think she finally laid off when H had to point out to her that is was having a negative impact on our marriage.

CJ, thanks for sharing this. I think it is starting to have a negative impact on our marriage.

The other thing is, I'm 11 weeks pregnant with #2. We haven't told them yet. Well, we haven't told anyone except GBCN. I don't even want to tell ILs this weekend because I am just so pissed at MIL.

And I'm horrified at how she'll act now with 2 grandkids. Double-obsessed, maybe? Cringing at the thought.

[Susie]

Don't write your MIL an email. If she doesn't "understand your perspective," it's not because it eludes her, it's because she doesn't WANT to see it. She's focused on and has prioritized her own needs/wants. An email won't change her focus, it'll just piss her off.

I agree with the others that your H needs to be the one to deal with this, and boundary-setting is a big part of it. It isn't easy, but it's necessary. You guys need to get yourselves onto the same page, and then he needs to execute on the plan you come up with together. When, and for how long, you're willing to do things with MIL/FIL, etc.

It also sounds like your MIL needs a hobby!

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 9:44:52 GMT -5 ECB said:

Oct 11, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5 mellymel said:

DH basically just puts her off, but doesn't explain our situation. I just want him to be firmer with her, explain our stance, and set the expectation that it's not going to be more than it is now.

The one thing I told my DH is that if he would try to, at least once, explain things to them, it actually gives THEM a chance to "understand" a little more and maybe, maybe, back off.

In my situation, I realistically don't expect my IL's to "get it" - and I think DH feels the same, which is why he just doesn't do it.

BUT at the same time, you just never know.

I feel like to not at least TRY to explain doesn't even give the IL's a chance to grasp the bigger picture. Which is how I would pose this to your DH. he doesn't need to be mean, but he could try to give his mom some understanding so that she doens't have these massive breakdowns. It might actually help her feel better about the situation if she realizes it's not about her. KWIM?

I think DH did try to explain a little bit last night on the phone. I was upstairs putting DS to bed so I didn't get to hear his side of the conversation. I hope it starts sinking in for her. I feel that she is being very selfish, making it all about her.

[ECB]

Oct 11, 2012 10:00:14 GMT -5 mellymel said:

I think DH did try to explain a little bit last night on the phone. I was upstairs putting DS to bed so I didn't get to hear his side of the conversation. I hope it starts sinking in for her. I feel that she is being very selfish, making it all about her.

And this is where he may need to feed off her selfishness. "Mom, this isn't about you at all. It's not that we don't want to see you (whether this is really true or not), but we are simply so very busy right now. And we also have to have time to spend together w/ just us too. We're not taking time from you to give to other people. We're simply finding time for ourselves to be a family. But at the same time, it's always on our radar to find time for you as we can." or something to that affect.

Basically let her know that "of course" she's a priority, but there is just so much else to balance around her.

Cripes - my MIL HATED the name we picked for DS. HATED it. It's Irish, but he lied to her and told her it was Scottish - in honor of her roots. That appeased her. kind of annoyed me, but... if it got her to chill out and back off his name - and now even supposedly "loving it", then so be it!

but he fed into her selfishness (which is really how I saw her hatred) and it got her to back off.

[Deleted]

I have never agreed with the philosophy that inlaw problems are the husband's to deal with. They are your family too...and you are the one who is bothered by your MIL's behavior. I think you need to address this issue honestly and diplomtically. This may make you the "evil DIL" but do you really care at this point?

[vanillacourage]

This is mainly an H problem...but you knew that.

If your father dying of cancer wasn't enough to make your MIL see that you also had other priorities beyond her and your FIL, telling her that sometimes you want to see friends or just relax isn't going to do it either.

I agree with you that your H just needs to say "guys, we're very busy. We love you but we don't have time for full-day visits every weekend. We can do one to two times/month, and that has to be enough." and then I think he should talk to them about their health - because your FIL should NOT be driving!!

[jaylea]

Oct 11, 2012 10:08:17 GMT -5 @libgrl said:

I have never agreed with the philosophy that inlaw problems are the husband's to deal with. They are your family too...and you are the one who is bothered by your MIL's behavior. I think you need to address this issue honestly and diplomtically. This may make you the "evil DIL" but do you really care at this point?

The parent-child relationship is, in most cases, strong enough to handle the push-backs when one party is being foolish.

If the DIL/MIL relationship is unstable, having the DIL present the issues, rather than the child or a united front, does nothing but put the DIL in between the mother and child in the MIL's mind. You're not dealing with mature, rational folks here.

[ECB]

Oct 11, 2012 10:11:46 GMT -5 jaylea said:

Oct 11, 2012 10:08:17 GMT -5 @libgrl said:

I have never agreed with the philosophy that inlaw problems are the husband's to deal with. They are your family too...and you are the one who is bothered by your MIL's behavior. I think you need to address this issue honestly and diplomtically. This may make you the "evil DIL" but do you really care at this point?

The parent-child relationship is, in most cases, strong enough to handle the push-backs when one party is being foolish.

If the DIL/MIL relationship is unstable, having the DIL present the issues, rather than the child or a united front, does nothing but put the DIL in between the mother and child in the MIL's mind. You're not dealing with mature, rational folks here.

Ditto. I have a friend who has a great relationship w/ her IL's, and they are rational people. I have no doubt that she could directly handle issues w/ them and it go well. She's also a very diplomatic person.

I, on the other hand, have an "o.k." relationship w/ my IL's and I'm not as diplomatic. If I were to deal w/ my IL's instead of my DH (who IS diplomatic too) - things would not go well. At all.

So much depends on the issue AND the people involved. And we all have to be aware of these factors when it comes to "who should deal w/ the issue".

[pugz]

I think your husband needs to man up, you sending an email will just make it worse. She needs to hear it from her precious only son.

Boundaries are SO important, and now that you live closer you have to set new boundaries than when you lived far away.

I think once a month is totally acceptable, *maybe* twice a month if they come to see you one of the times. Honestly though your FIL should NOT be driving. I hope MIL is doing the driving now. His doctor should have his license revoked due to medical issues.

"Mom, we love spending time with you guys, but we have so much on our plates and it's important for us to spend time with wife's family and spend time as a family ourselves too. We have full time jobs and houses to maintain and need downtime. We are maxed out at this point. I'm sorry if you are upset that we can't see you more than once a month, but the guilt trips are not appreciated and need to stop."

As far as being pregnant with a second, this is another opportunity to set better boundaries. You MUST dictate the length of their stay if they come at the birth. Or ask they not stay with you the first few weeks as you adjust as a small family. They are close enough now they can make a day trip to come see you in the hospital. If they aren't going to help around the house or be able to watch your older child (which they shouldn't considering they are piss poor baby sitters) there is NO reason for them to stay at your house.

[mellymel]

Oct 11, 2012 10:24:28 GMT -5 pugz said:

I think your husband needs to man up, you sending an email will just make it worse. She needs to hear it from her precious only son.

Boundaries are SO important, and now that you live closer you have to set new boundaries than when you lived far away.

I think once a month is totally acceptable, *maybe* twice a month if they come to see you one of the times. Honestly though your FIL should NOT be driving. I hope MIL is doing the driving now. His doctor should have his license revoked due to medical issues.

"Mom, we love spending time with you guys, but we have so much on our plates and it's important for us to spend time with wife's family and spend time as a family ourselves too. We have full time jobs and houses to maintain and need downtime. We are maxed out at this point. I'm sorry if you are upset that we can't see you more than once a month, but the guilt trips are not appreciated and need to stop."

As far as being pregnant with a second, this is another opportunity to set better boundaries. You MUST dictate the length of their stay if they come at the birth. Or ask they not stay with you the first few weeks as you adjust as a small family. They are close enough now they can make a day trip to come see you in the hospital. If they aren't going to help around the house or be able to watch your older child (which they shouldn't considering they are piss poor baby sitters) there is NO reason for them to stay at your house.

MIL is in denial about FIL's health issues. He has high blood pressure which his doctor says is causing the sleepiness issue. They have never admitted to him being narcoleptic. I'm no doctor, but I've never seen anything like it. He definitely has all the symptoms. They even just bought a 2nd car to replace the one he just totaled. They will never be allowed to drive with DS because she is in denial that he is dangerous and so is he.

Yeah, I'm afraid of what will happen when child #2 arrives. I know they will beg to keep DS while we are in the hospital. I just can't trust them and that's going to cause another issue. I don't care though, DS's safety comes first.

The only good thing about being closer to them is that there is no way in hell they are doing any overnight visits with us when baby #2 arrives. They are close enough for day visits and DH will need to make this clear.

[pugz]

we spent 5 years setting boundaries with the ILs while they lived only 30 minutes away, then we got pregnant and they moved 8 hours away. So now we have to set new boundaries for visits and whatnot. Overnights can't be avoided like before

I think being clear with your expectations is important. Clearly she wants to talk about it since she's always scheduling time to cry in your H's ear, lol. So talk to them about it, state your case, and then stick to it. Ignore calls if she is being whiny/emotional after you've made it clear what your expectations are.

Sometimes it sucks but dealing with parents/ILs can be like dealing with children, especially when you have children of your own and they aren't respecting you as adults/parents. Newsflash grandparents, it's not all about you!

[vanillacourage]

Oct 11, 2012 10:31:03 GMT -5 mellymel said:

MIL is in denial about FIL's health issues. He has high blood pressure which his doctor says is causing the sleepiness issue. They have never admitted to him being narcoleptic. I'm no doctor, but I've never seen anything like it. He definitely has all the symptoms. They even just bought a 2nd car to replace the one he just totaled. They will never be allowed to drive with DS because she is in denial that he is dangerous and so is he.

Your DH should call your FIL's doctor and tell him about the suspected narcolepsy and car crash. The doctor will not be able to discuss your FIL directly with your DH at all due to privacy issues, but he should be able to listen to what your DH has to say and then ask your FIL about it and/or run further tests. If that doesn't work, your FIL should be reported to the authorities and have his license taken away. Seriously, I know your DS comes first but there are other peoples' kids on the road every day of the week who could be hurt or killed by your inlaws' denial.

[mbcdefg]

I think that this is a case of, the less you explain to them, the better.

I feel like if your H sits down with your in-laws and explains why you guys can't see them that often - or why you don't want them watching Kid1 while you're birthing Kid2 - then that just opens up the floodgates.

If MIL can't/won't understand on her own that she can't monopolize your time or that it's too dangerous for your kid(s) to be alone with them, then your H sitting her down and explaining it to her isn't going to make a difference.

I would just say what you're willing to do and then leave the ball in her court. "We're free on x day for a visit, take it or leave it." "We already have someone lined up to watch Kid1 while we're at the hospital." End of story. A long conversation with MIL just isn't going to work.

[ECB]

Oct 11, 2012 10:31:03 GMT -5 mellymel said:

Yeah, I'm afraid of what will happen when child #2 arrives. I know they will beg to keep DS while we are in the hospital. I just can't trust them and that's going to cause another issue. I don't care though, DS's safety comes first.

I would recommend having a plan in mind before you tell them. So that the first time they say "oh- we'll keep DS for you", you can say "thanks for the offer, but we have arrangements made".

But honestly- at some point I really do think your DH needs to say "mom/dad - I respect that you want to be more involved, but due to dad's driving record, you will not ever have access to driving w/ DS in the car.". It MIGHT be enough of a jolt for them to realize how serious it is. And even if it doesn't - it lays out exactly where you stand.

(DH once did actually explain pretty clearly to his dad why they won't really ever be used as "daycare" by us. His dad got it, but yet... doesn't get it. He still expresses his sadness at not being more involved).

but... in the end, I just want to say "good luck". I see so many similarities to the issues we deal with too and I TOTALLY get your frustration. While your DH isn't more forceful w/ his parents, it does sound like he is on the same page as you, and really- that's HUGE. HUGE. As long as you don't have to worry about HIM saying "well, maybe..." and actually really thinking about letting them watch DS or drive with them - you're in a good spot, even if a frustrating spot.