Was Columbus secretly a Jew?

[marie427]

May 23, 2012 15:06:29 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

May 23, 2012 14:50:00 GMT -5 marie427 said:

Except that I think Seesaw and the person with the SN of "Guest" that's been showing up in random threads are the same person. So only one new poster so far.

Yes, I'm Seesaw and Guest. And guest actually.

From the rabid treatment and harsh judgements I've seen people get for being new or different or dumb in someone's opinion around here, it's no surprise you don't get new posters much. I read it happen to a member of the board in one thread. This place turns on its own as well as new people with new ideas. No one seems to mind (mods?) either when people start attacking someone personally because they disagree with them. People are saying this one lady isn't good at her job because she may or may not have a venereal disease and had a kid at 19. Is this not slander? It's just irrational around here. And look at everyone who wanted to share their little history papers like that addressed anyone's point at all. If it wasn't my point and it wasn't the cheerio pisser's point, wtf?

This doesn't explain why many new posters have come out of the woodwork since the move to ProBoards. If everyone here was so nasty to them, why are they still around?

And frankly, you deserve to be flamed to the high heavens if you think anti-Semitism has no significance in American history.

[AJL]

May 23, 2012 15:06:51 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

May 23, 2012 15:03:00 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

If this conversation devolves into a "Nazi uniforms are hot" conversation, I'm out.

[/quote
I'm not even trying to go there.

Not you. I think that was directed at me. I posted a picture and made a comment about the cat being cute, but he had a nazi uniform on. I saw the error of my ways and deleted the pic. I'm kind of a chicken to flamings. (Not the sbp was flaming me.)

[Deleted]

So someone doesn't understand the definition of slander either?

[Deleted]

No, we did once have a thread on the old nest where I said the nazi uniform was smart looking and that some actors looked damned fine in one. But I clarified that I wouldn't find an actual nazi in a nazi uniform hot under any circumstances.

[pixy0stix]

May 23, 2012 14:50:14 GMT -5 @Guest said:

The antisemitic history of Europe is probably pretty significant to Jews and historians, just not me or American history.

::blink blink blink::

I just...

Are you for real? To butcher the phrase, "It's history, you dolt, and those that don't learn from it are doomed to repeat it."

American history is all well and good, but we're tied to the world as a whole.

I wondered why this fascinating, yet relatively benign thread, blew up.

[AJL]

May 23, 2012 15:14:22 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

No, we did once have a thread on the old nest where I said the nazi uniform was smart looking and that some actors looked damned fine in one. But I clarified that I wouldn't find an actual nazi in a nazi uniform hot under any circumstances.

Ohhhhh....ok, so it wasn't me.

[iammalcolmx]

May 23, 2012 15:06:29 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

May 23, 2012 14:50:00 GMT -5 marie427 said:

Except that I think Seesaw and the person with the SN of "Guest" that's been showing up in random threads are the same person. So only one new poster so far.

Yes, I'm Seesaw and Guest. And guest actually.

From the rabid treatment and harsh judgements I've seen people get for being new or different or dumb in someone's opinion around here, it's no surprise you don't get new posters much. I read it happen to a member of the board in one thread. This place turns on its own as well as new people with new ideas. No one seems to mind (mods?) either when people start attacking someone personally because they disagree with them. People are saying this one lady isn't good at her job because she may or may not have a venereal disease and had a kid at 19. Is this not slander? It's just irrational around here. And look at everyone who wanted to share their little history papers like that addressed anyone's point at all. If it wasn't my point and it wasn't the cheerio pisser's point, wtf?

Banana? Are you back?

[Deleted]

I wish antisemitism had been taken more seriously by Americans. Then perhaps less people would have died in concentration camps or out in the woods and buried in mass graves.

[druidp]

Wow. I must be desensitized. Attack? What?

So you have an unpopular opinion. So what? And not even every single person in the thread disagreed with you. Either take your ball and go home, or keep rolling into the middle and see who plays.

And stick with Seesaw, at least it's better than Guest.

[pixy0stix]

May 23, 2012 15:12:22 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

So someone doesn't understand the definition of slander either?

Or that HFM isn't a venereal disease.

[iammalcolmx]

May 23, 2012 15:17:29 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I wish antisemitism had been taken more seriously by Americans. Then perhaps less people would have died in concentration camps or out in the woods and buried in mass graves.

They knew and didn't care. Sad huh? My Grandpa said everyone knew they were doing terrible things to them in Europe. A Black 20 year old man in Detroit knew this imagine what everyone else knew. It pisses me off to no end.

[Deleted]

Oh that's what I mean, Mere. Everyone knew what would/was happening but meh, big whoop, right?

And I had no idea Hugo Boss designed the Nazi uniform.

[Deleted]

Ugh, I'm reading up on Hugo Boss and I have a permanent case of the douchechills.

Yes, I know what I said in the books thread but there is a difference between spouting off opinions and using POWs and forced labor to make uniforms for genocidal fascists.

[pixy0stix]

May 23, 2012 15:24:36 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

Oh that's what I mean, Mere. Everyone knew what would/was happening but meh, big whoop, right?

They needed to worry about what was going on at home more. Such as the diseased "the Japs" were spreading in the mountains (as per my gma).

[MrsAxilla]

You know, Seesaw is probably the fourth "new" GBCNer I've seen looking around for a mod to step in whenever we challenge a position. What kind of sheltered internet world are these guys coming from?

[Deleted]

May 23, 2012 15:27:33 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

May 23, 2012 15:17:29 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I wish antisemitism had been taken more seriously by Americans. Then perhaps less people would have died in concentration camps or out in the woods and buried in mass graves.

Except people don't seem to treat anti-semitism as one issue, depending on the actor.

At least the perception I've always gotten (not sure why/how), is that people want to shame Germans and blame them and make remarks to remind them about their shameful past. But the Catholic church, who also persecuted Jews, does not get the same treatment.

So people remember one a lot more than the other. Perphaps it's just b/c the Holocaust is so much more recent. Perhaps it's just the deference that religion gets. But all antisemitism is not treated the same, or even labeled as such.

Oh I agree and that's exactly why I find it significant if Christopher Columbus was Jewish.

Everyone knows about the Holocaust but somehow the regular expulsion and persecution of the Jews in other contexts is virtually ignored. For instance, why do we rag on Germans so hard for their involvement in the rise of the Nazi party but Russians seem to go unnotices for their pograms?

[pixy0stix]

May 23, 2012 15:29:02 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

You know, Seesaw is probably the fourth "new" GBCNer I've seen looking around for a mod to step in whenever we challenge a position. What kind of sheltered internet world are these guys coming from?

There are forums out there that delete any form of debate. You state your "opinion" and that's it. Any sort of challenging or asking for clarification or facts gets deleted. They're big on "everyone has a right to an opinion" even if it's dead wrong, or there's nothing to substantiate it.

[iammalcolmx]

May 23, 2012 15:29:02 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

You know, Seesaw is probably the fourth "new" GBCNer I've seen looking around for a mod to step in whenever we challenge a position. What kind of sheltered internet world are these guys coming from?

So you think it's banana too? Seesaw is now going to say we are threatening to do actual harm to them ?

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure France was regularly expelling Jews once they'd gotten all the loans they needed. Then, of course, inviting them back when they'd gone broke once again.

[Seesaw]

Americans didn't care about the genocide going on during WWII? Did we not join the fight?

All uniforms are hot imho.

I understood slander meant false and malicious statements about someone else's wrongdoing, like breaking the law in running a home day care. No?

[cookiemdough]

May 23, 2012 15:12:02 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

May 23, 2012 14:08:45 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

and Leo gets decidedly less hot every year.

For reals.

I see what Seesaw is saying though, at least on the significance part. It is interesting to know, and if it's true, I'm sure it made a huge difference to his life, but it doesn't necessarily change anything today.

I still think it's interesting though. And surprising.

I think we should always care if our current history books don't accurately reflect history and work to revise them if that is the case.

AJL the book is called "The Columbus Affair" by Steve Berry. Like I said it is mystery / thriller kind of fiction so if you want a more serious look at it this probably isn't it. But I was intrigued because it was a different topic.

[iammalcolmx]

May 23, 2012 15:33:26 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

Americans didn't care about the genocide going on during WWII? Did we not join the fight?

We joined the fight because of Pearl Harbor................

[wawa]

May 23, 2012 15:29:02 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

You know, Seesaw is probably the fourth "new" GBCNer I've seen looking around for a mod to step in whenever we challenge a position. What kind of sheltered internet world are these guys coming from?

well, seesaw is also "guest" so he/she might be #3 and #4 depending on how you count.

A lot of forums really are moderated pretty strictly. Personal attacks, up to and including relatively mild things like the use of the word idiot, are 100% not tolerated. It's nice for things like home renovation forums, beer making forums, or bbq forums (my other internet haunts) where the entire point is sharing information and asking questions.

But debate forums like this one? Yeah...no. You don't get to state your opinion that antisemitism is irrelevant to US history and not get called an idiot.

[NitaX]

May 23, 2012 14:50:14 GMT -5 @Guest said:

haabsies was the cheerios pisser with her random unproductive response. You quoted her as well as me. Did you only read my post and not hers? Try that. It helps things make sense. Or join her at the cheerios trough, it's always your choice.

So Chris discovered the Bahamas instead of America. Was there a point to posting that or did we just want to talk about how history education sucks? Discovering the Bahamas as opposed to the continent still shouldn't have led to any assumptions about Crhis's religious feelings.

I'm glad everyone learned some history and did some papers in elementary. Was there a point in sharing those stories or did you just wanna be cool like me? How does my description of my knowledge of Columbus's historical significance to America become I tried to say I know everything about everything because I wrote a paper? Make some sense people. My point in sharing my spice trade story was to address haabsies failure to understand why I might not see any significance in Columbus's religion. Julius Ceasar may have been a closet Jew too. Who cares? He's still famous for being emporer of Rome (or somewhere near Rome if I was taught inaccurate crap again). Aside from "oh, that's neat, didn't know that" factor, I still haven't heard any good reason to see that Columbus's religion is significant to anyone but those with a special interest in his life or that assign a special significance to being a member of this or that religion. Jews have been persecuted since before Jesus. The antisemitic history of Europe is probably pretty significant to Jews and historians, just not me or American history.

Leo Dicaprio was never hot imho.

Bless your heart. Boo, you do realize that many things get left out of history books and just because what you were told back in kindergarten isn't the entire truth. You've heard of revisionist history, yes?

Back to Columbus sailing the Ocean Blue. Did anyone see the Finding Your Roots episode earlier this week with Linda Chavez and Henry Louis Gates? He discovered that some of her ancestors were crypto-Jews and that one of her ancestors fled Spain with his family. The assumption is that more than likely he fled because of the ... Spanish Inquisition. It was rare to bring your family with you to the New World, so by bringing his family probably meant they were fleeing persecution. Absolutely fascinating stuff.

[msmerymac]

May 23, 2012 14:50:14 GMT -5 @Guest said:

The antisemitic history of Europe is probably pretty significant to Jews and historians, just not me or American history.

Leo Dicaprio was never hot imho.

You think there's never been antisemitism in America? How many of the original colonies do you think allowed Jews to immigrate and openly practice their religion?

[Deleted]

We didn't enter WWII until bombing of Pearl Harbor and we'd known for years prior what was happening to the Jews, gypsies, and other so called undesirables.

We declared war on Japan and then Germany declared war on us. That's why we entered.

[NitaX]

May 23, 2012 15:33:26 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

Americans didn't care about the genocide going on during WWII? Did we not join the fight?

All uniforms are hot imho.

I understood slander meant false and malicious statements about someone else's wrongdoing, like breaking the law in running a home day care. No?

Only after we got the shits bombed out of us in Pearl Harbor. The US wasn't really "wanting" to get into WWII.

[iammalcolmx]

I can't believe we just had to explain to someone WHY the US got into WW2.....please tell me that all uniforms are hot comment was not referring to Nazi uniforms as well. This can't be life.

[msmerymac]

May 23, 2012 15:25:43 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

May 23, 2012 15:23:24 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

They knew and didn't care. Sad huh? My Grandpa said everyone knew they were doing terrible things to them in Europe. A Black 20 year old man in Detroit knew this imagine what everyone else knew. It pisses me off to no end.

This is why everyone should read In the Garden of Beasts.

I just got this from the library! I hope I have time to read it before it expires. (I know! Why did it take me so long? But the waitlist was like 62 people.)

[AJL]

May 23, 2012 15:32:53 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I'm pretty sure France was regularly expelling Jews once they'd gotten all the loans they needed. Then, of course, inviting them back when they'd gone broke once again.

Have you read anything about the Vel' d'Hiv Roundup? It was a plot element in "Sarah's Key."

Here's the wiki article about it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vel%27_d%27Hiv_Roundup