Please don't go. You cannot allow him to wine and dine you and pretend he's just wooing his poor, wayward wife home.
He is not. He sees you as a possession that belongs in his house, under his thumb, following his direction and all times. And he will do whatever he can to get you back there.
It won't solve anything, and based on what you've told us, I don't think that his motivation is to solve anything anyway. He wants to isolate you, so he can guilt you and manipulate you even more than he already has.
Just.don't.go.
Send him a quick email saying you won't be there, or just don't show up. He'll get mad. That's okay. Fuck him.
I agree that he'll be mad either way. There is no helping that. He is set on seeing things his own twisted way and there is nothing you can do about that - but you can choose whether or not to be around his negativity.
I appreciate all the 'fuck him get the hell outta there!' comments, I really do, but they're just making me freak out even more. I mean, this is a 6 year history of communication patterns and habits formed. This is the dude that wouldn't look at me when I wore some sunglasses I liked but he didn't like (for reals) and when I wear the ones he likes (I didn't like) I get 'your so pretty I love those etc etc'. So my response was to throw away the sunglasses he doesn't like. -___-
Obviously I have issues, I get that. I'm working on it with a counselor. But right now I don't have the power to be all 'FUCK YOU ASSHOLE'. I just don't, yet. So what are some tactics that maybe I can do?
-- What do you think you should talk about? What's on your list?
I'm not sure. I know we need to talk (says the counselor). Ignoring the issue isn't going to help. I am strong enough to know/say that. I guess I would want to talk about what I need from him as far as more of an effort to work on things? And admit that I need more time with my family while that happens? (Though I think imoan is saying that's futile?)
You know, I haven't read all of the comments, but I'm going to tell you know, your husband isn't to far from just beating your ass.
Let that sink in for a minute. Your husband has the signs of an abuser. I'm not going to tap dance around that and no one else here is doing that either. Everyone on this board has an eyebrow lifted and wondering if your husband isn't waiting for the day to come when he can break you down far enough to give you two black eyes and then tell you how pretty you look in the shades he bought you.
Then he'll tell you how much he loves you, but because you didn't bow to his whims that you brought it on yourself. There is no fixing this. He clearly doesn't want to fix anything. Why, because he views himself as perfect. You should be "ecstatic" to have him as your husband. He knows what's best for you. What clothes you should wear, who your friends should be, what you should do in your spare time. He needs a dayum dog. And hell, even PETA would remove a dog from his care.
Look at the signs, you are on here wondering if you are the crazy one, you feel you can't do anything right, your husband controls where you go and who you see, he puts you down.
If you can't see your situation in this chart, then God have mercy on your soul, and I will pray that you are given the strength and courage to get out before you become a statistic.
Post by sawyerthedestroyer on May 25, 2012 13:58:10 GMT -5
Ditto PPs. Your counselor can't recognize the emotional abuse and manipulation because either s/he is an idiot or s/he hasn't been told the whole story.
You need to avoid situations where your H can pull out his bag of tricks. This includes meeting for dinner, coffee, at the house, and even counseling at this point. I can totally see your H saying what the counselor wants to hear and then going home and immediately reverting back to asshole mode.
~Coming from someone who got out of a marriage filled with ultimatums, isolation, and manipulation.
Once you take a break... your marriage is over. I wonder how time you two will pretend that that's not the truth.
Ouch. I'll be honest that stings because that's one of the reasons he gave as to why he's angry and doesn't want me to stay with my parents. He's saying I'm deciding whether or not this marriage ends, and that's just a whole lotta pressure and it's freaking me out.
It is a lot of pressure, but it's also a lot of power. You've given your husband all of the power in this relationship - the ability to dictate what you do and don't do, the way you look, the way you feel even. Now t's your decision. You and you alone have the power to end this toxic marriage and save your self and your sanity.
He is manipulative, controlling, and borderline abusive. Leave and don't look back.
And notice that in this whole thread, not a single person said that his behavior was acceptable. NOBODY is defending him. That means something.
Post by marigoldgirl on May 25, 2012 14:09:25 GMT -5
I think the advice you are getting is spot on. I just wanted to say that I have been there. Do not waste any more years on this marriage. I wasted 24 years in my marriage and things never changed and never got better. Controlling men do not change. They may lead you to think they will but they do not. I do not want anyone to have to wake up and realize all the time they wasted on a marriage that all one sided.
Things will be okay. Things will get easier once you are free from this controlling behavior. You do not have to work this out. These things are his problem not yours. Stand firm. You deserve better.
Have you told her about your hair? The sunglasses? The overall manipulation? He's very likely manipulating the entire session to make it seem fine and fixable. She can't see what's really going on at home if she's not given a clear view. You don't need permission or validation from anyone to leave him.
This is what I'm wondering. Does she REALLY know everything?
I used to have a friend who was pretty narcissitic and while he put on a good front in front of us, we knew enough stories from his wife about some stuff he's pulled behind the scenes. Stuff that sounds similar to what you're dealing with.
He pulled the whole "This is why I am the way I am" stuff too. He claimed to recognize the issues he has due to his childhood. I remember his wife telling me all about it and I remember thinking "Well, that's great. but now what is he going to DO about it?".
They weren't in counseling and I don't know that he'd go - that's the one small thing I'll give your DH credit for. Going to counseling.
But BUT BUT - that doesn't mean he isn't still manipulating the situation and trying to paint himself in the best picture possible. My "friend" did that - all stories had a spin where he looked good.
For as afraid of him as you are- how truly honest are you w/ the counselor? Do you hold back because you don't want to piss him off? If so- then she doesn't know the whole story and her advice really can't be lived by.
IMO the counselor probably is just working with what she has. If you aren't able to tell her what's really going on because you're afraid of your husband, then she's only getting a partial story.
Do yourself a favor and STAY away from him. The more you remove yourself from him, the more clarity you will gain. WE can all tell you this until we're blue in the face, but the fact remains that you are in a fog of abuse and manipulation that has been caused by years of being with this guy. It will take you awhile to "snap out of it" and begin to see reality as it truly is.
The WORST thing you can do is go to meet with him. You'll have missed him. He'll be on his best behavior. He'll wine/dine you, he'll make you promises he has no intention of keeping. THIS is the honeymoon period and it's what the victim (YOU) lives for when you're in an unhealthy relationship. You'll get a glimpse of what things were like in the beginning, and you'll get a false sense of security and hope that he will make good on everything he's promising.
Go to your counselor and tell her EVERYTHING. Have a trusted friend or family member go with you even. STAY away from HIM. Read up on abusive men. Surround yourself with family and friends who love you and support you. Tell THEM everything as well. They'll help to remind you when you get weak to never go back to him.
Post by loveablesarah on May 25, 2012 15:39:19 GMT -5
Oh honey. My heart breaks for you. I am angry on your behalf and I wish you would get angry. Everyone here has given you real, sound advice. Don't go tonight. Don't cancel, just don't go. He'll get mad and he'll get over it. Stay away from him until he does. I agree that this relationship is going to very quickly turn violent. Be careful and stay safe.
Find yourself a counselor of your own. Couples counseling isn't going to help you. You need to work on you and your self esteem before you can even consider working on your marriage. You can't love someone else until you love yourself. That REALLY IS TRUE. And I think once you get yourself to a better place, you'll see your marriage isn't worth working on.
Stay at your parents place or with someone who supports you can concentrate on you. Do some serious soul searching. Think about what YOU want and how you want to live YOUR life, leaving him out of the equation for now. You can decide what to do about him later. If he loves you - he will wait. If he won't wait - he doesn't love you and you shouldn't bother looking back as you walk away.
You don't have to make the decision to leave or to stay right now. Just spend some time working on you. Let him get mad. He WILL get over it.
Please do NOT see him, look at any emails or texts, and send any phone calls straight to voice mail and delete.
You need to figure things out in your own head, instead of letting him and his poison thoughts, actions and words do the thinking for you.
Because it sounds like your life is not your own.
Stay with your parents, look up your own counselor through your work EAP, and do some real thinking about your self-worth and your own sanity.
This man is scum. Also, I would strongly encourage looking up the book Why Does He Do That? It's about the different types of controlling men and how they manipulate to get their way.
Most of your posts are word-for-word what I went through in my marriage. If you need to talk, please PM me. You're not alone in this.
This is not a marriage, this is a dictatorship. From what you have said he is not working on anything but trying to control a situation instead of cope with it. This has BAD all over it. If you decide to end it, he will always. blam e you and ONLY YOU for it. A Man like this does not want change except from you. I hope you. are able.to.gain strebgrh from.the counselor and get out before its too late. My prayers are with you. I'm here if you need to talk , hope the talk goes well and YOU control it for once.
Please don't go. You cannot allow him to wine and dine you and pretend he's just wooing his poor, wayward wife home.
He is not. He sees you as a possession that belongs in his house, under his thumb, following his direction and all times. And he will do whatever he can to get you back there.
Do not go.
Have you talked to your parents about this?
I agree with this so strongly! He doesn't see you as a wife or as a person. You are a possession, who in his mind believes he can play with and manipulate. He will try to find news ways to control you. It could easily escalate to him hitting you. Don't think it wouldn't. It's how it works.
I was in a relationship like this. Do, not go see him!! Stand him up. Do not talk to him. Go talk to an attorney. You are in charge of this. He is not. You hold the cards here.
You are with your parents. They are willing to help you if you are staying with them now. Do not leave.
You are stronger than you think or you would still be in that house. Stop doubting you have a spine. The man told you to your face that after 2 years of marriage (and a 6 year relationship) he was ready to date if you don't come home. Does this sound like a guy you want to waste more years with and become so beaten down you think it is normal?
You should consult an attorney asap to protect your interests.
I hope you're staying strong through all of this and realizing that he isn't going to change. He says he will, but he won't. And deep down, you know that as well. You deserve better than this.
Post by MixedBerryJam on May 26, 2012 14:34:37 GMT -5
I didn't participate in this post yesterday, because everyone else had already eloquently said what I would have said anyway. But now I'm worried, and would love to hear what happened.
Like so many others, I hope you didn't go, because believe me, the problem isn't your hair color, or him sending you a bill for "your share" of the monthly expenses, or his decision to "date" outside the marriage if you don't come home. The issue (and I'm saying this with love and as gently as I can) is that you don't have a partnership and it doesn't sound like he has an issue with how things are.
Do you believe the posters who are saying that you've already taken the hardest step by leaving? They speak the truth.
And I don't know if others have commented on this already, but an abusive man will manipulate joint counselling sessions to fit whatever their agenda is. If your marriage counsellor doesn't see what you have described as abusive, I bet it's because you haven't shared this bullshit with her because he's there. I am loathe to give actual advice, because I have never walked in those shoes, but my gut is telling me you need individual counselling with another counsellor completely unconnected with your husband, and that you shouldn't have another session of marriage counselling until you have had individual therapy and are able to see your husband's manipulations for what they are.
I cannot articulate why, but your post has really struck a chord with me and I hope that you use the responses in this post as a wakeup call. It does not have to be like this. And if you go back on his terms, it Always. Will. Be.
"Wants to be in a relationship"? Sheesh: guy, you're married. Not deciding whether or not you want to date somebody and have something going on with them.
I haven't read the rest of the thread. He sounds like he thinks he's doing you a favor. Rethink him.
You've been in counseling for 6 months, so you've been struggling to make your marriage work for how long? I would sit down (alone) and think about how much effort you need to put in to feel that you made your best effort. How long do you feel you'd need to keep trying to not regret trying "harder?" Then stop and think about the progress you've made since you started working to make things better. If you kept working at the same pace, how long would you have to keep working at it? And do you really want to spend the next 30+ years struggling as much as you are now?
That was what pushed me over the edge. I was 31. God willing, I still have at least 30 more years, and did I want to spend them like this? Or was I ready to cut my losses and move on? Maybe I'd find someone else, but surely I could find a way to be happy on my own. And what was I doing throwing the rest of my life into something that wasn't making me happy and that wasn't rewarding enough to be worth the effort I was putting into it.
In my case we hadn't done couples counseling, so I put that on the table. I knew that I would regret that and question it if I didn't try. But XH refused (I had done solo therapy earlier, and I didn't think it would help at this point). So I knew that I could walk away knowing that I had done what I could, and it was time to start looking ahead to a very different path than the one I kept imagining for myself.
I hope you are okay. I think you need a new counselor, I have to wonder if you have really told your current one some of the stories you've shared with us. If not, tell her. she needs to know how controlling and manipulative he really is. Still, I'd get a new counselor.
Post by kellbell191 on May 29, 2012 9:55:59 GMT -5
I agree with the others who say he shows all the signs of being an abuser. If he hasn't hit you YET then he will. I work with victims of domestic violence and have the checklist, a huge number of things you mention are on there. Do yourself a favor and get hooked up with an individual counselor who specializes in working with victims of domestic violence. You're in the cycle at the point where he has you hating yourself, questioning your judgment, and too weak to make decisions on your own. He gives ultimatums because he knows he has the control, he knows they work. He'll only continue to beat you down and deprive you of your identity even more, that should scare you more than ending the relationship. Losing yourself is worse than losing him. If your counselor really sees anything about this marriage worth saving she is insane, encouraging someone to continue an abusive relationship (emotional abuse counts) is so irresponsible it makes me sick. All of the research shows that people who exhibit these behavioral qualities don't change, despite therapy. There's no reason to believe he will be the exception.