Do you frown upon tithing?

[Deleted]

I don't frown upon the practice or idea but I frown upon any church that beats down their people about it. It's a very personal decision.

[Deleted]

I agree with the second paragraph, too. I'm not very religious, but I do know that tithing is supposed to "hurt," but I feel little empathy for people that are spending 10% pre-tax to tithe but say, have credit card debt or are behind in their mortgage payments. Does not compute.

[dapotato]

no. i don't frown upon anyone else's charitable contributions or lack thereof of any type, tithing included.

[EmilieMadison]

Jan 20, 2013 17:10:01 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Jan 20, 2013 17:02:58 GMT -5 kooshball said:

Is it really the tithing that is frowned upon or the organized religion part?

I'm not sure, but for example, when people post budgets that include tithing, the criticism I've seen is about the tithing specifically.  Personally, I would have a problem with judging someone for being a member of an organized religion, just as I have a problem with judging people who are agnostic or atheist.

Shoegal, I actually never heard of tithing being something that was supposed to "hurt" until I read that on MM. I need more reference on this, because it doesn't make sense or fit into what I've been told about tithing.  If it was meant to hurt, I would think it would be a larger amount than 10%.

The only time I've ever seen anyone given a hard time about their tithing in a budget is when they're continuing to give 10% of their income to the church, but aren't putting anything into retirement, are thousands of dollars in debt, are struggling to make ends meet month-to-month. 

I think it's fine for people to tithe when they can afford it. I simply dont believe that people should jeopardize their financial lives for the church, and I would question the integrity of any church that would encourage them to do so. 

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2013 16:59:51 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

I support tithing (or any other charitable giving) for those who can afford it. I also tend to have more empathy for those who cannot afford it but feel compelled to tithe, than, for example, those who overspend in other areas.

Agree 100% with you.

[Deleted]

Generally, no.

I only have a problem with it when I see a budget of someone who clearly can't afford to be giving away that much money and refuses to consider reducing the amount.

[chessie]

Obviously if you cannot afford it, its frowned on-but some churches obviously could care less.

As a kid, my family started tithing less for this reason and we got total shit from the church even though my dad got a pay cut at his job. We were told to find ways to continue giving at least 10% or find a new church. After that I completely separated myself from the Catholic church.

[treedimensional]

How would I know whether a tither was tithing within their means? Unless I knew that, I couldn't judge them for doing it....

[mbcdefg]

I feel bad for people who feel pressured/required to tithe, while going through tough financial times themselves.

Shouldn't the tithing be benefiting church goers like them who need help? What is the money from tithing used for, exactly?

[Roc A Bee]

I have a problem with it when they aren't saving for their own futures or are in major debt. I super side eye when poster will hit cut it no matter what.

[bluelikejazz]

As someone who was "flamed" for tithing 10% just this week, I obviously don't frown upon it.

I do think that tithing should be a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, your sacrifice was supposed to be your best, fattest lamb. Not the scrawny one that was about to die. It's meant to put your trust in God that he will provide. If you don't believe in God, then obviously you think it's silly/stupid/poor money management to give "beyond your means" to the Church. And I don't think that God is asking us to not have food, but He is asking us to give Him the first fruits of our labor, and to feed/provide for our family second.

FWIW, I don't feel any pressure from my church to give any amount.  This is entirely between my family and God.

[sillygoosegirl]

I will freely admit that I'm kind of anti-organized religion and have concerns about churches that make that kind of demand, but I do admire the resolve and generosity of those who choose to do it, especially those who choose to do it even though they can hardly afford it. Whether the tithe is on gross or take home pay, if reducing your income by 10% breaks your budget, you have a spending problem more than an income problem, and without a serious change of behavior, getting rid of the tithe is a short term fix to a long term problem.

My objection to tithing with credit card debt it that I think it's ridiculous to be giving the credit card company 15% interest when you could instead put the tithe cash flow toward snowballing the credit card debt, and then be able to afford to give more to your church when the debt is paid off. Shoot, keep track of what you should have tithed during the snowball and treat it as debt to the church and pay it off with a generous interest rate at the end of the snowball process. That way, as much as possible, the money you are paying in interest is ultimately going to a good cause, instead of making the credit card company rich. Certainly this would require resolve, but I think the people who keep tithing under adverse financial circumstances have the necessary resolve.

[h]

I frown on people tithing when they clearly can't afford it, and I frown on a church that would make such a demand.

Beyond that, it's fine by me.

[heygrey]

I wouldn't say its SUPPOSED to hurt, but seeing that its supposed to come from your "first fruits" (including it in your budget first, not as an afterthought) it may hurt because there isn't money for as much fun and frivolous.

As (a) pastor(s), we've been entirely dependent on the tithes and generosity in our churches. I support tithing, but I also support responsibility with the money leftover too. Tithe, save, pay debts, live on the rest.

Obviously, if someone doesn't have enough money to eat and keep a roof over their heads they shouldn't tithe and should be looking to their church for support at that point.

[linus]

Jan 20, 2013 17:43:28 GMT -5 heygrey said:

I wouldn't say its SUPPOSED to hurt, but seeing that its supposed to come from your "first fruits" (including it in your budget first, not as an afterthought) it may hurt because there isn't money for as much fun and frivolous.

As (a) pastor(s), we've been entirely dependent on the tithes and generosity in our churches. I support tithing, but I also support responsibility with the money leftover too. Tithe, save, pay debts, live on the rest.

Obviously, if someone doesn't have enough money to eat and keep a roof over their heads they shouldn't tithe and should be looking to their church for support at that point.

This (minus the pastor part)

[heygrey]

Jan 20, 2013 17:30:14 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I feel bad for people who feel pressured/required to tithe, while going through tough financial times themselves.

Shouldn't the tithing be benefiting church goers like them who need help? What is the money from tithing used for, exactly?

At our church its used for salaries, building utilities and upkeep, supporting church ministries (children's, youth, etc), outreach (doing stuff in our community like cleaning up a park or helping an elderly couple winterized their house or something), foreign missions (we have three places we send a lot of money to), and benevolence (paying rent or utilities or whatever for people who need help). The pastors are also given small budgets for continuing ed/development, but its not much.

[bluelikejazz]

Jan 20, 2013 17:46:56 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Jan 20, 2013 17:34:11 GMT -5 bluelikejazz said:

As someone who was "flamed" for tithing 10% just this week, I obviously don't frown upon it.

I do think that tithing should be a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, your sacrifice was supposed to be your best, fattest lamb. Not the scrawny one that was about to die. It's meant to put your trust in God that he will provide. If you don't believe in God, then obviously you think it's silly/stupid/poor money management to give "beyond your means" to the Church. And I don't think that God is asking us to not have food, but He is asking us to give Him the first fruits of our labor, and to feed/provide for our family second.

FWIW, I don't feel any pressure from my church to give any amount.  This is entirely between my family and God.

I'm sorry, I don't recall your flaming, was it mentioned in that thread that tithing was supposed to hurt?  You obviously feel that 10% is a sufficient sacrifice though, correct?  I do not agree about feeding/providing for your family second, but that's jmo.

mbcdefg, it varies by church or parish, of course, but usually, tithes are used to pay the minister, expenses to run the church, for the costs of programs the church offers and yes, to help members in need.

I posted our budget earlier this week.  I said that the tithe was non-negotiable.  Thus, flaming.  I knew it would be, and that's ok. 

For my family, 10% is a sacrifice.  Other families may feel a different % is a sacrifice.

[minniebee]

I don't frown on tithing, but I have a hard time understanding people who insist on tithing when they clearly can't afford it. I mean, if it's a difference between paying for necessities like groceries and utilities or tithing, I believe God would want a person to pay for necessities first. There are ways to contribute to the church other than financial gifts.

I am a Christian and attend church regularly, but I would never be a part of a church that forced tithing on its members. Like ... asking people to leave the church if they can't donate 10% of gross income. I believe church giving is between an individual and God. While the church isn't out of line in guiding and educating its members on how to give of their time, talents and money, I think it's going too far to *require* a certain level of financial giving. It just doesn't make sense to me. It's not a country club where there are membership dues. It's a church. Isn't the church supposed to be more accepting than that?

[Deleted]

I can't get it up about how other people choose to spend their money. I think it is foolish to tithe when you can't comfortably afford it, but you're perfectly entitled to do so if it is that important to you. In most cases you can cut back somewhere else. It's about priorities.

I am not a fan of organized religion in general and I'm with Vicmo on the "God says I have to" element, but again, it's your own personal business what you do.

[alexis]

I do believe that tithing and specifically paying 10% of my income is a commandment from God. I actually do believe that remains true even when we struggle financially. For me it is showing faith and trust in God even when it is hard. No church should refuse someone because they do not pay tithing.

[thelongroad]

I don't agree with organized religion, but I have no problem with tithing if people can afford it. I struggle with sympathy for people, like the poster last week sometime, that needed some budget work, but refused to negotiate on the tithing.

I must admit that scenarios like I just mentioned dramatically add to my negative perspective of organized religion.

[peachdragon]

Meh. I'm a born again atheist, and my parents were avid church goers. My father told me after I had grown that tithing (literally a tenth of) his income hurt sometimes, but it always worked out to be enough, and he believed that tithing actually helped them financially (because God was pleased).

[ijack]

Like others I don't have an issue if they can afford it. I think it's foolish to choose to tithe above other things (savings, retirement, paying off debt), but it's not my life.
I think it gets mentioned here because people post their budget and then claim that tithing isn't open to negotiation. IMO sometimes that's the only wiggle room and it seems like it would make more sense to give to the church in other ways.

[UMaineTeach]

I frown on forced tithing. I don't think that it should be a requirement (written or implied) to join or attend a church. I don't care if an individual chooses to give to her church.

[awkwardpenguin]

Jan 20, 2013 17:34:11 GMT -5 bluelikejazz said:

FWIW, I don't feel any pressure from my church to give any amount.  This is entirely between my family and God.

This.  I think a lot of the tithing criticisms I see on here assume that the tithe comes from people blindly following what the church say they MUST do.  But to me, tithing is a very personal decision between you and God, and I think that's true of many people who post budgets with tithes, even those who say the tithe is non-negotiable.

My charitable giving is fairly non-negotiable, even if it's not the "optimal" way for me to be spending that money.  For many people, the decision to take control of their finances and debt is a spiritual decision, and giving is a part of that.  I give because it reminds me that no matter how bad my finances are (because of my own stupid decisions), there are so many people who still need help that I am able to give.

I also see the assumption here frequently that the tithe is going to church operational expenses.  In my experience that is not true, but I know that is true in some churches.  At my mom's church, half of "offering" goes to the church general fund (which is operational expenses but also includes the outreach budget and some charitable giving), and half is given directly to charitable causes.  The church's operational budget itself also includes quite a bit of use of church facilities for charitable purposes.  My mom's church does all funerals for free, including a luncheon afterwards.  When my mom's town was hit by a tornado, the church was the "command center" for relief efforts.  The church also houses the food bank for our town for free, and is used by Boy Scout and Girl Scout troops at no charge.  Also, her church does not have mandatory tithing, and has no problem with part of your giving going to the church and part going to a charity you believe in, but I realize this isn't the norm.

[Deleted]

I only judge people who continue to tithe when they cannot afford it. I'm also of the opinion that while God expects sacrifice, that that sacrifice/tithe can come in other forms - volunteering, etc.

[smiley]

I don't have a problem with families choosing to tithe if they can afford it. 10% would hurt our budget right now because we are in debt repayment mode. We are currently giving <1% because that is what we are comfortable giving right now. I know it's not much but every little bit to the church can help in some way. There are a lot of members who attend because of their ministries and the help the church will give them (food pantry /gifts for children at Christmas time etc).

[lys]

No , I do not frown on tithing. I DO frown on those who do not give anything to charity all the while indulging themselves (great deal of eating out, clothes, expensive shoes, purses, vacations etc). It is all about me, me, me and little thought of giving some of their resourses to help others. Nothing wrong with material things, but where the emphasis is placed, makes a difference on a number of levels.

Tithing is giving off the top, the "first fruits of our labors" and living on what is left.
Tithing is not a substitute for giving of time, or talents, as many do --- thinking "I paid my tithes, so I don't need to anything else" -

In addition to operating our own church, we help support the rebuilding a church in Africa that was destroyed in civil war, local food pantry, and participate in a rotating homeless shelter (hosted in church buildings- each taking one week at a time), free clothing "closet", and donations to emergency relief and a long list of assistance to people who come into the office asking for help. The church itself is run on a shoestring budget so that we can do the outreach we feel we are called to do.

How you think about money, how you think about helping others are linked in Biblical teachings.

[linus]

Jan 20, 2013 19:20:42 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

This.  I think a lot of the tithing criticisms I see on here assume that the tithe comes from people blindly following what the church say they MUST do.  But to me, tithing is a very personal decision between you and God, and I think that's true of many people who post budgets with tithes, even those who say the tithe is non-negotiable.

I completely agree with this.  I would say our tithe is non-negotiable, but we have never regularly attended a church that required any giving.  We once visited a megachurch that passed a CC scanner with its offering plate...we did not go back!

[mellymel]

I only judge when people do it but truly can't afford it. In our church, there are 3 different ways to give:

Time
Treasure
Talent

If you don't have the "treasure" you should be giving available time or talent instead.